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Message boards : General discussion : Member Poll: Is Gridcoin good or bad?

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Profile Michael GoetzProject donor
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The "Shut up already!" badge:  This loud mouth has mansplained on the forums over 10 thousand times!  Sheesh!!!Discovered the World's First GFN-19 prime!!!Discovered 1 mega primeFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de Primes321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,816,300)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,005,249)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,009,577)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,145,754)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,821,594)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,750,428)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (34,221,148)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,293,415)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,014,138)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,737,347)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,195,123)321 Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,060,749)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,170,256)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,059,304)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,110,788)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,114,260)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (65,974,170)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,404,447)
Message 121583 - Posted: 30 Oct 2018 | 1:10:32 UTC
Last modified: 30 Oct 2018 | 12:09:12 UTC

What does everyone think of Gridcoin? Is it good or bad for PrimeGrid? Good or bad for you personally? Just another Ponzi scheme? Should we ban Gridcoin forever?

What's your opinion?
____________
Please do not PM me with support questions. Ask on the forums instead. Thank you!

My lucky number is 75898524288+1

Profile Eudy SilvaProject donor
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Credit: 135,700,192
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Found 2 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de Primes321 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,012,503)Cullen LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,011,118)ESP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,022,307)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,004,746)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,790,304)PSP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,023,238)SoB LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,113,239)SR5 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,784,784)SGS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,162,202)TRP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,309,179)Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,001,901)321 Sieve Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,036,805)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,005,331)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (63,539,979)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,224,371)GFN Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (25,599,556)PSA Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,059,222)
Message 121588 - Posted: 30 Oct 2018 | 2:02:45 UTC - in response to Message 121583.

I'm fairly new here, so I might have a limited perception of all that might be envolved in this issue.
I understand that Gridcoin participants aim credit and, as such, they mainly crunch PPS and GCW sieve, is that right ?
This does not help finding large primes neither an AP27.
OTOH, I'm not aware of any harm in their participation in PG.
If bad things are happening, then yes, a cleaning should be done.

Again, that's my limited point of view.

____________
"Accidit in puncto, quod non contingit in anno."
Something that does not occur in a year may, perchance, happen in a moment.

Profile vaughanProject donor
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Discovered 1 mega primeFound 12 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 6 primes in the 2019 Tour de Primes321 LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (26,174,842)Cullen LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (18,802,953)ESP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (25,179,029)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,492,993)PPS LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (84,025,664)PSP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (34,495,061)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (38,473,734)SR5 LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,241,642)SGS LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (34,482,834)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (76,266)TRP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (21,385,824)Woodall LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (13,034,900)321 Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (64,148,313)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (35,459,921)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (103,015,099)PPS Sieve Double Ruby: Earned 2,000,000,000 credits (2,881,424,116)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,101,054)TRP Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (25,930,215)AP 26/27 Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (162,367,031)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (240,167,582)PSA Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (80,989,897)
Message 121591 - Posted: 30 Oct 2018 | 4:36:08 UTC

Personally, I detest the "Borg". They absolutely swamp projects where they totally obliterate any home pharmers such as myself.

Look at their tallies in the top 100 of some projects: srbase 39/100, NFS@home 31/100 and VGTU@home 45/100.

Makes me reconsider the whole DC thing and just give up. A solo cruncher cannot keep up against them; they're anti-competitive.

Nethlek
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Credit: 23,648,949
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PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (23,559,919)GFN Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (89,030)
Message 121594 - Posted: 30 Oct 2018 | 7:06:07 UTC
Last modified: 30 Oct 2018 | 7:38:39 UTC

Personally, I only know about BOINC because of Gridcoin. I didn't know there was a way to contribute to science with my computer before I heard about them. Even if I had, I probably wouldn't have done it to a noteworthy degree without them, just for the electricity cost alone (.25€/kWh here). It's far from profitable, but it allows me to daydream about maybe being rich one day while contributing to science. Even if it ends up a dud, I doubt I'll regret having taken a chance on the concept; there's worse things to waste money on than contributing to science.

"This does not help finding large primes neither an AP27."

That's not true, PPS Sieve lays the foundation for PPSE to find proth primes.

"A solo cruncher cannot keep up against them; they're anti-competitive"

Honestly I dont understand the hostility. Why are your personal stats more important to you than a general increase in contributions towards science?

denravonska
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PPS Sieve Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (105,660,624)AP 26/27 Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (52,559)GFN Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,576,447)
Message 121595 - Posted: 30 Oct 2018 | 7:11:00 UTC - in response to Message 121591.
Last modified: 30 Oct 2018 | 7:23:56 UTC

What does everyone think of Gridcoin? Is it good or bad for PrimeGrid? Good or bad for you personally? Just another Ponzi scheme? Should we band Gridcoin forever?

Gridcoin cannot be a Ponzi scheme as the rewards are distributed directly to the project participants in the team proportionally to their RAC. There is no referral structure, nor would we ever want one.

Personally, I detest the "Borg". They absolutely swamp projects where they totally obliterate any home pharmers such as myself.

Look at their tallies in the top 100 of some projects: srbase 39/100, NFS@home 31/100 and VGTU@home 45/100.

Makes me reconsider the whole DC thing and just give up. A solo cruncher cannot keep up against them; they're anti-competitive.

Unless there is a WU shortage I don't see what the problem is for the end user. The whole point of the BOINC setup is to get a lot of people to do a lot of work, and the Gridcoin team members are a part of that. It is very rare to find an open DC project which would prefer fewer resources.

An individual can never compete with an entire team. If you really want to eliminate RAC competition from teams, have a look at SETI.USA which annihilates any competitor. Granted, they are only ranked 4 in Primegrid but no single user and very, very few teams can compete with them regardless of the project.

We at Gridcoin have always assumed that the BOINC projects, Primegrid included, had concrete work they wanted to be done or else it would never have been included. If that is not the case and the users are just burning electricity for no project benefit it might be more beneficial for both the users and the project to remove it from the Gridcoin whitelist. We have a lot of members who do like the project and have donated to it (https://gridcoinstats.eu/address/S6RimEgrEar84vQpsmVAVFbGkxfJ4i2sec), and they would be sad to see it go.

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Found 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de Primes321 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,310,491)Cullen LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,065,659)ESP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,658,417)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,216,209)PPS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,127,962)PSP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,290,845)SoB LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,603,584)SR5 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,762,093)SGS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,108,426)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,594,095)Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,323,182)321 Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,002,108)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,967,439)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,137,451)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (232,224,508)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (627,444)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,956,401)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (15,856,233)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (64,937,531)PSA Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (86,964,270)
Message 121596 - Posted: 30 Oct 2018 | 8:28:41 UTC

my opinion: like any other team, they are welcome if they play after the rules.

for this decision it is on you (the admins).
if there are many more bad results as of other teams, if there are never ending DDOS-like attacks to the infrastructure of the project, if there are cheating clients, if there are ...
thats only a few arguments which you may take into your consideration
at the end it is your (the admins) decision and not our, because of we dont know all details.
____________
Sysadm@Nbg
my current lucky number: 3651*2^1521717+1
PSA-PRPNet-Stats-URL: http://u-g-f.de/PRPNet/

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Credit: 618,548,618
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321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,016,543)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,127,478)ESP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,007,413)PPS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,096,509)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,154,003)SoB LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,097,391)SR5 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,019,393)SGS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,101,688)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,043,531)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,022,659)PPS Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,020,532)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,022,747)TRP Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,026,996)GFN Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (582,786,266)
Message 121597 - Posted: 30 Oct 2018 | 8:57:29 UTC

As a long time BOINC and PrimeGrid cruncher/supporter, I am very disappointed to see the "ban forever" talk here. There are at least three other digital currencies (besides Gridcoin) rewarding BOINC work now: BBP (rewarding WCG and Rosetta@home), GBYTE (rewarding WCG) and DCC (rewarding numerous BOINC projects, including PrimeGrid). All of them can decide to start rewarding PrimeGrid tasks tomorrow. What shall we do, ban them all? Ban all the new ones that will probably appear also? Surely, there are better options available to PrimeGrid.

