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 Michael Goetz Volunteer moderator
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All of PrimeGrid's LLR applications now support AVX-512 on CPUs with that capability. Those of you that have been using app_info.xml/anonymous platform to run LLR 3.8.23 may now use the stock app if you wish, which is also LLR 3.8.23.
UPDATE May 22nd: It has come to my attention that while CPUs with 2 AVX-512 execution units gain a substantial boost in performance, mid-range CPUs with only 1 AVX-512 execution unit may see a significant decrease in performance with the new LLR app. Obviously, this is not intended. For the time being there is no workaround for this. If you have a CPU that supports AVX-512, but has only a single AVX-512 execution unit, you may want to use the anonymous platform mechanism (app_info.xml) to run the older version of LLR. With a challenge starting tomorrow, we won't make changes to the app until at least a week. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.
UPDATE May 23rd: I've included a list of single and dual unit AVX-512 CPUs here.
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My lucky number is 75898524288+1 |
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Nice, time to give my X299 Motherboards a run for the money. |
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What exactly does this mean? Significantly faster crunching? Will my E5-2686 v3 benefit from this? |
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mackerelVolunteer tester
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If you have a Skylake-X CPU, or one of the server equivalents with two AVX-512 units, you could see up to double the performance than before. This may be limited e.g. by ram bandwidth, or (lack of) multi-core scaling.
The CPU will run hotter. Running 6x PPSE my 7800X (delid + liquid metal) at stock clocks was hitting around 100C with a Noctua D14/D15 cooler (not sure exact model). I still want to underclock the AVX-512 some time... |
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Michael GoetzVolunteer moderator
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What exactly does this mean?
For you, nothing. You can safely ignore it.
Significantly faster crunching?
If you have the latest and greatest CPUs, yes.
Will my E5-2686 v3 benefit from this?
No. I believe your Xeon is a Haswell, right? It's about 4 or 5 generations too old.
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Michael GoetzVolunteer moderator
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Please read my update to the first post (https://www.primegrid.com/forum_thread.php?id=8601&nowrap=true#129682) regarding CPUs with single AVX-512 execution units.
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Great News on the CPU Intel® Core™ i9-7940X X-series Processor
# of AVX-512 FMA Units 2
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/126695/intel-core-i9-7940x-x-series-processor-19-25m-cache-up-to-4-30-ghz.html
Some Test Runs
https://forums.evga.com/FindPost/2957683 |
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What exactly does this mean?
For you, nothing. You can safely ignore it.
Significantly faster crunching?
If you have the latest and greatest CPUs, yes.
Will my E5-2686 v3 benefit from this?
No. I believe your Xeon is a Haswell, right? It's about 4 or 5 generations too old.
This is a Broadwell chip, but as you said, too old for AVX-512.
https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/intel/xeon_e5/e5-2686_v4#Expansions
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mackerelVolunteer tester
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Based on stats at http://www.primegrid.com/cpu_list.php it looks like the number of 1-unit AVX-512 systems isn't too much for now.
Skylake-X 74 systems
Xeon Silver 10 systems
Xeon Gold 10 systems
Xeon Platinum 80 systems
Only Xeon Silver has 1 AVX-512 unit, the others have two. I find it curious all the Skylake-X systems are 7000 series, no 9000. |
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Michael GoetzVolunteer moderator
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Based on stats at http://www.primegrid.com/cpu_list.php it looks like the number of 1-unit AVX-512 systems isn't too much for now.
Skylake-X 74 systems
Xeon Silver 10 systems
Xeon Gold 10 systems
Xeon Platinum 80 systems
Only Xeon Silver has 1 AVX-512 unit, the others have two. I find it curious all the Skylake-X systems are 7000 series, no 9000.
There are several i9-9000 CPUs in use here.
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mackerelVolunteer tester
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There are several i9-9000 CPUs in use here.
If I'm not being blind, any reason they're not on the list at page linked earlier? I note it lists nothing fewer than 10 systems, is that a feature? |
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Michael GoetzVolunteer moderator
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There are several i9-9000 CPUs in use here.
If I'm not being blind, any reason they're not on the list at page linked earlier? I note it lists nothing fewer than 10 systems, is that a feature?
Which page?
I've been struggling to come up with a comprehensive list of CPUs that support AVX512, let alone differentiate between those that have single and dual AVX512 units. I think I've got a list now, which I'll post in the OP here momentarily. Is that what you meant?
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Michael GoetzVolunteer moderator
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Hopefully comprehensive and accurate list of CPUs that support AVX-512:
The following lists include only Skylake SP and Skylake X CPUs. (Information for this list comes from Wickichip, Wickipedia, and Intel. The list may not be 100% accurate.)
This is the list of CPUs that fully support AVX-512:
Core i7-7000 X series
Core i7-9000 X series
Core i9-7000 X and XE series
Core i9-9000 X and XE series
Xeon W
Xeon Gold 5122 only
Xeon Gold 6000 series
Xeon Platinum
Xeon Phi 7200 series
If you have one of those, LLR is going to run faster.
Now the bad news. Intel pulled an AMD and on the mid and lower range Xeon CPUs included only one AVX512 execution unit per core instead of two, which really clobbers the AVX512 performance. The dual unit CPUs above perform great. The single unit Xeons below actually perform worse on AVX512 than with FMA3.
