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Message boards : Project Staging Area : BOINC vs PRPNet

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Profile Michael GoetzProject donor
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The "Shut up already!" badge:  This loud mouth has mansplained on the forums over 10 thousand times!  Sheesh!!!Discovered the World's First GFN-19 prime!!!Discovered 1 mega primeFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2020 Tour de Primes321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,822,730)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,005,249)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,009,577)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,145,754)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (15,133,009)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,197,957)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (34,291,181)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,007,110)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,276,330)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,084,329)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,195,123)321 Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,061,196)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,170,256)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,059,304)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,885,121)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,118,303)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (74,408,155)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,445,029)
Message 77726 - Posted: 30 Jun 2014 | 1:24:45 UTC

A topic for discussion.

Recently, there's been some discussion about moving several more PRPNet ports over to BOINC.

There's a few reasons for doing this:

1) Double checking. While PRPNet supports double checking, we're not familiar with it, and we've invested a lot of effort in making the matching logic of our BOINC validator properly handle all sorts of interesting scenarios that come up. While I'm sure PRPNet handles double checking well, it's a certainty it doesn't do it exactly the way we want to do it.

2) Massively greater participation. This needs no explanation.

3) Individual badges and stats, rather than being lumped into a single PSA badge.


And a few reasons NOT to:

1) You have more control over PRPNet.

2) Support for PFGW.

3) On GFN, the ability to automatically switch between the GPU Genefer, the CPU Genefer, and PFGW


The most recent cause for having this discussion was when a faulty computer "found" 9 primes on the 27121 project in the course of a week. They were, of course, all errors.

We discussed the possibility of moving GCW, 27, 121, and some or all of the GFN ports to BOINC. MEGA we wouldn't move because it's winding down. Primorial and Factorial use PFGW which isn't (currently) supported on BOINC, although we could add the support if we wanted to. WWWW also isn't supported, but it currently has no good way of double checking results.

At this point this is only a discussion, but I'd like to know what people think.

____________
My lucky number is 75898524288+1

Usucapio LibertatisProject donor
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Discovered 1 mega prime2012 Tour de Primes highest prime scoreFound 2 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2020 Tour de Primes321 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (14,136,498)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,622,415)ESP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,461,313)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,005,831)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,444,287)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,414,623)SoB LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,923,258)SR5 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,716,765)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,389,989)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,099,308)Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,375,769)321 Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,106,124)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,449,019)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,388,253)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (343,244,386)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,072,601)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,441,257)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (21,294,481)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (51,168,558)PSA Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (79,952,619)
Message 77728 - Posted: 30 Jun 2014 | 1:49:36 UTC - in response to Message 77726.
Last modified: 30 Jun 2014 | 1:50:35 UTC

According to the opening thread of PSA, "The PSA was created to research, test, and prepare future projects for PrimeGrid BOINC".

If a project is mature enough to be run on BOINC, i.e, if it has been tested enough on all platforms, it's a long term project and there are no cons to move it to BOINC (like the ones Michael mentioned), I vote for moving it.

On the pros side, it would save you some work with manual credit conversion.

Current BOINC sub-projects could suffer a bit from dispersion, though. But the sub-projects searching for smaller primes would not get (too) hurt, so there's no risk of PPS_E starting to produce primes out of the top 5000 (or, if it did, a PPS_Low could always be reopened on the PRPNet side).
____________
676754^262144+1 is prime

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Found 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de Primes321 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,310,491)Cullen LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,065,659)ESP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,875,010)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,216,209)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,182,579)PSP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,323,642)SoB LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,603,584)SR5 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,891,772)SGS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,163,706)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,832,495)Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,323,182)321 Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,432,077)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,967,439)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,137,451)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (266,244,640)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (627,444)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,956,401)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (15,856,233)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (64,937,531)PSA Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (87,901,787)
Message 77749 - Posted: 30 Jun 2014 | 16:47:53 UTC - in response to Message 77728.
Last modified: 30 Jun 2014 | 16:48:09 UTC

According to the opening thread of PSA, "The PSA was created to research, test, and prepare future projects for PrimeGrid BOINC".


thumbup +1 !!

If a project is "production stable" move it to boinc.
It is a misery for the (my) statistics but this is NOT a pro argument.
____________
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my current lucky number: 3749*2^1555697+1
PSA-PRPNet-Stats-URL: http://u-g-f.de/PRPNet/

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321 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,043,076)Cullen LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (14,228,684)ESP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,115,673)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,124,061)PPS LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (54,965,047)PSP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (15,265,824)SoB LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,053,795)SR5 LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,710,959)SGS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,404,749)TRP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,743,624)Woodall LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (21,804,003)321 Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (200,220)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,710,149)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,061,184)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (57,182,910)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,251,279)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,572,416)AP 26/27 Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (543,507)GFN Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (21,199,917)PSA Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (248,258,813)
Message 77754 - Posted: 30 Jun 2014 | 18:17:02 UTC

TheDawgz are all for migrating PRPNet projects to BOINC - our #1 rationale (as always) is:

1) Double checking.

To poorly paraphrase Tom Lehrer's LOBACHEVSKY

"Double-check,
Let no single result evade your eyes,
Remember why the good Lord made your eyes,
So don't shade your eyes,
But Double-check, Double-check, Double-check -
Only be sure always to call it 'good research'."
____________
There's someone in our head but it's not us.

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Discovered 1 mega primeEliminated 1 conjecture "k"Discovered 1 twin prime321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,014,405)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,734,854)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,421,149)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,576,209)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (17,389,837)PSP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,425,342)SoB LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,986,628)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,248,659)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,878,856)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,416,106)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,400,237)321 Sieve Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,000,576)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,000,977)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,843,367)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (78,673,438)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,473,750)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,243,608)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,755,127)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (202,192,765)PSA Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,042,125)
Message 77755 - Posted: 30 Jun 2014 | 18:25:16 UTC

I also agree, bringing the ones with the ability over is a fine idea.

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Discovered 7 mega primesEliminated 4 conjecture "k"sFound 2 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de Primes Mountain Stage2019 Tour de Primes largest primeFound 4 primes in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de Primes Mountain StageFound 1 prime in the 2020 Tour de Primes321 LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (74,809,416)Cullen LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,296,190)ESP LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,853,190)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,309,119)PPS LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (121,031,862)PSP LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,563,867)SoB LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (101,502,109)SR5 LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (101,883,529)SGS LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (53,154,727)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (43,033)TRP LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (100,338,924)Woodall LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,956,094)321 Sieve Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (115,948,450)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,142,109)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,504,945)PPS Sieve Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (513,057,580)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,288,222)TRP Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,149,354)AP 26/27 Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (232,724,773)GFN Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (734,262,141)PSA Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (535,232,795)
Message 77756 - Posted: 30 Jun 2014 | 18:53:17 UTC
Last modified: 30 Jun 2014 | 18:55:36 UTC

6 years ago, we migrated from LLRNet to PRPNet.
It's time to move GCW, 27, 121 over to BOINC.


Would be convenient to leave some GFN ports on PRPNet. PRPNet is handy when it comes to GFN, namely on GPU/CPU b limits.

PRPNet doesn't need installing, can be run without administrator privilege, can be easily moved from one host to another etc. Yes, more control.

Some short-lived subproject can be run on PRPNet (those that would be short-lived on BOINC like GFN/GCW sieving).

It is also good testing ground for new apps.

So keep PRPNet limited but alive.
____________
My stats
Badge score: 1*1 + 5*1 + 8*3 + 9*11 + 10*1 + 11*1 + 12*3 = 186

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Discovered 1 mega primeEliminated 2 conjecture "k"s321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,306,247)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,756,791)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,917,101)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,688,089)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (16,597,352)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,488,430)SoB LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,275,142)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,517,371)SGS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (13,536,986)TRP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,513,978)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,452,373)321 Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (246,534)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,474,263)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (25,971,807)PPS Sieve Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (120,732,256)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,557,924)TRP Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,896,883)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (13,596,609)GFN Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (160,216,125)PSA Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,367,890)
Message 77789 - Posted: 1 Jul 2014 | 22:24:34 UTC

It certainly looks like the vast majority of crunchers have no interest whatsoever in trying to run PRPNet tasks.. - There appeared to be little-or-no takers for my PRPNet for Dummies editor during the last PRPNet challenge!

I'm a great believer in Maximum Diversity, so I'm all for moving as much as possible to Where the Crunchers Are, keeping PRPNet for initial development of experimental code and short-term stuff (like edges of Genefer boundaries).

I would also encourage our Volunteer Developers to do all they can to open as many projects to as many different platforms (CPU AND GPU) as possible - REGARDLESS of whether it's 'computationally efficient' or not!

When I hear of 'embryo' ports of projects to a GPU platform being abandoned because they are 'barely faster than a CPU core', I get very upset, because just about every super-efficient modern algorithm started out as a pile of inefficient, buggy code, ridiculed by all but one dedicated programmer with a dream, and a lot of midnight oil to burn!

The trick is to put faith in the "Build it and they will come.." method of developing efficient code...

Would the new faster versions of OCL code have ever happened if we had taken the attitude that we might as well dump OCL altogether in favour of the (previously) much faster CUDA code??

