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Message boards : General discussion : Linux 14% faster than Win for SGS

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River~~
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Joined: 17 Mar 07
Posts: 342
ID: 6533
Credit: 15,792,075
RAC: 0
321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (124,889)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (200,779)ESP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (112,791)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (106,156)PPS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,358,025)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (150,832)SoB LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (573,744)SR5 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (500,731)SGS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (479,282)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (328,373)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (119,260)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,061,082)PPS Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (326,987)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (174,708)TRP Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (505,558)AP 26/27 Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (598,364)GFN Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,066,295)
Message 104510 - Posted: 2 Feb 2017 | 7:00:08 UTC
Last modified: 2 Feb 2017 | 7:25:42 UTC

hi all
I thought I would test Linux vs Win on one of my dual boot machines. It is a recent laptop which came with Win 10, and I have added LinuxMint 18.1 as dual boot. Both OS's are the latest versions, so it is a fair comparison.

The results returned on 1st Feb and on 2nd Feb up to 0700 UTC were all run singly (ie with BOINC set to use 1% of CPUs)

Linux Host & Recent results

Win10 Host & Recent results

EDIT: the very next task returned after I posted this is a counter example, running on Win10 with duration better than some of the Linux tasks... maybe there is natural variation in the runtimes of SGS and the Win10 tasks were a naturally longer-running batch?

But then Win10 reverted to form.

If THIS can run in 910 sec, why does THAT and the OTHER take more like 1040 sec ???

I will allow Win10 to run a bit longer... but looks like Linux is the much better bet (at least on this laptop)


R~~
____________
My computers found:

9831*21441403+1 is a quadhectokilo prime prime, ie >400,000 digits ;)

252031090528237591 + 65521*149*23*19*17*13*11*7*5*3*2*n is prime for every n in { 0..20 } (an arithemtic progression of 21 primes)

mackerelProject donor
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Discovered 6 mega primesEliminated 1 conjecture "k"Found 3 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 5 primes in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 6 primes in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 5 primes in the 2021 Tour de Primes321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,774,878)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,903,451)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,207,880)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,122,074)PPS LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (102,328,951)PSP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (16,676,406)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,019,367)SR5 LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (25,605,231)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,360,621)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (34,130)TRP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (21,424,369)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,171,820)321 Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,236,219)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,383,853)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,626,419)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (76,969,144)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,293,882)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,012,757)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (21,918,894)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (77,695,028)WW Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (34,040,000)PSA Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,939,755)
Message 104514 - Posted: 2 Feb 2017 | 9:24:46 UTC - in response to Message 104510.

SGS has minimal variation over short periods, even longer ones, so unit times should be comparable. In my previous testing I haven't seen any difference in speeds due to OS type so I stuck with Windows.

I wonder if it is maybe something to do with power management. Maybe Windows is being more aggressive with controlling power. Run something like CPU-z or hwinfo64 and see what clocks are doing while it is running. The "fast" unit under Windows may be because something else was running at the same time, kicking up the power levels for example.

Another thing I found before was running 2 of 4 with HT on can slow things around 10%. If you use task manager to set boinc.exe affinity to either just odd or just even numbered threads and try again, see if you get an improvement. Alternatively, just turn off HT in bios. It may be that your version of linux does a better job of managing that out of the box. I have certainly seen the same problems in the past.

A final thought: Windows (especially 8.x + 10) is notorious for running background processes. Combined with HT, this can drag unit times down. In this case, either wait until all background processes have stopped, or again disable HT. While wall clock time will still increase, the logged CPU time will be comparable to the case without other tasks getting in the way.

puh32
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Discovered 1 mega primeFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de Primes321 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,845,668)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,664,434)ESP LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (697,397)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (368,692)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (9,093,103)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,404,131)SoB LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,412,731)SR5 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,010,301)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,101,955)TRP LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (905,912)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,904,559)AP 26/27 Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,816,467)GFN Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (110,953,210)WW Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (40,500,000)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (13,880,025)
Message 104516 - Posted: 2 Feb 2017 | 10:12:46 UTC - in response to Message 104514.

I speculate:

You have both a virus protection program and a malware protection program running in the background (Windows). That's at least what I have.

You have neither of those on your Linux machine. At least I don't.


