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Message boards : Number crunching : Pi Approximation Day Challenge

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Michael Gutierrez
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Message 156225 - Posted: 8 Jul 2022 | 3:40:44 UTC

As a mechanical engineering student, I love approximating pi. Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of the infinite non-repeating(?) digits, but they have a way of muddling up a tidy back-of-the-napkin calculation. I tend to be a proponent of 𝝿≈3 (and 𝝿≈1 is also really useful in a pinch), but I can appreciate the extra significant figures of 22/7.

What could be a better way to celebrate the quantum-guaranteed imprecision of the human experience, than with a 3-day challenge on the PPS-LLR subproject from 22 July 22:00 UTC to 25 July 22:00 UTC?

More details to follow!

In the meantime, here's some info about the previous 2022 Challenges:

World Water Day Challenge
Geek Pride Day Challenge
M.C. Escher's Birthday Challenge

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Message 156237 - Posted: 8 Jul 2022 | 18:20:23 UTC - in response to Message 156225.

"A 3-day challenge on the PPS-LLR subproject from 22 July 22:00 UTC to 27 July 22:00 UTC?"

Just to be clear, that looks like five days (22nd to 27th), but it says 3. Is it three or five?

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Message 156238 - Posted: 8 Jul 2022 | 18:30:19 UTC

3 = 5. A pi approximation. It could be worse.

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Message 156239 - Posted: 8 Jul 2022 | 18:51:37 UTC

I am 99% confident to say it is 3 days.
And I know Pi as 3.1415926535897 - which really isn't that useful unless you want to say get the circumference of the Universe.

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Message 156240 - Posted: 8 Jul 2022 | 19:55:30 UTC

Challenge table says 22nd~25th.

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Message 156241 - Posted: 9 Jul 2022 | 0:57:58 UTC - in response to Message 156240.

Yep, challenge series says 22-25 July. I wouldn't mind two extra days though.

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Message 156244 - Posted: 9 Jul 2022 | 3:16:20 UTC - in response to Message 156241.

3.14 days it is lol maybe.
Thanks guys

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Message 156245 - Posted: 9 Jul 2022 | 5:12:43 UTC

A week ago I bought myself a very cheap 2P (2x12c) Xeon server.

Er, I bought myself a very nice used computer case that happened to come with a 2P Xeon server inside. This is not the first time this has happened to me, either, though it is the first time I knew there was going to be a system included.

Anyway, it'll be all set up to run just in time to break it in with the challenge. Whoopee!

--------------

For those of you looking for a "should I multithread?" suggestion:

If you have less than 2MB of L3 cache per core (L2+L3 for Skylake-X/SP and newer HEDT/Xeon parts), running 2 threads/task will keep everything within the CPU. (You may still wish to test throughput for yourself, as YMMV).

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Message 156284 - Posted: 11 Jul 2022 | 16:43:10 UTC - in response to Message 156244.

3.14 days it is lol maybe.
Thanks guys

Hm. If it's Pi Approximation Day, should the challenge be Pi days long, ending on July 26, 01:23:54?
Or should it be 22/7 days long, which is 109 seconds longer, ending at July 26, 01:25:43?

I'm looking for a second opinion. ;)

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Message 156285 - Posted: 11 Jul 2022 | 17:22:51 UTC - in response to Message 156284.

3.14 days it is lol maybe.
Thanks guys

Hm. If it's Pi Approximation Day, should the challenge be Pi days long, ending on July 26, 01:23:54?
Or should it be 22/7 days long, which is 109 seconds longer, ending at July 26, 01:25:43?

I'm looking for a second opinion. ;)

I love this idea.
I am not sure what it could be.
3 days seems a nice approximation.

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Message 156287 - Posted: 11 Jul 2022 | 18:31:15 UTC

The Antikythera mechanism has a gear with 223 teeth. If it meshed with a gear having 71 teeth, it would produce an even closer approximation of Pi than 22/7.

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Message 156288 - Posted: 11 Jul 2022 | 18:47:51 UTC - in response to Message 156287.

The Antikythera mechanism has a gear with 223 teeth. If it meshed with a gear having 71 teeth, it would produce an even closer approximation of Pi than 22/7.

Lots of teeth - I don't know what I am trying to say, but less teeth could be good.

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Message 156289 - Posted: 11 Jul 2022 | 19:01:41 UTC - in response to Message 156288.

The Antikythera mechanism has a gear with 223 teeth. If it meshed with a gear having 71 teeth, it would produce an even closer approximation of Pi than 22/7.

Lots of teeth - I don't know what I am trying to say, but less teeth could be good.

Close enough to be within 75 parts in 100,000 from Pi.

Michael Gutierrez
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Message 156290 - Posted: 11 Jul 2022 | 21:22:33 UTC - in response to Message 156238.

3 = 5. A pi approximation. It could be worse.

I like the way you think!!

But yes it is in fact 3 days, from 7/22 thru 7/25, i simply failed at single-digit arithmetic while writing that post :P
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Michael Gutierrez
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Message 156359 - Posted: 17 Jul 2022 | 15:55:47 UTC

Welcome to the Pi Approximation Day Challenge!