Regarding "not very useful" work Gridcoin team is doing, that's a consequence of PrimeGrid policies. PrimeGrid admins have apparently decided that PPS-Sieve tasks should yield the most credits and, not surprisingly, that's what the users are crunching with their GPUs. In my opinion, GFN tasks should be rewarded equally (or nearly so) and users will be happy to pick them up.

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321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (360,928)Cullen LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (98,851)ESP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (139,922)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (35,236)PPS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,486,479)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (184,660)SoB LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (237,390)SR5 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (16,010)TRP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (71,060)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (109,455)PSA Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,614,290)
Message 121598 - Posted: 30 Oct 2018 | 8:57:44 UTC

(Here is a situation where it would be nice if you could see people's teams already in the forum thread "forum_thread.php" (next to where you see the badges etc., here at the left). I know you can see the team by clicking at the user, "show_user.php". Anyway, I myself am in no team.)

I have no opinion on Gridcoin before I know the reason why this question is asked. Are users in Gridcoin more often "problematic" in some sense, compared to other users or teams?

Or is the issue instead that the Gridcoin server(s) retrieve the statistics they need from PrimeGrid, in an unpleasant way, unprofessionally?

More info needed…

/JeppeSN

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Discovered 1 mega primeDiscovered 1 AP26Found 2 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2019 Tour de Primes321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (408,628)Cullen LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (29,920)ESP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (30,791)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (33,221)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,008,633)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,847,255)SoB LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,194,347)SR5 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,783,647)SGS LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (621,613)TRP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (71,189)Woodall LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (524,564)321 Sieve Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,445,427)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (28,919,526)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (241,811,943)TRP Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (39,046)AP 26/27 Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (79,517,724)GFN Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (102,186,167)PSA Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (840,695,185)
Message 121600 - Posted: 30 Oct 2018 | 9:14:33 UTC - in response to Message 121588.
Last modified: 30 Oct 2018 | 9:17:13 UTC

I hardly know the full picture, but what are the downsides, really? Essentially, we're talking about an incentive for more people to join and contribute. Two problems I can think of are WU shortage and the actual monetary value in credits making it more attractive to cheat. However, the first is a non-issue for PrimeGrid and the second, well, GRC is (at least right now) more about getting back a bit of your electricity bill as a bonus for helping science rather than profitable mining; plus, isn't the whole double-check system already a good countermeasure for that, though? I can't imagine it would be particularly profitable to rig things other than on a huge level and that would make it rather easy to detect anyway. Again, I don't know all the details in play here, especially the technical side of GRC, but personally I think the benefits outweigh the risks.

Eudy Silva wrote:
I'm fairly new here, so I might have a limited perception of all that might be envolved in this issue.
I understand that Gridcoin participants aim credit and, as such, they mainly crunch PPS and GCW sieve, is that right ?
This does not help finding large primes neither an AP27.

People who want to hunt for primes are still going to do just that. And sieving is important as well. We wouldn't be running these other subprojects if they were a waste of computing and just credit generators. (Or at least I sure hope so... :P)

vaughan wrote:
Personally, I detest the "Borg". They absolutely swamp projects where they totally obliterate any home pharmers such as myself.

Look at their tallies in the top 100 of some projects: srbase 39/100, NFS@home 31/100 and VGTU@home 45/100.

Makes me reconsider the whole DC thing and just give up. A solo cruncher cannot keep up against them; they're anti-competitive.

I don't understand this mentality. The entire point of DC is to combine as many small pieces of computing as possible into a gigantic whole. Every little (or big) bit helps. But somehow it's no longer worth it if you can't be high up in the stats anymore?

Yes, I realise there is a certain competitive aspect to BOINC, and the whole network benefits from that, but I just don't see why the fact that there's pretty much always going to be someone with faster equipment and/or more credit suddenly makes you give up. Everybody has their own reasons for participating, but I mean, ultimately it's about helping science, not being first.
____________
Long live the sievers.

Kirill Zokov
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ESP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (17,584)PPS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,318,960)SoB LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (148,470)SR5 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (412,767)SGS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (485,388)TRP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (15,732)PPS Sieve Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (40,452)GFN Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,006,701)
Message 121601 - Posted: 30 Oct 2018 | 9:24:31 UTC

What is the problem with gridcoin exactly?

[SG]Felix
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Credit: 40,849,860
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321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (325,452)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (195,417)ESP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (232,161)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (435,916)PPS LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (503,163)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (180,838)SoB LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,002,101)SR5 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (263,473)SGS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (190,547)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (434,556)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (432,894)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,290,361)PPS Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,212,753)TRP Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (48,057)AP 26/27 Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (715,611)GFN Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,660,339)PSA Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (23,723,781)
Message 121602 - Posted: 30 Oct 2018 | 9:30:15 UTC

i think primegrid would lose a big ammount of computation power, but since Gridcoin is mainly doing sieving, i think the loss of this computation power isn't that bad. And since they produce a big ammount of traffic to get the needed files, i think it would be better to ban them.

And because they mostly work as pools, they destroy competition between users.

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Credit: 618,548,618
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321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,016,543)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,127,478)ESP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,007,413)PPS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,096,509)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,154,003)SoB LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,097,391)SR5 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,019,393)SGS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,101,688)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,043,531)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,022,659)PPS Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,020,532)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,022,747)TRP Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,026,996)GFN Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (582,786,266)
Message 121603 - Posted: 30 Oct 2018 | 9:44:32 UTC - in response to Message 121602.

i think primegrid would lose a big ammount of computation power, but since Gridcoin is mainly doing sieving, i think the loss of this computation power isn't that bad. And since they produce a big ammount of traffic to get the needed files, i think it would be better to ban them.

So, according to you, sieving is not very useful and we can take big losses there? But, on the other side, it's actually rewarded with most credits. So, instead of adjusting the credits, let's ban 35% of PrimeGrid's computing power? Doesn't make much sense to me.

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Credit: 1,317,168,827
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Discovered 1 mega primeDiscovered 1 AP26Found 2 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2019 Tour de Primes321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (408,628)Cullen LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (29,920)ESP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (30,791)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (33,221)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,008,633)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,847,255)SoB LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,194,347)SR5 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,783,647)SGS LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (621,613)TRP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (71,189)Woodall LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (524,564)321 Sieve Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,445,427)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (28,919,526)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (241,811,943)TRP Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (39,046)AP 26/27 Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (79,517,724)GFN Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (102,186,167)PSA Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (840,695,185)
Message 121604 - Posted: 30 Oct 2018 | 9:48:58 UTC

Well, isn't sieve credit just a consequence of the app being more efficient/doing more work? Or is it tweaked to make it more attractive compared to the shinier LLR and GFN work? Bit of both?
____________
Long live the sievers.

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Credit: 543,201,357
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Discovered 1 mega prime2012 Tour de Primes highest prime scoreFound 2 primes in the 2018 Tour de Primes321 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (14,116,665)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,622,415)ESP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,461,313)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,521,709)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,419,603)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,387,311)SoB LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,923,258)SR5 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,285,621)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,349,916)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,527,307)Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,295,630)321 Sieve Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,664,568)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,449,019)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,388,253)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (337,847,415)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,072,601)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,441,257)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (21,225,750)GFN Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (44,249,129)PSA Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (79,952,619)
Message 121605 - Posted: 30 Oct 2018 | 9:52:05 UTC
Last modified: 30 Oct 2018 | 9:52:23 UTC

Primegrid is currently "greylisted" on The GridCoin whitelist with the note "Stats unavailable, Project Admin does not want Gridcoin to crunch the project".
I've always thought that more compute power would be a good thing for the Project. However, if their stats retrieval puts a strain on Primegrid's server (or something of the sort), I accept the ban. If the only issue is the "competition", I don't see any benefit on the ban.
Look at the current challenge stats: Gridcoin team is out of the top 10 and the first individual is not (or appears not to be) a pool. We could consider removing the PPS sieve challenge from the challenge series if the competitiveness is really an issue.