Xeon D
Xeon Bronze
Xeon Silver
Xeon Gold 5000 series (except Xeon Gold 5122)
Fortunately, there are not a lot of the single unit Xeons in use at PrimeGrid. That isn't much consolation if yours is one of them, however. At this time, the only remedy is to run the old 3.8.21 version of LLR using app_info.xml/anonymous platform. I'm optimistic that we'll be able to fix this, but it will have to wait at least until after the upcoming challenge.
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My lucky number is 75898524288+1 |
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I've been struggling to get app_info to work with a back-rev to 3.8.21. If anyone is able to do this successfully, please share your app_info magic. I keep getting told I don't have a usable version of <application_friendly_name> when I try.
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mackerelVolunteer tester
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There are several i9-9000 CPUs in use here.
If I'm not being blind, any reason they're not on the list at page linked earlier? I note it lists nothing fewer than 10 systems, is that a feature?
Which page?
http://www.primegrid.com/cpu_list.php
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Michael GoetzVolunteer moderator
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There are several i9-9000 CPUs in use here.
If I'm not being blind, any reason they're not on the list at page linked earlier? I note it lists nothing fewer than 10 systems, is that a feature?
Which page?
http://www.primegrid.com/cpu_list.php
That's a stock BOINC page, not one of ours. I'll need to look into it its code to see what kind of filtering it's doing.
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Michael GoetzVolunteer moderator
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There are several i9-9000 CPUs in use here.
If I'm not being blind, any reason they're not on the list at page linked earlier? I note it lists nothing fewer than 10 systems, is that a feature?
Which page?
http://www.primegrid.com/cpu_list.php
That's a stock BOINC page, not one of ours. I'll need to look into it its code to see what kind of filtering it's doing.
The third CPU on that pages is an i9-9600K. I'm guessing you're asking specifically about the X series CPUs (since this topic is about AVX-512)?
ANSWER: That page only shows CPUs when there's at least 10 of them in the database. None of them exceed that threshold (yet).
select p_model, count(*) as nhosts, avg(p_ncpus) as ncores, avg(p_fpops) as fpops from host where p_model like '%i9-9%X%' and p_model not like '%K CPU%' group by p_model;
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+--------+---------+--------------------+
| p_model | nhosts | ncores | fpops |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+--------+---------+--------------------+
| Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-9820X CPU @ 3.30GHz [Family 6 Model 85 Stepping 4] | 4 | 15.0000 | 4880670583.528169 |
| Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-9900X CPU @ 3.50GHz [Family 6 Model 85 Stepping 4] | 5 | 20.0000 | 4768379903.083909 |
| Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-9920X CPU @ 3.50GHz [Family 6 Model 85 Stepping 4] | 1 | 24.0000 | 5103442893.359552 |
| Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-9960X CPU @ 3.10GHz [Family 6 Model 85 Stepping 4] | 1 | 16.0000 | 4965711937.708844 |
| Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-9980XE CPU @ 3.00GHz [Family 6 Model 85 Stepping 4] | 6 | 36.0000 | 4466373302.0423975 |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+--------+---------+--------------------+
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Michael GoetzVolunteer moderator
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I've been struggling to get app_info to work with a back-rev to 3.8.21. If anyone is able to do this successfully, please share your app_info magic. I keep getting told I don't have a usable version of <application_friendly_name> when I try.
Post your entire app_info.xml and the contents of projects\www.primegrid.com and maybe we can get you running.
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My lucky number is 75898524288+1 |
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My C:\programdata\boinc\projects\www.primegrid.com contents:
(NOPEapp_info.xml is the app_info.xml file renamed so that it is ignored.)
C:\ProgramData\BOINC\projects\www.primegrid.com>dir
Volume in drive C has no label.
Volume Serial Number is 7880-A271
Directory of C:\ProgramData\BOINC\projects\www.primegrid.com
05/23/2019 10:47 AM <DIR> .
05/23/2019 10:47 AM <DIR> ..