The fifth challenge of the 2022 Series will be a 3-day challenge celebrating the day that our arbitrary measurement units for the Earth's rotation align to numerically resemble the fraction 22/7, which approximates the value of the infamous circle constant 'pi' with an error of 400ppm! Honestly, I'm not sure why March 14th gets all the love -- 3.14 is a much worse approximation for pi!

The challenge will be offered on the PPS-LLR application, beginning 22 July 22:00 UTC and ending 25 July 22:00 UTC. To participate in the Challenge, please select only the Proth Prime Search LLR (PPS) project in your PrimeGrid preferences section.

Note on LLR2 tasks: LLR2 has eliminated the need for a full doublecheck task on each workunit, but has replaced it with a short verification task. Expect to receive a few tasks about 1% of normal length.

Application builds are available for Linux 32 and 64 bit, Windows 32 and 64 bit and MacIntel. Intel and recent AMD CPUs with FMA3 capabilities (Haswell or better for Intel, Zen-2 or better for AMD) will have a very large advantage, and Intel CPUs with dual AVX-512 (certain recent Intel Skylake-X and Xeon CPUs) will be the fastest.

Note that LLR is running the latest AVX-512 version of LLR which takes full advantage of the features of these newer CPUs. It's faster than the previous LLR app and draws more power and produces more heat, especially if they're highly overclocked. If you have certain recent Intel Skylake-X and Xeon CPUs, especially if it's overclocked or has overclocked memory, and haven't run the new AVX-512 LLR before, we strongly suggest running it before the challenge while you are monitoring the temperatures.

Multi-threading is supported and IS recommended for slower computers. (PPS tasks on one CPU core will take ~1 hour on fast/newer computers and 8 hours+ on slower/older computers.)

Those looking to maximize their computer's performance during this challenge, or when running LLR in general, may find this information useful.

• Your mileage may vary. Before the challenge starts, take some time and experiment and see what works best on your computer.
• If you have a CPU with hyperthreading or SMT, either turn off this feature in the BIOS, or set BOINC to use 50% of the processors.

• If you're using a GPU for other tasks, it may be beneficial to leave hyperthreading on in the BIOS and instead tell BOINC to use 50% of the CPU's. This will allow one of the hyperthreads to service the GPU.

• The new multi-threading system is now live. Click here to set the maximum number of threads. This will allow you to select multi-threading from the project preferences web page. No more app_config.xml. It works like this:

• In the preferences selection, there are selections for "max jobs" and "max cpus", similar to the settings in app_config.
• Unlike app_config, these two settings apply to ALL apps. You can't chose 1 thread for SGS and 4 for SoB. When you change apps, you need to change your multithreading settings if you want to run a different number of threads.
• There will be individual settings for each venue (location).
• The hyperthreading control isn't possible at this time.
• The "max cpus" control will only apply to LLR apps. The "max jobs" control applies to all apps.

• If you want to continue to use app_config.xml for LLR tasks, you need to change it if you want it to work. Please see this message for more information.
• Some people have observed that when using multithreaded LLR, hyperthreading is actually beneficial. We encourage you to experiment and see what works best for you.

Time zone converter:

The World Clock - Time Zone Converter

NOTE: The countdown clock on the front page uses the host computer time. Therefore, if your computer time is off, so will the countdown clock. For precise timing, use the UTC Time in the data section at the very top, above the countdown clock.

Scoring Information

Scores will be kept for individuals and teams. Only tasks issued AFTER 22 July 22:00 UTC and received BEFORE 25 July 22:00 UTC will be considered for credit. We will be using the same scoring method as we currently use for BOINC credits. A quorum of 2 is NOT needed to award Challenge score - i.e. no double checker. Therefore, each returned result will earn a Challenge score. Please note that if the result is eventually declared invalid, the score will be removed.

At the Conclusion of the Challenge

ABORTING tasks allows them to be recycled immediately; thus a much faster "clean up" to the end of an LLR Challenge. DETACHING, RESETTING, and PAUSING tasks causes them to remain in limbo until they EXPIRE. Therefore, we must wait until tasks expire to send them out to be completed.

Please consider either completing what's in the queue or ABORTING them. Thank you. :)

The Proth Prime Search is done in collaboration with the Proth Search project. This search looks for primes in the form of k*2^n+1. With the condition 2^n > k, these are often called Proth primes. This project also has the added bonus of possibly finding factors of "classical" Fermat numbers or Generalized Fermat numbers. As this requires PrimeFormGW (PFGW) (a primality-testing program), once PrimeGrid finds a prime, it is then tested on PrimeGrid's servers for divisibility.

Our initial goal was to double check all previous work up to n=500K for odd k<1200 and to fill in any gaps that were missed. We have accomplished that now and have increased it to n=800K. PG LLRNet searched up to n=200,000 and found several missed primes in previously searched ranges. Although primes that small did not make it into the Top 5000 Primes database, the work was still important as it may have led to new factors for "classical" Fermat numbers or Generalized Fermat numbers. While there are many GFN factors, currently there are only about 275 "classical" Fermat number factors known. Current primes found in PPS definitely make it into the Top 5000 Primes database.

Once the 800K goal is reached, we may head to 1M before turning our focus to smaller k values and higher n values. For example, k<300 complete to n=2M, k<600 complete to n=1.5M and so on.

