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Message boards : Number crunching : New PPS Sieve run much longer same credit

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John SikoraProject donor
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Joined: 25 Jan 11
Posts: 5
ID: 82863
Credit: 339,541,302
RAC: 0
321 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (764,805)Cullen LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (660,696)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (128,505)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (127,088)SoB LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,727,544)SGS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (38,916)TRP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (59,947)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,296,505)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (92,286,049)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (236,679,387)TRP Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (367,833)GFN Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,396,792)
Message 62919 - Posted: 26 Feb 2013 | 15:20:16 UTC

I noticed that the new PPS Sieve units are running significantly longer than previous but the CPU time is about the same as is the credit. Since this is using a CUDA, I'm assuming the CPU time isn't correct but shouldn't the longer run times be provided with a stronger credit for the CUDA option?

Profile Michael GoetzProject donor
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The "Shut up already!" badge:  This loud mouth has mansplained on the forums over 10 thousand times!  Sheesh!!!Discovered the World's First GFN-19 prime!!!Discovered 1 mega primeFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2021 Tour de Primes321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,132,712)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,038,114)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,177,890)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,347,050)PPS LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,751,038)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,956,186)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (36,067,618)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,007,110)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,718,606)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,084,329)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,032,821)321 Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,061,196)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,170,256)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,059,304)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,885,121)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,118,303)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (78,031,938)WW Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (32,204,000)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,445,029)
Message 62926 - Posted: 26 Feb 2013 | 16:19:00 UTC - in response to Message 62919.

I noticed that the new PPS Sieve units are running significantly longer than previous but the CPU time is about the same as is the credit. Since this is using a CUDA, I'm assuming the CPU time isn't correct but shouldn't the longer run times be provided with a stronger credit for the CUDA option?


Sounds like your GPU is running slower than it normally does for some reason.

As far as I can tell, the size of each task (9G P range, 5<=k<=9999, 3M<=n<=6M) hasn't changed.
____________
My lucky number is 75898524288+1

Michael Millerick
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Joined: 4 Feb 09
Posts: 799
ID: 35074
Credit: 321,420,637
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Discovered 1 mega primeFound 3 primes in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2021 Tour de Primes321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,023,600)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,016,794)ESP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,186,009)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,043,648)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (19,232,686)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,043,852)SoB LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,031,453)SR5 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,085,475)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,035,177)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,740,707)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,046,592)321 Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,440,175)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,911,344)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,077,092)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,200,870)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,034,014)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,070,774)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,227,947)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (72,009,297)WW Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,104,000)PSA Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (52,866,806)
Message 62929 - Posted: 26 Feb 2013 | 16:48:58 UTC - in response to Message 62926.

This has happened to me in the past, where GPU work units would run for much longer than expected. Someone had a good explanation at one point relating to the card downclocking itself after having been left on for too long. After I restarted the problem fixed itself.
____________

Profile Rick Reynolds
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Joined: 13 Aug 10
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Credit: 6,711,933,078
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Discovered 3 mega primesFound 2 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 12 primes in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2021 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2021 Tour de Primes321 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,244,909)Cullen LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,194,451)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (9,643,481)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,216,354)PPS LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (73,178,392)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,151,448)SoB LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,045,557)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (14,871,275)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,860,522)TRP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,130,742)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,419,909)321 Sieve (suspended) Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (101,538,236)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (127,922,665)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (30,984,158)PPS Sieve Double Ruby: Earned 2,000,000,000 credits (2,840,173,136)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,134,964)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,013,696)AP 26/27 Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (276,723,135)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (349,277,565)WW Double Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000,000 credits (1,431,508,000)PSA Double Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000,000 credits (1,370,700,486)
Message 62933 - Posted: 26 Feb 2013 | 17:27:03 UTC

I've had this happen as well but only after a wu died with a computation error and the older nvidia driver would then reset my clocks back to default.

Like Mike said, I would have to reboot and everything was back to normal.

It didn't look like you had any wu's die however (unless those were purged in the last few hours).