On the other hand, we could look at it on a principle base: volunteer computing vs paid computing. This would be an issue if PrimeGrid (or any other Boinc project) would pay their participants. That's not the case.

TL/DR: Unless there are serious technical issues stemming from Gridcoin participation, it should be allowed to participate.

Disclaimer: I have no connection to Gridcoin (actually, I had never heard of it before seeing this thread)
____________
676754^262144+1 is prime

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Found 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de Primes321 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (506,942)Cullen LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (500,523)ESP LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (655,642)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (539,100)PPS LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (688,232)PSP LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (561,629)SoB LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,659,676)SR5 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (505,810)SGS LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (506,024)TRP LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (963,625)Woodall LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (506,044)321 Sieve Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (511,694)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (549,916)PPS Sieve Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (701,168)AP 26/27 Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (525,590)GFN Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (9,675,760)PSA Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (525,639)
Message 121606 - Posted: 30 Oct 2018 | 9:55:30 UTC
Last modified: 30 Oct 2018 | 10:08:11 UTC

GRC is the better side of the horrid mess that is cryptocurrency.

I don't see a reason to "ban" them forever. They just add a layer of money on top of contributing processor power to DC. Looks like I'll be the first to mention the word "bitcoin" in this thread, but oh well. One of the worst things about the ugly thing is how it's all about doing wasteful computations, the wasteful power drain that contributes more to climate change than some contries as a whole. Wouldn't you want, if the power is already drained, have it be not-wasteful and instead contribute to the good of the world? Have that power running DC projects? That's what GRC is about.

P.S. Still haven't run it personally and unlikely to in the nearest future.

P.P.S. Also don't understand the whole "competitiveness" argument. Sure, I've talked to one sysadmin once who thought about BOINC mostly as means to measure how cool the machine that he built is compared to the rest of the world, but, common, a user can have multiple computers (even whole campuses) under their credentials, comparing users like this never made sense.

P.P.P.S. When I first heard about bitcoin on a hearsay, I didn't know what exactly they do as a proof of work and I just assumed they're searching some big primes stuff. Imagine my disappointment later.

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Credit: 40,849,860
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321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (325,452)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (195,417)ESP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (232,161)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (435,916)PPS LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (503,163)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (180,838)SoB LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,002,101)SR5 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (263,473)SGS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (190,547)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (434,556)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (432,894)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,290,361)PPS Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,212,753)TRP Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (48,057)AP 26/27 Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (715,611)GFN Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,660,339)PSA Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (23,723,781)
Message 121607 - Posted: 30 Oct 2018 | 10:03:17 UTC - in response to Message 121603.


So, according to you, sieving is not very useful and we can take big losses there? But, on the other side, it's actually rewarded with most credits. So, instead of adjusting the credits, let's ban 35% of PrimeGrid's computing power? Doesn't make much sense to me.


Sieving is useful, thats no question, but if i recall correctly, the sieving is way ahead to the search

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PPS Sieve Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (105,660,624)AP 26/27 Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (52,559)GFN Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,576,447)
Message 121608 - Posted: 30 Oct 2018 | 10:04:21 UTC - in response to Message 121602.

Worth noting that Gridcoin only downloads the stat files around once per day. The download hammering was an issue before Primegrid added the stat credentials, something which is only used on one stat scraper now.

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Discovered 1 mega primeFound 12 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 6 primes in the 2019 Tour de Primes321 LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (26,174,842)Cullen LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (18,802,953)ESP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (25,179,029)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,492,993)PPS LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (84,025,664)PSP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (34,495,061)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (38,473,734)SR5 LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,241,642)SGS LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (34,482,834)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (76,266)TRP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (21,385,824)Woodall LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (13,034,900)321 Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (64,148,313)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (35,459,921)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (103,015,099)PPS Sieve Double Ruby: Earned 2,000,000,000 credits (2,881,424,116)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,101,054)TRP Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (25,930,215)AP 26/27 Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (162,367,031)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (240,167,582)PSA Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (80,989,897)
Message 121610 - Posted: 30 Oct 2018 | 10:39:54 UTC - in response to Message 121600.

vaughan wrote:
Personally, I detest the "Borg". They absolutely swamp projects where they totally obliterate any home pharmers such as myself.

Look at their tallies in the top 100 of some projects: srbase 39/100, NFS@home 31/100 and VGTU@home 45/100.

Makes me reconsider the whole DC thing and just give up. A solo cruncher cannot keep up against them; they're anti-competitive.

I don't understand this mentality. The entire point of DC is to combine as many small pieces of computing as possible into a gigantic whole. Every little (or big) bit helps. But somehow it's no longer worth it if you can't be high up in the stats anymore?

Yes, I realise there is a certain competitive aspect to BOINC, and the whole network benefits from that, but I just don't see why the fact that there's pretty much always going to be someone with faster equipment and/or more credit suddenly makes you give up. Everybody has their own reasons for participating, but I mean, ultimately it's about helping science, not being first.[/quote]

My credits in Primegrid and many other projects prove the fallacy of your argument. Doh Sherlock, of course I know BOINC is competitive! One of my points was that Gridcoin makes a mockery of some projects such as the ones I listed as they just hog work units. eg. Far too often srbase runs out of work for days at a time and even when we plead with the Admin, rebirther, it takes time for work to become available. However, just when the Primegrid Halloween challenge is running rebirther loaded heaps of tasks. At least that scenario doesn't happen at Primegrid as there is lots of work all the time here.

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Credit: 1,317,168,827
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Discovered 1 mega primeDiscovered 1 AP26Found 2 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2019 Tour de Primes321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (408,628)Cullen LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (29,920)ESP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (30,791)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (33,221)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,008,633)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,847,255)SoB LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,194,347)SR5 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,783,647)SGS LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (621,613)TRP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (71,189)Woodall LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (524,564)321 Sieve Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,445,427)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (28,919,526)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (241,811,943)TRP Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (39,046)AP 26/27 Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (79,517,724)GFN Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (102,186,167)PSA Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (840,695,185)
Message 121611 - Posted: 30 Oct 2018 | 10:52:47 UTC
Last modified: 30 Oct 2018 | 10:55:16 UTC

I'm not sure I understand your posts, then. Your argument is that you're frustrated because you can't keep up with them, although... you can keep up? You say that your credit stats prove that you're doing it for the science, but yet you are "reconsider[ing] the whole DC thing and just give up" because...? Please correct me, if I'm wrong.

About WUs running out, well as I (and you) said, PrimeGrid pretty much has an unlimited supply of those. Although for other projects I'm not sure I'd call too little work being available a bad thing; Do we want to get things done or do we want credits? Unless there's a disproportionate amount of invalid WUs for GRC users or something?
____________
Long live the sievers.

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Credit: 462,037,833
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321 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,071,031)Cullen LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,165,737)ESP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,021,868)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,046,510)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,090,575)PSP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,291,823)SoB LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,043,824)SR5 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,000,984)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,095,282)TRP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,033,808)Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,088,488)321 Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,006,315)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (944,431)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,813,253)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (337,336,051)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,446,797)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (33,132,385)GFN Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (24,957,668)PSA Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,457,430)
Message 121614 - Posted: 30 Oct 2018 | 11:30:38 UTC

I'm for GridCoin but do NOT crunch for them!! They are no different than anyone who works for a company that then let's them use their work computers for crunching under their account. Now do I think the stats sites should have a limit on the total number for 'individual users' and above that limit make them a Team instead, yes I do, but that's not the question here. IMHO GridCoin is just like you or I except they get paid, very little right now, for their contribution to their Team. The join a Team and then decide which projects to crunch for, now do they choose the projects that pay the most credits, yes they do as long as those projects are on their 'White List' of projects. The 'White List' means you will get paid for your crunching, a project not on the 'White List' is not off limits it just means you won't get paid for your crunching there.