The Proth Search project was established in 1998 by Ray Ballinger and Wilfrid Keller to coordinate a distributed effort to find Proth primes (primes of the form k*2^n+1) for k < 300. Ray was interested in finding primes while Wilfrid was interested in finding divisors of Fermat number. Since that time it has expanded to include k < 1200. Mark Rodenkirch (aka rogue) has been helping Ray keep the website up to date for the past few years.

Early in 2008, PrimeGrid and Proth Search teamed up to provide a software managed distributed effort to the search. Although it might appear that PrimeGrid is duplicating some of the Proth Search effort by re-doing some ranges, few ranges on Proth Search were ever double-checked. This has resulted in PrimeGrid finding primes that were missed by previous searchers. By the end of 2008, all new primes found by PrimeGrid were eligible for inclusion in Chris Caldwell's Prime Pages Top 5000. Sometime in 2009, over 90% of the tests handed out by PrimeGrid were numbers that have never been tested. For 2010, we hope to complete our reservation to 800K and extend it to 1M.

PrimeGrid intends to continue the search indefinitely for Proth primes.

What is LLR?

The Lucas-Lehmer-Riesel (LLR) test is a primality test for numbers of the form N = k*2^n − 1, with 2^n > k. Also, LLR is a program developed by Jean Penne that can run the LLR-tests. It includes the Proth test to perform +1 tests and PRP to test non base 2 numbers. See also:

What is LLR2?

LLR2 is an improvement to the LLR application developed by our very own Pavel Atnashev and stream. It utilizes Gerbicz checks to enable the Fast DoubleCheck feature, which will nearly double the speed of PrimeGrid's progress on the projects it's applied to. For more information, see this forum post.
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Message 156380 - Posted: 19 Jul 2022 | 9:02:05 UTC

22/7 is an excellent approximation of π which was known to Archimedes of Syracuse in the 3rd century BCE. In China in the 5th century CE, Zu Chongzhi called 22/7 yuelü, and he knew the formidable approximation 355/133 which he called milü. /JeppeSN

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Message 156382 - Posted: 19 Jul 2022 | 11:39:22 UTC

This may be too off subject - please hide if it is.

Pi is a random number generator.
Is it useful for cryptography?

But what it may be useful for is personal encryption.
And yet it may not be because pi has known numbers.

Much better off with a random phrase and tweak it a bit.

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Message 156385 - Posted: 19 Jul 2022 | 20:05:08 UTC - in response to Message 156382.

I guess there is no proof the digits of π behave like a random sequence. But on the other hand, I think nobody ever found any "empirical" skewness or asymmetry in the digit sequence (other than what one would expect from a truly random sequence). Using the sequence for some cryptographic application would be unadvisable since this sequence is so well-known.

The digits of 22/7 are: 3.142857 142857 142857 142857 142857 ...

/JeppeSN

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Message 156386 - Posted: 20 Jul 2022 | 2:08:22 UTC - in response to Message 156380.

... and he knew the formidable approximation 355/133 which he called milü. /JeppeSN

There was a typo there :)
It's 355/113
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Message 156387 - Posted: 20 Jul 2022 | 5:09:49 UTC - in response to Message 156380.

Indeed this is rather 355/113 :)

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Message 156410 - Posted: 22 Jul 2022 | 19:48:23 UTC

That was a silly typo.

Any guesses on the number of PPS primes found during the challenge (main task sent out and returned within challenge time interval (proof tasks disregarded))?

/JeppeSN

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Message 156411 - Posted: 22 Jul 2022 | 20:08:16 UTC - in response to Message 156410.

I'll throw out 100, but I'm not really familiar with the current PPS expected-tasks-per-prime rate.
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Message 156412 - Posted: 22 Jul 2022 | 21:15:38 UTC

I'll take a calculated guess:

Of the current total of tasks, if they complete during the challenge, I guess we will find:

107 primes, of wich quite a few will be MegaPrimes :)

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Message 156414 - Posted: 22 Jul 2022 | 21:46:43 UTC - in response to Message 156412.

i'll guess 34
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Message 156415 - Posted: 22 Jul 2022 | 22:00:42 UTC

41
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My lucky number is 6219*2^3374198+1

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Message 156416 - Posted: 22 Jul 2022 | 22:03:17 UTC - in response to Message 156412.

this challenge is for PPS and not PPS-MEGA, right? Is PPS searching for values that could be 1m+ digits? Ill hazard a completely random guess of 45 primes during the challenge as well.

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Message 156417 - Posted: 22 Jul 2022 | 22:03:54 UTC - in response to Message 156412.

I'll take a calculated guess:

Of the current total of tasks, if they complete during the challenge, I guess we will find:

107 primes, of wich quite a few will be MegaPrimes :)

Not a MEGA challenge, my friend. Hope you just have plain old PPS selected.
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Message 156418 - Posted: 22 Jul 2022 | 22:06:20 UTC - in response to Message 156417.

I'll take a calculated guess:

Of the current total of tasks, if they complete during the challenge, I guess we will find:

107 primes, of wich quite a few will be MegaPrimes :)

Not a MEGA challenge, my friend. Hope you just have plain old PPS selected.