( I continue to shed a daily tear for the demise of our stillborn Android app.. ) :-(

____________

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Discovered 1 mega prime321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,893,273)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,440,687)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,738,876)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,292,626)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (9,648,951)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,653,927)SoB LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,558,341)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,748,705)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,335,713)TRP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,602,818)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,282,622)321 Sieve Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (740,566)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (59,788,598)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,143,068)PPS Sieve Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (524,673,938)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,130,821)TRP Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,074,710)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (43,842,888)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (224,648,943)PSA Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (62,378,755)
Message 77794 - Posted: 2 Jul 2014 | 2:59:32 UTC

I favor moving mature PRPnet projects that are running well to BOINC, as long as the BOINC platform supports, of course.

Don't shut down PRPnet completely. I fear it would die of "bit rot" if that were to happen. It's certainly easier to test new s/w there, though BOINC has the big advantage of the double-check. Keep options open.

--Gary
____________
"I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together"

87*2^3496188+1 is prime! (1052460 digits)
4 is not prime! (1 digit)

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Found 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de Primes321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,037,982)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,015,907)ESP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,232,391)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,088,705)PPS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,962,062)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,539,644)SoB LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,122,524)SR5 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,238,295)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,587,016)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,125,391)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,037,732)321 Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,190,731)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (207,387)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,049,697)PPS Sieve Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (100,422,123)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,227,972)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,021,659)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,651,644)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (57,918,585)PSA Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (43,298,465)
Message 77818 - Posted: 3 Jul 2014 | 11:52:11 UTC

We'll be down to four PRPNet ports because we would have promoted the others to BOINC, (except for MEGA which will have reached the end of its reserved range).
That's all cool because they will get increased computing resources on BOINC.

What about expanding the list of prime searches for ones that BOINC has trouble with, such as Compositorial, Wilson, Wolstenholme and Generalized Wieferich primes? rogue has already done some of the ground work for this with wwww.exe and wwwwcl.exe.
____________

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The "Shut up already!" badge:  This loud mouth has mansplained on the forums over 10 thousand times!  Sheesh!!!Discovered the World's First GFN-19 prime!!!Discovered 1 mega primeFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2020 Tour de Primes321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,822,730)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,005,249)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,009,577)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,145,754)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (15,133,009)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,197,957)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (34,291,181)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,007,110)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,276,330)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,084,329)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,195,123)321 Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,061,196)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,170,256)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,059,304)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,885,121)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,118,303)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (74,408,155)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,445,029)
Message 77820 - Posted: 3 Jul 2014 | 12:43:54 UTC - in response to Message 77818.

We'll be down to four PRPNet ports because we would have promoted the others to BOINC, (except for MEGA which will have reached the end of its reserved range).
That's all cool because they will get increased computing resources on BOINC.

What about expanding the list of prime searches for ones that BOINC has trouble with, such as Compositorial, Wilson, Wolstenholme and Generalized Wieferich primes? rogue has already done some of the ground work for this with wwww.exe and wwwwcl.exe.


Lack of double checking would be a concern, so if we start new projects on PRPNet we'd want to start them with DC turned on.
____________
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Message 77823 - Posted: 3 Jul 2014 | 17:40:27 UTC

IMO, the 27 and 121 projects should be retired at some point. There is nothing special about those k and PPS already does them.

Before the Wieferich or Wall-Sun-Sun searches can be moved to BOINC, wwww/wwwwcl needs to create some value that can be double-checked. Although I won't undertake the effort to make the software changes to support BOINC, I can certainly help other enterprising developers devise a way to build double-checking into it.

Don't get me wrong, PRPNet is good software and I highly appreciate everything PrimeGrid has done to promote it, but it was never intended to compete head-to-head with BOINC so I understand the desire to move some projects off of it.

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Message 77825 - Posted: 3 Jul 2014 | 18:21:52 UTC - in response to Message 77823.

IMO, the 27 and 121 projects should be retired at some point. There is nothing special about those k and...


We were discussing that yesterday. My understanding is that 27121 was a mega-prime search project, started elsewhere, that PrimeGrid took over at some point. We've got two other projects specifically designed for finding mega-primes, MEGA (which will be ending), and 321. In addition, both the SR5 and ESP projects are well suited for finding mega primes right now.

Shutting it down, rather than moving it, might make more sense, but we definitely would want to hear people's opinions on that.

... PPS already does them.


On the +1 side, yes. Not on the -1 side.

In the past, the BOINC servers were expensive and much, much less capable than they are now. We're now able to pretty easily support a lot of sub projects.

In the past it was easier to add projects to PRPNet, and capacity was easier to come by there, partly because far fewer people would be using PRPNet than BOINC.

That's changed, and we can add new projects to BOINC a lot more easily, and capacity isn't a problem at the moment. Especially if the software already runs on BOINC, moving the project over is reasonably straightforward.
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Discovered the World's First base 116 Generalized Cullen prime!!!Discovered 25 mega primesEliminated 7 conjecture "k"sDiscovered 1 Sophie Germain pairDiscovered 2 Fermat divisors2012 Tour de Primes highest prime count2012 Tour de Primes most Mountain Stage primes2015 Tour de Primes highest prime count2016 Tour de Primes highest prime countFound 23 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2018 Tour de Primes Mountain Stage2019 Tour de Primes highest prime countFound 22 primes in the 2019 Tour de Primes2020 Tour de Primes highest prime scoreFound 21 primes in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 4 mega primes in the 2020 Tour de Primes321 LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (176,151,853)Cullen LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (103,870,990)ESP LLR Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (203,249,784)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (109,580,172)PPS LLR Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (635,688,562)PSP LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (126,982,721)SoB LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (135,747,083)SR5 LLR Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (214,194,272)SGS LLR Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (200,463,636)TPS LLR (retired) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (235,439)TRP LLR Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (201,215,056)Woodall LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (101,447,725)321 Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (235,451,253)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (83,794,448)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (285,139,652)PPS Sieve Double Ruby: Earned 2,000,000,000 credits (2,642,581,716)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (203,523,358)TRP Sieve (suspended) Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (201,489,157)AP 26/27 Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (369,500,391)GFN Double Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000,000 credits (1,868,957,771)PSA Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (259,058,048)
Message 77826 - Posted: 3 Jul 2014 | 18:56:11 UTC

I am torn in this issue. On the one hand, there are projects that could really benefit greatly from the BOINC user base (e.g., GFN65536) really being able to push those projects. On the other hand, having the flexibility to run from the command line is really, really nice!!!

One thing that has not been mentioned is the issue of BOINC venues. In my own case, I often am running combinations of BOINC PG work and PRPnet work to balance out the fact that I have more CPU/GPU combinations than can be handled on BOINC (which only has four venues). While the possible elimination of the CUDA GFN app in favor of a faster OpenCL app across all GPUs will reduce this issue somewhat, adding more projects from PRPnet to BOINC will likely exacerbate it. For example, I have a few older machines that do very poorly with LLR work, but run the smaller GFN work quite well (since all that work is now using the 80-bit x87 application only). If those projects move to BOINC, I simply will not have enough venues to go around to keep them at PG. I will either shut them down or move them to another BOINC project (e.g., Collatz, etc.). Thus, eliminating too many of PRPnet's projects might result in a (perhaps small) net loss of computing from PG.

I am also concerned how the myriad of GFN projects will be handled if all moved to BOINC (WR is mostly GPU only, current small work can be done on GPU or CPU, GFN524288 work is not long before being beyond GPU b limits even with only the PRPnet effort, and GFN262144, GFN65536, and GFN32768 are CPU only). Running different combinations of GFN work alone might be awkward with having only the 4 BOINC venues.

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Message 77827 - Posted: 3 Jul 2014 | 19:08:20 UTC - in response to Message 77825.

We were discussing that yesterday. My understanding is that 27121 was a mega-prime search project, started elsewhere, that PrimeGrid took over at some point. We've got two other projects specifically designed for finding mega-primes, MEGA (which will be ending), and 321. In addition, both the SR5 and ESP projects are well suited for finding mega primes right now.

Shutting it down, rather than moving it, might make more sense, but we definitely would want to hear people's opinions on that.

... PPS already does them.


On the +1 side, yes. Not on the -1 side..


I would shut down the -1 side as soon as it meets some predefined limit (5M for 27- and 6M for 121-) then roll the +1 side into PPS. I understand that not all k in PPS will yield mega-primes for some times (probably years), but those for k < 100 should get there this year.

You might want to consider a drive on PRPNet for 27- and 121- to get to to those limits so that you don't have to move them.

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The "Shut up already!" badge:  This loud mouth has mansplained on the forums over 10 thousand times!  Sheesh!!!Discovered the World's First GFN-19 prime!!!Discovered 1 mega primeFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2020 Tour de Primes321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,822,730)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,005,249)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,009,577)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,145,754)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (15,133,009)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,197,957)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (34,291,181)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,007,110)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,276,330)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,084,329)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,195,123)321 Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,061,196)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,170,256)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,059,304)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,885,121)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,118,303)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (74,408,155)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,445,029)
Message 77828 - Posted: 3 Jul 2014 | 19:49:43 UTC - in response to Message 77827.

You might want to consider a drive on PRPNet for 27- and 121- to get to to those limits so that you don't have to move them.