Profile Pooh Bear 27Project donor
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Joined: 10 May 09
Posts: 746
ID: 39821
Credit: 764,809,990
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Discovered 1 mega primeEliminated 1 conjecture "k"Discovered 1 twin prime321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,014,405)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,681,452)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,421,149)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,842,668)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (18,135,970)PSP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,783,817)SoB LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (13,332,361)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,248,659)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,878,856)TRP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,153,506)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,400,237)321 Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,000,576)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,000,977)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,843,367)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (80,183,646)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,473,750)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,243,608)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,535,426)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (212,813,794)WW Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (329,780,000)PSA Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,042,125)
Message 62936 - Posted: 26 Feb 2013 | 18:05:36 UTC

There seems to be a memory leak in CUDA and it should be rebooted regularly. If I forget I start getting video errors, it slows down the whole machine (even my CPU stuff suffers).
____________
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John SikoraProject donor
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Joined: 25 Jan 11
Posts: 5
ID: 82863
Credit: 339,541,302
RAC: 0
321 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (764,805)Cullen LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (660,696)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (128,505)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (127,088)SoB LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,727,544)SGS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (38,916)TRP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (59,947)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,296,505)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (92,286,049)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (236,679,387)TRP Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (367,833)GFN Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,396,792)
Message 62958 - Posted: 26 Feb 2013 | 23:50:05 UTC

I have rebooted. What I'm seeing is that two weeks ago or so the units were all finishing in around 20-30 minutes. Now, on two different computers both of which have been rebooted the timeframes are about 2-3 hours. Any more thoughts?

John SikoraProject donor
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Joined: 25 Jan 11
Posts: 5
ID: 82863
Credit: 339,541,302
RAC: 0
321 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (764,805)Cullen LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (660,696)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (128,505)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (127,088)SoB LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,727,544)SGS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (38,916)TRP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (59,947)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,296,505)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (92,286,049)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (236,679,387)TRP Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (367,833)GFN Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,396,792)
Message 62959 - Posted: 26 Feb 2013 | 23:52:29 UTC

I take back what I said in the last post. The other computer seems to be ok. It must be the 480 video card. Thanks for the help.

Profile Rick Reynolds
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Joined: 13 Aug 10
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Credit: 6,711,933,078
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Discovered 3 mega primesFound 2 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 12 primes in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2021 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2021 Tour de Primes321 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,244,909)Cullen LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,194,451)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (9,643,481)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,216,354)PPS LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (73,178,392)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,151,448)SoB LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,045,557)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (14,871,275)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,860,522)TRP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,130,742)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,419,909)321 Sieve (suspended) Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (101,538,236)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (127,922,665)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (30,984,158)PPS Sieve Double Ruby: Earned 2,000,000,000 credits (2,840,173,136)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,134,964)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,013,696)AP 26/27 Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (276,723,135)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (349,277,565)WW Double Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000,000 credits (1,431,508,000)PSA Double Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000,000 credits (1,370,700,486)
Message 63220 - Posted: 9 Mar 2013 | 0:40:35 UTC

Was there a change made to the pps sieve validation recently?
____________
@AggieThePew

JimBProject donor
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Joined: 4 Aug 11
Posts: 916
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Credit: 974,532,191
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Discovered 1 mega prime321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,726,625)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,031,868)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,064,082)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,038,750)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,000,461)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,674,374)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (42,604,648)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,829,173)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,413,082)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,291,092)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,046,412)321 Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,057,614)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,002,919)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,005,451)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (52,042,965)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,341,676)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,070,804)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,742,251)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,000,251)PSA Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (728,547,693)
Message 63222 - Posted: 9 Mar 2013 | 0:50:14 UTC - in response to Message 63220.
Last modified: 9 Mar 2013 | 1:03:22 UTC

Was there a change made to the pps sieve validation recently?


Yes, there's an entirely new validator running. For the most part the change shouldn't be all that noticeable. Please let me know of any problems.

You can also find me on the Chat if you want to talk in real time.

Profile Rick Reynolds
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Joined: 13 Aug 10
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Credit: 6,711,933,078
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Discovered 3 mega primesFound 2 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 12 primes in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2021 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2021 Tour de Primes321 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,244,909)Cullen LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,194,451)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (9,643,481)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,216,354)PPS LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (73,178,392)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,151,448)SoB LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,045,557)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (14,871,275)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,860,522)TRP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,130,742)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,419,909)321 Sieve (suspended) Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (101,538,236)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (127,922,665)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (30,984,158)PPS Sieve Double Ruby: Earned 2,000,000,000 credits (2,840,173,136)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,134,964)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,013,696)AP 26/27 Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (276,723,135)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (349,277,565)WW Double Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000,000 credits (1,431,508,000)PSA Double Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000,000 credits (1,370,700,486)
Message 63223 - Posted: 9 Mar 2013 | 1:21:05 UTC
Last modified: 9 Mar 2013 | 1:25:10 UTC

Thanks for the info. I have 3 that haven't validated so I was just wondering.

