Welcome to the Prime Time Challenge

PrimeGrid’s Challenge series continues with the "Prime Time Challenge". It's high time we initiated the new server and what better way to do it than with a Challenge. The success of the last Challenge secures PrimeGrid's future for growth and once again allows all projects to be considered for the Challenge Series. Our thanks continue to go out to those who donated and to everyone who participated in the Challenge.

[Initiate: to induct into membership by or as if by special rites, Webster]

It's time to return to the thrill of finding primes...and for that, we turn to PrimeGrid's newest project, the Proth Prime Search. Currently, these tests are rather short so this will also give us a good opportunity to "stress" test and fine tune the new server. The Proth Prime Search is slowly working its way up to the "reportable" prime level in Chris Caldwell's The Largest Known Primes Database! To view the bottom primes in the list, click on the following: 4900th-5000th primes.

As you can see, an n level of ~344,000 (5 Nov 2008) is needed to enter the database. Currently, PPS LLR is around n=290,000. We are confident that n=334,000 can be reached either in the run up to the Challenge or in the Challenge itself. So please come join us as we initiate the new server and bring the Proth Prime Search to the "reportable" prime level.

A 48 hour Challenge is being offered on PrimeGrid’s Proth Prime Search LLR application.

To participate in the Challenge, please select only the Proth Prime Search (LLR) project in your PrimeGrid preferences section. The challenge will begin 14 November 2008 18:00 UTC and end 16 November 2008 18:00 UTC. Application builds are available for Linux 32 bit and Windows 32 bit. These applications will be sent to 64 bit clients. As with all LLR application projects, there is no advantage of 64 bit over 32 bit.

NOTE: For the past several months, our primary focus has been on getting the PPS Sieve deep enough to start LLRing. While we have made great strides in this effort, we still need more help. Leading up to this Challenge, anyone with a 64 bit multiple core system is encouraged to join the Proth Prime Search sieving effort. Please see this post if you are interested as it requires us to enable the project in your PrimeGrid preferences.

ATTENTION: The primality program LLR is CPU intensive; so, it is vital to have a stable system with good cooling. It does not tolerate "even the slightest of errors." Please see this post for more details on how you can "stress test" your computer. WU’s will take ~2 minutes on fast/newer computers and 4+ minutes on slower/older computers. If your computer is highly overclocked, please consider "stress testing" it. Sieving is an excellent alternative for computers that are not able to LLR. :)

Please, please, please make sure your machines are up to the task.

Time zone converter:

The World Clock - Time Zone Converter

Scoring Information

Scores will be kept for individuals and teams. Only work units issued AFTER 14 November 2008 18:00 UTC and received BEFORE 16 November 2008 18:00 UTC will be considered for credit. We will use the "prime score" method which is based on the n value (k*b^n-1) to score the challenge. The only difference is that the primary and double checker of a WU will receive the same score.

Therefore, each completed WU will earn a unique score based on its n value. The higher the n, the higher the score. This is different than BOINC cobblestones! A quorum of 2 is NOT needed to award Challenge score - i.e. no wingman. Therefore, each returned result will earn a Challenge score. Please note that if the result is eventually declared invalid, the score will be removed.

For details on how the score is calculated, please see this thread.

About the Proth Prime Search

The Proth Prime Search is done in collaboration with the Proth Search project. This search looks for primes in the form of k*2^n+1. With the condition 2^n > k, these are often called Proth primes. This project also has the added bonus of possibly finding factors of "classical" Fermat numbers or Generalized Fermat numbers. As this requires PrimeFormGW (PFGW) (a primality-testing program), once PrimeGrid finds a prime, it is then manually tested outside of BOINC for divisibility.

Our initial goal is be to double check all previous work up to n=500K for odd k<1200 and to fill in any gaps that were missed. PG LLRNet searched up to n=200,000 and found several missed primes in previously searched ranges. Although primes this small do not make it into the Top 5000 Primes database, the work is still important as it may lead to new factors for "classical" Fermat numbers or Generalized Fermat numbers. While there are many GFN factors, currently there are only about 270 "classical" Fermat number factors known.

Once the initial goal is reached, we'll turn our focus to smaller k values and higher n values. For example, k<32 complete to n=2M, k<64 complete to n=1M and so on. Primes found in these ranges will definitely make it into the Top 5000 Primes database.