05/22/2019 09:42 PM 2,543 app_config.xml
03/29/2019 12:48 PM 35,954,688 cllr64.3.8.21.exe
05/23/2019 09:48 AM 36,183,040 cllr64.3.8.23.exe
05/22/2019 07:31 PM 303 llr.ini.6.07
05/22/2019 07:32 PM 7,272,214 llr_wrapper_8.00_windows_x86_64.exe
05/22/2019 10:31 PM 6,890 NOPEapp_info.xml
05/22/2019 03:34 PM 90,521 primegrid_slideshow_00.png
05/23/2019 10:47 AM 78 slideshow_gcwsieve_00
05/23/2019 10:47 AM 78 slideshow_llrCUL_00
05/23/2019 10:47 AM 78 slideshow_llrTPS_00
05/23/2019 10:47 AM 78 slideshow_llrWOO_00
05/23/2019 10:47 AM 78 slideshow_primegen_00
05/23/2019 10:47 AM 78 slideshow_psp_sr2sieve_00
05/23/2019 10:47 AM 70 stat_icon
05/22/2019 03:34 PM 2,460 stat_primegrid.png
15 File(s) 79,513,197 bytes
2 Dir(s) 432,221,626,368 bytes free
My app_info.xml file (not present there at the moment):
<app_info>
<app><name>llr321</name><user_friendly_name>321 (LLR)</user_friendly_name></app>
<app><name>llrCUL</name><user_friendly_name>Cullen (LLR)</user_friendly_name></app>
<app><name>llrESP</name><user_friendly_name>Extended Sierpinski Problem</user_friendly_name></app>
<app><name>llrGCW</name><user_friendly_name>Generalized Cullen/Woodall (LLR)</user_friendly_name></app>
<app><name>llrMEGA</name><user_friendly_name>PPS-Mega (LLR)</user_friendly_name></app>
<app><name>llrPPS</name><user_friendly_name>PPS (LLR)</user_friendly_name></app>
<app><name>llrPPSE</name><user_friendly_name>PPSE (LLR)</user_friendly_name></app>
<app><name>llrSOB</name><user_friendly_name>Seventeen or Bust</user_friendly_name></app>
<app><name>llrSR5</name><user_friendly_name>Sierpinski/Riesel Base 5 Problem (LLR)</user_friendly_name></app>
<app><name>llrTPS</name><user_friendly_name>Sophie Germain (LLR)</user_friendly_name></app>
<app><name>llrTRP</name><user_friendly_name>The Riesel Problem (LLR)</user_friendly_name></app>
<app><name>llrWOO</name><user_friendly_name>Woodall (LLR)</user_friendly_name></app>
<file><name>primegrid_llr_wrapper_8.00_windows_x86_64.exe</name><executable/></file>
<file><name>llr.ini.6.07</name><executable/></file>
<file><name>cllr64.3.8.21.exe</name></file>
<app_version>
<app_name>llr321</app_name><version_num>800</version_num><api_version>6.12.43</api_version>
<file_ref><file_name>primegrid_llr_wrapper_8.00_windows_x86_64.exe</file_name><main_program/></file_ref>
<file_ref><file_name>cllr64.3.8.21.exe</file_name><open_name>primegrid_cllr.exe</open_name><copy_file/></file_ref>
<file_ref><file_name>llr.ini.6.07</file_name><open_name>llr.ini</open_name><copy_file/></file_ref>
</app_version>
<app_version>
<app_name>llrCUL</app_name><version_num>800</version_num><api_version>6.12.43</api_version>
<file_ref><file_name>primegrid_llr_wrapper_8.00_windows_x86_64.exe</file_name><main_program/></file_ref>
<file_ref><file_name>cllr64.3.8.21.exe</file_name><open_name>primegrid_cllr.exe</open_name><copy_file/></file_ref>
<file_ref><file_name>llr.ini.6.07</file_name><open_name>llr.ini</open_name><copy_file/></file_ref>
</app_version>
<app_version>
<app_name>llrESP</app_name><version_num>800</version_num><api_version>6.12.43</api_version>
<file_ref><file_name>primegrid_llr_wrapper_8.00_windows_x86_64.exe</file_name><main_program/></file_ref>
<file_ref><file_name>cllr64.3.8.21.exe</file_name><open_name>primegrid_cllr.exe</open_name><copy_file/></file_ref>
<file_ref><file_name>llr.ini.6.07</file_name><open_name>llr.ini</open_name><copy_file/></file_ref>
</app_version>
<app_version>
<app_name>llrGCW</app_name><version_num>800</version_num><api_version>6.12.43</api_version>
<file_ref><file_name>primegrid_llr_wrapper_8.00_windows_x86_64.exe</file_name><main_program/></file_ref>
<file_ref><file_name>cllr64.3.8.21.exe</file_name><open_name>primegrid_cllr.exe</open_name><copy_file/></file_ref>
<file_ref><file_name>llr.ini.6.07</file_name><open_name>llr.ini</open_name><copy_file/></file_ref>
</app_version>
<app_version>
<app_name>llrMEGA</app_name><version_num>800</version_num><api_version>6.12.43</api_version>
<file_ref><file_name>primegrid_llr_wrapper_8.00_windows_x86_64.exe</file_name><main_program/></file_ref>
<file_ref><file_name>cllr64.3.8.21.exe</file_name><open_name>primegrid_cllr.exe</open_name><copy_file/></file_ref>
<file_ref><file_name>llr.ini.6.07</file_name><open_name>llr.ini</open_name><copy_file/></file_ref>
</app_version>
<app_version>
<app_name>llrPPS</app_name><version_num>800</version_num><api_version>6.12.43</api_version>
<file_ref><file_name>primegrid_llr_wrapper_8.00_windows_x86_64.exe</file_name><main_program/></file_ref>
<file_ref><file_name>cllr64.3.8.21.exe</file_name><open_name>primegrid_cllr.exe</open_name><copy_file/></file_ref>
<file_ref><file_name>llr.ini.6.07</file_name><open_name>llr.ini</open_name><copy_file/></file_ref>
</app_version>
<app_version>
<app_name>llrPPSE</app_name><version_num>800</version_num><api_version>6.12.43</api_version>
<file_ref><file_name>primegrid_llr_wrapper_8.00_windows_x86_64.exe</file_name><main_program/></file_ref>
<file_ref><file_name>cllr64.3.8.21.exe</file_name><open_name>primegrid_cllr.exe</open_name><copy_file/></file_ref>
<file_ref><file_name>llr.ini.6.07</file_name><open_name>llr.ini</open_name><copy_file/></file_ref>
</app_version>
<app_version>
