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http://www.primegrid.com/workunit.php?wuid=91890282
Here we go again...
Sorry about this but why did my wingman ask for so little credit on the above WU? He took longer to crunch it and asked for less (a lot less) than me! Is it my host that's weird or his?
Bah humbug, it must be the time of year - all I do lately is whinge - sorry all.
Pete
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35 x 2^3587843+1 is prime! |
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It looks like it's due to his computer having a much lower CPU benchmark than yours. Lower benchmark means lower claimed credit per CPU second. The time difference isn't huge though because LLR doesn't have any advantage on a 64-bit OS, but your CPU benchmark will still be much higher.
I'm not exactly an authority on this stuff though... still seems a bit weird to me.
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Well, his computer is definately claiming lower than normal. I've seen low claims, but this is extremely low. Reason: unknown.
This is on all types of WU's too, not just woo's
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Thanks for the replies guys.
Why can't we switch to fixed credits per WU for LLRing?
We have fixed credits for Sophie Germain right?
Pete.
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35 x 2^3587843+1 is prime! |
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John Honorary cruncher
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Joined: 21 Feb 06 Posts: 2875 ID: 2449 Credit: 2,681,934 RAC: 0
                 
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Why can't we switch to fixed credits per WU for LLRing?
We have fixed credits for Sophie Germain right?
SGS is a fixed n search...meaning the WU's don't get longer. All the other LLR searches increase in n with each subsequent WU. Therefore, the WU's get longer.
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Now it's one of my hosts asking for low credit!
This time it's on Cullen LLR WUs. It crunches these at 127k-129k sec's per WU and is claiming 630 credits for each. My other machine is processing them at 131k-133k secs each claiming 960 cr.
Can I influence the under claiming machine to ask for a little more?
I was hoping to get c. 1000 credits per WU and hoped I only needed to process 10 of these beasts to get the bronze badge.
As a comparison, PSP Sieves processed during the challenge were coming in at 21mins on each of the 4 cores on my 9550. That equates to c. 330 credits per hour. If I get the 4x960 credits for the Cullen LLR then that will be 105 credits per hour. Thanks again for the explanations regarding disparity between 32bit and 64bit applications. I don't expect to get the same level of credit for processing these mammoth LLR WUs as the 'shorter' and easier on the processor sieves. LLRs are more likely to produce invalid results as well, more reasons to get back to sieving asap.
PSP LLRing now, wish me luck.
Pete:(
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35 x 2^3587843+1 is prime! |
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Reading the following page might give you a few of the answers you are looking for regarding credit computation.
http://boinc.berkeley.edu/wiki/Computation_credit
The basic hourly claim the client submits with a Result to the project servers is the sum of Whetstone plus Dhrystone values of the last Benchmark divided by about 480 (it varies slightly with processor and OS). Thus for instance (2,000 Whetstone + 6,000 Dhrystone) / 480 = 16.66 hourly claim. This exact value will not always show on the results listing of projects. It is often substituted by their own pre-assigned credit value.
Using this formula, we can determine the rate at which these computers will gain credit (per core)
This time it's on Cullen LLR WUs. It crunches these at 127k-129k sec's per WU and is claiming 630 credits for each. My other machine is processing them at 131k-133k secs each claiming 960 cr.
Computer 128275
Measured floating point speed 2457.91 million ops/sec
Measured integer speed 6072.35 million ops/sec
(2457.91+6072.35)/480 = 17.77 hourly
128000s = 35.56h * 17.77 = 631 credits
Computer 86532
Measured floating point speed 3244.17 million ops/sec
Measured integer speed 9255.04 million ops/sec
(3244.17+9255.04)/480 = 26.04 hourly
132000s = 36.66h * 26.04 = 956 credits
So, the expected calculated credit matches up almost exactly with the actual claimed credit.
Also as an example of something even more extreme: I have a P4 that recently did a Cullen LLR, took 224k seconds, and only claimed 557 credit.
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Daniel,
You said I'm not exactly an authority on this stuff... Well you seem to be now!
I'd be interested to see how many credits you actually receive on that Cullen LLR WU when it's validated.
Thanks,
Pete. |
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Scott Brown Volunteer moderator Project administrator Volunteer tester Project scientist
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Joined: 17 Oct 05 Posts: 2416 ID: 1178 Credit: 19,969,642,837 RAC: 19,255,196
                                                
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As a comparison, PSP Sieves processed during the challenge were coming in at 21mins on each of the 4 cores on my 9550. That equates to c. 330 credits per hour. If I get the 4x960 credits for the Cullen LLR then that will be 105 credits per hour. Thanks again for the explanations regarding disparity between 32bit and 64bit applications. I don't expect to get the same level of credit for processing these mammoth LLR WUs as the 'shorter' and easier on the processor sieves. LLRs are more likely to produce invalid results as well, more reasons to get back to sieving asap.
Don't forget that sieves benefit considerably from 64-bit OS capabilities, while there is no advantage for LLR's. Thus, if you want to make a more accurate comparison, you need to adjust for the up to 1.7x credit advantage with 64-bit crunching for the PSP sieve. In other words, comparable 32-bit crunching would yield results more in the range of 195 credits per hour rather than 330.
I am not sure why the remaining discrepancy occurs, though I have observed it consistently across more than a dozen different 32-bit systems. Perhaps it is a reward for the much larger non-cpu demand of the sieve applications. For example, the PSP sieve uses about 150mb of RAM per unit. Maybe John can provide some insight into this difference.
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141941*2^4299438-1 is prime!
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One thing to note when considering the discrepancy between fixed and variable rate projects, is there seems to be a premium assigned to the variable rate projects in the actual credit granted. Standard BOINC procedure is to simply award the lowest credit claimed, but at Primegrid, the granted credit is generally higher than both of the claimed.
There doesn't seem to be a consistent ratio, but it does close (or even overshoot) the gap between 32 and 64-bit projects once you also account for the 1.7x advantage.
For example, one of the Cullen LLR done by your Q9550 has validated, and received 1290 credits instead of 963, and the doublechecker only claimed 692 credits.
I obviously don't personally know the inner workings of how Primegrid awards its credit, but looking at all of these factors there does seem to be a method to the madness.
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Since you were curious; the Cullen my machine did finally validated, and it recieved 1084 credits.
Doing a little bit of research and math, it looks like Primegrid assigns credit for LLRs based on the average of the claimed credit of both checkers, times some sort of correction factor. Checking a few WUs from a few different Subprojects showed that the factor seems to be set at about 1.5. (Cullen all appeared to be 1.55, PPS was about 1.4, and I checked two Woodall that were 1.4 and 1.5).
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Thanks for the info.
I've received credit on 7 Cullens, one was quite a while ago that received c. 500 credits, but all the recent ones have received 1,000-1,400 so I'm quite happy with that. I'll need two more validated WUs to get that bronze badge.
Pete. |
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There are also known differences in the BOINC benchmark results for different OSes and different BOINC client versions. If i remember correctly then there are BOINC client versions out there, especially older versions, which result in much higher benchmark numbers on Linux than on Windows for the same system.
I think there are also ways to manipulate the benchmark results (e.g. optimized BOINC clients)
Those are some of the main reason why many projects switched to fixed credits or credits based on calculation steps done by the project application for a certain WU. |
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Going back to John's reply...
SGS is a fixed n search...meaning the WU's don't get longer. All the other LLR searches increase in n with each subsequent WU. Therefore, the WU's get longer.
Is there a reason why credit for other LLR WUs cannot be based on the length of the candidate?
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35 x 2^3587843+1 is prime! |
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