For more information about "Proth" primes, please visit these links:

• Proth Prime - The Prime Glossary
  
• Proth Prime - Wolfram MathWorld
  
• Proth Number - Wikipedia

About Proth Search

The Proth Search project was established in 1998 by Ray Ballinger and Wilfrid Keller to coordinate a distributed effort to find Proth primes (primes of the form k*2^n+1) for k < 300. Ray was interested in finding primes while Wilfrid was interested in finding divisors of Fermat number. Since that time it has expanded to include k < 1200. Mark Rodenkirch (aka rogue) has been helping Ray keep the website up to date for the past few years.

Early in 2008, PrimeGrid and Proth Search teamed up to provide a software managed distributed effort to the search. Although it might appear that PrimeGrid is duplicating some of the Proth Search effort by re-doing some ranges, few ranges on Proth Search were ever double-checked. This has resulted in PrimeGrid finding primes that were missed by previous searchers. By the end of 2008, all new primes found by PrimeGrid will be eligible for inclusion in Chris Caldwell's Prime Pages Top 5000. Sometime in 2009, it is expected that over 90% of the tests handed out by PrimeGrids will be numbers that have never been tested.

PrimeGrid intends to continue the search for indefinitely for Proth primes.

What is LLR?

The Lucas-Lehmer-Riesel (LLR) test is a primality test for numbers of the form N = k*2^n − 1, with 2^n > k. Also, LLR is a program developed by Jean Penné that can run the LLR-tests. It includes the Proth test to perform +1 tests and PRP to test non base 2 numbers. See also:

• Lucas-Lehmer-Riesel test (WIKI)
  
• Download LLR by Jean Penné
  

(Edouard Lucas: 1842-1891, Derrick H. Lehmer: 1905-1991, Hans Riesel: born 1929).
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I am very delighted and could hardly await to begin crunching... :D

Count me in! :-)
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Well, I'm considering to put some machines on Challenge...perhaps not too much.
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My stats

Honza, you must have some serious hardware. why not put them all on and give it a bash?

While I don't exclusively run PG I use my quad to run PPS Sieve WUs as well. I'm fine doing either the sieve or the LLR during the challenge (but not both on the same machine) but I do wonder whether the admins have a preference. :)

As you can see, an n level of ~334,000 is needed to enter the database.

Just to say that entering the 334,000 n level does not mean the start of real discoveries. In fact we must wait for n~400,000 as almost all the numbers below that level was crunched by me and Steven Harvey in the original prothsearch project. You can see an old report here. Please guess the meaning of the colors, numbers and faces yourself.

Still there are chances with k between 1000 and 1200 and of course the missed primes.

John and I should discuss fairly soon about locking up another swath of ranges for PrimeGrid. I suspect that the Prime Time Challenge could push PrimeGrid up to n > 350,000 and possibly > 400,000 on PPS LLR. I want to make sure that the other ProthSearch searchers have plenty of warning before PrimeGrid gets to n = 500,000. If PrimeGrid reserves for n < 600,000 (or a higher n) now, most (if not all) ProthSearch searchers below that n will complete their ranges by the time PrimeGrid gets there.

May I ask how many missed primes have we found already? How many new xGF factors?

well, Team Ukraine will target top 10 )))
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wbr, Me. Dead J. Dona

You can count my machines in on this Challenge. as well, I'm sure my team will join in on this to :)
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John M. Johnson "Novex"

can we please have the count down clock put on the home page
thank you in advance

b.

Old is relative... I used to work on 64KB computers (YES that is a Kilobyte) and 10MB was a very big disk.
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Murphy (AtP)

Well, my ZX81 had 16k I think.

The Prime Time Challenge nears!

Less than 24 hours remain until the Prime Time Challenge (14-16 November 2008). The initiation process is already warming up as users are attaching to the Proth Prime Search (LLR) in advance of the start. We are approaching the "reportable" level in Chris Caldwell's The Largest Known Primes Database! Come help us reach it and find a prime for yourself.

Looking at the bottom of the list (4900th-5000th primes), you can see an n level of ~344,000 (13 Nov 2008) is still needed to enter the database. Currently, PPS LLR is around n=323,000 but moving fast.