I now have about 17 pc's here in my house crunching, and my electric bill shows it, but I can't compete on a user basis with GridCoin since they are listed as a 'user' by the stats sites, and that's my ONLY beef with Gridcoin and I'm not sure they have anything to do with that. Does Gridcoin have cheaters, sure but we've had individuals get caught cheating who weren't on a Team. When Collatz had their problems it was brought to the Admin BY Gridcoin itself and during the process the users account was suspended, after the research proved cheating was going on Gridcoin handled it internally and Collatz fixed the problems that enabled the cheating. But ANYONE could have done the cheating and if they weren't on a Team that said noticed it it could still be going on.

IMHO keep Gridcoin just label them as a Team and not a user for the stats.

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Discovered 1 mega primeDiscovered 1 AP26Found 2 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2019 Tour de Primes321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (408,628)Cullen LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (29,920)ESP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (30,791)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (33,221)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,008,633)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,847,255)SoB LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,194,347)SR5 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,783,647)SGS LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (621,613)TRP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (71,189)Woodall LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (524,564)321 Sieve Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,445,427)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (28,919,526)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (241,811,943)TRP Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (39,046)AP 26/27 Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (79,517,724)GFN Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (102,186,167)PSA Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (840,695,185)
Message 121615 - Posted: 30 Oct 2018 | 11:42:53 UTC - in response to Message 121614.
Last modified: 30 Oct 2018 | 11:47:42 UTC

mikey wrote:
I now have about 17 pc's here in my house crunching, and my electric bill shows it, but I can't compete on a user basis with GridCoin since they are listed as a 'user' by the stats sites, and that's my ONLY beef with Gridcoin and I'm not sure they have anything to do with that.

[..]

IMHO keep Gridcoin just label them as a Team and not a user for the stats.

I believe you're referring to the pool accounts. I don't know about the percentages, but there are also a lot of people (the majority?) crunching GRC solo (yours truly included). Or just crunching "normally" with GRC as an added benefit, if you want to look at it that way (I do). Pools are one way to get a starter-pack of coins before you can start staking on your own within a reasonable amount of time.

There actually is a Gridcoin team for every whitelisted project and if you want to earn coins, you have to join. For me at least that's not an issue, I never cared about teams.
____________
Long live the sievers.

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Found 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de Primes321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,094,006)Cullen LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,080,659)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,523,551)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,139,193)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,239,831)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,436,180)SoB LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,561,152)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,005,004)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,055,609)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,032,589)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,016,420)321 Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,091,320)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,018,833)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (68,849,304)TRP Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (110,630)AP 26/27 Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (62,961,639)GFN Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (109,169,352)PSA Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (517,522,646)
Message 121616 - Posted: 30 Oct 2018 | 12:13:34 UTC - in response to Message 121614.

I'm for GridCoin but do NOT crunch for them!! They are no different than anyone who works for a company that then let's them use their work computers for crunching under their account. Now do I think the stats sites should have a limit on the total number for 'individual users' and above that limit make them a Team instead, yes I do, but that's not the question here. IMHO GridCoin is just like you or I except they get paid, very little right now, for their contribution to their Team. The join a Team and then decide which projects to crunch for, now do they choose the projects that pay the most credits, yes they do as long as those projects are on their 'White List' of projects. The 'White List' means you will get paid for your crunching, a project not on the 'White List' is not off limits it just means you won't get paid for your crunching there.

I now have about 17 pc's here in my house crunching, and my electric bill shows it, but I can't compete on a user basis with GridCoin since they are listed as a 'user' by the stats sites, and that's my ONLY beef with Gridcoin and I'm not sure they have anything to do with that. Does Gridcoin have cheaters, sure but we've had individuals get caught cheating who weren't on a Team. When Collatz had their problems it was brought to the Admin BY Gridcoin itself and during the process the users account was suspended, after the research proved cheating was going on Gridcoin handled it internally and Collatz fixed the problems that enabled the cheating. But ANYONE could have done the cheating and if they weren't on a Team that said noticed it it could still be going on.

IMHO keep Gridcoin just label them as a Team and not a user for the stats.



I was just about to ask "WTH is GridCoin?" when i read your post mikey. So you get some sort of digital currency for crunching various projects as this GridCoin see's fit.

I don't see why it's a bad thing. Gives people an incentive to crunch for science projects. How the "coins" are rewarded I don't understand where the value or whatever comes from, but that's my thoughts on most of the digital currencies. It's a perceived value.

f I could crunch, earn some coins, then hit up Newegg for better hardware as a result of my crunching, I think I would do it.

It does seem to limit what gets crunched as higher credit is all that matters, but that seems to be the only downside to it...


I'm with mikey with multiple home computers going and my numbers keep growing as does my electric bill. Thank goodness cooler weather is here for free cooling by opening a window :)

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Discovered 1 mega primeFound 2 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2019 Tour de Primes321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,695,011)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,773,730)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,174,327)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,356,142)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (18,162,977)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,887,361)SoB LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,014,268)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,169,992)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,132,465)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,568,836)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,612,313)321 Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (58,508,409)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (127,922,665)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (30,984,158)PPS Sieve Double Ruby: Earned 2,000,000,000 credits (2,075,138,170)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,134,964)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,013,696)AP 26/27 Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (137,546,903)GFN Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (152,361,440)PSA Double Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000,000 credits (1,370,700,486)
Message 121618 - Posted: 30 Oct 2018 | 12:57:59 UTC

I don't believe I've seen any answer from Michael as to why his question and this thread were posted. Knowing him, there's some reason he would ask such an open ended question.

Cheers Rick
____________
@AggieThePew

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The "Shut up already!" badge:  This loud mouth has mansplained on the forums over 10 thousand times!  Sheesh!!!Discovered the World's First GFN-19 prime!!!Discovered 1 mega primeFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de Primes321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,816,300)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,005,249)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,009,577)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,145,754)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,821,594)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,750,428)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (34,221,148)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,293,415)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,014,138)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,737,347)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,195,123)321 Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,060,749)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,170,256)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,059,304)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,110,788)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,114,260)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (65,974,170)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,404,447)
Message 121621 - Posted: 30 Oct 2018 | 13:50:05 UTC - in response to Message 121618.

I don't believe I've seen any answer from Michael as to why his question and this thread were posted. Knowing him, there's some reason he would ask such an open ended question.

Cheers Rick


I'm not happy with the demands/requests the people at Gridcoin are making, and am considering whether we should ban them. (There's no need to get into the details of that their requests for the purpose of this discussion. They're technical in nature.)

No decision has been made, but I wanted to see whether you guys and gals had a strong opinion one way or the other and use that in my decision making process.

The problem with Gridcoin originated with the ridiculous method they used to pull stats from our server; it was a very effective DDOS attack. That's why we restricted access to the statistics. They're still permitted to get the stats, and they're still welcome here (for now, anyway.)

Essentially, if there's an overwhelming opinion amongst the users that you like Gridcoin, I'd be inclined to keep them around even if the admins didn't want to. Likewise, if you'all mostly wanted them gone, I'd probably get rid of them, even if the admins wanted to keep them.

For PrimeGrid itself, I see them mostly as a negative. They cause problems, and there's no evidence that they bring more traffic to PrimeGrid. Yes, a lot of our users are also in Gridcoin, but most of them were PrimeGrid users anyway. We don't get more users, but the users get a little money, which is a good thing. (I'm not going to get into WHERE the money comes from. That's a rabbit hole I don't want to go into.)

For you users, the advantage of Gridcoin is you make a little cash.

The disadvantage is there's a bit of complexity involved, and you MUST leave whatever team you're in and join the gridcoin team. That's a technical limitation, which they want to fix. But for now, you must be in the gridcoin team to participate.

I think the references to "competition" that some have made were referring to team competition, not individuals.

Lastly, there's gridcoin pools for those who don't want to deal with the complexity of setting up Gridcoin yourself. The pools operate as a BOINC account manager. You join the pools, they operate as a single user (well, 3 users now), and you just get cash while the pool controls what your computer crunches.

The disadvantage of being in a pool is you don't get to select what sub-projects you run. All pool computers run GCW-Sieve on the CPU and PPS-Sieve on the GPU. This is done for two reasons: 1) We don't want unsuspecting users' computers running high powered apps and possibly causing damage or running their fans at full speed and making more noise than they're used to, and 2) We don't want Atom CPUs running SoB tasks and GT 410 GPUs running GFN-22 tasks.