<app_name>llrSOB</app_name><version_num>800</version_num><api_version>6.12.43</api_version>
<file_ref><file_name>primegrid_llr_wrapper_8.00_windows_x86_64.exe</file_name><main_program/></file_ref>
<file_ref><file_name>cllr64.3.8.21.exe</file_name><open_name>primegrid_cllr.exe</open_name><copy_file/></file_ref>
<file_ref><file_name>llr.ini.6.07</file_name><open_name>llr.ini</open_name><copy_file/></file_ref>
</app_version>
<app_version>
<app_name>llrSR5</app_name><version_num>800</version_num><api_version>6.12.43</api_version>
<file_ref><file_name>primegrid_llr_wrapper_8.00_windows_x86_64.exe</file_name><main_program/></file_ref>
<file_ref><file_name>cllr64.3.8.21.exe</file_name><open_name>primegrid_cllr.exe</open_name><copy_file/></file_ref>
<file_ref><file_name>llr.ini.6.07</file_name><open_name>llr.ini</open_name><copy_file/></file_ref>
</app_version>
<app_version>
<app_name>llrTPS</app_name><version_num>800</version_num><api_version>6.12.43</api_version>
<file_ref><file_name>primegrid_llr_wrapper_8.00_windows_x86_64.exe</file_name><main_program/></file_ref>
<file_ref><file_name>cllr64.3.8.21.exe</file_name><open_name>primegrid_cllr.exe</open_name><copy_file/></file_ref>
<file_ref><file_name>llr.ini.6.07</file_name><open_name>llr.ini</open_name><copy_file/></file_ref>
</app_version>
<app_version>
<app_name>llrTRP</app_name><version_num>800</version_num><api_version>6.12.43</api_version>
<file_ref><file_name>primegrid_llr_wrapper_8.00_windows_x86_64.exe</file_name><main_program/></file_ref>
<file_ref><file_name>cllr64.3.8.21.exe</file_name><open_name>primegrid_cllr.exe</open_name><copy_file/></file_ref>
<file_ref><file_name>llr.ini.6.07</file_name><open_name>llr.ini</open_name><copy_file/></file_ref>
</app_version>
<app_version>
<app_name>llrWOO</app_name><version_num>800</version_num><api_version>6.12.43</api_version>
<file_ref><file_name>primegrid_llr_wrapper_8.00_windows_x86_64.exe</file_name><main_program/></file_ref>
<file_ref><file_name>cllr64.3.8.21.exe</file_name><open_name>primegrid_cllr.exe</open_name><copy_file/></file_ref>
<file_ref><file_name>llr.ini.6.07</file_name><open_name>llr.ini</open_name><copy_file/></file_ref>
</app_version>
</app_info>
____________
My lucky #: 60133106^131072+1 (GFN 17-mega) |
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Michael GoetzVolunteer moderator
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Ok, let's see:
1) You'll want to add <fraction_done_exact>1</fraction_done_exact> to each app section. This won't stop it from working, but we WILL get it working, and once it's working you want this.
2) Try breaking up the <app> blocks into separate lines, i.e., instead of
<app><name>llr321</name><user_friendly_name>321 (LLR)</user_friendly_name></app> use
<app>
<name>llr321</name>
<user_friendly_name>321 (LLR)</user_friendly_name>
</app>
Yes, in XML, that doesn't matter, but this is BOINC and I know that some BOINC code will not work with multiple tags on the same line. I haven't checked this particular code, but I'd wager it's the same as the other BOINC code that parses XML. If the <app> blocks aren't getting read, nothing will work.
3) It's <file_info>, not <file>. Also put everything on separate lines. The first one definitely will stop everything from working.
<file><name>primegrid_llr_wrapper_8.00_windows_x86_64.exe</name><executable/></file> becomes
<file_info>
<name>primegrid_llr_wrapper_8.00_windows_x86_64.exe</name>
<executable/>
</file_info>
4) The app version block. Split it into separate lines. Even if BOINC could read it, it's harder for us to read.
<app_version>
<app_name>llr321</app_name><version_num>800</version_num><api_version>6.12.43</api_version>
<file_ref><file_name>primegrid_llr_wrapper_8.00_windows_x86_64.exe</file_name><main_program/></file_ref>
<file_ref><file_name>cllr64.3.8.21.exe</file_name><open_name>primegrid_cllr.exe</open_name><copy_file/></file_ref>
<file_ref><file_name>llr.ini.6.07</file_name><open_name>llr.ini</open_name><copy_file/></file_ref>
</app_version> should be
<app_version>
<app_name>llr321</app_name>
<version_num>800</version_num>
<api_version>6.12.43</api_version>
<file_ref>
<file_name>primegrid_llr_wrapper_8.00_windows_x86_64.exe</file_name>
<main_program/>
</file_ref>
<file_ref>
<file_name>cllr64.3.8.21.exe</file_name>
<open_name>primegrid_cllr.exe</open_name>
<copy_file/>
</file_ref>
<file_ref>
<file_name>llr.ini.6.07</file_name>
<open_name>llr.ini</open_name>
<copy_file/>
</file_ref>
</app_version>
5) This is in your xml:
<file><name>primegrid_llr_wrapper_8.00_windows_x86_64.exe</name><executable/></file>
And this is from your directory listing:
05/22/2019 07:32 PM 7,272,214 llr_wrapper_8.00_windows_x86_64.exe
Rename llr_wrapper_8.00_windows_x86_64.exe to primegrid_llr_wrapper_8.00_windows_x86_64.exe. Or change the xml to llr_wrapper_8.00_windows_x86_64.exe. Or change both of them to foo.exe. It doesn't matter what name you use, but they do have to match.
llr_wrapper_8.00_windows_x86_64.exe is the current production file name. However, when using app_info.xml I personally avoid using the real production names because I don't want BOINC to overwrite my files with the production files. But that's just the way I like to do it.
