Message boards : Number crunching : Prime badge?

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Joined: 28 Feb 18
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Message 118362 - Posted: 3 Jun 2018 | 20:51:57 UTC

Why is there no 'prime finder' or 'double checker' badge?

I understand there is a Mega badge and a 'tour de primes' prime badge, but nothing for 'regular' primes

Any reason?

Thanx
____________

Tonight's lucky numbers are

555*2^3563328+1 (PPS-MEGA)

and

58523466^131072+1 (GFN-17 MEGA)

Michael Goetz
Volunteer moderator

Joined: 21 Jan 10
Posts: 14037
ID: 53948
Credit: 477,979,901
RAC: 339,285

Message 118363 - Posted: 3 Jun 2018 | 22:44:00 UTC - in response to Message 118362.

Why is there no 'prime finder' or 'double checker' badge?

I understand there is a Mega badge and a 'tour de primes' prime badge, but nothing for 'regular' primes

Any reason?

Thanx

It's been discussed over the years, and again at the beginning of the year when the new badge system was built, but after thinking about it we decided it would be a bad idea for two reasons:

1) It encourages people to go for small primes instead of large primes. That's the exact opposite of the project's goals. Finding a prime is by itself a significant motivator, and people certainly don't need additional encouragement.

2) Our experience with the prime badge during TdP is that it makes people hyper-competitive. That was to be expected, and not necessarily a bad thing, but we don't want it to be like that all year round.

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My lucky number is 75898524288+1

Joined: 28 Feb 18
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ID: 984171
Credit: 182,080,291
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Message 118449 - Posted: 7 Jun 2018 | 20:30:30 UTC - in response to Message 118363.

I understand point 1 (I think), tho I also think people can be put off by having a sense of 'I'm never going to find one' - If you check out the link below you can see that user Michal Vlasak has been 'searching' since 2007 for over 46M credits and doesn't show anything, nor does any user on that page. This is the page that I am currently 'at' in my searching. Also note the number of 0 RAC for many of the users here

http://www.primegrid.com/top_users.php?sort_by=total_credit&offset=2140

Point 2 - what's 'hyper-competitive'? - How can I be any more 'competitive' than downloading WU's and returning the results?

Again just my 2c

____________

Tonight's lucky numbers are

555*2^3563328+1 (PPS-MEGA)

and

58523466^131072+1 (GFN-17 MEGA)

mikey

Joined: 17 Mar 09
Posts: 1898
ID: 37043
Credit: 826,175,726
RAC: 611,088

Message 118452 - Posted: 7 Jun 2018 | 21:24:05 UTC - in response to Message 118449.

I understand point 1 (I think), tho I also think people can be put off by having a sense of 'I'm never going to find one' - If you check out the link below you can see that user Michal Vlasak has been 'searching' since 2007 for over 46M credits and doesn't show anything, nor does any user on that page. This is the page that I am currently 'at' in my searching. Also note the number of 0 RAC for many of the users here

http://www.primegrid.com/top_users.php?sort_by=total_credit&offset=2140

Point 2 - what's 'hyper-competitive'? - How can I be any more 'competitive' than downloading WU's and returning the results?

Again just my 2c

My personal opinion based on experience talking to others is that once the first result is returned people have aborted their own confirmation workunit. Meaning it could be a long time before the workunit is confirmed if the sub-project isn't a 'popular' one, some of the sub-projects have LOOOONG workunits!!

Joined: 28 Feb 18
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Credit: 182,080,291
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Message 118454 - Posted: 7 Jun 2018 | 22:01:23 UTC - in response to Message 118452.

So you are saying that people doing 'mega' WU's are checking to see if they are '1st' and when they aren't they abort the WU?

Who has the time to do that?

All the more reason to add the DC badge in my opinion and keep people on the DC track
____________

Tonight's lucky numbers are

555*2^3563328+1 (PPS-MEGA)

and

58523466^131072+1 (GFN-17 MEGA)

TheDawgz

Joined: 7 Jul 08
Posts: 2239
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Credit: 684,330,865
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Message 118456 - Posted: 7 Jun 2018 | 22:25:51 UTC - in response to Message 118449.

Michal Vlasak has been 'searching' since 2007 for over 46M credits and doesn't show anything, nor does any user on that page. This is the page that I am currently 'at' in my searching.
http://www.primegrid.com/top_users.php?sort_by=total_credit&offset=2140

Could be that that user is not "looking" for primes and prefers to rack up credit by sieving ....

That user has 46.570.969 total credit of which That user has 17.623.588 credit in PPS SIEVE (no primes found by sieving) and That user has 23.790.128 credit in PSA (bet it is mostly sieving.) and That user has 407.448 credit in GCW Sieve and That user has 28.252 credit in PSP Sieve and That user has 70.764 credit in TRP Sieve, leaving 4.650.789 credit in PRIME FINDING sub-projects

____________
There's someone in our head but it's not us.

Joined: 28 Feb 18
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Message 118457 - Posted: 7 Jun 2018 | 22:32:09 UTC - in response to Message 118456.