We're not in a hurry to finish 27121. If we're going to let it run to "completion" (whatever that means) on PRPNet, it doesn't matter if that takes a day or a decade. There's little overhead to running PRPNet, either in computer or human resources.

My current feeling on 27121 is that if it's merely a mega prime search, there's little downside to just shutting it down. SR5 is, right now, a much better place to search for mega primes because the numbers are smaller. ESP is also a better place to search for mega primes, although it's only slightly smaller. Both have the serendipitous advantage of contributing to the conjectures. When ESP and SR5 grow to the point where they're bigger than the 27121 numbers, we can always restart 27121, but I suspect that by that time the PPS search with k<1200 may have grown beyond the million digit mark and that would be the best place to search for mega primes (assuming those numbers haven't already been searched outside of PrimeGrid.)




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The "Shut up already!" badge:  This loud mouth has mansplained on the forums over 10 thousand times!  Sheesh!!!Discovered the World's First GFN-19 prime!!!Discovered 1 mega primeFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2020 Tour de Primes321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,822,730)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,005,249)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,009,577)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,145,754)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (15,133,009)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,197,957)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (34,291,181)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,007,110)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,276,330)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,084,329)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,195,123)321 Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,061,196)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,170,256)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,059,304)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,885,121)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,118,303)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (74,408,155)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,445,029)
Message 77829 - Posted: 3 Jul 2014 | 19:51:24 UTC - in response to Message 77826.

IOne thing that has not been mentioned is the issue of BOINC venues.


That's a very good point.
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The "Shut up already!" badge:  This loud mouth has mansplained on the forums over 10 thousand times!  Sheesh!!!Discovered the World's First GFN-19 prime!!!Discovered 1 mega primeFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2020 Tour de Primes321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,822,730)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,005,249)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,009,577)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,145,754)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (15,133,009)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,197,957)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (34,291,181)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,007,110)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,276,330)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,084,329)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,195,123)321 Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,061,196)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,170,256)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,059,304)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,885,121)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,118,303)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (74,408,155)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,445,029)
Message 77837 - Posted: 4 Jul 2014 | 13:02:43 UTC - in response to Message 77826.

One thing that has not been mentioned is the issue of BOINC venues.


I've always assumed this was something that was either extremely difficult to change, or even impossible. That might not be the case. You know what they say about "assume"...

If you had access to an unlimited number of venues, how many would you use? Don't be shy about asking for a lot. It's probably not a lot harder to add 100 more venues than it is to add just one.
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Discovered the World's First base 116 Generalized Cullen prime!!!Discovered 25 mega primesEliminated 7 conjecture "k"sDiscovered 1 Sophie Germain pairDiscovered 2 Fermat divisors2012 Tour de Primes highest prime count2012 Tour de Primes most Mountain Stage primes2015 Tour de Primes highest prime count2016 Tour de Primes highest prime countFound 23 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2018 Tour de Primes Mountain Stage2019 Tour de Primes highest prime countFound 22 primes in the 2019 Tour de Primes2020 Tour de Primes highest prime scoreFound 21 primes in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 4 mega primes in the 2020 Tour de Primes321 LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (176,151,853)Cullen LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (103,870,990)ESP LLR Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (203,249,784)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (109,580,172)PPS LLR Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (635,688,562)PSP LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (126,982,721)SoB LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (135,747,083)SR5 LLR Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (214,194,272)SGS LLR Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (200,463,636)TPS LLR (retired) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (235,439)TRP LLR Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (201,215,056)Woodall LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (101,447,725)321 Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (235,451,253)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (83,794,448)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (285,139,652)PPS Sieve Double Ruby: Earned 2,000,000,000 credits (2,642,581,716)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (203,523,358)TRP Sieve (suspended) Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (201,489,157)AP 26/27 Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (369,500,391)GFN Double Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000,000 credits (1,868,957,771)PSA Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (259,058,048)
Message 77838 - Posted: 4 Jul 2014 | 13:41:51 UTC - in response to Message 77837.


If you had access to an unlimited number of venues, how many would you use? Don't be shy about asking for a lot. It's probably not a lot harder to add 100 more venues than it is to add just one.



With the current projects and applications, a minimum of 6 might work for me, but closer to 8 would be better.

To future proof things, I would go with either 10 or 12. Why more you might ask...we often introduce new application improvements as manual selections (at least before they become automatic). Thus, we have had at times 3 different GPU type configurations (OCL vs. CUDA double-precision and single precision GPUs of any kind) along with difference in CPUs (AVX vs. no AVX as well as different capabilities) and obviously different project selections/combinations (mostly due to CPU limitations in running longer projects with older equipment and sometimes specialized CPUs as was the case when the Android app was in place). I think 10 to 12 venues would allow flexibility to handle most of these configurations.

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Message 77840 - Posted: 4 Jul 2014 | 15:15:14 UTC

Is it at all possible that venue creation itself can be controlled by users? Say, if I want a new venue, I create it (with easy to remember name) and assign it to my computers?

Just thinking out loud.

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Message 77841 - Posted: 4 Jul 2014 | 15:28:20 UTC - in response to Message 77840.

Is it at all possible that venue creation itself can be controlled by users? Say, if I want a new venue, I create it (with easy to remember name) and assign it to my computers?

Just thinking out loud.


Not immediately. Adding more static venues is (or should be) a simple cut and paste on the scripts and if nothing unexpected blows up might be done very quickly (in fact, I'm testing it right now.)

Having a the more generic facility involves rewriting about 1300 lines of php scripts (or more) and all the testing that goes along with that. It's what I'd like to do, but I don't know when or if it would percolate to the top of the priority list.
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The "Shut up already!" badge:  This loud mouth has mansplained on the forums over 10 thousand times!  Sheesh!!!Discovered the World's First GFN-19 prime!!!Discovered 1 mega primeFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2020 Tour de Primes321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,822,730)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,005,249)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,009,577)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,145,754)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (15,133,009)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,197,957)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (34,291,181)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,007,110)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,276,330)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,084,329)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,195,123)321 Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,061,196)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,170,256)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,059,304)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,885,121)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,118,303)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (74,408,155)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,445,029)
Message 77842 - Posted: 4 Jul 2014 | 15:31:06 UTC - in response to Message 77841.

And, to follow on to that, if we add 10 new venues (custom0 through custom9), and you use those, and later on we allow you to create any number of venues with any names, the old venues (work, school, custom5, etc.) would automatically carry over to the more generalized facility if that gets built at some point.

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The "Shut up already!" badge:  This loud mouth has mansplained on the forums over 10 thousand times!  Sheesh!!!Discovered the World's First GFN-19 prime!!!Discovered 1 mega primeFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2020 Tour de Primes321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,822,730)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,005,249)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,009,577)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,145,754)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (15,133,009)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,197,957)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (34,291,181)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,007,110)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,276,330)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,084,329)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,195,123)321 Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,061,196)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,170,256)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,059,304)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,885,121)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,118,303)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (74,408,155)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,445,029)
Message 77843 - Posted: 4 Jul 2014 | 17:20:51 UTC

What do people think of the idea of shutting down 27121?
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Discovered the World's First base 116 Generalized Cullen prime!!!Discovered 25 mega primesEliminated 7 conjecture "k"sDiscovered 1 Sophie Germain pairDiscovered 2 Fermat divisors2012 Tour de Primes highest prime count2012 Tour de Primes most Mountain Stage primes2015 Tour de Primes highest prime count2016 Tour de Primes highest prime countFound 23 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2018 Tour de Primes Mountain Stage2019 Tour de Primes highest prime countFound 22 primes in the 2019 Tour de Primes2020 Tour de Primes highest prime scoreFound 21 primes in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 4 mega primes in the 2020 Tour de Primes321 LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (176,151,853)Cullen LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (103,870,990)ESP LLR Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (203,249,784)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (109,580,172)PPS LLR Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (635,688,562)PSP LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (126,982,721)SoB LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (135,747,083)SR5 LLR Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (214,194,272)SGS LLR Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (200,463,636)TPS LLR (retired) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (235,439)TRP LLR Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (201,215,056)Woodall LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (101,447,725)321 Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (235,451,253)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (83,794,448)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (285,139,652)PPS Sieve Double Ruby: Earned 2,000,000,000 credits (2,642,581,716)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (203,523,358)TRP Sieve (suspended) Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (201,489,157)AP 26/27 Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (369,500,391)GFN Double Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000,000 credits (1,868,957,771)PSA Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (259,058,048)
Message 77847 - Posted: 4 Jul 2014 | 18:12:04 UTC - in response to Message 77843.
Last modified: 4 Jul 2014 | 18:12:27 UTC

What do people think of the idea of shutting down 27121?


That depends on what that means. Does it get folded back into the PPS ranges (at least eventually)? Does it become its own BOINC subproject? or is it shut down completely?

If the latter, I would prefer to see it still open. Indeed, before this thread was begun, my own plans for the machines that I have running the MEGA project were to switch them over to the 27 port and/or the GFN262144 port when MEGA runs out of work.