I think he means we'll be finishing non-MEGA PPS soon and jumping towards MEGA territory
____________
My lucky number is 6219*2^3374198+1

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Message 156420 - Posted: 22 Jul 2022 | 23:14:37 UTC - in response to Message 156415.

41

42! 😆 🚀
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Message 156423 - Posted: 22 Jul 2022 | 23:56:15 UTC

54
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Message 156424 - Posted: 23 Jul 2022 | 1:58:17 UTC - in response to Message 156423.

76 my guess

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Message 156426 - Posted: 23 Jul 2022 | 3:04:46 UTC

79
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Message 156428 - Posted: 23 Jul 2022 | 3:30:54 UTC

A very optimistic crowd...we found 83 PPS Mega primes in the TdP this year, so I think our three day venture with primes just a bit below that size is going go be a little less fruitful than most guesses thus far.

I will guess 5 primes found in the challenge.

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Message 156429 - Posted: 23 Jul 2022 | 3:43:49 UTC

22/7 rounded up is 4, so 4 primes will be found in the challenge.
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Badge score: 2x3 + 5x4 + 5x5 + 5x7 + 1x9 + 3x10 = 125

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Message 156430 - Posted: 23 Jul 2022 | 5:00:18 UTC - in response to Message 156418.

I think he means we'll be finishing non-MEGA PPS soon and jumping towards MEGA territory

Correct :)

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Message 156431 - Posted: 23 Jul 2022 | 5:41:23 UTC

It seems that Pi is equal to the value we know in Euclidean space.
Or more to the point, in Euclidean space, the circumference of a circle is 2 pi r.
In a Universe with positive curvature, the circumference of a circle is less than 2 pi r.
In a Universe with negative curvature (hyperbolic), the circumference of a circle is more than 2 pi r.
For a moment I thought we might be able to change the value of Pi if we discovered the universe to be not flat. Pi=3 would be nice.

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Message 156432 - Posted: 23 Jul 2022 | 6:14:01 UTC

I'm sticking to round numbers, so 32.

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Message 156438 - Posted: 23 Jul 2022 | 10:18:12 UTC

12 hours into the challenge, here are the stats:

Challenge: Pi Approximation Day
App: 10 (PPS-LLR)
Fast DC tasks are NOT included.
(As of 2022-07-23 10:15:34 UTC)

166421 tasks have been sent out. [CPU/GPU/anonymous_platform: 166421 (100%) / 0 (0%) / 0 (0%)]

Of those tasks that have been sent out:

523 (0%) were aborted. [523 (0%) / 0 (0%) / 0 (0%)]
45 (0%) came back with some kind of an error. [45 (0%) / 0 (0%) / 0 (0%)]
105456 (63%) have returned a successful result. [105489 (63%) / 0 (0%) / 0 (0%)]
60447 (36%) are still in progress. [60451 (36%) / 0 (0%) / 0 (0%)]

Of the tasks that have been returned successfully:

19264 (18%) are pending validation. [19297 (18%) / 0 (0%) / 0 (0%)]
86192 (82%) have been successfully validated. [86192 (82%) / 0 (0%) / 0 (0%)]
6 (0%) were invalid. [6 (0%) / 0 (0%) / 0 (0%)]
0 (0%) are inconclusive. [0 (0%) / 0 (0%) / 0 (0%)]

The current leading edge (i.e., latest work unit for which work has actually been sent out to a host) is n=3305680. The leading edge was at n=3295530 at the beginning of the challenge. Since the challenge started, the leading edge has advanced 0.31% as much as it had prior to the challenge!
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Message 156444 - Posted: 23 Jul 2022 | 17:44:07 UTC - in response to Message 156410.

Hello!
I'll guess we will find 7 primes; I used π! rounded down 🤓😤

Good Luck and Happy Hunting!

With regards,

Hans Sveen
Oslo
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Message 156447 - Posted: 23 Jul 2022 | 22:29:44 UTC

I'll also go with 5. I think 10 and above is unrealistic.
____________
Badge score: 5*1 + 6*1 + 7*8 + 8*5 + 10*2 + 11*2 + 12*1 + 13*1 = 174

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Message 156448 - Posted: 23 Jul 2022 | 22:49:58 UTC - in response to Message 156431.

It seems that Pi is equal to the value we know in Euclidean space.
Or more to the point, in Euclidean space, the circumference of a circle is 2 pi r.
In a Universe with positive curvature, the circumference of a circle is less than 2 pi r.
In a Universe with negative curvature (hyperbolic), the circumference of a circle is more than 2 pi r.
For a moment I thought we might be able to change the value of Pi if we discovered the universe to be not flat. Pi=3 would be nice.

But if you define pi as circumference divided by diameter, that must be for a circle in flat space (curvature zero). If our universe happens to have nonzero curvature (on the big average; local curvature varies with the lumps of mass that happen to be nearby), it will not affect the value of pi.

If space has a constant positive curvature, the ratio of the circumference to the diameter of a (cosmological scale) circle depends on how big that circle is! It cannot be just 3 (except for some circle with a very specific size which depends on the (positive) value of the curvature).