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mackerelVolunteer tester
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The third CPU on that pages is an i9-9600K. I'm guessing you're asking specifically about the X series CPUs (since this topic is about AVX-512)?
ANSWER: That page only shows CPUs when there's at least 10 of them in the database. None of them exceed that threshold (yet).
Yes, it was Skylake-X I was referring to. Thanks for confirming. |
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Thank you for finding my errors. Working now. Confirmed the primegrid_cllr.exe copied into the Slots directory is the same size as the 3.8.21 exe in my project folder (and in fact, the 3.8.23 exe was removed )
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I have a Gold 5120 but never really messes with app_info.xml. Should I be changing something? |
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Michael GoetzVolunteer moderator
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I have a Gold 5120 but never really messes with app_info.xml. Should I be changing something?
Right now, that CPU is probably running LLR tasks at about 75% of its maximum speed. (It's the only one of your computers affected by this problem.)
You can either wait for us to have an updated LLR that corrects this problem, or you can use an older version of LLR via the anonymous platform mechanism.
The context is slightly different, but JimB wrote a tutorial on how to use anonymous platform to run the 3.8.23 version of LLR: https://www.primegrid.com/forum_thread.php?id=8591&nowrap=true#129555
However, .23 is now the stock app, and that's the one that's going to run at 75% speed. You want to download cllr64.3.8.21.exe instead of cllr64.4.8.23, as well as changing JimB's xml in kind.
The fix to LLR, by the way, will be to disable AVX-512 altogether. It's unlikely that AVX-512 is usable on that and similar CPUs.
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Can you add a new command line flag to the LLR app which disables AVX-512, and a log message to say something like "AVX-512 disabled", or do you not have that choice when you call the library function? |
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Michael GoetzVolunteer moderator
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Can you add a new command line flag to the LLR app which disables AVX-512, and a log message to say something like "AVX-512 disabled", or do you not have that choice when you call the library function?
It's been requested.
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As a workaround until the library implements the switch, would it be worthwhile to include both the current and older version of the library (with a new symbol name) in the executable so that you could make the switch effective by calling either the older library or the newer one? |
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As a workaround until the library implements the switch, would it be worthwhile to include both the current and older version of the library (with a new symbol name) in the executable so that you could make the switch effective by calling either the older library or the newer one?
I'm afraid this is the wrong place to ask this question. LLR isn't a program developed by PrimeGrid. You'll need to go over to Mersenneforum.com if you want to pursue that line of thought.
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As a workaround until the library implements the switch, would it be worthwhile to include both the current and older version of the library (with a new symbol name) in the executable so that you could make the switch effective by calling either the older library or the newer one?
I'm afraid this is the wrong place to ask this question. LLR isn't a program developed by PrimeGrid. You'll need to go over to Mersenneforum.com if you want to pursue that line of thought.
I was under the impression that sllr64.3.8.23 was something developed for PrimeGrid, which called the LLR library developed elsewhere. Accordingly I suggesting that this thing be changed to call 2 versions of the library. |
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As a workaround until the library implements the switch, would it be worthwhile to include both the current and older version of the library (with a new symbol name) in the executable so that you could make the switch effective by calling either the older library or the newer one?
I'm afraid this is the wrong place to ask this question. LLR isn't a program developed by PrimeGrid. You'll need to go over to Mersenneforum.com[sic] if you want to pursue that line of thought.
I was under the impression that sllr64.3.8.23 was something developed for PrimeGrid, which called the LLR library developed elsewhere. Accordingly I suggesting that this thing be changed to call 2 versions of the library.
You're mistaken.
LLR is developed by Jean Penne. He uses the gwnum libraries from Prime95, which is written by George Woltman. Neither of them are participants in PrimeGrid. If you want to discuss LLR development, Mersenneforum.org is the place to do so. (I mistakenly used .com before.)
If by "developed for PrimeGrid", you meant "developed by Jean at PrimeGrid's request", that's still not accurate. While it's true that we discovered the bug that lead to the fixing of that bug, it was a bug in Prime95 that needed to be fixed regardless of who found it. The same applies to whatever happens next to Prime95 and LLR with regards to the problem of single-unit AVX512 CPUs. We found the problem, but it's a global problem and not specific to PrimeGrid.
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I've run a small test to see how new Ryzen 3000 CPUs are performing with latest LLR version (3.8.23).