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Eliminated 1 conjecture "k"Found 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2021 Tour de Primes321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (229,492)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (110,733)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,335,374)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (104,385)SoB LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (106,117)SR5 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (139,802)SGS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,325,207)TRP LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (626,755)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (122,944)321 Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (104,900)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,000,599)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (515,556)PPS Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,872,830)TRP Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (255,612)AP 26/27 Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,583,960)GFN Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (23,334,026)WW Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,088,000)PSA Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,522,050)
Message 104517 - Posted: 2 Feb 2017 | 10:16:00 UTC - in response to Message 104516.
Last modified: 2 Feb 2017 | 10:16:21 UTC

Make 100 WU under Linux and make 100WU under windows, , take average time, and then claim what OS is it faster and is faster at all. One WU doesnot prove anything.
____________
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River~~
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Joined: 17 Mar 07
Posts: 342
ID: 6533
Credit: 15,792,075
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321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (124,889)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (200,779)ESP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (112,791)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (106,156)PPS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,358,025)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (150,832)SoB LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (573,744)SR5 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (500,731)SGS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (479,282)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (328,373)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (119,260)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,061,082)PPS Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (326,987)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (174,708)TRP Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (505,558)AP 26/27 Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (598,364)GFN Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,066,295)
Message 104519 - Posted: 2 Feb 2017 | 11:16:07 UTC - in response to Message 104516.

Make 100 WU under Linux and make 100WU under windows, , take average time, and then claim what OS is it faster and is faster at all. One WU doesnot prove anything.


Look at the lists I linked. I gave some spot examples, but there are many more tasks in those lists that fall into the pattern I described, and only one outlying counter example.

It is a few hours on each machine at about three tasks per hour.

OK, it is not a hundred tasks, but it is a dozen or so, and apart from the one lucky windows task the times are well clustered. I haven't calculated the standard deviations, or plotted them on a graph, but the numbers look convincing to me.

I speculate:

You have both a virus protection program and a malware protection program running in the background (Windows). That's at least what I have.

You have neither of those on your Linux machine. At least I don't.


good guesses, and one more piece of evidence. I had just restarted networking before the exceptionally fast task. My best speculation is that it was some background task that took 20mins or so to reconnect. Was that Windows bloatware, or some kind of malware? Actually I do not care; whatever the reason the easiest cure from where I sit is to use Linux

I am not going to put any more effort into this, and have already rebooted back to Linux on that laptop.


____________
My computers found:

9831*21441403+1 is a quadhectokilo prime prime, ie >400,000 digits ;)

252031090528237591 + 65521*149*23*19*17*13*11*7*5*3*2*n is prime for every n in { 0..20 } (an arithemtic progression of 21 primes)

RaymondFO*
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Joined: 19 Dec 12
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Credit: 2,348,551,493
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Discovered 2 mega primesEliminated 1 conjecture "k"Discovered 1 Fermat divisor321 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,209,314)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,370,196)ESP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,225,783)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,520,529)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,123,160)PSP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,690,202)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (24,593,987)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,069,479)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,816,995)TRP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,734,514)Woodall LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,186,824)321 Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,017,174)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,186,478)PPS Sieve Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (588,974,378)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,447,461)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,892,965)AP 26/27 Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (135,197,920)GFN Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (969,254,133)WW Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (502,040,000)
Message 104538 - Posted: 3 Feb 2017 | 3:05:31 UTC - in response to Message 104519.
Last modified: 3 Feb 2017 | 3:09:53 UTC

As of this writing and assuming all "Completed, waiting for validation" tasks will validate at 39.91 points per completed task, the Ubuntu OS, completed 105 tasks averaging 15.66882 minutes or 940.1293 seconds. The Windows 10 OS completed 28 tasks averaging 17.85223 minutes or 1,071.13 seconds.

The Ubuntu computer did have four tasks where the run times were significantly longer than either Ubuntu or Windows 10 with run times at 2,259.39, 2,298.18, 2,279.64, 2,331.29 and 2,319.41 seconds. It it unknown if these tasks were prime numbers which could increase the tasks run times.

Run times used above are defined as "run time" and not "CPU time".

River~~
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Joined: 17 Mar 07
Posts: 342
ID: 6533
Credit: 15,792,075
RAC: 0
321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (124,889)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (200,779)ESP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (112,791)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (106,156)PPS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,358,025)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (150,832)SoB LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (573,744)SR5 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (500,731)SGS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (479,282)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (328,373)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (119,260)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,061,082)PPS Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (326,987)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (174,708)TRP Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (505,558)AP 26/27 Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (598,364)GFN Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,066,295)
Message 104542 - Posted: 3 Feb 2017 | 6:53:32 UTC - in response to Message 104538.
Last modified: 3 Feb 2017 | 7:30:24 UTC

hi Raymond


Run times used above are defined as "run time" and not "CPU time".


The difference between run time and cpu time is that

- "run time" means the time for which the BOINC scheduler tells the OS that the task is runnable and is calculated by BOINC

- "CPU time" means the time for which the OS has actually scheduled the task to be running in a specified CPU core

Clearly the run time always exceeds the CPU time. The difference tells you how much time the kernel was ignoring the BOINC request to run the task because the kernel had a higher priority task to run. (Almost all nonBOINC tasks are higher priority than BOINC)

What I was interested in when I made the OP is that the CPU times are varying between Win and Lin. That is more surprising (to me at least) than finding that the run times vary between platforms. I would expect that platform dependent delays were not reported as CPU time. That expectation might prove to be naive.