/JeppeSN

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Message 156449 - Posted: 23 Jul 2022 | 23:00:34 UTC - in response to Message 156447.

I'll also go with 5. I think 10 and above is unrealistic.

10 have been found so far according to Discord, so the guesses will need to be larger.
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Message 156451 - Posted: 23 Jul 2022 | 23:18:03 UTC - in response to Message 156449.

I'll also go with 5. I think 10 and above is unrealistic.

10 have been found so far according to Discord, so the guesses will need to be larger.

Yes! Some (not all) of the found primes can be seen already on https://www.primegrid.com/primes/primes.php?project=PPS&factors=XGF&sortby=date. /JeppeSN

Gibson Praise

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Message 156453 - Posted: 23 Jul 2022 | 23:45:46 UTC - in response to Message 156449.

I'll also go with 5. I think 10 and above is unrealistic.

10 have been found so far according to Discord, so the guesses will need to be larger.

Having failed so spectacularly, I think I will just watch from the sidelines!
____________
Badge score: 5*1 + 6*1 + 7*8 + 8*5 + 10*2 + 11*2 + 12*1 + 13*1 = 174

Werinbert

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Message 156454 - Posted: 24 Jul 2022 | 0:40:59 UTC

10 have been found so far according to Discord, so the guesses will need to be larger.
irrational exuberance....
____________
Werinbert is not prime... or PRPnet keeps telling me so.
Badge score: 2x3 + 5x4 + 5x5 + 5x7 + 1x9 + 3x10 = 125

Monkeydee
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Message 156457 - Posted: 24 Jul 2022 | 6:05:47 UTC - in response to Message 156453.

I'll also go with 5. I think 10 and above is unrealistic.

10 have been found so far according to Discord, so the guesses will need to be larger.

Having failed so spectacularly, I think I will just watch from the sidelines!

I guessed 8 and thought I was being optimistic...
So far 6 have been verified and posted in the PG primes list and we're only 32 hours in
____________
My Primes
Badge Score: 4*2 + 6*2 + 7*4 + 8*9 + 11*3 + 12*1 = 165

Dave

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Message 156462 - Posted: 24 Jul 2022 | 7:02:06 UTC

PPS has now crossed over into mega:

1 095 979 454 CPU F MT Proth Prime Search (LLR

JeppeSN

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Message 156464 - Posted: 24 Jul 2022 | 7:11:00 UTC - in response to Message 156462.

PPS has now crossed over into mega:

1 095 979 454 CPU F MT Proth Prime Search (LLR

Milestone!

As explained in this post it also means we are at lower k, on average.

Before: 100 < k < 1200
Now: 50 < k < 740

Rows between 50 and 100 have become white on https://www.primegrid.com/stats_pps_llr.php.

/JeppeSN

Hans Sveen

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Message 156471 - Posted: 24 Jul 2022 | 16:00:58 UTC - in response to Message 156444.

Hello !

About time; I found a new prime, the last one was a Fermat Divisor Prime on
2019-10-02 and the last doublechecker was a Proth Prime found 2020-09-01!

Regarding my last post, failing to guess the number of primes found during this
challenge I missed big but my number 7 was my place in number found since the start
of the challenge!!!!😁

Hans Sveen
Oslo

____________
MyStats

Eudy Silva

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Message 156473 - Posted: 24 Jul 2022 | 16:44:09 UTC - in response to Message 156462.

PPS has now crossed over into mega:

1 095 979 454 CPU F MT Proth Prime Search (LLR

That's nice !
____________

"Accidit in puncto, quod non contingit in anno."
Something that does not occur in a year may, perchance, happen in a moment.

Dave

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Message 156475 - Posted: 24 Jul 2022 | 18:02:09 UTC - in response to Message 156473.

PPS has now crossed over into mega:

1 095 979 454 CPU F MT Proth Prime Search (LLR

That's nice !

Would be even nicer if I'd included the final parenthesis.

Now the equilibrium of the universe is forever compromised.

Eudy Silva

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Message 156477 - Posted: 24 Jul 2022 | 19:33:11 UTC - in response to Message 156475.

PPS has now crossed over into mega:

1 095 979 454 CPU F MT Proth Prime Search (LLR

That's nice !

Would be even nicer if I'd included the final parenthesis.

Now the equilibrium of the universe is forever compromised.

)
____________

"Accidit in puncto, quod non contingit in anno."
Something that does not occur in a year may, perchance, happen in a moment.

Michael Goetz
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Message 156478 - Posted: 24 Jul 2022 | 20:22:01 UTC - in response to Message 156447.

I'll also go with 5. I think 10 and above is unrealistic.

10 were found on the first day of the challenge.

There undoubtedly have been as many or even more on the second day, but the server is having some problems and is way, way behind in processing the results. It will be a while before the primes are disclosed.
____________
My lucky number is 75898524288+1

Michael Millerick
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Message 156481 - Posted: 24 Jul 2022 | 22:50:51 UTC - in response to Message 156478.

but the server is having some problems and is way, way behind in processing the results. It will be a while before the primes are disclosed.