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Message 121623 - Posted: 30 Oct 2018 | 13:59:30 UTC - in response to Message 121621.

I don't believe I've seen any answer from Michael as to why his question and this thread were posted. Knowing him, there's some reason he would ask such an open ended question.

Cheers Rick


I'm not happy with the demands/requests the people at Gridcoin are making, and am considering whether we should ban them. (There's no need to get into the details of that their requests for the purpose of this discussion. They're technical in nature.)


I think there is a need to go into detail since the suggestions, not demands/requests, are not unreasonable. May I explain them so the audience gets the full context?

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The "Shut up already!" badge:  This loud mouth has mansplained on the forums over 10 thousand times!  Sheesh!!!Discovered the World's First GFN-19 prime!!!Discovered 1 mega primeFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de Primes321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,816,300)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,005,249)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,009,577)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,145,754)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,821,594)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,750,428)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (34,221,148)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,293,415)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,014,138)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,737,347)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,195,123)321 Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,060,749)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,170,256)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,059,304)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,110,788)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,114,260)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (65,974,170)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,404,447)
Message 121625 - Posted: 30 Oct 2018 | 14:02:17 UTC - in response to Message 121623.
Last modified: 30 Oct 2018 | 14:05:16 UTC

I don't believe I've seen any answer from Michael as to why his question and this thread were posted. Knowing him, there's some reason he would ask such an open ended question.

Cheers Rick


I'm not happy with the demands/requests the people at Gridcoin are making, and am considering whether we should ban them. (There's no need to get into the details of that their requests for the purpose of this discussion. They're technical in nature.)


I think there is a need to go into detail since the suggestions, not demands/requests, are not unreasonable. May I explain them so the audience gets the full context?


No. That's not relevant to this discussion, and would interfere with gathering the opinions of the participants here. I want to know what our people think about Gridcoin, not rehash another discussion.

Edit: It's my opinion that it would unfairly bias people against Gridcoin, and I really want to avoid that. It's why I haven't linked to any of the relevant discussions elsewhere. I'm not trying to win a debate here; I don't need anyone's approval to make decisions. I want to get everyone's opinion without trying to persuade them to my own personal viewpoint.
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Message 121626 - Posted: 30 Oct 2018 | 14:13:38 UTC

Based on the information given, it appears to me that Gridcoin is just credit hunting. I fully understand this is a volunteer project and users should always be free to run what they want. But the kicker here, again based on the info given, is not what they are running but the unreasonableness of the requests for data regardless of how they get it.

As others stated, I don't believe they are causing harm to the project by doing actual work but if they feel that their inability to get what they perceive as their data in the time and form they want, well then that does cause an issue.

So my vote would be to allow them to stay, and as I am sure you've done, tell them this is how and when you can get your data (stats) and let them decide if they want to stay or not.

Cheers Rick
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Message 121627 - Posted: 30 Oct 2018 | 14:17:38 UTC - in response to Message 121625.

I don't believe I've seen any answer from Michael as to why his question and this thread were posted. Knowing him, there's some reason he would ask such an open ended question.

Cheers Rick


I'm not happy with the demands/requests the people at Gridcoin are making, and am considering whether we should ban them. (There's no need to get into the details of that their requests for the purpose of this discussion. They're technical in nature.)


I think there is a need to go into detail since the suggestions, not demands/requests, are not unreasonable. May I explain them so the audience gets the full context?


No. That's not relevant to this discussion, and would interfere with gathering the opinions of the participants here. I want to know what our people think about Gridcoin, not rehash another discussion.

Edit: It's my opinion that it would unfairly bias people against Gridcoin, and I really want to avoid that. It's why I haven't linked to any of the relevant discussions elsewhere. I'm not trying to win a debate here; I don't need anyone's approval to make decisions. I want to get everyone's opinion without trying to persuade them to my own personal viewpoint.


Ok.

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Found 2 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de Primes321 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,012,503)Cullen LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,011,118)ESP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,022,307)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,004,746)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,790,304)PSP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,023,238)SoB LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,113,239)SR5 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,784,784)SGS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,162,202)TRP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,309,179)Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,001,901)321 Sieve Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,036,805)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,005,331)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (63,539,979)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,224,371)GFN Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (25,599,556)PSA Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,059,222)
Message 121629 - Posted: 30 Oct 2018 | 14:45:08 UTC - in response to Message 121625.
Last modified: 30 Oct 2018 | 14:45:40 UTC

Michael Goetz wrote:
... I want to get everyone's opinion without trying to persuade them to my own personal viewpoint.

OK.

How I feel: Gridcoin doesn't make any difference to me.
____________
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Message 121630 - Posted: 30 Oct 2018 | 14:50:40 UTC

Without knowing the particulars of the discussions and issues behind the scenes; I would like to chime in with a few general observations and opinions that may or may not help everyone think about this issue with a little more clarity. Nothing here is meant to be an accusation or wrongdoing or even a suggestion that any wrongdoing could even be happening here.

1. The health and security of the Primegrid site and servers should be paramount. This project would greatly suffer without healthy and secure servers and website. Anything that threatens the health and security of the site and servers should be denied access. And by anything, I mean anything.

2. Data quality is the whole point of the systems that are in place here. Anything that could threaten data quality should be denied access. I know Primegrid has many systems in place to prevent bad data from being passed in to the project. So I'm not too worried about that.

3. Data quantity is also very important. The more participants and the more work done means projects will be advanced or completed faster. This is a good thing. But data quantity should not come at the cost of data quality or an increased workload on the volunteer project administrators.

4. This IS a volunteer project from the users right up to the administrators. As such it is up to the administrators to decide if a user action or request is worth the time and effort it takes to implement and maintain. This is especially in a volunteer situation.

5. As a volunteer user it can be very apparent how much distributed computing can cost in hardware, electricity, etc. The more horsepower the higher the cost. Any way to offset that is certainly welcome as long as it doesn't cause any harm to projects.

I am not making any formal opinion on Gridcoin as to "ban" or "no ban".
I just wanted to give some points for people to think about when forming their opinion one way or another.
Maybe the users realize that Gridcoin is causing a problem for the project.
Maybe the project admins realize that Gridcoin is not that big of a deal.
Or maybe reality is some murky mess out in left field.
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The "Shut up already!" badge:  This loud mouth has mansplained on the forums over 10 thousand times!  Sheesh!!!Discovered the World's First GFN-19 prime!!!Discovered 1 mega primeFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de Primes321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,816,300)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,005,249)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,009,577)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,145,754)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,821,594)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,750,428)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (34,221,148)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,293,415)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,014,138)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,737,347)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,195,123)321 Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,060,749)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,170,256)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,059,304)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,110,788)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,114,260)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (65,974,170)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,404,447)
Message 121631 - Posted: 30 Oct 2018 | 14:52:21 UTC - in response to Message 121626.
Last modified: 30 Oct 2018 | 14:56:15 UTC

Based on the information given, it appears to me that Gridcoin is just credit hunting. I fully understand this is a volunteer project and users should always be free to run what they want. But the kicker here, again based on the info given, is not what they are running but the unreasonableness of the requests for data regardless of how they get it.


No, that's not at all the point.

The technical dispute is irrelevant. It will get resolved, and it's nobody's concern except for the people involved in the technical side of this.

What I want to know is whether people already have an opinion, one way of another, about Gridcoin.

If you don't already have an opinion, then by definition it doesn't affect you yet. How it might affect you in the future doesn't really concern me because any number of things could change before that hypothetical future arrives.

If you already have a strong dislike for Gridcoin, please say so and why.

If you already have a strong liking for Gridcoin, please say so and why.

If you don't have a strong opinion about Gridcoin, then say that. This is more useful to me than trying to form an opinion based on limited information.