This is the total time required to process 48 WUs, with SMT disabled on all CPUs. So this results in almost perfect CPU load with a small exception in 7900X's case (8 WUs instead of 10 at the end of benchmark). Looks very promising for new AMD processors, FPU upgrade enables ~2x performance boost. Just in case anyone asks, Skylake-X are running at low clocks because of thermal issues. |
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Any idea what clock the stock 8700k was running at? From memory it is 4.3 all core turbo for non-AVX loads, and I don't know if AVX is lower.
LOL at "thermal issues". I think I hit 100+C when I was running PPSE on stock 7800X with AVX-512. So fast, but so hot... |
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Any idea what clock the stock 8700k was running at? From memory it is 4.3 all core turbo for non-AVX loads, and I don't know if AVX is lower.
Yes, it is lower. 8700K was running at 4,2-4,3 GHz for the first 30 seconds of PrimeGrid "crunching" but dropped back to ~3,8 GHz for the rest of calculations (ASUS Z370-A with default BIOS settings). |
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Does this mean the Ryzen 3000 are now comparable to Intel at FMA3? It is truly fixed now, and performs about the same as intel?
I notice the intel X processors are much faster, but I assume that is due to using AVX-512.
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The expectation is that FMA3 performance of Zen 2 is comparable to recent Intel consumer CPUs, if not limited elsewhere. I've installed my CPU and running tests on it now.
CPUs with two unit AVX-512 implementations have double the potential. This includes Skylake-X and some more expensive Xeons. CPUs with one unit AVX-512 implementations are not any better than FMA3 (lesser Xeons, current and future consumer CPUs). |
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Single AVX-512 unit CPUs perform worse using AVX-512 vs FMA3. I've got a Xeon Silver in a machine, and found better perf using FMA3 (and thus, have to use 3.8.21 LLR since 3.8.23 selects AVX-512 by default and you cannot force it not to.)
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The expectation is that FMA3 performance of Zen 2 is comparable to recent Intel consumer CPUs, if not limited elsewhere. I've installed my CPU and running tests on it now.
This is exactly what I am asking, and you are working on the answer. Sweet!
Also, thanks for doing this!
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Hi,
This is all very confusing. Can someone walk me through changing my PPS-DIV from using my 1x AVX-512 (75% CPU load) to the alternative method? I don't have a app_info.xml and only ever used App_config.xml |
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Hi,
This is all very confusing. Can someone walk me through changing my PPS-DIV from using my 1x AVX-512 (75% CPU load) to the alternative method? I don't have a app_info.xml and only ever used App_config.xml
Can I just plop this into a blank app_info.xml file?
<app_info>
<app>
<name>llrDIV</name>
<user_friendly_name>DIV (LLR)</user_friendly_name>
<fraction_done_exact>1</fraction_done_exact>
</app>
<file_info>
<name>primegrid_llr_wrapper_8.04_windows_x86_64.exe</name><executable/>
<name>llr.ini.6.07</name><executable/>
<name>cllr64.3.8.23.exe</name>
</file_info>
<app_version>
<app_name>llrDIV</app_name>
<version_num>801</version_num>
<api_version>6.12.43</api_version>
<file_ref>
<file_name>primegrid_llr_wrapper_8.01_windows_x86_64.exe</file_name>
<main_program/>
</file_ref>
<file_ref>
<file_name>cllr64.3.8.21.exe</file_name>
<open_name>primegrid_cllr.exe</open_name>
<copy_file/>
</file_ref>
<file_ref><file_name>llr.ini.6.07</file_name>
<open_name>llr.ini</open_name>
<copy_file/>
</file_ref>
</app_version>
</app_info>
Then, rename app_info and DIR file name llr_wrapper_8.00_windows_x86_64.exe to primegrid_llr_wrapper_8.00_windows_x86_64.exe |
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Michael GoetzVolunteer moderator
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App_info, unlike app_config, is for the WHOLE project. Every PrimeGrid app you're going to run has to be in that file.
IMPORTANT:
Turning app_info on or off, and perhaps modifying app_info, will erase all of your PrimeGrid tasks. Only make changes when your PrimeGrid queue is completely empty.
You need to make sure the three files (wrapper, LLR, and .ini) are in the www.primegrid.com directory.
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App_info, unlike app_config, is for the WHOLE project. Every PrimeGrid app you're going to run has to be in that file.
IMPORTANT:
Turning app_info on or off, and perhaps modifying app_info, will erase all of your PrimeGrid tasks. Only make changes when your PrimeGrid queue is completely empty.
You need to make sure the three files (wrapper, LLR, and .ini) are in the www.primegrid.com directory.
Got it. Where do I get wrapper, LLR, and .ini (3.8.21 LLR?)? When I fired up Boinc 3.8.23 just disappeared out of the DIR. |
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When I launch BOINC all my .exe's get deleted...? Nothing new is being downloaded.
<app_info>
<app>
<name>llrDIV</name>
<user_friendly_name>DIV (LLR)</user_friendly_name>
<fraction_done_exact>1</fraction_done_exact>
</app>
<file_info>
<name>llr_wrapper_8.04_windows_x86_64.exe</name>
<executable/>
<name>llr.ini.6.07</name>
<executable/>
<name>cllr64.3.8.21.exe</name>
</file_info>
<app_version>
<app_name>llrDIV</app_name>
<version_num>804</version_num>
<api_version>6.12.43</api_version>
<file_ref>
<file_name>llr_wrapper_8.04_windows_x86_64.exe</file_name>
<main_program/>
</file_ref>
<file_ref>
<file_name>cllr64.3.8.21.exe</file_name>
<open_name>primegrid_cllr.exe</open_name>
<copy_file/>
</file_ref>
<file_ref>
<file_name>llr.ini.6.07</file_name>
<open_name>llr.ini</open_name>
<copy_file/>
</file_ref>
</app_version>
</app_info>
Not sure what I'm doing wrong here. |
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Michael GoetzVolunteer moderator
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Download them from www.primegrid.com/download/
You want the 3.8.21 version of LLR.