What is helpful from your statistics is that it offers a further example of the differences. In whole number percentages, you are seeing the same 14% difference.

Mackerel may be right to suggest it is an issue with background tasks -- I have seen this before with Win 8.1 but not noticed it with Win 10.

It would be really helpful if someone with a Win 7 / Linux dual boot box could post similar stats.

R~~

EDIT removed stuff that is relevant to another issue -- had a senior moment and forgot which topic I was responding to
____________
My computers found:

9831*21441403+1 is a quadhectokilo prime prime, ie >400,000 digits ;)

252031090528237591 + 65521*149*23*19*17*13*11*7*5*3*2*n is prime for every n in { 0..20 } (an arithemtic progression of 21 primes)

RaymondFO*
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Joined: 19 Dec 12
Posts: 17
ID: 185653
Credit: 2,348,551,493
RAC: 0
Discovered 2 mega primesEliminated 1 conjecture "k"Discovered 1 Fermat divisor321 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,209,314)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,370,196)ESP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,225,783)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,520,529)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,123,160)PSP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,690,202)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (24,593,987)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,069,479)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,816,995)TRP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,734,514)Woodall LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,186,824)321 Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,017,174)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,186,478)PPS Sieve Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (588,974,378)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,447,461)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,892,965)AP 26/27 Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (135,197,920)GFN Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (969,254,133)WW Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (502,040,000)
Message 104570 - Posted: 3 Feb 2017 | 16:24:29 UTC - in response to Message 104542.

I can easily post the CPU time results as well. I use the run-time clock measurement since that accurately tells me how fast a task is submitted back to the project as that timing issue could be the difference between being a "prime finder" or a "double-checker". I do use the CPU time as a ratio to the run-time clock to determine the overall efficiency of each computer's ability to process a given CPU task.

I could do a comparison of Windows 8.1 / Ubuntu 16.04 dual boot box and post similar stats. Let me know if you are interested.

River~~
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Joined: 17 Mar 07
Posts: 342
ID: 6533
Credit: 15,792,075
RAC: 0
321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (124,889)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (200,779)ESP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (112,791)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (106,156)PPS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,358,025)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (150,832)SoB LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (573,744)SR5 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (500,731)SGS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (479,282)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (328,373)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (119,260)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,061,082)PPS Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (326,987)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (174,708)TRP Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (505,558)AP 26/27 Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (598,364)GFN Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,066,295)
Message 104630 - Posted: 4 Feb 2017 | 19:32:23 UTC - in response to Message 104570.

I use the run-time clock measurement since that accurately tells me how fast a task is submitted back to the project as that timing issue could be the difference between being a "prime finder" or a "double-checker".


this is a common belief but it is not so. What you are wanting to measure is called the turnround, and does not appear on the same page as the cpu and run times. You can calculate it by subracting the date/time the work was sent from the time it was returned (in Excel or the Libre Office equivalent subracting two dates&times gives you the number of days as a decimal, so 3 hours would be 0.125.

There is a relationship, in that turnround can never be faster than run time -- so it gives you a kind of bet case picture of how fast you might return work on a good day, when the network is behaving and the PG server too. But irun time s a limiting figure, not a reliable measure of the turnround.

----

In more detail (and feel free to skip this if it looks too long)

1) For your task to actually be doing maths, three things need to be true simultaneously. You need the OS to have scheduled you into a core (real or virtual), you need the memory contents for the next instruction (data and code) to be in the adjacent L1 cache, and if HT is enabled you need the CPU to have allocated you to run rather than the other virtual core.

2. This means you continue to clock up cpu time while waiting for the cache to fill, and while waiting for the your paired virtual core to be prempted.

3. At times, the operating system will decide to pre-empt you from a core altogether. Then you are accumulating run time, but not cpu time.

4. At other times, the BOINC client will decide to pre-empt you. Then you stop accumulating run time as well, but the clock on the wall, and in the PG server go on running

5. You may have completed a task but cannot upload it, or report it, because of a network issue.

6. You may have been issued a task, then between issue and downoad the network goes down. That task may become a non-runnable ghost; but if it does successfully download later, all the time while you were waiting for the download is still part of your turnround. The wing-op may already be crunching.

7. You may also stop boinc runing altogether, reboot, or leave the machine powered down deliberately or by mistake - again this extends the turnround time but is not logged as run time.


So what IS run time useful for then? The difference between run time and cpu time is a goo indicator of how successful the OS has been in making sure your task runs whenever BOINC wanted it to run.


I personally have seen enough to convince me not to use Windows for this TdP. Feel free to post more stats if you think others will find them useful.

R~~


____________
My computers found:

9831*21441403+1 is a quadhectokilo prime prime, ie >400,000 digits ;)

252031090528237591 + 65521*149*23*19*17*13*11*7*5*3*2*n is prime for every n in { 0..20 } (an arithemtic progression of 21 primes)

Message boards : General discussion : Linux 14% faster than Win for SGS

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