It definitely points to why a PPSE challenge with LLR2 in place would not be feasible.
____________

Michael Goetz
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Message 156496 - Posted: 25 Jul 2022 | 15:32:06 UTC

**VERY** IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT

The administrators may need to end this challenge early, without notice. There's been unanticipated problems with the server, and it may not make it to 22:00. We therefore may end the challenge abruptly and without warning by shutting down the server until we can process the backlog.

If you're bunkering tasks until the last minute, you may not be able to return them during the challenge.

We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.

Grebuloner
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Message 156499 - Posted: 25 Jul 2022 | 16:01:32 UTC

Most unfortunate if it comes to pass! I'm guessing that "shutting down the server" means all subprojects will be impacted?

Regardless, it's my turn for a local heatwave to hit, so I've already NNT'd some of my systems early so as not to cook the house more than mother nature is.
____________
Eating more cheese on Thursdays.

Michael Goetz
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Message 156500 - Posted: 25 Jul 2022 | 16:15:14 UTC - in response to Message 156499.

Most unfortunate if it comes to pass! I'm guessing that "shutting down the server" means all subprojects will be impacted?

Regardless, it's my turn for a local heatwave to hit, so I've already NNT'd some of my systems early so as not to cook the house more than mother nature is.

Yes, all subprojects.

Many of us are already setting our computers to No-New-Work, or switching to other projects. Every bit helps.
____________
My lucky number is 75898524288+1

xii5ku

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Message 156502 - Posted: 25 Jul 2022 | 16:44:26 UTC - in response to Message 156500.

I just read the news. I ran with a ~0.2 d cache because of unreliable internet link. Would it help to suspend the work until after the challenge, or to abort+report right now? (At a minor risk of getting overtaken.)

Edit: I guess a likely answer to this question is No. It's No if the issues are related to the database size, from what I understand of the boinc server functions.

Edit 2: On my bigger computers, I temporarily suspended all main tasks now in order to get all buffered verification tasks completed ASAP. Will resume the main tasks after all verification tasks were done. (I already set NNW before I posted the question.)

Nick

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Message 156504 - Posted: 25 Jul 2022 | 17:14:24 UTC

Did someone manage to fix that within about 5 minutes?

Tern
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Message 156505 - Posted: 25 Jul 2022 | 17:38:35 UTC - in response to Message 156504.

They're trying to keep a disk drive from filling up. There's a bottleneck in processing the extra-large files returned from LLR2 and there's not enough storage space. I don't think it's "down" yet, maybe bouncing a bit... but highly unlikely to run without problems until the end of the challenge. Many are shutting down their crunchers, so the load has dropped a LITTLE bit...

Michael Goetz
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Message 156506 - Posted: 25 Jul 2022 | 17:47:20 UTC - in response to Message 156502.

It's not related to the database, and aborting unstarted tasks would help, yes.
____________
My lucky number is 75898524288+1

mackerel
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Message 156507 - Posted: 25 Jul 2022 | 17:48:44 UTC - in response to Message 156496.

That's given me incentive to hit NNW as I've been struggling a bit with the heat. Was hoping to finish in a nice position but it isn't happening regardless.

Nick

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Message 156508 - Posted: 25 Jul 2022 | 18:01:09 UTC - in response to Message 156506.

It's not related to the database, and aborting unstarted tasks would help, yes.

I'm aborting all PPS tasks - finishing 4 hours early.

wareyore

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Message 156514 - Posted: 25 Jul 2022 | 19:49:21 UTC

Did they end the challenge early then?

bcavnaugh

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Message 156516 - Posted: 25 Jul 2022 | 20:00:56 UTC

Bummer, most of my completed tasks from the last 12 hours are still trying to upload.

[TA]Skillz

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Message 156517 - Posted: 25 Jul 2022 | 20:19:19 UTC

From what was said on Discord it seems they offloaded the storage to another server. So everything should be getting back to normal real soon.

Michael Millerick
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Message 156519 - Posted: 25 Jul 2022 | 20:28:21 UTC - in response to Message 156516.

Bummer, most of my completed tasks from the last 12 hours are still trying to upload.

Don't give up, try to get some retries through. Everything worked for me when I hit the "Retry now" button on the upload page of BOINC.
____________

dannyridel
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Message 156522 - Posted: 25 Jul 2022 | 22:28:40 UTC

A best ever challenge finish for me in 131st!
____________
My lucky number is 6219*2^3374198+1

Michael Goetz
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Message 156525 - Posted: 25 Jul 2022 | 23:00:28 UTC - in response to Message 156514.

Did they end the challenge early then?

It seems we made it to the end. The server may still die, but at least the challenge is over.
____________
My lucky number is 75898524288+1

Michael Goetz
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Message 156526 - Posted: 26 Jul 2022 | 2:40:03 UTC

Uploads of results (all results, not just PPS) have been disabled.

The next couple of days may be a little rough.
____________
My lucky number is 75898524288+1

robertmiles

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Message 156527 - Posted: 26 Jul 2022 | 3:41:56 UTC

You might let us know if users doing only the check versions of PPS would help you process the results faster and reduce your disk space shortage.

vaughan

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Message 156528 - Posted: 26 Jul 2022 | 4:20:18 UTC

I hope you resolve the hardware issues successfully.
____________

Grebuloner
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Message 156529 - Posted: 26 Jul 2022 | 4:38:13 UTC - in response to Message 156528.