So now sieves require a second job to be run?
____________
@AggieThePew

JimBProject donor
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Joined: 4 Aug 11
Posts: 916
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Credit: 974,532,191
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Discovered 1 mega prime321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,726,625)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,031,868)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,064,082)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,038,750)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,000,461)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,674,374)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (42,604,648)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,829,173)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,413,082)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,291,092)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,046,412)321 Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,057,614)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,002,919)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,005,451)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (52,042,965)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,341,676)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,070,804)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,742,251)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,000,251)PSA Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (728,547,693)
Message 63224 - Posted: 9 Mar 2013 | 1:27:09 UTC - in response to Message 63223.

Thanks for the info. I have 3 that haven't validated so I was just wondering.

So now sieves require a second job to be run?

Sometimes. It's not a mistake, a lot of thought and discussion went into how it works. More news on that will be forthcoming soon.

Profile Michael GoetzProject donor
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The "Shut up already!" badge:  This loud mouth has mansplained on the forums over 10 thousand times!  Sheesh!!!Discovered the World's First GFN-19 prime!!!Discovered 1 mega primeFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2021 Tour de Primes321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,132,712)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,038,114)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,177,890)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,347,050)PPS LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,751,038)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,956,186)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (36,067,618)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,007,110)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,718,606)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,084,329)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,032,821)321 Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,061,196)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,170,256)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,059,304)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,885,121)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,118,303)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (78,031,938)WW Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (32,204,000)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,445,029)
Message 63225 - Posted: 9 Mar 2013 | 2:19:42 UTC
Last modified: 9 Mar 2013 | 2:36:19 UTC

Now that the new validator is running, I can talk about a few things.

First of all, the new validator fixes a lot of bugs that we've lived with for a long time. In particular, the old validators didn't always accept some results that should have been accepted, which meant people lost out on credit they should have received.

Conversely, in some circumstances, it wasn't picky enough, and was granting credit to results that weren't valid.

Jim's new validator code is MUCH smarter, and fixes those bugs and more. The new validator has been in the works for several months, but it took on a new urgency about a week ago:

On February 28th, we discovered a small group of people, mostly from Taiwan, who were exploiting the flaw in the validator and were cheating the system. Using this exploit, they acquired as much as several billion bogus credits in the PPS Sieve project. We're going to rescind all of their credits.

That's bad enough, but it's not the worst part. Because they were sending us bogus sieve results, we never received real sieve results for a very large number of PPS Sieve WUs. Even worse, we have no way of knowing exactly which WUs are bogus. We were able to do an analysis of the sieve file and based on that can determine which parts of the sieve file are definitely good -- but for the rest of the sieve file, it's impossible to tell whether there really are no factors in that particular range or whether it's the result of the cheaters sending bogus results.

Therefore, approximately 2 million PPS-Sieve WUs are going to need to be redone at some point.

Not surprisingly, this event also focused our attention on potential vulnerabilities, and we're taking a variety of steps to at the very least make it more difficult to cheat in the future. One of those steps is that sometimes the sieves are going to require a quorum of 2 (or more) matching results in order to validate. For obvious reasons we're not going to discuss the precise rules, or any other security and anti-cheating methods.

It is unfortunate that the misdeeds of a few miscreants will cause us to have to change the way things are done. Certainly, we don't want to slow down sieving by requiring double checks. However, you can't put the genie back in the bottle -- without this step, people will always be able to game the system, and that in turn means we'll be getting bogus results in the sieve files. That then implies that we'll be searching far more candidates with LLR than we really need to search.

Double checking isn't necessary only to prevent cheating and keep everyone on a level playing field; it's necessary to maintain the integrity of the sieve data.
____________
My lucky number is 75898524288+1

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Posts: 8159
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Credit: 6,711,933,078
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Discovered 3 mega primesFound 2 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 12 primes in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2021 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2021 Tour de Primes321 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,244,909)Cullen LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,194,451)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (9,643,481)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,216,354)PPS LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (73,178,392)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,151,448)SoB LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,045,557)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (14,871,275)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,860,522)TRP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,130,742)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,419,909)321 Sieve (suspended) Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (101,538,236)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (127,922,665)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (30,984,158)PPS Sieve Double Ruby: Earned 2,000,000,000 credits (2,840,173,136)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,134,964)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,013,696)AP 26/27 Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (276,723,135)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (349,277,565)WW Double Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000,000 credits (1,431,508,000)PSA Double Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000,000 credits (1,370,700,486)
Message 63226 - Posted: 9 Mar 2013 | 2:25:38 UTC
Last modified: 9 Mar 2013 | 2:29:23 UTC

Thanks for the detailed explanation. I kinda figured something of that nature was going on. Fully understand and agree with the change.