The purpose of this question is to see how many people would be affected adversely by whatever decision we make. Since Gridcoin's been around for a couple of years, if you now need to ask "What's Gridcoin?", you're probably not going to be affected one way or the other.
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The "Shut up already!" badge:  This loud mouth has mansplained on the forums over 10 thousand times!  Sheesh!!!Discovered the World's First GFN-19 prime!!!Discovered 1 mega primeFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de Primes321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,816,300)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,005,249)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,009,577)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,145,754)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,821,594)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,750,428)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (34,221,148)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,293,415)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,014,138)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,737,347)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,195,123)321 Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,060,749)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,170,256)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,059,304)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,110,788)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,114,260)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (65,974,170)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,404,447)
Message 121632 - Posted: 30 Oct 2018 | 14:54:58 UTC - in response to Message 121630.

1. The health and security of the Primegrid site and servers should be paramount. This project would greatly suffer without healthy and secure servers and website. Anything that threatens the health and security of the site and servers should be denied access. And by anything, I mean anything.

2. Data quality is the whole point of the systems that are in place here. Anything that could threaten data quality should be denied access. I know Primegrid has many systems in place to prevent bad data from being passed in to the project. So I'm not too worried about that.

3. Data quantity is also very important. The more participants and the more work done means projects will be advanced or completed faster. This is a good thing. But data quantity should not come at the cost of data quality or an increased workload on the volunteer project administrators.


We're confident that all of those are being adequately taken care of now. :)
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The "Shut up already!" badge:  This loud mouth has mansplained on the forums over 10 thousand times!  Sheesh!!!Discovered the World's First GFN-19 prime!!!Discovered 1 mega primeFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de Primes321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,816,300)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,005,249)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,009,577)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,145,754)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,821,594)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,750,428)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (34,221,148)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,293,415)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,014,138)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,737,347)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,195,123)321 Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,060,749)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,170,256)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,059,304)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,110,788)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,114,260)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (65,974,170)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,404,447)
Message 121633 - Posted: 30 Oct 2018 | 14:58:04 UTC

For the record, although he hasn't spoken up here yet, I'm counting user "Dad" as a strong "I like Gridcoin!" vote. :)
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Found 2 primes in the 2019 Tour de Primes321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,163,533)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,000,179)ESP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,031,950)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,225,193)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (14,491,176)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,089,996)SoB LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,021,218)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,136,599)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,043,973)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,464,430)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,014,200)321 Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,306,585)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,203,942)PPS Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,247,650)AP 26/27 Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,588,711)GFN Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,943,153)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (19,918,343)
Message 121639 - Posted: 30 Oct 2018 | 15:59:36 UTC - in response to Message 121629.

How I feel: Gridcoin doesn't make any difference to me.


To me too.

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321 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,015,889)Cullen LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,009,182)ESP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,008,510)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,003,138)PPS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,017,883)PSP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,060,129)SoB LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,065,771)SR5 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,014,336)SGS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,005,821)TRP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,025,961)Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,018,548)321 Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (16,802,332)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,201,726)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (51,154,925)TRP Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,002,705)AP 26/27 Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,009,277)GFN Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (28,348,286)
Message 121643 - Posted: 30 Oct 2018 | 17:09:20 UTC
Last modified: 30 Oct 2018 | 17:10:18 UTC

Pro Gridcoin

My train of thought.

The server situation should get sorted if admins feel the connection gets saturated but to 'cut off your arm because a bumblebee bites you' is probably not the right choice.

How large is the backlog that PPS-sieve has produced? Is it time to suspend the sieve and get a new CPU/GPU sieve into production (321 SV?).

The ultimate goal should be solving complex patterns and problems by finding primes. I get that some may find it cheating to have multiple users on one-two-three accounts but I feel it helps Primegrid. It doesn't interest me who's currently ranking the highest. There will always be someone with faster hardware than what I have. Badges are decorative feathers, a way to show off your work and seniority.

If Gridcoin does get banned, where is the line drawn? I see Syracuse University doing a blend of PPS-sieve and AP on, most likely, multiple hosts - is that cheating too?

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Discovered the World's First AP27!!!Discovered 8 mega primesDiscovered 1 AP272018 Tour de Primes largest primeFound 4 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de Primes321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,900,653)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,142,092)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,404,450)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,466,498)PPS LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (31,737,335)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,316,972)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (34,998,007)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,095,601)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,062,033)TRP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,093,308)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,062,771)321 Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,025,452)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,892,369)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,515,338)PPS Sieve Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (780,696,632)TRP Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (121,416)AP 26/27 Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (55,748,927)GFN Double Ruby: Earned 2,000,000,000 credits (2,111,354,817)
Message 121644 - Posted: 30 Oct 2018 | 17:11:24 UTC

Michael, I don't have a strong opinion about Gridcoin.

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321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (105,132)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (146,642)ESP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (143,452)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (141,752)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (113,357)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (226,488)SoB LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (304,166)SR5 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (112,993)SGS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (115,230)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (126,265)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (139,528)321 Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (236,635)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (151,841)PPS Sieve Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,985,519)AP 26/27 Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (169,806)GFN Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,906,171)PSA Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (869,530)
Message 121645 - Posted: 30 Oct 2018 | 17:11:40 UTC

I think that the computing power brought to the project by gridcoin is a good thing. I would like to see them do something other than just sieving, but I don't have any issues with them.
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321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (104,482)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (102,670)ESP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (104,502)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (114,572)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (102,015)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (118,657)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (24,318,280)SR5 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (100,043)SGS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (105,539)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (106,264)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (107,466)321 Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (140,910)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,005,637)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (104,861)PPS Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,033,489)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (15,365,882)TRP Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (119,061)AP 26/27 Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (105,118)GFN Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (250,199)PSA Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (131,126)
Message 121646 - Posted: 30 Oct 2018 | 17:16:04 UTC

I don't care one way or another regarding Gridcoin. That said, if a ban was decided, then I hope a detailed reason for the ban would be provided. In general I'm not in favor of banning any group or individual without transparency.

I'd prefer if Gridcoin (and everyone else) focused on the conjectures rather than relocating goalposts, but that's simply a personal preference and I realize not everyone will share it.

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321 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (10,559)Cullen LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (31,346)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (65,043)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (459,033)SoB LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (48,626)SGS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (43,466)TRP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (18,307)Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (16,701)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (33,314)PPS Sieve Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,051,752)AP 26/27 Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (541,762)GFN Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,244,944)PSA Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,566,520)
Message 121650 - Posted: 30 Oct 2018 | 18:29:11 UTC

No opinion about them here.
Since I'm a tiny cruncher, I'm not into credits, I have no problem with the high ranking of pools/their team. They don't really affect me (besides their obvious efforts in sieving, which will help us all in searching for more primes).

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Discovered 3 mega primes2018 Tour de Primes highest prime count2018 Tour de Primes highest prime scoreFound 50 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de Primes Mountain StageFound 1 mega prime in the 2018 Tour de Primes Mountain StageFound 5 primes in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de Primes Mountain Stage321 LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (40,143,120)Cullen LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,241,050)ESP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,910,484)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (24,820,589)PPS LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (156,515,796)PSP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (28,491,696)SoB LLR Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (202,558,741)SR5 LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (23,756,866)SGS LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,377,659)TRP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (30,128,392)Woodall LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,121,734)321 Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,190,853)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (126,821,599)PPS Sieve Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (107,686,595)AP 26/27 Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (65,872,599)GFN Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (121,034,737)PSA Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (64,141,506)
Message 121652 - Posted: 30 Oct 2018 | 18:49:19 UTC

I don't mind gridcoin, as long as the admins can cope. But I would prefer not to ban anyone or any team unless they don't follow the rules and policies.
And, having been in the top 10 for a few months then way down now, I certainly dislike arguments along the line "it is unfair, they have too much CPU/GPU power". Anyone can build a team to pool power.