When you do analysis that may be true, but I'm not going to do that for every user on the page. What I see as a 'regular' user is that I have done 46M credits of work along with 19 other people on that page that have done the same over a period of over 10 years and there is nothing to show that anyone has found a prime.

As a layperson that looks 'depressing'.

It could be that if I analyse everybody on that page I might find that over half have indeed found a prime, and that might spur me on to keep searching, but who's going to search everyone?

Just my personal opinion

____________

Tonight's lucky numbers are

555*2^3563328+1 (PPS-MEGA)

and

58523466^131072+1 (GFN-17 MEGA)

Monkeydee
Volunteer tester

Joined: 8 Dec 13
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Message 118458 - Posted: 7 Jun 2018 | 22:40:19 UTC - in response to Message 118457.

It could be that if I analyse everybody on that page I might find that over half have indeed found a prime, and that might spur me on to keep searching, but who's going to search everyone?

Just my personal opinion

This is where the Top Prime Finders page on the left can come in handy. You can see every person that's found a prime, how many they've found as primary and DC, and how much credit they have.
____________
My Primes
Badge Score: 4*2 + 6*2 + 7*1 + 8*11 + 9*1 + 11*3 + 12*1 = 169

Joined: 28 Feb 18
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Message 118459 - Posted: 7 Jun 2018 | 22:48:22 UTC - in response to Message 118458.

Sure you can,

And it's only one click away (and a sort by credit).

So I will give up with asking anymore about a P or DC badge, tho it begs the question why are there ANY badges at all?

As for Point 2 (hyper competitive) - what is this???

____________

Tonight's lucky numbers are

555*2^3563328+1 (PPS-MEGA)

and

58523466^131072+1 (GFN-17 MEGA)

TheDawgz

Joined: 7 Jul 08
Posts: 2239
ID: 25193
Credit: 684,330,865
RAC: 161,089

Message 118460 - Posted: 7 Jun 2018 | 22:51:29 UTC - in response to Message 118457.

When you do analysis that may be true, but I'm not going to do that for every user on the page. What I see as a 'regular' user is that I have done 46M credits of work along with 19 other people on that page that have done the same over a period of over 10 years and there is nothing to show that anyone has found a prime.

But then again 12 of the 20 folks listed on that page don't appear to be actively working on PrimeGrid (based on the RAC's of 0, 1 and 4.)

But, I can see your point that there is no way to visually note (on the top participants page) who on any given page has found a prime.

____________
There's someone in our head but it's not us.

Joined: 28 Feb 18
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ID: 984171
Credit: 182,080,291
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Message 118461 - Posted: 7 Jun 2018 | 23:00:36 UTC - in response to Message 118460.

That's right Dawgz

And maybe those 12 'gave up' when they couldn't (easily) see that anyone had found a prime

It just seems a bit backward that 'we' show all the work that ISN'T primes and not the primes themselves (unless they are 'special', Mega, Konjecture etc.)
____________

Tonight's lucky numbers are

555*2^3563328+1 (PPS-MEGA)

and

58523466^131072+1 (GFN-17 MEGA)

Joined: 28 Feb 18
Posts: 284
ID: 984171
Credit: 182,080,291
RAC: 0

Message 118462 - Posted: 7 Jun 2018 | 23:08:57 UTC - in response to Message 118461.

Maybe 'we' could just add a column showing 'Prime score'? before the RAC column???
____________

Tonight's lucky numbers are

555*2^3563328+1 (PPS-MEGA)

and

58523466^131072+1 (GFN-17 MEGA)

Michael Goetz
Volunteer moderator

Joined: 21 Jan 10
Posts: 14037
ID: 53948
Credit: 477,979,901
RAC: 339,285

Message 118463 - Posted: 7 Jun 2018 | 23:41:53 UTC

Read the 2018 Tour de Primes thread if you want to understand what I mean by "hyper-competitive". It's the reason you can no longer see your wingmen until you've completed your task. You joined just as TdP was ending, but people who were here in February understand the problem. It wasn't that people were manually checking to make sure they were first. People were writing scripts to automate aborting tasks where they were not assured of being the prime finder.

With regards to "46 million credits and no primes":

It's REALLY hard to find a large prime. It takes a whole lot of effort and/or a whole lot of luck.

Small primes (SGS/PPSE/GFN-15) only take a moderate amount of luck and effort. With a single modern computer it shouldn't take more than a month to find one of the small primes.

People with lots of credit and few or no primes usually are more interested in credit than primes, and were sieving. That's their choice. Or they're looking for large primes. A billion credits and 0 primes is totally reasonable if all you're running is GFN-22.

The bottom line, and the most important concept here, is that we want to encourage people to run the projects that test the larger numbers, not the smaller numbers. That's why there won't be a "prime badge". (You may be surprised to hear that I actually suggested a "prime badge" a couple of years ago. I was talked out of it for this reason.)

____________
My lucky number is 75898524288+1

Message boards : Number crunching : Prime badge?