I sometimes write protect the files so BOINC won't erase them.
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Download them from www.primegrid.com/download/
You want the 3.8.21 version of LLR.
I sometimes write protect the files so BOINC won't erase them.
I'll give that a try. Does everything else in the app_info.xml look good? |
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Michael GoetzVolunteer moderator
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Download them from www.primegrid.com/download/
You want the 3.8.21 version of LLR.
I sometimes write protect the files so BOINC won't erase them.
I'll give that a try. Does everything else in the app_info.xml look good?
I haven't done app_info in a while, so I may not catch everything. Let's see...
1) You can't put all three definitions in one block. You need three separate <file_Info> blocks.
Otherwise it looks good.
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Download them from www.primegrid.com/download/
You want the 3.8.21 version of LLR.
I sometimes write protect the files so BOINC won't erase them.
I'll give that a try. Does everything else in the app_info.xml look good?
I haven't done app_info in a while, so I may not catch everything. Let's see...
1) You can't put all three definitions in one block. You need three separate <file_Info> blocks.
Otherwise it looks good.
Write protecting the files did the trick! I'm at 100% CPU now, thanks! Can you delete my "Problems and Help" thread on the subject?
Sorry another question...
My AP GPU task is gone. Would this be correct?
<app>
<name>llrDIV</name>
<user_friendly_name>DIV (LLR)</user_friendly_name>
<fraction_done_exact>1</fraction_done_exact>
</app>
<app>
<name>ap26</name>
<user_friendly_name>AP27</user_friendly_name>
<fraction_done_exact>1</fraction_done_exact>
</app>
This should result in only DIV and Ap27 running right?
Also, now BOINC is not using the web prefs and has downloaded a bunch of DIV tasks and is running them single CPU. How do I configure the app_info.xml to use only 4 tasks at 7 CPU's each?
I dropped back in my app_config.xml with this:
<app>
<name>llrDIV</name>
<fraction_done_exact>1</fraction_done_exact>
<report_results_immediately>1</report_results_immediately>
<max_concurrent>4</max_concurrent>
</app>
<app_version>
<app_name>llrDIV</app_name>
<plan_class>mt</plan_class>
<cmdline>-t 7</cmdline>
</app_version>
It will run 4 tasks but at only 25% CPU load now...?
Figured that last part out but still wondering how to get AP27 running too. |
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Michael GoetzVolunteer moderator
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Sorry another question...
My AP GPU task is gone. Would this be correct?
<app>
<name>llrDIV</name>
<user_friendly_name>DIV (LLR)</user_friendly_name>
<fraction_done_exact>1</fraction_done_exact>
</app>
<app>
<name>ap26</name>
<user_friendly_name>AP27</user_friendly_name>
<fraction_done_exact>1</fraction_done_exact>
</app>
This should result in only DIV and Ap27 running right?
You also need the <app_version> and <file_info> blocks, and the app_version block will need the plan class.
Also, you may see some odd behavior unless you include the mt plan class on the LLR apps. Maybe. Not 100% sure about that.
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Sorry another question...
My AP GPU task is gone. Would this be correct?
<app>
<name>llrDIV</name>
<user_friendly_name>DIV (LLR)</user_friendly_name>
<fraction_done_exact>1</fraction_done_exact>
</app>
<app>
<name>ap26</name>
<user_friendly_name>AP27</user_friendly_name>
<fraction_done_exact>1</fraction_done_exact>
</app>
This should result in only DIV and Ap27 running right?
You also need the <app_version> and <file_info> blocks, and the app_version block will need the plan class.
Also, you may see some odd behavior unless you include the mt plan class on the LLR apps. Maybe. Not 100% sure about that.
Thanks for the help Michael! I've moved to a new help thread for this issue:
https://www.primegrid.com/forum_thread.php?id=8837#133509
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I am still struggling to understand the relationship of AVX-512 and tasks. It is clear that CPUs with only one AVX-512 performs much worse than those with two. Assuming I have a dual AVX-512 CPU, does that mean if I am running two tasks, each task is getting the equivalent of a single AVX-512 CPU? In other words, is it like CPU cores, and if you have double the tasks per core, you half the performance? Or can you have an infinite number of tasks running, and the AVX-512 performance stays constant? Or...?
____________
Reno, NV
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Michael GoetzVolunteer moderator
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I am still struggling to understand the relationship of AVX-512 and tasks. It is clear that CPUs with only one AVX-512 performs much worse than those with two. Assuming I have a dual AVX-512 CPU, does that mean if I am running two tasks, each task is getting the equivalent of a single AVX-512 CPU? In other words, is it like CPU cores, and if you have double the tasks per core, you half the performance? Or can you have an infinite number of tasks running, and the AVX-512 performance stays constant? Or...?