I hope you resolve the hardware issues successfully.

Hear, hear!

And, thinking of a possibly long and hard question for our dedicated admins: if not even 3 days was enough to bring down the system, what will need to be done before the next TdP?

(My wallet is standing by to help with server upgrades...)
____________
Eating more cheese on Thursdays.

Michael Goetz
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Message 156531 - Posted: 26 Jul 2022 | 10:28:59 UTC - in response to Message 156527.

You might let us know if users doing only the check versions of PPS would help you process the results faster and reduce your disk space shortage.

There's no practical way for users to select just DC tasks, and it wouldn't matter if there was because they're so small.

Between the server prioritizing sending out the DC tasks, and them being so small, they get done very quickly.
____________
My lucky number is 75898524288+1

Nick

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Message 156539 - Posted: 26 Jul 2022 | 14:36:08 UTC

I needed to turn on a heater for 10 hours while I wasn't getting work for WW.
That heater has no mathematical ability.
It seems the things are back as they should be.
Being warmed by searching for primes.

JeppeSN

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Message 156545 - Posted: 26 Jul 2022 | 19:15:54 UTC

Thank you all. We found some nice PPS hits, and I suspect some of them are not publicly visible yet. /JeppeSN

[AF>Libristes]Maeda

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Message 156549 - Posted: 27 Jul 2022 | 5:38:53 UTC

Happy to have my very first one (and a Mega!). Luck was with me that day.

mikey

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Message 156555 - Posted: 27 Jul 2022 | 10:33:01 UTC - in response to Message 156549.

Happy to have my very first one (and a Mega!). Luck was with me that day.

CONGRATULATIONS!!!

Michael Gutierrez
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Message 156566 - Posted: 27 Jul 2022 | 18:15:15 UTC

The challenge is over! That was certainly eventful.

We completed a whopping 1,340,402 tasks (including doublechecks).

Sorry for the lack of daily updates, the circumstances made it difficult ;-)

Cleanup is starting now!
____________

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

Eudy Silva

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Message 156567 - Posted: 27 Jul 2022 | 18:27:41 UTC - in response to Message 156549.

Happy to have my very first one (and a Mega!). Luck was with me that day.

Congrats. Starting in great style !
____________

"Accidit in puncto, quod non contingit in anno."
Something that does not occur in a year may, perchance, happen in a moment.

Eudy Silva

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Message 156568 - Posted: 27 Jul 2022 | 18:28:19 UTC - in response to Message 156566.

The challenge is over! That was certainly eventful.

We completed a whopping 1,340,402 tasks (including doublechecks).

Sorry for the lack of daily updates, the circumstances made it difficult ;-)

Cleanup is starting now!

Thank you for your effort in making things work !
____________

"Accidit in puncto, quod non contingit in anno."
Something that does not occur in a year may, perchance, happen in a moment.

JeppeSN

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Message 156578 - Posted: 28 Jul 2022 | 6:29:22 UTC - in response to Message 156451.

I'll also go with 5. I think 10 and above is unrealistic.

10 have been found so far according to Discord, so the guesses will need to be larger.

Yes! Some (not all) of the found primes can be seen already on https://www.primegrid.com/primes/primes.php?project=PPS&factors=XGF&sortby=date. /JeppeSN

By now, many more primes can be seen on that page. /JeppeSN

Yves Gallot
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Message 156579 - Posted: 28 Jul 2022 | 8:06:53 UTC

A Generalized Fermat prime was found! (5 · 2919075)4 + 1.

Michael Gutierrez
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Message 156604 - Posted: 29 Jul 2022 | 18:16:33 UTC

Cleanup Status:

Jul 28: 339274 tasks outstanding; 338292 affecting individual (296) scoring positions; 153945 affecting team (88) scoring positions.
Jul 29: 339274 tasks outstanding; 338292 affecting individual (296) scoring positions; 153945 affecting team (88) scoring positions.
____________

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

JeppeSN

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Message 156609 - Posted: 30 Jul 2022 | 9:32:19 UTC - in response to Message 156579.

A Generalized Fermat prime was found! (5 · 2919075)4 + 1.

Nice.

It is interesting that all primes of form 625*2^n + 1 are also of form b^4 + 1. Because the exponent n cannot be odd (then 3 divides the candidate); and the exponent n also cannot be singly even because of the aurifeuillean factorization:
625*2^(4*j+2) + 1 = 4*(5*2^j)^4 + 1 = (2*(5*2^j)^2 + 2*5*2^j + 1)*(2*(5*2^j)^2 - 2*5*2^j + 1) = (25*2^(2*j+1) + 5*2^(j+1) + 1)*(25*2^(2*j+1) - 5*2^(j+1) + 1)

Then k=625 is an example of a multiplier where PPS-Sieve must be supplemented by algebraic factorization to avoid wasting LLR time on such candidates.

/JeppeSN

Michael Gutierrez
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Message 156621 - Posted: 30 Jul 2022 | 18:50:38 UTC

Cleanup Status:

Jul 30: 7145 tasks outstanding; 1174 affecting individual (100) scoring positions; 51 affecting team (8) scoring positions.
____________

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

robertmiles

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Message 156622 - Posted: 31 Jul 2022 | 2:10:17 UTC - in response to Message 156531.