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The "Shut up already!" badge:  This loud mouth has mansplained on the forums over 10 thousand times!  Sheesh!!!Discovered the World's First GFN-19 prime!!!Discovered 1 mega primeFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2020 Tour de Primes321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,822,730)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,005,249)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,009,577)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,145,754)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (15,133,009)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,197,957)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (34,291,181)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,007,110)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,276,330)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,084,329)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,195,123)321 Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,061,196)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,170,256)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,059,304)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,885,121)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,118,303)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (74,408,155)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,445,029)
Message 77848 - Posted: 4 Jul 2014 | 18:32:51 UTC - in response to Message 77847.
Last modified: 4 Jul 2014 | 18:35:40 UTC

What do people think of the idea of shutting down 27121?


That depends on what that means. Does it get folded back into the PPS ranges (at least eventually)? Does it become its own BOINC subproject? or is it shut down completely?

If the latter, I would prefer to see it still open. Indeed, before this thread was begun, my own plans for the machines that I have running the MEGA project were to switch them over to the 27 port and/or the GFN262144 port when MEGA runs out of work.


It means letting the 27121 ports run down, and then shutting it off. Specifically, not moving it to BOINC.

If I might ask, what's the appeal of 27121? It's supposed to be a mega prime search, but SR5 is a better place to search for mega primes, and SR5 numbers will grow much more slowly than 27121 numbers, so it will remain a good place to search for mega primes for longer than 27121 will.

On another topic, your BOINC venue problem should be solved now. Let me know if there's any problems that pop up. (There's now 14 venues to choose from.)

EDIT: I didn't answer the "folding into PPS" question. 27 and 121 are already being searched in PPS, so there's nothing to be folded in.
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Message 77849 - Posted: 4 Jul 2014 | 18:32:53 UTC - in response to Message 77843.

What do people think of the idea of shutting down 27121?

I think it makes the most sense to have the ranges folded into the PPS search in BOINC rather than having a stand alone PRPNet project. There isn't anything very special about the project, it is just searching for primes of a very specific form that wouldn't help with any conjecture.
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321 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,043,076)Cullen LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (14,228,684)ESP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,115,673)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,124,061)PPS LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (54,965,047)PSP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (15,265,824)SoB LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,053,795)SR5 LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,710,959)SGS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,404,749)TRP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,743,624)Woodall LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (21,804,003)321 Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (200,220)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,710,149)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,061,184)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (57,182,910)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,251,279)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,572,416)AP 26/27 Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (543,507)GFN Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (21,199,917)PSA Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (248,258,813)
Message 77850 - Posted: 4 Jul 2014 | 20:11:19 UTC

It would seem to us that there really isn't any point in continuing any work on the 27, 121 or Mega ports on PRPNet. Granted they will all empty in the next 2 months or so.

The work will, TheDawgz assume, eventually require double checking against the residues anyway. (TheDawgz detest running residue checks)

At present there appears to be VERY little work completed on a daily basis on 27 and 121. The work that is being completed is all due to 2 or 3 folks per port.

Mega is getting worked - but again the work is all going to be rechecked at some point. (Did we mention how much we love running double checks)

Just our 4 cents.

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Message 77852 - Posted: 4 Jul 2014 | 20:51:04 UTC - in response to Message 77850.
Last modified: 4 Jul 2014 | 23:48:51 UTC

The work will, TheDawgz assume, eventually require double checking against the residues anyway. (TheDawgz detest running residue checks)


and...

Mega is getting worked - but again the work is all going to be rechecked at some point. (Did we mention how much we love running double checks)


Maybe not.

You could roughly categorize everything we do as either A) something that helps fulfill PrimeGrid's goals, or B) something that helps fulfill the user's goals.

PrimeGrid's goals are usually to A) help solve conjectures, B) find special primes, or C) do sieving in support of other goals.

User's goals generally are A) aligned with PrimeGrid's goals, B) to get credit or badges, or C) to find primes or sometimes mega-primes.

Some of our projects are designed for PrimeGrid's goals. Some are designed for user's goals. In particular, some of the projects' sole purposes is merely to provide the users with an opportunity to find either "a prime" or "a mega prime". These projects have no other 'lofty' mathematical significance.

I'm not knocking those projects -- finding primes is why we're all here. (Well, not the people interested only in credits, perhaps. But the rest of us are here to find primes.) If the projects are not doing a good job at providing an opportunity for people to find primes, then they have no reason to exist.

In my opinion, 27121 may be one of those projects that isn't really serving a purpose right now. As a mega prime search, its numbers are too large and SR5 is a much more fertile place to search for prime numbers.

So what does this have to do with your question about double checking? When we're trying to, say, prove a conjecture, we care a LOT about not missing a prime. But with a "user prime search" such as 27121, it really doesn't matter if a prime is missed, except, of course, to the person who missed it. To us, or to anyone else, it doesn't matter. Since people running these projects are looking to find a prime, and doing a DC is **NOT** a great way to find primes, there's little incentive for anyone to ever DC a project like that.

You're not the only one who doesn't like doing double checks. There's no necessity to DC 27121.

That being said, if we do move it to BOINC, we would consider whether it makes sense to DC it or not. What we've found with ESP and SR5 is that between the computing resources we have available on BOINC and the fact that computers are so much faster than they used to be, we can double check entire PRPNet projects in very little time. So we would think about doing a DC on 27121. I'm just not sure if we'd decide that it's worthwhile to double check a project like that.
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Message 77856 - Posted: 4 Jul 2014 | 23:10:33 UTC

I'll move my rigs to the new Pluto venue and oc them as hell. I guess I wont need any fancy coolers there :)

On a more serious note, the creation of the new custom venues, only a few hours after the issue has been raised, shows how amazing PrimeGrid can be. Great work. Congratulations and many thanks to whom makes it happen.
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Discovered 1 mega primeEliminated 1 conjecture "k"Discovered 1 twin prime321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,014,405)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,734,854)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,421,149)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,576,209)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (17,389,837)PSP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,425,342)SoB LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,986,628)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,248,659)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,878,856)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,416,106)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,400,237)321 Sieve Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,000,576)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,000,977)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,843,367)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (78,673,438)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,473,750)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,243,608)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,755,127)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (202,192,765)PSA Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,042,125)
Message 77857 - Posted: 5 Jul 2014 | 2:36:28 UTC

The one issue with custom venues is that across multiple projects things get lost, because only the original set is understood across the CPID.

So, if I use a custom one here and am running on another project, it may cause some headaches trying to keep things working as wanted with a secondary/share project.

I love that the idea of more venues can be done and would love to be able to use them, but until I am certain my requirements would work across all the projects I run, I am afraid to make changes.


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Message 77858 - Posted: 5 Jul 2014 | 5:04:21 UTC

As it appears that PrimeGrid’s 27121 Prime Search is heading to pasture, I thought I’d provide a little background on the 12121 Search.

But first, a historical perspective on PrimeGrid’s use of PRPNet. Along with "The PSA was created to research, test, and prepare future projects for PrimeGrid BOINC. It has also expanded to include additional projects that will not enter BOINC”, you can also add a couple of other purposes:

- Provide PG users a wide variety of projects to participate in.
- Provide a platform for other prime search projects to receive exposure

Most importantly, it allowed PG users flexibility AND the ability to participate in more “exotic” prime searches. PRPNet is an excellent program for individuals who wish to take more control of their personal prime searches. Being introduced to it through PrimeGrid is a good learning tool.

At one point, it was even envisioned as a platform that PrimeGrid could provide as a service to its users. Users would choose a search, request a port, and then upload their own work. However, we had too many irons in the fire to pursue this offering. Additionally, it’s relatively easy enough for users to set it up themselves on their own host machine.

Now, as far as 27 and 121 is concerned, those two k’s are only special because someone chose them to be, as you’ll read below. There’s nothing intrinsically special that separates them from other k’s. Rolling the +1 side into PPS has no downside. Abandoning the -1 side only drops PrimeGrid's future contribution to the “List of primes k*2^n−1 for k < 300” compiled by Wilfrid Keller.

Finally, the 27121 Prime Search only became a mega prime search simply because it had reached mega prime territory and for no other reason. As a prime finding project, it didn’t produce many primes for PrimeGrid, only 4 since the collaboration began. The early success of the 12121 Search did not translate into future success. Such is the life of prime searching.

The comparison to SR5 as a mega prime project is confusing. If mega primes are desired, simply push the PPS project to mega prime territory and sit back and enjoy. For 2014, PRPNet’s Mega Prime Search found 5 mega primes vs. SR5’s 9 mega primes. Considering substantially far less resources, the Mega Prime Search comes out on top. Also, PPS has found 148 non mega primes. Granted, if PPS was in mega prime territory, that number would “probably” be halved, but still far more than any of the other projects.

Again, if the desire is for mega primes, bring PPS up to that level. Alternatively, you could move the Mega Prime Search into BOINC for 5 <= k <= 99 and watch the mega primes come rolling in. Once n reaches a point of diminishing return, upload the next 101 <= k <= 199 range. The original intent for PPS was to stair-step the lower k's to higher n's anyway. I'd even go out on a sturdy limb and predict that PG will find well over 100 Mega Primes in a year once PPS reaches that level. Last year alone, PPS found ~365 primes, including 36 for k<100.