This Challenge is being offered on PrimeGrid’s Proth Prime Search (LLR) application only.

To participate in the Challenge, please select only the Proth Prime Search (LLR) project in your PrimeGrid preferences section. The challenge will begin 14 November 2008 18:00 UTC and end 16 November 2008 18:00 UTC. Application builds are available for Linux 32 bit and Windows 32 bit. These applications will be sent to 64 bit clients. As with all LLR application projects, there is no advantage of 64 bit over 32 bit.

WU's should take ~2-4 minutes on a fast machine and upwards of ~6-10 minutes on slower machines.

A quorum of 2 is NOT needed to award Challenge score - i.e. no wingman. Therefore, each returned result will earn a Challenge score. Please note that if the result is eventually declared invalid, the score will be removed. Please see first post in this thread for more scoring information.

ATTENTION!!! A friendly reminder to everyone to check their machines to make sure they are stable enough for LLRing. No sense in losing precious CPU time on machines that are not up to par.

The primality program LLR is CPU intensive; so, it is vital to have a stable system with good cooling. It does not tolerate "even the slightest of errors." Please see this post for more details on how you can "stress test" your computer. If your computer is highly overclocked, please consider "stress testing" it. Sieving is an excellent alternative for computers that are not able to LLR. :)

Please everyone, check your machines to make sure they are stable enough for LLRing. No sense in losing precious CPU time on machines that are not up to par. If your machines are returning valid results, then you have nothing to worry about.

Challenge Points and BOINC credit (cobblestones) will NOT be granted to invalid results.

Let's get to the "reportable" level and Good Luck in finding a prime! :)
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Am I right, that only WUs count for the challenge, that are downloaded and returned during the challenge?

How do I see any/all details about this prime?

5pectre

The start draws near

Again we are in unchartered waters. The server is doing fine, but we have never experienced such a high volume of traffic. It will be interesting to see how the server handles it. Here's some additional information:

• The web pages may take a very long time to load or even time out. This just means that more resources are being devoted to sending out work. We appreciate your patience. Chat rooms are available here: Meebo and Mibbit
  
• On the sever status page, almost all non essential stats will be turned off. The Proth Prime Search (LLR) will remain up and be cached every 15 minutes.
  
• The server has been configured to "spread the wealth". Meaning...if you have your client set up for a large cache, it will not be filled completely in one request...or even 2 or 3 requests...but eventually it will be filled.
  
• How can you help create a better start? Lower your cache before the Challenge begins i.e. 1-2 hours worth. Once you see that your cache is full, then you can start upping it slowly to your desired level. This will allow the maximum clients to receive at least some WU's and start crunching. While the clients are crunching, the server can catch up with sending out work.
  
• Challenge stats can be found on the front page...top right. Top Participants | Top Teams
  

Best of Luck!
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Hows the server lokkig??-- getting very hard to access PG to make final adjustments now-- Challenge starts at 4am here in OZ (UTC+10)-- looks like I will have to get out of bet to get things started---

Good luck to everyone

DoES

The Prime Time Challenge has been canceled. While the server is fine, we are having issues that we are not yet able to resolve. We sincerely apologize for this. More information to come when we have it.
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oh my.

what kid of issues?



place your bets, people.

job generator is stuck with high numbers?
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wbr, Me. Dead J. Dona

Nicolas


This was the rule as stated at the bottom of this thread---

""Only work units issued AFTER 14 November 2008 18:00 UTC and received BEFORE 16 November 2008 18:00 UTC will be considered for credit.""

WU's issued prior to this would not count in the challenge--

I agree with you that it would better to cache fully before the start--

The only way I could see to keep to the rule and not have a couple of hours of non challenge WU's underway at the start was to --not accept any new tasks (empty the cache)-- then at UTC 1800--allow tasks-- I got 40 WU's per computer--

I suspect distribution of WU's may be why the operation was cancelled

Thats OK if you have 64x system-- looking a bit grim for us 32x's--I'll be out of work in a few hours--- I see there is 1 PSP Sieve WU left-- maybe they will sell it to the highest bidder

Looks like we are back in business-- WU's for everyone--- While I expect the PG guru's are a bit battle weary --be nice to get an update