As for make up work, I'm sure we can do that as well.

Cheers

On a funny note, now we can start a thread on wing men for pps sieve lol
____________
@AggieThePew

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Posts: 746
ID: 39821
Credit: 764,809,990
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Discovered 1 mega primeEliminated 1 conjecture "k"Discovered 1 twin prime321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,014,405)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,681,452)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,421,149)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,842,668)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (18,135,970)PSP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,783,817)SoB LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (13,332,361)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,248,659)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,878,856)TRP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,153,506)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,400,237)321 Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,000,576)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,000,977)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,843,367)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (80,183,646)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,473,750)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,243,608)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,535,426)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (212,813,794)WW Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (329,780,000)PSA Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,042,125)
Message 63227 - Posted: 9 Mar 2013 | 2:47:57 UTC

I say congrats on the hard work and changes. With a good portion of Sieving being done on GPU, the rework shouldn't be that bad. Plus with the speed up in processing power it also brings it down a notch, even with some double checking.

Good to hear that the PG team is on the ball.
____________
My lucky numbers are 121*2^4553899-1 and 3756801695685*2^666669±1

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Joined: 2 Jan 09
Posts: 134
ID: 33689
Credit: 733,229,928
RAC: 5,234
Discovered 3 mega primes321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,921,665)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,917,119)ESP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,029,641)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,717,201)PPS LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (33,764,385)PSP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,000,584)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (23,509,455)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,722,231)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,378,393)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,539,919)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,254,369)321 Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,634,338)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (360,397)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,801,060)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (77,103,903)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,364,469)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,845,234)AP 26/27 Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,241,013)GFN Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (514,814,024)WW Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (64,000)PSA Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (246,526)
Message 63642 - Posted: 19 Mar 2013 | 14:56:06 UTC - in response to Message 63225.

On February 28th, we discovered a small group of people, mostly from Taiwan, who were exploiting the flaw in the validator and were cheating the system. Using this exploit, they acquired as much as several billion bogus credits in the PPS Sieve project.


Sigh - did I miss something where you can exchange credits for cash? Why would you bother to do this?

Some people...

We're going to rescind all of their credits.


Good. Too bad they can't be appropriately shamed over something so inane. But I'm glad you guys seem to have a handle on it and the overall steps you took sound necessary to, as you say, maintain the overall integrity of the data.

Good job and keep looking for those who for whatever inane reasons will always try to game the system.

Profile Michael GoetzProject donor
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Joined: 21 Jan 10
Posts: 13648
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Credit: 285,375,265
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The "Shut up already!" badge:  This loud mouth has mansplained on the forums over 10 thousand times!  Sheesh!!!Discovered the World's First GFN-19 prime!!!Discovered 1 mega primeFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2021 Tour de Primes321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,132,712)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,038,114)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,177,890)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,347,050)PPS LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,751,038)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,956,186)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (36,067,618)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,007,110)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,718,606)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,084,329)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,032,821)321 Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,061,196)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,170,256)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,059,304)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,885,121)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,118,303)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (78,031,938)WW Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (32,204,000)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,445,029)
Message 63643 - Posted: 19 Mar 2013 | 15:02:00 UTC - in response to Message 63642.

Sigh - did I miss something where you can exchange credits for cash?


I keep on looking for the website where I can redeem Boinc credits for cash -- I'd settle for a chocolate chip cookie, even -- but Google must be blocking those sites in its search engine. :)
____________
My lucky number is 75898524288+1

Profile DaveBProject donor
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Joined: 20 Jun 09
Posts: 351
ID: 42198
Credit: 11,898,570
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321 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (547,769)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (158,867)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (162,534)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (134,373)SoB LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (510,012)SR5 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (266,757)SGS LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (510,560)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (242,439)Woodall LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (508,989)321 Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (200,123)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (229,801)PPS Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,317,221)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (21,147)TRP Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (333,494)AP 26/27 Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (24,117)GFN Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,730,320)
Message 63740 - Posted: 22 Mar 2013 | 2:10:25 UTC - in response to Message 63643.

Sigh - did I miss something where you can exchange credits for cash?