As for 27 and 121, since no one chooses those k’s to be “special” anymore, there’s no need for the extra effort. With PrimeGrid's increased capacity in BOINC, it makes sense to move more projects into that platform. However, it does not appear that the 27121 Prime Search warrants it. Simply rolling them into PPS might suffice.

And lastly, on the topic of DCing "everything", well, that's a discussion for another day. Now on to the original intent of this post. ;)

History of 12121 Search

The 12121 Search was started in May 2004 by Justin Van Klein. The project’s primary goal was to search 121*2^n-1 up to n=1M with a longer term goal to “create searches similar to this one for other k<300 and to expand n higher than 1,000,000.”

The project built upon “the work of 15k and Wilfrid Keller [List of primes k*2^n-1 for k < 300 created December 1998] and is specifically a subsidiary of the search of k*2^n-1 for k<300. This work is also based slightly on the work of the 321 search.”

When asked “Why 12121?” Justin responded, “Honestly, there is not a very good reason. It is a low palindromic perfect square. I thought it might be interesting.” “Really, what made me pick it was that it was one of the few numbers for k<300 that had little work done on it. I figure at n=1,000,000 I will be able to determine whether there is any trend in density and whether it would be worth it to continue further.”

By February 2005, interest had waned as the testing times increased. Justin posted, “Now that tests are getting slow and primes are few and far between there is very little interest in 12121. I am in the process of creating a few sister projects to get the interest up and running again. Coming soon are searches for: 27*2^n-1, 12121*2^n-1, 1212121*2^n-1.” k=27 received the most attention.

By 2009, it had been three years since the last k=121 prime and almost a year since the last k=27 prime. In an effort to revitalize the project, PrimeGrid offered its PRPNet as a platform for testing and to increase the project’s exposure. On 13 Feb 2009, PrimeGrid’s 27121 Prime Search began. PrimeGrid rolled the +1 side into the project as well.

As of July 2014, only 4 additional primes have been discovered. The following is a complete history of primes found by the projects:

Primes found by 12121 Search
121*2^2033941-1 Szymon Banka (1/28/2006)
121*2^1954243-1 Szymon Banka (1/21/2006)
121*2^1695499-1 Rodger Ewing (9/06/2005)
121*2^1589157-1 Frank Clowes (10/24/2005)
121*2^1526097-1 Frank Clowes (7/19/2005)
121*2^1039965-1 Frank Clowes (11/07/2004)
121*2^990219-1 Michael Haas, M.D. (08/13/2004)
121*2^541621-1 Frank Clowes (06/02/2004)
121*2^494317-1 Michael Haas, M.D. (06/03/2004)
121*2^410131-1 Frank Clowes (07/21/2004)
121*2^383061-1 JF Boyer (06/02/2004)
121*2^368059-1 JF Boyer (05/30/2004)
121*2^334257-1 Rodger Ewing (06/07/2004)
121*2^302097-1 Rodger Ewing (05/27/2004)

Sister projects:
27*2^1108214-1 Arnold Padro (3/23/2008)
27*2^777992-1 James Burt (11/01/2005)
27*2^729314-1 William W. Mikrut (7/14/2005)
27*2^627794-1 Chris Chatfield (3/31/2005)

In collaboration with PrimeGrid:
121*2^4553899-1 Timothy D. Winslow (2/25/2012)
27*2^3855094-1 Pietari Snow (2/28/2012)
27*2^1902689-1 Peter Kaiser (12/13/2009)

PrimeGrid’s +1 Search
27*2^2218064+1 Honza Cholt (12/23/2009)

k's are prime for the following n's:
k=27 -
1, 2, 4, 5, 8, 10, 14, 28, 37, 38, 70, 121, 122, 160, 170, 253, 329, 362, 454, 485, 500, 574, 892, 962, 1213, 1580, 2642, 2708, 4505, 8152, 11858, 13300, 15041, 16118, 16778, 19069, 22769, 29020, 30298, 30377, 35942, 42817, 42869, 62024, 74629, 90449, 91042, 117901, 128594, 143330, 152530, 157898, 175852, 282700, 340682, 444622, 627794, 729314, 777992, 1108214, 1163629, 1253870, 1902689, 3855094

k=121 -
1, 3, 21, 27, 37, 43, 91, 117, 141, 163, 373, 421, 1581, 2035, 10701, 18931, 21307, 51195, 64579, 156541, 302097, 334257, 368059, 383061, 410131, 494317, 541621, 990219, 1039965, 1526097, 1589157, 1695499, 1954243, 2033941, 4553899

k=27 +
2, 4, 7, 16, 19, 20, 22, 26, 40, 44, 46, 47, 50, 56, 59, 64, 92, 175, 215, 275, 407, 455, 1076, 1090, 3080, 3322, 6419, 7639, 19360, 30500, 38770, 44164, 50696, 114760, 117784, 153847, 160874, 178739, 379880, 405514, 672007, 974752, 1164664, 1476347, 2218064

k=121 +
8, 12, 44, 84, 96, 228, 264, 320, 732, 788, 1808, 7928, 12264, 37784, 59196, 91112, 112208, 168716, 251184, 264632, 272052, 513020, 636564, 674360

p.s. I see Pluto, but where’s Ceres, Haumea, Makemake, and Eris? ;) Seriously, nice work on the venues.

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321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (101,692)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (104,876)ESP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (101,979)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (148,018)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (140,441)SoB LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (119,475)SR5 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (120,939)SGS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (122,783)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (100,115)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (107,459)321 Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (202,757)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,908,135)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (25,450,104)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (130,966)TRP Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (201,525)AP 26/27 Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (100,015)GFN Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (246,369)PSA Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (226,594)
Message 77859 - Posted: 5 Jul 2014 | 6:01:08 UTC - in response to Message 77857.

The one issue with custom venues is that across multiple projects things get lost, because only the original set is understood across the CPID.

So, if I use a custom one here and am running on another project, it may cause some headaches trying to keep things working as wanted with a secondary/share project.

I love that the idea of more venues can be done and would love to be able to use them, but until I am certain my requirements would work across all the projects I run, I am afraid to make changes.

The new custom venues are unfortunately useless if you use an account manager like BOINCstats or GridRepublic. My boinc standard preferences for "default", "home", "work" and "school" are updated from Einstein and contain different values for ram, swapfile, gpu usage and so on.

BOINCstats tried to go it's own way of new venues in the past. I ended up in an update intervall of max one hour. Each time a project uploaded a work unit, the venue was resetted to the four known and in most cases this was the "default" venue. Which means in my case no gpu but unwanted cpu work. I do not know what happens with the BOINCstats venues in the interim. Perhaps Willy deactivated this feature or even not.


I think a better place for adding new venues are the BOINC sources. This will (should) work for all BOINC projects.
____________
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The "Shut up already!" badge:  This loud mouth has mansplained on the forums over 10 thousand times!  Sheesh!!!Discovered the World's First GFN-19 prime!!!Discovered 1 mega primeFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2020 Tour de Primes321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,822,730)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,005,249)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,009,577)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,145,754)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (15,133,009)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,197,957)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (34,291,181)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,007,110)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,276,330)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,084,329)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,195,123)321 Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,061,196)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,170,256)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,059,304)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,885,121)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,118,303)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (74,408,155)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,445,029)
Message 77865 - Posted: 5 Jul 2014 | 11:43:22 UTC - in response to Message 77858.

p.s. I see Pluto, but where’s Ceres, Haumea, Makemake, and Eris? ;) Seriously, nice work on the venues.


Aren't the names SO much better than Custom0, Custom1, ... Custom9? We have Jim to thank for the naming (as well as doing all the testing.)

I thought about using Ceres. And a couple of other so-called "dwarf planets".

John, thanks for the background on 27121. I had been told it was originally designed for finding mega primes, but it looks like that's not exactly correct.
____________
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The "Shut up already!" badge:  This loud mouth has mansplained on the forums over 10 thousand times!  Sheesh!!!Discovered the World's First GFN-19 prime!!!Discovered 1 mega primeFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2020 Tour de Primes321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,822,730)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,005,249)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,009,577)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,145,754)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (15,133,009)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,197,957)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (34,291,181)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,007,110)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,276,330)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,084,329)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,195,123)321 Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,061,196)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,170,256)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,059,304)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,885,121)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,118,303)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (74,408,155)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,445,029)
Message 77866 - Posted: 5 Jul 2014 | 11:46:53 UTC - in response to Message 77859.

The one issue with custom venues is that across multiple projects things get lost, because only the original set is understood across the CPID.

So, if I use a custom one here and am running on another project, it may cause some headaches trying to keep things working as wanted with a secondary/share project.

I love that the idea of more venues can be done and would love to be able to use them, but until I am certain my requirements would work across all the projects I run, I am afraid to make changes.

The new custom venues are unfortunately useless if you use an account manager like BOINCstats or GridRepublic. My boinc standard preferences for "default", "home", "work" and "school" are updated from Einstein and contain different values for ram, swapfile, gpu usage and so on.

BOINCstats tried to go it's own way of new venues in the past. I ended up in an update intervall of max one hour. Each time a project uploaded a work unit, the venue was resetted to the four known and in most cases this was the "default" venue. Which means in my case no gpu but unwanted cpu work. I do not know what happens with the BOINCstats venues in the interim. Perhaps Willy deactivated this feature or even not.