Looks like we are back in business-- WU's for everyone--- While I expect the PG guru's are a bit battle weary --be nice to get an update

John –

Commiserations for the challenge event—While I leave the tech stuff to you—Might the problem be viewed as logistical and caused by participants (including myself) reactions to the “terms of engagement” (rules) of the challenge--- (see my post to Nicolas a few posts down)

I will Explain—8hrs before the start I was crunching large WU’s, these would finish at various times before UTC 18 – At this time I reduced the cache (as recommended) to under 2hrs and switched preferences to short WU’s (PPS & PSP) – I received a large number of WU’s . These WU’s would all finish before UTC 18 but I saw that I was going to pass the start with 2hrs of non challenge WU’s on board--- What I did (and probably many others) was stop accepting tasks--- At UTC 18 – accept tasks – (a lot of hungry hosts)—Not the actual cause of the problem—

If you examine the messages to and from PG minutes after the start--- We get 20WU per CPU (some 43min for me)—However with the cache set to 1 or 2hrs the BOINC Manager is continuously attacking the server looking for more work (every 1min or so) each request is answered by the server (20WU / CPU limit)—The work cache setting to avoid this should have been 30min--- If you look at the number of participants that would have been continually requesting additional but unnecessary work and the server responses its not hard to see why things went bad very fast.

I agree with Nicolas—Why not fill your work cache before the start & state the rule as “Only WU’s REPORTED AFTER UTC 18 start will count”

Is this technically feasible??—would this create a more normal server load???

Jim

Then it would be possible to stockpile a large amount of completed WUs and report them after the start, making the challenge unfair.

An idea(if this is possible):
For challenges, generate special WUs that can only be started at a certain time(the time at which the challenge begins.) Make it so these WUs have a higher priority than other applications, so when the challenge starts boinc pauses anything else in progress and starts to work on the challenge WUs only. This could allow people to stockpile WUs before the challenge starts and possibly prevent them from just aborting a large amount of other WUs/stopping computation to just wait until the challenge begins. This would reduce load during the challenge, everyone has WUs, and people start earning credit for the challenge as soon as the challenge begins.
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SiK---
Point taken – I was not considering a dishonest prospective--- Your idea has merit.

However, as WU’s seem to upload automatically as soon as they are finished—might the upload time be a suitable trigger for challenge WU’s--- disregard manual reports.???

Well, you can still turn off network access for your BOINC manager if you have cached enough WUs. The ones that are finished will be "uploading" for days, until you allow network access again.

Would it be possible to put several LLR tests into one WU to make them run longer?
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There are only 10 kinds of people - those who understand binary and those who don't

Ok— I’m an engineer – not a guru—but any solution has to be simple—easy to implement and controllable – and logistically feasible for the project scientists—

Lets turn the problem completely upside down--- Have intending participants register their computers--- give out WU’s according to 1, 2, 4 or 8 CPU.s (or whatever)--- Run the challenge on a number of different levels— Shortest time to complete Issued blocks of WU,s, Handicap honours where an old PC might get a win--- and of course most overall work done—

In other words –change the challenge from the number of WU’s crunched in a certain period-- to the time to complete a block of WU,s--- A challenge run in this manner could be run at any time with little disruption to the server – and consider the statistical data PG would get—accurate data on how long the particular WU takes on a variety of PC’s---

This changes the challenge from –WORK done in TIME to—TIME to do WORK—No doubt there would be issues to resolve ---- comments gentlemen????

Engineers 7th Commandment--- If there are no good solutions to a Problem------Change the problem!

Well, you can still turn off network access for your BOINC manager if you have cached enough WUs. The ones that are finished will be "uploading" for days, until you allow network access again.

Would it be possible to put several LLR tests into one WU to make them run longer?

Is there a new date out there for the race?

Arn´t the primes find up to now not big enough for the top5000? My last numer has around 107k digits and place 5000 is around 103k.

Given we're getting close, please can you advise exactly which projects/programs should get credit when submitting to the top5000 list please?
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Given we're getting close, please can you advise exactly which projects/programs should get credit when submitting to the top5000 list please?

Seems so - the longer numbers must come at a cost.

Pentium M 2000 => 8' 16"
Core 2 Duo 2333 => 2' 44"

Gosh the Pentium M for sure is lame...
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