If you have a normal ("dual") AVX=512 CPU, just treat it like any other CPU. Every core has dual AVX-512 units.
If you have a crippled ("single") AVX-512, don't use AVX-512. Sadly, at this time that means you have to use app_info to run the older LLR that doesn't support AVX512.
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If you have a normal ("dual") AVX=512 CPU, just treat it like any other CPU. Every core has dual AVX-512 units.
Ah! It's per-core. Got it. Thanks!
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Reno, NV
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Speaking of AVX-512:
Hopefully comprehensive and accurate list of CPUs that support AVX-512:
The following lists include only Skylake SP and Skylake X CPUs. (Information for this list comes from Wickichip, Wickipedia, and Intel. The list may not be 100% accurate.)
This is the list of CPUs that fully support AVX-512:
Core i7-7000 X series
Core i7-9000 X series
Core i9-7000 X and XE series
Core i9-9000 X and XE series
Xeon W
Xeon Gold 5122 only
Xeon Gold 6000 series
Xeon Platinum
Xeon Phi 7200 series
If you have one of those, LLR is going to run faster.
Now the bad news. Intel pulled an AMD and on the mid and lower range Xeon CPUs included only one AVX512 execution unit per core instead of two, which really clobbers the AVX512 performance. The dual unit CPUs above perform great. The single unit Xeons below actually perform worse on AVX512 than with FMA3.
Xeon D
Xeon Bronze
Xeon Silver
Xeon Gold 5000 series (except Xeon Gold 5122)
Fortunately, there are not a lot of the single unit Xeons in use at PrimeGrid. That isn't much consolation if yours is one of them, however. At this time, the only remedy is to run the old 3.8.21 version of LLR using app_info.xml/anonymous platform. I'm optimistic that we'll be able to fix this, but it will have to wait at least until after the upcoming challenge.
With Cooper Lake out, could anyone test if these (all series or just 6000/8000) CPUs have AVX-512 support?
____________
SHSIDElectronicsGroup@outlook.com
waiting for a TdP prime...
Proth "SoB": 44243*2^440969+1
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With Cooper Lake out, could anyone test if these (all series or just 6000/8000) CPUs have AVX-512 support?
All Cooper Lake CPUs have 2 AVX-512 units, even the two 5000-series parts.
Don't expect to see many in the wild, it's not geared to be a cloud CPU and doesn't offer any more performance than Skylake-SP or Cascade Lake-SP outside of AI/NN-based stuff. It was a surprise that it was released publicly at all. Ice Lake is coming.
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Eating more cheese on Thursdays. |
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With Cooper Lake out, could anyone test if these (all series or just 6000/8000) CPUs have AVX-512 support?
All Cooper Lake CPUs have 2 AVX-512 units, even the two 5000-series parts.
Don't expect to see many in the wild, it's not geared to be a cloud CPU and doesn't offer any more performance than Skylake-SP or Cascade Lake-SP outside of AI/NN-based stuff. It was a surprise that it was released publicly at all. Ice Lake is coming.
Okay, thanks! The BP16 instruction set was added though, but PrimeGrid doesn't benefit much from it, if at all.
Ice lake... hmm is there going to be the same number of cores compared to Cooper/Cascade Lake?
Attached: Updated list
Hopefully comprehensive and accurate list of CPUs that support AVX-512:
Information for this list comes from Wikichip, Wickipedia, and Intel. The list may not be 100% accurate.
This is the list of CPUs that fully support AVX-512:
Core i7-7000 X series
Core i7-9000 X series
Core i9-7000 X and XE series
Core i9-9000 X and XE series
Core i9-10900 X and XE series
Xeon W series
Xeon Gold 5122
Xeon Gold 5300 series
Xeon Gold 6000 series
Xeon Platinum series
Xeon Phi 7200 series
If you have one of the above, LLR is going to run faster.
Now the bad news: Intel pulled an AMD and on the mid and lower range Xeon CPUs included only one AVX512 execution unit per core instead of two, which really clobbers the AVX512 performance. The dual unit CPUs above perform great. The single unit Xeons below actually perform worse on AVX512 than with FMA3.
Xeon D series
Xeon Bronze series
Xeon Silver series
Xeon Gold 5100 series (except 5122)
Xeon Gold 5200 series
Fortunately, there are not a lot of the single AVX512 unit Xeons in use at PrimeGrid. That isn't much consolation if yours is one of them, however. At this time, the only remedy is to run the old 3.8.21 version of LLR using app_info.xml/anonymous platform.
____________
SHSIDElectronicsGroup@outlook.com
waiting for a TdP prime...
Proth "SoB": 44243*2^440969+1
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Okay, thanks! The BP16 instruction set was added though, but PrimeGrid doesn't benefit much from it, if at all.
Ice lake... hmm is there going to be the same number of cores compared to Cooper/Cascade Lake?
You're welcome. Lower precision will likely never be of benefit to any of the PG apps, it has to be coded for specifically, and BF16 will probably be a Cooper Lake-exclusive, anyway.
(Most of this is rumor, of course) Icelake should increase the core count to 38 at maximum and have 8 channels of memory with 64 PCIe 4 lanes. It will only support 1 or 2 sockets.
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Eating more cheese on Thursdays. |
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