I keep on looking for the website where I can redeem Boinc credits for cash -- I'd settle for a chocolate chip cookie, even -- but Google must be blocking those sites in its search engine. :)



You cannot exchange them for cash. You need a CREDITs CARD.
____________
Member team AUSTRALIA
My lucky number is 9291*2^1085585+1

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321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (101,692)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (104,876)ESP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (101,979)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (148,018)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (140,441)SoB LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (119,475)SR5 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (120,939)SGS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (122,783)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (100,115)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (107,459)321 Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (202,757)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,908,135)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (25,450,104)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (130,966)TRP Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (201,525)AP 26/27 Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (100,015)GFN Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (246,369)PSA Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (226,594)
Message 63746 - Posted: 22 Mar 2013 | 9:12:11 UTC - in response to Message 63740.

Sigh - did I miss something where you can exchange credits for cash?


I keep on looking for the website where I can redeem Boinc credits for cash -- I'd settle for a chocolate chip cookie, even -- but Google must be blocking those sites in its search engine. :)


You cannot exchange them for cash. You need a CREDITs CARD.


IIRC, somewhere in the US you got a mug or cup of coffee for the credits...
Better than nothing.
____________
Best wishes. Knowledge is power. by jjwhalen

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ID: 128024
Credit: 4,798,956
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321 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (80,384)Cullen LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (47,259)ESP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (20,394)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (111,379)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (264,107)SoB LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (338,553)SR5 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (65,445)TRP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (80,579)Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (48,743)PPS Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,656,348)TRP Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (87,598)GFN Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (995,737)
Message 63794 - Posted: 23 Mar 2013 | 7:15:07 UTC - in response to Message 63225.
Last modified: 23 Mar 2013 | 7:15:53 UTC


One of those steps is that sometimes the sieves are going to require a quorum of 2 (or more) matching results in order to validate.


As an engineer i deal with security coefficient each day. I *strongly* agree with this choice. If the system can be cheated, someone will try to cheat, just for the sake of demonstrate that the system can be cheated.


That then implies that we'll be searching far more candidates with LLR than we really need to search.


This is actually a good thing, since this means that no prime is missed (i think that sieve task returns actual factor? So it is easy to DC sieved composite numbers?)

Since i think with a 'black hat' on my head, i also suggest you to stop the adaptive replicator on LLR, and always perform a DC also on LLR. Even if adaptive replicator makes it difficult to cheat the validator, someone could try to cheat adaptive replication, and then cheat the validator.
____________

Profile Gary Craig
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Discovered 1 mega prime321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,893,273)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,440,687)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,738,876)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,292,626)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (9,648,951)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,653,927)SoB LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,558,341)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,748,705)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,335,713)TRP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,602,818)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,282,622)321 Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (740,566)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (59,788,598)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,143,068)PPS Sieve Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (524,673,938)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,130,821)TRP Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,074,710)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (43,842,888)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (224,648,943)PSA Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (62,378,755)
Message 63841 - Posted: 25 Mar 2013 | 0:56:26 UTC - in response to Message 63794.

Since i think with a 'black hat' on my head, i also suggest you to stop the adaptive replicator on LLR, and always perform a DC also on LLR. Even if adaptive replicator makes it difficult to cheat the validator, someone could try to cheat adaptive replication, and then cheat the validator.

I wear that "black hat" too, at times. But I think that in the "I found a prime!" case, there's always a double-check done at the "top 5000 prime" pages, even when PrimeGrid reports with a quorum of 1. Independent computer, different software, etc.
--Gary

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Credit: 94,993,523
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321 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,009,885)Cullen LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,440,123)ESP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,008,511)PPS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,389,215)PSP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,080,442)SoB LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,143,918)SR5 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,853,162)SGS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,344,963)TRP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,140,037)Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,130,355)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,038,617)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (36,643,348)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,000,717)TRP Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,298,244)GFN Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (17,346,536)PSA Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,125,451)
Message 63846 - Posted: 25 Mar 2013 | 5:46:44 UTC - in response to Message 63841.

Since i think with a 'black hat' on my head, i also suggest you to stop the adaptive replicator on LLR, and always perform a DC also on LLR. Even if adaptive replicator makes it difficult to cheat the validator, someone could try to cheat adaptive replication, and then cheat the validator.

I wear that "black hat" too, at times. But I think that in the "I found a prime!" case, there's always a double-check done at the "top 5000 prime" pages, even when PrimeGrid reports with a quorum of 1. Independent computer, different software, etc.
--Gary


Primes are tripple checked. If a user reports a number as being prime, a second test is always sent out regardless of the trustworthyness of the user. And indeed, at the top 5000 they are also checked again.
____________
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