I think a better place for adding new venues are the BOINC sources. This will (should) work for all BOINC projects.


Perhaps this will be a case of "build it and they shall come". It's a relatively simple change on the server side, and no change at all on the client. I'll drop Willy an email and ask him if he has any interest in supporting this, but I don't know how much good it will do if we're the only ones with support for it.

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Discovered the World's First base 116 Generalized Cullen prime!!!Discovered 25 mega primesEliminated 7 conjecture "k"sDiscovered 1 Sophie Germain pairDiscovered 2 Fermat divisors2012 Tour de Primes highest prime count2012 Tour de Primes most Mountain Stage primes2015 Tour de Primes highest prime count2016 Tour de Primes highest prime countFound 23 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2018 Tour de Primes Mountain Stage2019 Tour de Primes highest prime countFound 22 primes in the 2019 Tour de Primes2020 Tour de Primes highest prime scoreFound 21 primes in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 4 mega primes in the 2020 Tour de Primes321 LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (176,151,853)Cullen LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (103,870,990)ESP LLR Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (203,249,784)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (109,580,172)PPS LLR Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (635,688,562)PSP LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (126,982,721)SoB LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (135,747,083)SR5 LLR Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (214,194,272)SGS LLR Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (200,463,636)TPS LLR (retired) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (235,439)TRP LLR Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (201,215,056)Woodall LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (101,447,725)321 Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (235,451,253)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (83,794,448)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (285,139,652)PPS Sieve Double Ruby: Earned 2,000,000,000 credits (2,642,581,716)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (203,523,358)TRP Sieve (suspended) Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (201,489,157)AP 26/27 Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (369,500,391)GFN Double Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000,000 credits (1,868,957,771)PSA Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (259,058,048)
Message 77867 - Posted: 5 Jul 2014 | 13:57:22 UTC


Okay, since much of the 27121 work will merge into PPS naturally, then my vote is to let them end as we drain the last work on these ports (as we are doing with MEGA).


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321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (115,936)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (169,920)ESP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (104,695)PPS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,260,929)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (129,609)SoB LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (137,062)SR5 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (594,172)SGS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (115,118)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (104,510)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (106,100)PPS Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,999,728)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (103,975)TRP Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (516,130)GFN Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,533,296)PSA Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,146,521)
Message 77868 - Posted: 5 Jul 2014 | 14:03:53 UTC - in response to Message 77867.

Okay, since much of the 27121 work will merge into PPS naturally, then my vote is to let them end as we drain the last work on these ports (as we are doing with MEGA).

I totally agree to that.

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Discovered 1 mega primeDiscovered 1 Fermat divisor321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,424,768)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,256,909)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,021,690)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,610,120)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,082,604)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,114,046)SoB LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,542,658)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,011,433)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,035,343)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,149,540)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,222,602)321 Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,032,392)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (201,767)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,158,539)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (284,228,796)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,293,182)TRP Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,183,808)AP 26/27 Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (59,684,182)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (83,615,774)PSA Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (200,004,037)
Message 77870 - Posted: 5 Jul 2014 | 14:19:16 UTC - in response to Message 77868.

A little while ago, I was checking how many crunchers have a full set of gold badges. I noticed that quite some users had everything up to gold or higher, except for PSA. There sure seems to be a real treshold for crunchers.
BOINC works almost automatically, whereas for PRPNet there is some manual work to be done (I didn't try the PRPNet for dummies yet). To start with, I had some trouble with PRPNet too.
Another "problem" are the "delayed credits". A lot of questions have been asked about this in the forums. Once you know how it works, it's perfectly all right, but, again, for starters, it takes some getting used to.
Conclusion: the more projects going from PRPNet to BOINC, the better, IMO.

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Message 77872 - Posted: 5 Jul 2014 | 15:24:19 UTC - in response to Message 77867.

Okay, since much of the 27121 work will merge into PPS naturally, then my vote is to let them end as we drain the last work on these ports (as we are doing with MEGA).

I'm curious as to why the Mega Prime Search is being drained? Is it being shut down as well or is it being moved to BOINC? I can understand closing 27121 as those k's are no longer a "focus". And let's face it, they did not produce many primes anyway.

However, mega primes are a unique class of primes having the distinction of being 1M+ digits long. Allowing users the ability to search for mega primes and giving them the best opportunity to find them seems like an excellent fit for PrimeGrid. Now that PG BOINC has extended capacity, it makes perfect sense.

Variety is the spice of life. :)
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The "Shut up already!" badge:  This loud mouth has mansplained on the forums over 10 thousand times!  Sheesh!!!Discovered the World's First GFN-19 prime!!!Discovered 1 mega primeFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2020 Tour de Primes321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,822,730)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,005,249)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,009,577)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,145,754)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (15,133,009)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,197,957)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (34,291,181)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,007,110)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,276,330)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,084,329)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,195,123)321 Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,061,196)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,170,256)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,059,304)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,885,121)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,118,303)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (74,408,155)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,445,029)
Message 77874 - Posted: 5 Jul 2014 | 16:13:52 UTC - in response to Message 77872.

I'm curious as to why the Mega Prime Search is being drained? Is it being shut down as well or is it being moved to BOINC? I can understand closing 27121 as those k's are no longer a "focus". And let's face it, they did not produce many primes anyway.


Well, that's a long story. Last year it seemed as though there were no more suitable ranges to reserve to continue the MEGA search, so we had no choice but to shut it down when it went dry since there was nothing else to load into it.

I was talking to Lennart this morning, however, and this seems to have changed. I'm a bit fuzzy on the details, to be honest, but the result is clear. We're not going to shut down the MEGA search!

Our plan now is to let the MEGA port run dry on PRPNet and start a new PPS-MEGA project on BOINC. PPS-MEGA will share the same stats and badges as PPS and PPSE since it's essentially another PPS range that's being searched.

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Message 77881 - Posted: 5 Jul 2014 | 18:50:20 UTC

Our plan now is to let the MEGA port run dry on PRPNet and start a new PPS-MEGA project on BOINC. PPS-MEGA will share the same stats and badges as PPS and PPSE since it's essentially another PPS range that's being searched.

TheDawgz think this is an excellent plan!!
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Message 77882 - Posted: 5 Jul 2014 | 18:57:18 UTC - in response to Message 77874.
Last modified: 5 Jul 2014 | 19:00:05 UTC

I'm curious as to why the Mega Prime Search is being drained? Is it being shut down as well or is it being moved to BOINC? I can understand closing 27121 as those k's are no longer a "focus". And let's face it, they did not produce many primes anyway.


Well, that's a long story. Last year it seemed as though there were no more suitable ranges to reserve to continue the MEGA search, so we had no choice but to shut it down when it went dry since there was nothing else to load into it.

I was talking to Lennart this morning, however, and this seems to have changed. I'm a bit fuzzy on the details, to be honest, but the result is clear. We're not going to shut down the MEGA search!

Our plan now is to let the MEGA port run dry on PRPNet and start a new PPS-MEGA project on BOINC. PPS-MEGA will share the same stats and badges as PPS and PPSE since it's essentially another PPS range that's being searched.


Since I maintain the prothsearch website and since it was with my blessing that PPS became a BOINC project, I like the PPS-MEGA idea, but I think it should be for all k < 100 (except k=3 which is searched by the 321 project). That fits well into the current MEGA project as it is only for k < 100. I know that some k < 100 are only at n=3M, but I think a special drive could be created to get those k into the MEGA range as soon as all of the other k < 1200 get to n=2.2M. That is unless you want to separate PPS-MEGA (k < 100) from PPS (100 < k < 1200).

I think it is important to be wary of a proliferation of multiple projects spun off from PPS. That is was 121 and 27 projects are.

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Message 77883 - Posted: 5 Jul 2014 | 19:29:05 UTC - in response to Message 77882.

I think it is important to be wary of a proliferation of multiple projects spun off from PPS.

On the other hand, MEGA is a chase for big primes, so let's have a "special k" project where users get to choose which k's they would like to search in the PG preferences page. The area around 35 seems to be prolific at the moment.

I've changed my opinion about BOINC vs PRPNet. I used to like BOINC, but GPU apps are easier to set up and "just work" on 64-bit Linux with PRPNet. Besides, opening the BOINC manager introduces serious screen lag when using heavy GPU apps. When this happens, users lose control of the screen, and patience with BOINC.

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Message 77886 - Posted: 5 Jul 2014 | 22:30:08 UTC - in response to Message 77883.

so let's have a "special k" project


Hmm in that case I don't know whether to do tasks in parallel or in cereal(serial)...

See which of you get that.

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Message 77889 - Posted: 6 Jul 2014 | 0:34:56 UTC - in response to Message 77882.

Since I maintain the prothsearch website and since it was with my blessing that PPS became a BOINC project, I like the PPS-MEGA idea, but I think it should be for all k < 100 (except k=3 which is searched by the 321 project). That fits well into the current MEGA project as it is only for k < 100.


Why only run a few K's? If we do that, with BOINC's resources, we'll push n up higher very quickly. That means longer task times, and rarer primes. If we instead run a much larger selection of k's we'll move away from 1,000,000 digits much more slowly.