You might let us know if users doing only the check versions of PPS would help you process the results faster and reduce your disk space shortage.

There's no practical way for users to select just DC tasks, and it wouldn't matter if there was because they're so small.

Between the server prioritizing sending out the DC tasks, and them being so small, they get done very quickly.

It should be possible to tell the server to send out only DC tasks.

However, if that cannot be done without also making it allow uploading of all completed tasks of any kind, I'm not sure it would be useful.

Michael Millerick
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Message 156623 - Posted: 31 Jul 2022 | 10:06:13 UTC - in response to Message 156622.

It should be possible to tell the server to send out only DC tasks.

My understanding of the system is that it already works exactly like that. If there are double check tasks available when a computer queries for new work, it will almost always get the double check work instead of a new initial task.

But with the nature of the new verification process, for PPS 32/33 of the work is initial work while 1/33 is the fast double check work.
____________

WezH

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Message 156662 - Posted: 4 Aug 2022 | 19:16:52 UTC - in response to Message 156621.

Cleanup Status:

Jul 30: 7145 tasks outstanding; 1174 affecting individual (100) scoring positions; 51 affecting team (8) scoring positions.

Update?

Michael Goetz
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Message 156663 - Posted: 4 Aug 2022 | 22:46:11 UTC - in response to Message 156662.

Cleanup Status:

Jul 30: 7145 tasks outstanding; 1174 affecting individual (100) scoring positions; 51 affecting team (8) scoring positions.

Update?

Results are final.
____________
My lucky number is 75898524288+1

Michael Gutierrez
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Message 156694 - Posted: 7 Aug 2022 | 18:33:58 UTC

Apologies for the radio silence, friends! I managed to catch t҉h҉e҉ c҉o҉r҉o҉n҉a҉ and that took me out for a good few days. But anyway,

The results are final!

During the 3 day challenge, we completed ONE million, THREE hundred FORTY thousand, THREE hundred EIGHTY-EIGHT tasks (including doublechecks). This included TWENTY-ONE new PPS primes, of which user parsnip soup in a clay bowl found the biggest proportion of THREE, as well as the first MEGA prime found in the PPS-LLR subproject (at least since 2012, don't @ me), courtesy of tng!

Overall, the challenge boosted the project's average output to over 10 times typical at its peak.

119 teams and 554 individuals participated, making this the highest-attended and highest-output Challenge certainly since I've been challenge coordinator, and likely in the history of PrimeGrid! No wonder we killed the BOINC server!

Top Three Individuals:
1. [TA]Skillz
2. parsnip soup in a clay bowl
3. vaughan

Top Three Teams:
1. TeAm AnandTech
2. Antarctic Crunchers
3. AMD Users

We've got a bit of a rest before the Riemann's Birthday Challenge in mid-September. Until next time!
____________

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.

rogue
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Message 156698 - Posted: 8 Aug 2022 | 17:50:48 UTC

I'm confused at how PPS is being managed now. Most of the p < 50 do not have tests loaded in PPS or PPS Mega and yet there seems to be a gap between what has been tested and the leading edge for other p in that range.

Also, it is very confusing that PPS Mega and PPS have overlapping k. Would it make sense to remove k < 740 from the PPS Mega stats and merge those in the PPS so that they can be found in a single place? I'm guessing the answer is "no" due to how PrimeGrid retains details on completed tests.

stream
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Message 156700 - Posted: 9 Aug 2022 | 2:33:09 UTC - in response to Message 156698.

I'm confused at how PPS is being managed now.

https://www.primegrid.com/forum_thread.php?id=9952&nowrap=true#156262. The plan is final. I think this information will be eventually merged to top post of PPS thread or something like this. An overview page will be updated in few days, as soon as we finish all pending tests below 3.32M.

Most of the p < 50 do not have tests loaded in PPS or PPS Mega and yet there seems to be a gap between what has been tested and the leading edge for other p in that range.

p < 50 already tested up to 9M during DIV project (see link to "overview" in the post above). There is a exception for k=9 and 27, k=27 is already tested now and k=9 will be added as soon as leading edge reaches untested range.

Also, it is very confusing that PPS Mega and PPS have overlapping k. Would it make sense to remove k < 740 from the PPS Mega stats and merge those in the PPS so that they can be found in a single place? I'm guessing the answer is "no" due to how PrimeGrid retains details on completed tests.

I agree that it's confusing so why "overview" page was made. But it's how PG system works. Each test has a project tag attached, "PPS" or "MEG". A range with corresponding tag will be included onto corresponding status page.

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Message 156702 - Posted: 10 Aug 2022 | 18:01:53 UTC

Yes, it is hard because the information is on many pages:

https://www.primegrid.com/stats_321_llr.php

https://www.primegrid.com/stats_pps_llr.php

https://www.primegrid.com/stats_ppse_llr.php

https://www.primegrid.com/stats_mega_llr.php

plus k=27 and k=121 were done at PRPNet (and PPS-DIV treated odd and even exponents differently in a few cases).

Thank you, Stream, for creating the overview.

/JeppeSN

Message boards : Number crunching : Pi Approximation Day Challenge