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321 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (528,910)Cullen LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (534,381)ESP LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (607,980)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (84,894)PPS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,162,194)PSP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,506,859)SR5 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (238,793)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,231,000)TRP LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (569,673)Woodall LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (856,316)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,209,176)PPS Sieve Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (523,688,221)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (219,210)TRP Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (524,540)AP 26/27 Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (695,396)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (56,090,128)
Message 121653 - Posted: 30 Oct 2018 | 18:57:12 UTC

http://formula-boinc.org/index.py?year=2007&lang=
From 2007 is on first three places nearly same teams... just from 2014 we see some changes on third place..
Soo absolutly no problem with gridcoin,and other "teams" charityengine..
Gridcoin Finally "teared down wall" of monopoly few big teams on boinc scene, just in 2016.. -)
competition is healthy..))

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The "Shut up already!" badge:  This loud mouth has mansplained on the forums over 10 thousand times!  Sheesh!!!Discovered the World's First GFN-19 prime!!!Discovered 1 mega primeFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de Primes321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,816,300)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,005,249)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,009,577)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,145,754)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,821,594)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,750,428)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (34,221,148)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,293,415)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,014,138)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,737,347)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,195,123)321 Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,060,749)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,170,256)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,059,304)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,110,788)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,114,260)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (65,974,170)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,404,447)
Message 121654 - Posted: 30 Oct 2018 | 19:06:14 UTC

Gridcoin is not a user. (Although there are users in Gridcoin.)

Gridcoin is not a team. (Although there is a Gridcoin team that you must join to earn Gridcoins.)

Gridcoin is a cryptocurrency, and it is a system by which BOINC users may earn the Gridcoin cryptocurrency.

When I talk about banning Gridcoin, I'm talking about banning the use of PrimeGrid to earn the Gridcoin cryptocurrency.

Having teams, or groups of users, or renting computers, pooling computers, and any of that stuff is all perfectly acceptable and has been done in many contexts for many years.

Food for thought (and the primary reason I don't like Gridcoin, even though we probably won't ban it): Gridcoin, by definition, monetizes BOINC credit. Credit used to be worthless. No matter how many billions of credit you had, you could not buy a cup of coffee with BOINC credit.

And yet people were constantly trying to cheat and steal credit, even going so far as to fake task results (and ruin the project's science data) just to get more (worthless) credit.

Imagine how much worse that problem gets when credit is worth actual money.
____________
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My lucky number is 75898524288+1

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Discovered the World's First AP27!!!Discovered 8 mega primesDiscovered 1 AP272018 Tour de Primes largest primeFound 4 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de Primes321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,900,653)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,142,092)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,404,450)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,466,498)PPS LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (31,737,335)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,316,972)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (34,998,007)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,095,601)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,062,033)TRP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,093,308)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,062,771)321 Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,025,452)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,892,369)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,515,338)PPS Sieve Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (780,696,632)TRP Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (121,416)AP 26/27 Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (55,748,927)GFN Double Ruby: Earned 2,000,000,000 credits (2,111,354,817)
Message 121655 - Posted: 30 Oct 2018 | 19:08:36 UTC

Ok, on reflection, I do find it mildly irritating that a team can impersonate a single user. But I won't lose any sleep over it.
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Found 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de Primes321 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,310,491)Cullen LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,065,659)ESP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,658,417)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,216,209)PPS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,127,962)PSP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,290,845)SoB LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,603,584)SR5 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,762,093)SGS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,108,426)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,594,095)Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,323,182)321 Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,002,108)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,967,439)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,137,451)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (232,224,508)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (627,444)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,956,401)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (15,856,233)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (64,937,531)PSA Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (86,964,270)
Message 121661 - Posted: 30 Oct 2018 | 19:46:05 UTC - in response to Message 121654.

And yet people were constantly trying to cheat and steal credit, even going so far as to fake task results (and ruin the project's science data) just to get more (worthless) credit.


cheaters and thiefs break the rules and should be banned; that are the rules, no sorry for them.

the basic problem (make money out of worthless credit) is an philosophic and can´t be solved by a DC project, because you split of the work in mesurable workunits; if you hide the credit, they will count workunits and compute them with an internal credit-factor; if you hide the workunits, they will count on the client, where you could not do anything;

the question is whether the community condemns such behavior; as a project admin of a DC project, you can do little about it for the reasons just mentioned (only play by the rules, not to behave the same way like the cheaters/thiefs). You can see it pragmatically and not waste energy on problems that you can not solve. The germ for a discussion of the community is set
____________
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PPS Sieve Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,621,451)AP 26/27 Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (117,247)GFN Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,142,398)
Message 121663 - Posted: 30 Oct 2018 | 20:39:28 UTC

Now I know Michael has said that he doesn't want to get into the technical details however I think it is important that some background is important so I will give a brief overview from my own understanding and will try to be as balanced as possible (See note on transparency at the end of my post).

Gridcoin is a cryptocurrency and as such relies on decentralisation and consensus as a form of security. Today, in order to gain this decentralisation a large enough proportion of clients in the Gridcoin network need to download the project stats each day, the network then can automatically cross-check the stats with each other ensuring no individual or group of individuals can tamper with the stats for their own gain.

This stats download is what has caused PrimeGrid problems, it has caused the effects of a short term DDOS when a large number of clients have tried to download the stats at the same time, effectively choking the projects connection.

Now the possibility of this happening has been a hot topic in the Gridcoin community as we most certainly don't want to cause problems for the projects, lots of ideas have and are being thrown about on how we can keep the stats decentralised whilst having a minimal impact on the BOINC project servers (Indeed it is one of the main reasons the team requirement is still there).

One of these ideas is currently being tested, but it is only a stop-gap measure as it centralises stats collection to a single "scraper". This can only be a temporary solution in its current form though as it introduces a vulnerability in that everyone has to trust that the individual running the "scraper" is not tampering with the statistics.

This is where I think the point about demands/requests comes in. As I have said there are and have been lots of discussions going on with people throwing ideas about, some of these ideas include changes on the PrimeGrid side such as providing a hash of the stats file. I sincerely hope that this has merely been a misunderstanding on both sides and I hope that these are just ideas of how to stop us being a problem for PrimeGrid being thrown about and not demands that PrimeGrid must implement changes.


My personal opinion is that it is completely a projects decision on whether they wish to make changes to accommodate Gridcoin or not and we should not hold it against any project that does not want to be involved. It is Gridcoin that has the responsibility and onus to ensure we respect a projects wishes, for this reason I wrote into the project listing process that was agreed by public vote that we will respect any decision from a project admin to not be listed for Gridcoin rewards.


Note: For transparencies sake I crunch for Gridcoin and I am a contributor to the Gridcoin project. I am far away from being a developer though, but have contributed by writing some standards and processes which have been adopted by public vote and currently run a temporary website and database tracking project statistics for the project listings.
____________
https://gridcoin.ddns.net
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The "Shut up already!" badge:  This loud mouth has mansplained on the forums over 10 thousand times!  Sheesh!!!Discovered the World's First GFN-19 prime!!!Discovered 1 mega primeFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de Primes321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,816,300)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,005,249)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,009,577)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,145,754)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,821,594)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,750,428)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (34,221,148)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,293,415)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,014,138)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,737,347)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,195,123)321 Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,060,749)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,170,256)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,059,304)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,110,788)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,114,260)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (65,974,170)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,404,447)
Message 121667 - Posted: 30 Oct 2018 | 21:38:25 UTC

POll RESULTS

There's enough diversity of opinion regarding Gridcoin that we probably won't ban Gridcoin. Mostly, I wanted to make sure that there wasn't an overwhelming desire to see them go away. There isn't.

Baring something else happening, I see no reason to stop them from using PrimeGrid in the future once they get their statistics working again.
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Found 2 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de Primes321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,966,603)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,098,443)ESP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,096,003)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (19,415,453)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,953,244)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (9,089,608)SoB LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,074,463)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,628,776)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,242,555)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (76,372)TRP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,366,704)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,281,303)321 Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,297,470)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,000,264)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,111,347)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (342,928,524)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,177,104)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,556,644)AP 26/27 Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (106,241,834)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (338,250,646)PSA Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (955,439,601)
Message 121669 - Posted: 30 Oct 2018 | 21:56:47 UTC
Last modified: 30 Oct 2018 | 22:09:05 UTC

Cryptocurrencies in general are a very polarizing topic, so it is probably a wise idea for any project to keep some distance. If they want to use a project to determine how many of their "coins" each participant receives, then they have to figure out how to do this without DDOSing the project's servers. If they can't come up with a solution, well, that's their problem, not the project's.