We've sieved for k up to 10,000 -- we could run all of them. There's an infinite number of k's out there, so it's not as if we'll be stopping anyone else from searching Proth numbers around 1M digits.

(Don't worry; I am sensitive to the needs and desires of those outside of the PrimeGrid ecosphere. My point is there's a lot of k's and we'd be better served by running across a lot of k's and increasing n slowly rather than the other way around.)

I know that some k < 100 are only at n=3M, but I think a special drive could be created to get those k into the MEGA range as soon as all of the other k < 1200 get to n=2.2M. That is unless you want to separate PPS-MEGA (k < 100) from PPS (100 < k < 1200).


I have no problem with the n ranges being separate. I'd rather separate the searches by n than have them separated by k (as is often the case right now.) Candidates with different k's but similar n's have similar characteristics, which definitely is not true for numbers with similar k's and different n's.

I think it is important to be wary of a proliferation of multiple projects spun off from PPS. That is was 121 and 27 projects are.


I agree, if you're talking about k's. Having separate projects based on n, however, makes a lot of sense to me since it gives users the ability to select different size tasks.
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Message 77890 - Posted: 6 Jul 2014 | 0:36:55 UTC - in response to Message 77883.

...let's have a "special k" project where users get to choose which k's they would like to search in the PG preferences page.


That's not going to happen, sorry.
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Message 77891 - Posted: 6 Jul 2014 | 1:15:21 UTC - in response to Message 77889.

Since I maintain the prothsearch website and since it was with my blessing that PPS became a BOINC project, I like the PPS-MEGA idea, but I think it should be for all k < 100 (except k=3 which is searched by the 321 project). That fits well into the current MEGA project as it is only for k < 100.


Why only run a few K's? If we do that, with BOINC's resources, we'll push n up higher very quickly. That means longer task times, and rarer primes. If we instead run a much larger selection of k's we'll move away from 1,000,000 digits much more slowly.


My main argument is that prothsearch is only for k < 1200. Although there are more resources available for BOINC than PRPNet, it is clear that it taking months to complete all k < 1200 from n - 2M to n =2.2M. I specifically stated k < 100 because I prefer that all n get searched by increasing n and those k are very close to MEGA territory. Cherry picking ranges of n leaves gaps.[/quote]

I have no problem with the n ranges being separate. I'd rather separate the searches by n than have them separated by k (as is often the case right now.) Candidates with different k's but similar n's have similar characteristics, which definitely is not true for numbers with similar k's and different n's.


IMO cherry picking creates more problems than it solves. I prefer completeness so that holes can be avoided because eventually someone has to do the dirty work to fill the holes.

I think the question is this: does the size of the mega-digit prime matter to the searchers? If so, then more k are needed so that all tests take as short a time as possible. If not, then give them fewer k and push those k to a higher n.

A question for PrimeGrid is this: do you want projects to overlap and compete with one another for resources? If you split by n, then you create an overlap as eventually PPS reaches MEGA territory. If you split by k, you don't create that overlap.

One more thing, if users really want to find a MEGA prime, there is 321, Cullen, Woodall, SoB, Riesel, ESP, and SR5 (I might have missed some) where they can use their resources to find a MEGA digit primes. The last four of those would find "useful" primes.

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Message 77892 - Posted: 6 Jul 2014 | 1:35:55 UTC - in response to Message 77891.

IMO cherry picking creates more problems than it solves. I prefer completeness so that holes can be avoided because eventually someone has to do the dirty work to fill the holes.


That someone will be us. We'll pick it up as PPS grows larger. I'm far more concerned with running out of work to do than I am with our ability to get the work done.

Looking further down the road, PPSE will eventually push all k below 10,000 into mega digit territory. Processing power keeps increasing, and I've got plenty of patience. We'll fill the gaps.
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Message 77893 - Posted: 6 Jul 2014 | 3:46:00 UTC - in response to Message 77889.

Why only run a few K's? If we do that, with BOINC's resources, we'll push n up higher very quickly. That means longer task times, and rarer primes. If we instead run a much larger selection of k's we'll move away from 1,000,000 digits much more slowly.


You've made a great point here Michael, that I've been thinking about. Since searching Proth Primes makes "n" to grow and with higher "n" primes get scarcer, shouldn't we open a MEGA prime search based on SGS primes?

The point is that in SGS search "n" doesn't grow (grows terribly slowly) and WU length stays the same, then we can find mega primes quicker than in other searches. For those who want to find a bigger prime there are lots of options on Primegrid.

What do you think about this idea?

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Message 77898 - Posted: 6 Jul 2014 | 13:51:01 UTC - in response to Message 77893.

The point is that in SGS search "n" doesn't grow (grows terribly slowly) and WU length stays the same, then we can find mega primes quicker than in other searches. For those who want to find a bigger prime there are lots of options on Primegrid.

What do you think about this idea?


I like that idea. It would take many years to find a MEGA SGS prime (barring luck), but it would be meaningful search that has a well-defined goal.

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Message 77899 - Posted: 6 Jul 2014 | 14:30:13 UTC

We're not going to shut down the MEGA search!

Well, this is quick and exciting news. An excellent opportunity for the PrimeGrid community!

Why only run a few K's? If we do that, with BOINC's resources, we'll push n up higher very quickly.

The natural progression since the beginning for all PPS work was to search n sequentially from k up; thus push the lower k’s to a higher n. After working with Mark and Wilfrid to determine the scope of the project, PG filled all the holes left by previous efforts and cleaned up the search.

The Mega Prime Search in PRPNet was always out of sequence but it provide a niche search for those seeking the best opportunity to find mega primes. Now is a great opportunity to resolve this anomaly. With the extra capacity in BOINC, it makes perfect sense.

PPS k<100 is currently at 3M. By creating an additional project selection on preference page, users could select PPS-MEGA. Drop in 5<=k<=99 and I suspect it would take very little time to reach 3.322M. From what I remember, PG users were always game for a good challenge. ;)

That would leave 100<k<1200 in PPS and 1200<k<10000 in PPSE. PPS could continue it’s march up to n=2.2M for the remaining k’s to 1200. PPSE would likewise continue to trudge along producing quick primes for those simply seeking the thrill of finding and reporting a prime to the Top 5000…marking their place in prime finding history. :)

(Note: A more advanced goal AND in keeping with previous record keeping conventions, drop k<300 in and push to 3.322M. This would take longer to realize the Mega Prime Search as 100<k<300 is currently only at n=2.2M)

Once PPS reaches n=2.2M for all k’s, drop it back down to k=101 and start preparing it for entry into the Mega Prime Search. Hopefully by the time Mega Prime reaches its ineffectiveness, PPS will have 100<k<200 ready. Continue this process up to k=1200. And who knows, maybe by the time k=1200 is reached, PPSE will be at n=3.322M. :)

Using this method, PPS-MEGA would offer mega primes, PPS would offer intermediate primes, and PPSE would offer fast lower primes but still Top 5000.

As I mentioned in my previous post, the original intent for Proth Prime Search project (PPS/E) was to stair-step the lower k's to higher n’s. This would continue that intent and actually fulfill it to a greater degree.

I borrowed this from the Top LLR Priorities thread:
    k<10 to 3M
    10<k<32 to 2.5M
    32<k<100 to 2M
    100<k<500 to 1.5M
    500<k<1200 to 1.25M
    1200<k<4000 to 800K
    4000<k<10000 to 700K

Although it’s a bit outdated, it provides a good roadmap. Introducing the Mega Prime Search might create a flatter top to this but I think it can easily be correctly by periodic efforts to push lower k’s higher. For example, updating the above goals might look something like this:

    k=3 to 12M (currently @ 11.1M)
    k=5 to 9M (6M)
    k=7 to 7M (6M)
    k=9 to 5M (3M)
    10<k<32 to 4M (3M)
    32<k<100 to 3.322M (3M)
    100<k<500 to 3M (2.2M)
    500<k<1200 to 2.5M (2.13M-2.2M)
    1200<k<4000 to 2M (1.28M)
    4000<k<10000 to 1.5M (1.28M)

This might be too “guided” but hopefully the idea is clear. This would function nicely in the 4 tiered 321/PPS-MEGA/PPS/PPSE search. It may be “reaching” a bit to get those lower k’s up that high. Nevertheless, it’s food for thought.
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Message 77900 - Posted: 6 Jul 2014 | 14:43:32 UTC

Since searching Proth Primes makes "n" to grow and with higher "n" primes get scarcer, shouldn't we open a MEGA prime search based on [an] SGS [like search]?

If the goal of adding a Mega Prime Search to BOINC is to simply seek mega primes then yes, this is a viable path forward. Sieve for n=3322188 for 11<=k<max sieve limit and start searching. (k<11 are already searched above mega prime territory and n is the minimum to reach that territory for k>=11.) However, this would be well beyond the scope and objectives of the PPS project. This would be an entirely new project.