Of course, individual users should be banned if they are caught cheating. Yes, there have been cheaters and even another botnet all the time even without any kind of monetary incentive, that's why the quorum for sieve tasks was set to 2 before Gridcoin was even created. But unless their aim was to just create a mess by injecting fake results (and at least that botnet did not do that), their success was not that great, as their points were subtracted later and their reputation was ruined. If they now cheat to receive more coins, they won't care about having their points subtracted later. While members of the Gridcoin community regularly helped the project administrators when something fishy was going on in the past, I wonder why they did not temporarily remove all projects that are open to exactly the same attack from their whitelist to let them fix the loophole before it is exploited. And the cheaters caught so far were not particularly clever; heaven help us if those coins ever have any real value and more skilled hackers have a go at it.

Even apart from that, I have trouble to find positive aspects of Gridcoin. Mike already noted that he does not see a net positive for PrimeGrid. While PrimeGrid always has been my pet project, I've also been looking at how the BOINC platform as a whole develops. It's perhaps not the most useful metric with all the flaws of cross-project user identification, but the rise of Gridcoin has not stopped the decline of active crunchers. I'm not aware of any numbers on how many new crunchers they recruited, but at this year's BOINC workshop, a Gridcoin member claimed that their most successful recruitment campaign was an advertising campaign at BOINCstats. It's a safe bet that every visitor of BOINCstats already is an active cruncher, so that's a grand total of zero new crunchers. A significant portion of their computing power is coming from the Charity Engine, which has been in operation long before (albeit far less visibly unless you were looking for it very carefully). The fraction of active members in team Gridcoin is somewhat higher than in other big teams here at PG, but of course, the other big teams had much more time for members to quit crunching. On younger projects, there is no difference, so the monetary incentive doesn't appear to keep crunchers more motivated in the long term. That's not yet evidence of monetary incentives killing enthusiasm as some studies on that topic suggest, but the monetary incentive also doesn't appear to be that effective an argument to recruit more crunchers.

Edit: Wow, I really need to write faster.

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The "Shut up already!" badge:  This loud mouth has mansplained on the forums over 10 thousand times!  Sheesh!!!Discovered the World's First GFN-19 prime!!!Discovered 1 mega primeFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de Primes321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,816,300)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,005,249)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,009,577)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,145,754)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,821,594)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,750,428)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (34,221,148)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,293,415)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,014,138)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,737,347)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,195,123)321 Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,060,749)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,170,256)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,059,304)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,110,788)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,114,260)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (65,974,170)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,404,447)
Message 121681 - Posted: 30 Oct 2018 | 23:52:37 UTC

It has been brought to my attention that the method I had described whereby BOINC projects could steal from Gridcoin is not in fact possible.

There are safeguards built into the Gridcoin system to prevent an attack such as I described.

Kudos to those at Gridcoin for anticipating such an attempt at cheating, and for devising a way to prevent it.

I'm going to delete several of my prior posts since I now know they're misleading. (Misleading is a euphemism. They're 100% wrong.) I may also delete some other posts responding to mine, since, if they were left behind, they would be out of context and confusing.

Most importantly, I truly apologize to anyone who was hurt or confused by my error! And thanks to the folks at Gridcoin for explaining patiently why I was mistaken.
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Discovered the World's First AP27!!!Discovered 8 mega primesDiscovered 1 AP272018 Tour de Primes largest primeFound 4 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de Primes321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,900,653)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,142,092)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,404,450)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,466,498)PPS LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (31,737,335)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,316,972)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (34,998,007)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,095,601)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,062,033)TRP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,093,308)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,062,771)321 Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,025,452)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,892,369)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,515,338)PPS Sieve Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (780,696,632)TRP Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (121,416)AP 26/27 Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (55,748,927)GFN Double Ruby: Earned 2,000,000,000 credits (2,111,354,817)
Message 121682 - Posted: 30 Oct 2018 | 23:59:04 UTC - in response to Message 121681.

It has been brought to my attention that the method I had described whereby BOINC projects could steal from Gridcoin is not in fact possible.

There are safeguards built into the Gridcoin system to prevent an attack such as I described.

Kudos to those at Gridcoin for anticipating such an attempt at cheating, and for devising a way to prevent it.

I'm going to delete several of my prior posts since I now know they're misleading. (Misleading is a euphemism. They're 100% wrong.) I may also delete some other posts responding to mine, since, if they were left behind, they would be out of context and confusing.

Most importantly, I truly apologize to anyone who was hurt or confused by my error! And thanks to the folks at Gridcoin for explaining patiently why I was mistaken.


No problem Michael, just remind me, never to pi55 you off. And if I ever have, sorry, sorry, sorry! ;) :) :)...;D
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Discovered the World's First AP27!!!Discovered 8 mega primesDiscovered 1 AP272018 Tour de Primes largest primeFound 4 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de Primes321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,900,653)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,142,092)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,404,450)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,466,498)PPS LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (31,737,335)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,316,972)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (34,998,007)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,095,601)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,062,033)TRP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,093,308)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,062,771)321 Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,025,452)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,892,369)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,515,338)PPS Sieve Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (780,696,632)TRP Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (121,416)AP 26/27 Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (55,748,927)GFN Double Ruby: Earned 2,000,000,000 credits (2,111,354,817)
Message 121685 - Posted: 31 Oct 2018 | 0:21:03 UTC

BTW what I said earlier about being mildly irritating was about the faceless aspect of the user/team. The sense of community is somewhat disrupted by not knowing an individual by name or handle to associate with. No big deal but ya know what I mean :) Primegrid community is what makes it special. Fun, rant and moan, it's all good :)
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321 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,071,031)Cullen LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,165,737)ESP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,021,868)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,046,510)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,090,575)PSP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,291,823)SoB LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,043,824)SR5 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,000,984)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,095,282)TRP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,033,808)Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,088,488)321 Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,006,315)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (944,431)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,813,253)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (337,336,051)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,446,797)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (33,132,385)GFN Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (24,957,668)PSA Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,457,430)
Message 121707 - Posted: 31 Oct 2018 | 10:58:37 UTC - in response to Message 121615.

mikey wrote:
I now have about 17 pc's here in my house crunching, and my electric bill shows it, but I can't compete on a user basis with GridCoin since they are listed as a 'user' by the stats sites, and that's my ONLY beef with Gridcoin and I'm not sure they have anything to do with that.

[..]

IMHO keep Gridcoin just label them as a Team and not a user for the stats.

I believe you're referring to the pool accounts. I don't know about the percentages, but there are also a lot of people (the majority?) crunching GRC solo (yours truly included). Or just crunching "normally" with GRC as an added benefit, if you want to look at it that way (I do). Pools are one way to get a starter-pack of coins before you can start staking on your own within a reasonable amount of time.

There actually is a Gridcoin team for every whitelisted project and if you want to earn coins, you have to join. For me at least that's not an issue, I never cared about teams.


Yes you are correct, I was referring to the POOL accounts and should have said that!! I was NOT referring to individuals running Gridcoin as individuals, they are just crunchers like me and should be treated as such.

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The "Shut up already!" badge:  This loud mouth has mansplained on the forums over 10 thousand times!  Sheesh!!!Discovered the World's First GFN-19 prime!!!Discovered 1 mega primeFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de Primes321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,816,300)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,005,249)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,009,577)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,145,754)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,821,594)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,750,428)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (34,221,148)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,293,415)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,014,138)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,737,347)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,195,123)321 Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,060,749)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,170,256)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,059,304)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,110,788)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,114,260)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (65,974,170)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,404,447)
Message 121717 - Posted: 31 Oct 2018 | 13:22:13 UTC

This thread has served its purpose, so I'm closing it. Thanks everyone for participating!

Message boards : General discussion : Member Poll: Is Gridcoin good or bad?

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