Then there’s the question of the sieve efficiency. Should only a single form be sieved (i.e. k*2^n-1 or k*2^n+1) or should a double, triple, or even a quad sieve be considered to get the most bang for computing power? Find a twin or SG or CC mega prime? The difficulty of this should be apparent in SGS’s current n=1.29M search. But as Mark points out, it would add “meaning” to the search. However, his statement that "It would take many years..." is greatly under emphasized. It certainly would take luck! :)

Additionally, if the natural progression of the PPS project is of no concern, then this would be the best method forward. There are no rules that any progression has to be followed at all. However, there’s plenty of work within the PPS project to guarantee a Mega Prime Search that would last for decades. Why not accomplish two objectives at the same time?
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The "Shut up already!" badge:  This loud mouth has mansplained on the forums over 10 thousand times!  Sheesh!!!Discovered the World's First GFN-19 prime!!!Discovered 1 mega primeFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2020 Tour de Primes321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,822,730)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,005,249)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,009,577)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,145,754)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (15,133,009)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,197,957)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (34,291,181)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,007,110)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,276,330)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,084,329)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,195,123)321 Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,061,196)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,170,256)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,059,304)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,885,121)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,118,303)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (74,408,155)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,445,029)
Message 77901 - Posted: 6 Jul 2014 | 14:56:18 UTC - in response to Message 77898.

The point is that in SGS search "n" doesn't grow (grows terribly slowly) and WU length stays the same, then we can find mega primes quicker than in other searches. For those who want to find a bigger prime there are lots of options on Primegrid.

What do you think about this idea?


I like that idea. It would take many years to find a MEGA SGS prime (barring luck), but it would be meaningful search that has a well-defined goal.


The idea certainly has merit. There's a few drawbacks, (but they're not necessarily deal breakers).

* The purpose of SGS is to find either SGS or twin primes. That's a whole lot less likely to happen at 1 million digits than it is at 388K digits (where the current SGS range is). We currently find SGS primes very frequently (227 so far this year), and that makes it an attractive project for people looking to find a prime (any prime). It gets a lot of participation. If SGS was in the mega prime range, not only would it be harder to find primes, but less people will be running it because many of the people currently running SGS just to find a prime would likely switch to PPSE instead. (For those who are curious, we've also found 663 PPSE primes and 150 PPS primes this year.)

* We have no sieve for a mega-SGS project. That would need to be done first.

* The timing isn't good. The current MEGA range is going to run out soon, and we need to do something with it soon.

* What would we do with the current SGS search? Keep running it (Have both SGS and MEGA-SGS)? Abandon it? Run SGS, MEGA-SGS, PPS, PPSE, and MEGA-PPS all concurrently?

On the other hand, there is an advantage nobody has mentioned:

* We currently have two "bottom feeder" projects, SGS and PPSE. By "bottom feeder" I mean a project that's both constantly in danger of falling off the bottom of the Top 5K list, and is simultaneously what's causing the bottom of the list to rise so quickly (and thus, pushing small primes off the list.) With two such projects, it's a constant balancing act to keep SGS from pushing PPSE off the list while simultaneously keeping PPSE from pushing SGS off the list. If SGS was searching significantly larger primes, that problem would completely go away. (To be clear, the concern isn't about pushing older SGS or PPSE primes off the list. The concern is that the leading edge of either project will fall off the list which would cause newly discovered primes to not be eligible for the list.)
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The "Shut up already!" badge:  This loud mouth has mansplained on the forums over 10 thousand times!  Sheesh!!!Discovered the World's First GFN-19 prime!!!Discovered 1 mega primeFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2020 Tour de Primes321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,822,730)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,005,249)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,009,577)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,145,754)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (15,133,009)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,197,957)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (34,291,181)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,007,110)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,276,330)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,084,329)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,195,123)321 Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,061,196)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,170,256)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,059,304)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,885,121)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,118,303)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (74,408,155)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,445,029)
Message 77903 - Posted: 6 Jul 2014 | 15:37:39 UTC - in response to Message 77899.

As I mentioned in my previous post, the original intent for Proth Prime Search project (PPS/E) was to stair-step the lower k's to higher n’s. This would continue that intent and actually fulfill it to a greater degree.


Thanks for that excellent post on the stair-step progression search method. It's certainly provides great insight into how the PPS search has been done in the past.

I'm (obviously) not so sure it's the best method for continuing the search in the future. Times change, technology changes, and I'm looking at this from a completely different perspective.

I'm trying to look at the forest. We're going to search it all eventually, where "all" is defined as all candidates below any given n for k<10000. Or any other k range, for that matter. The only question is in what order we do the search.

Since the end result is the same regardless of the ordering, the question becomes what's more attractive to the users. To me, the answer is clear: having a clear selection of projects that offer different sized tasks so as to best fit in with the user's hardware and wishes. That's better served by running lots of k's simultaneously in a narrower range of n's.

Yes, it wasn't done this way in the past. The amount of computing resources that were available was much less, computers were much slower, and there were dozens of participants rather than thousands. Searching 5000 k's at once made no sense whatsoever.

The circumstances have changed. Perhaps we should too.



P.S. How about a very out-of-the-box alternative idea: If the prothsearch community is completely against such a search method, we could drop all PPS searching completely. (Hold on and read the whole thing before getting upset. It does make sense in the end...) If the stair-step PPS search methodology doesn't really fit PrimeGrid's needs, we could, instead, open up multiple SGS searches in the same n ranges. This gives PrimeGrid multiple sizes of prime searches, continues the existing SGS search, and eliminates the "gap" problem. PrimeGrid participants would still have varying sizes of primes to search for, with the bonus of the possibility of finding special pairs of primes. In that respect, at any given n, one could argue that it makes more sense to search SGS than PPS. This would leave the PPS searching to smaller groups where stair-stepping by k makes more sense.
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Message 77904 - Posted: 6 Jul 2014 | 15:49:18 UTC - in response to Message 77903.

P.S. How about a very out-of-the-box alternative idea: If the prothsearch community is completely against such a search method, we could drop all PPS searching completely. (Hold on and read the whole thing before getting upset. It does make sense in the end...) If the stair-step PPS search methodology doesn't really fit PrimeGrid's needs, we could, instead, open up multiple SGS searches in the same n ranges. This gives PrimeGrid multiple sizes of prime searches, continues the existing SGS search, and eliminates the "gap" problem. PrimeGrid participants would still have varying sizes of primes to search for, with the bonus of the possibility of finding special pairs of primes. In that respect, at any given n, one could argue that it makes more sense to search SGS than PPS. This would leave the PPS searching to smaller groups where stair-stepping by k makes more sense.

That actually sounds like a really good idea to me.
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Message 77905 - Posted: 6 Jul 2014 | 17:03:02 UTC

very out-of-the-box alternative idea

Please don't go in that direction.

If change/adaptation is needed (and we agree it is); TheDawgz support the 3 tier PPS-Mega, PPS, PPSE concept - we feel that it provides PG users with options that fit personal goals, wide ranges of available hardware and continues (as we understand them) the logical progression of the prothsearch goals.

- Our 4 cents
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Message 77906 - Posted: 6 Jul 2014 | 17:29:01 UTC - in response to Message 77903.

…having a clear selection of projects that offer different sized tasks so as to best fit in with the user's hardware and wishes. That's better served by running lots of k's simultaneously in a narrower range of n's.

Yes, it wasn't done this way in the past. The amount of computing resources that were available was much less, computers were much slower, and there were dozens of participants rather than thousands. Searching 5000 k's at once made no sense whatsoever.

The circumstances have changed. Perhaps we should too.

I don’t follow your line of thought here. The boat always rises with the water and the same can be said with prime finding and technology. However, a revolution of ideas is needed every now and then and I’m always eager to see progress. I'll be curious to watch this new path evolve.

As for projects that offer different sized tasks, PrimeGrid already offers a wide selection. What other sizes did you have in mind?

Rank Project 1 Generalized Fermat Prime Search (WR) 7 Seventeen or Bust (LLR) 10 Prime Sierpinski Problem (LLR) 10 Generalized Fermat Prime Search (short) 11 Woodall Prime Search (LLR) 12 321 Prime Search (LLR) 12 Cullen Prime Search (LLR) 20 The Riesel Problem (LLR) 33 Extended Sierpinski Problem (LLR) 52 Sierpinski / Riesel Base 5 Problem (LLR) 324 Proth Prime Search (LLR) 1946 Sophie Germain Prime Search (LLR) 3136 Proth Prime Search Extended (LLR)

BTW, Mega Prime Search would be at rank 96.

P.S. How about a very out-of-the-box alternative idea: If the prothsearch community is completely against such a search method, we could drop all PPS searching completely. (Hold on and read the whole thing before getting upset. It does make sense in the end...) If the stair-step PPS search methodology doesn't really fit PrimeGrid's needs, we could, instead, open up multiple SGS searches in the same n ranges. This gives PrimeGrid multiple sizes of prime searches, continues the existing SGS search, and eliminates the "gap" problem. PrimeGrid participants would still have varying sizes of primes to search for, with the bonus of the possibility of finding special pairs of primes. In that respect, at any given n, one could argue that it makes more sense to search SGS than PPS. This would leave the PPS searching to smaller groups where stair-stepping by k makes more sense.

Well, it certainly is a departure. However, if this is what the PrimeGrid community wishes, then it’s clear you have your path forward. :) It will be interesting to see where it leads.

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