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Message boards : Number crunching : Intel GPU

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Peter Hucker
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Message 155289 - Posted: 4 May 2022 | 6:18:09 UTC
Last modified: 4 May 2022 | 6:18:51 UTC

I just searched for Intel GPU on Primegrid (I had to use Google, as Boinc forum search is rubbish, and even suggests I try Google!)

7 years ago Boinc began supporting OpenCL on Intel GPU, and a thread discussed you could force it to do some but not all Primegrid tasks on Intel GPU by devious use of config files.

What's the current status of doing such things? (Since I assume it's not supported automatically - I can't see an option on my settings on the site).

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Discovered 6 mega primesEliminated 1 conjecture "k"Found 3 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 5 primes in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 6 primes in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 5 primes in the 2021 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2022 Tour de Primes321 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,736,922)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,154,591)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,207,880)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,714,227)PPS LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (119,960,737)PSP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (16,676,406)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,019,367)SR5 LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (26,030,253)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,361,220)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (34,130)TRP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (38,431,288)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,968,201)321 Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,236,219)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,383,853)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,626,419)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (76,969,144)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,293,882)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,012,757)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (27,813,588)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (91,225,641)WW Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (43,304,000)PSA Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,939,755)
Message 155291 - Posted: 4 May 2022 | 10:53:28 UTC

I vaguely remember reports it didn't give any more throughput compared to using the CPU itself or in addition to it. Guess that is why it never took off?

It might get more interesting in the near future though with Intel supposedly launching their desktop GPU line this quarter, and similar being added to latest mobile CPUs and eventually desktop ones.

Peter Hucker
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Message 155292 - Posted: 4 May 2022 | 11:11:01 UTC - in response to Message 155291.

I vaguely remember reports it didn't give any more throughput compared to using the CPU itself or in addition to it. Guess that is why it never took off?

It might get more interesting in the near future though with Intel supposedly launching their desktop GPU line this quarter, and similar being added to latest mobile CPUs and eventually desktop ones.

I used to take that attitude with all Boinc projects and never used an Intel GPU, but I tried again recently and they do well with the likes of the Einstein Gamma app. And it's only an i5-8600K, not the latest stuff.

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Message 155293 - Posted: 4 May 2022 | 11:23:45 UTC - in response to Message 155292.

I vaguely remember reports it didn't give any more throughput compared to using the CPU itself or in addition to it. Guess that is why it never took off?

It might get more interesting in the near future though with Intel supposedly launching their desktop GPU line this quarter, and similar being added to latest mobile CPUs and eventually desktop ones.


I used to take that attitude with all Boinc projects and never used an Intel GPU, but I tried again recently and they do well with the likes of the Einstein Gamma app. And it's only an i5-8600K, not the latest stuff.


When I looks in the Applications link to the left I see this:

Microsoft Windows (Vista or later) running on an Intel x86-compatible CPU 3.21 (OCLcudaGFN15) 8 May 2019 | 4:55:37 UTC
Microsoft Windows (Vista or later) running on an Intel x86-compatible CPU 3.21 (openclatiGFN15)

There are others there as well, doesn't Cuda and opencl mean gpu?

Peter Hucker
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Message 155295 - Posted: 4 May 2022 | 11:41:22 UTC - in response to Message 155293.

When I looks in the Applications link to the left I see this:

Microsoft Windows (Vista or later) running on an Intel x86-compatible CPU 3.21 (OCLcudaGFN15) 8 May 2019 | 4:55:37 UTC
Microsoft Windows (Vista or later) running on an Intel x86-compatible CPU 3.21 (openclatiGFN15)

There are others there as well, doesn't Cuda and opencl mean gpu?

Yes, I don't understand it. Intel GPUs (onboard graphics) use OpenCL just like AMD (and Nvidia can also), so I don't see why I can't run the AMD one on an Intel. But from what I read here, you can with some fiddling, but I can't find what to do in all that discussion: https://www.primegrid.com/forum_thread.php?id=5356

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321 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,008,611)Cullen LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,005,009)ESP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,041,747)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,000,820)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,094,995)PSP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,049,767)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (32,872,132)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,003,746)SGS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,002,215)TRP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,011,903)Woodall LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,076,850)321 Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,033,828)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,037,204)PPS Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,305,147)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,000,053)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,030,160)AP 26/27 Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,015,953)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (64,248,682)WW Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,712,000)PSA Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (170,761,999)
Message 155296 - Posted: 4 May 2022 | 11:41:42 UTC - in response to Message 155289.

7 years ago Boinc began supporting OpenCL on Intel GPU, and a thread discussed you could force it to do some but not all Primegrid tasks on Intel GPU by devious use of config files.

What's the current status of doing such things? (Since I assume it's not supported automatically - I can't see an option on my settings on the site).

Back in the day, they would offer pitiful performance. You'd think it was better than nothing, but it was actually worse since it would steal RAM bandwidth from the CPU and cripple performance. And although this was before LLR2 and multithreading, this was the case even with SGS and PPSE, which are the smallest projects that fit within cache, so I don't think anything would have changed.

But if you actually want to try it out, you can download the apps and test manually yourself. Genefer works, AP27 has a vram requirement that makes it unusable unless you can set 2gb of vram in bios, and PPS Sieve I'm not sure.

Peter Hucker
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321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (127,924)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (199,800)ESP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (100,513)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (103,984)PPS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (37,821)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (296,574)SoB LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,452,523)SR5 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (89,307)SGS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (121,430)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (123,013)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (240,222)321 Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (30,838)PPS Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,102,067)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (16,965)TRP Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (14,492)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,292,015)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (72,517,762)WW Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,308,000)
Message 155297 - Posted: 4 May 2022 | 12:14:10 UTC - in response to Message 155296.

Back in the day, they would offer pitiful performance. You'd think it was better than nothing, but it was actually worse since it would steal RAM bandwidth from the CPU and cripple performance. And although this was before LLR2 and multithreading, this was the case even with SGS and PPSE, which are the smallest projects that fit within cache, so I don't think anything would have changed.

But if you actually want to try it out, you can download the apps and test manually yourself. Genefer works, AP27 has a vram requirement that makes it unusable unless you can set 2gb of vram in bios, and PPS Sieve I'm not sure.

I don't know what changed, as it's the same Intels I have now, but when I tried it a few years back, all the projects I tried got the same work done as the CPU would have done itself with the GPU idling. But now I try it and get good performance. Maybe it depends on how the project's code is written. I get good work out of Einstein, and a few others, can't remember which ones.

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Discovered 2 mega primes321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,229,892)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,074,615)ESP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,243,517)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,142,353)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,296,792)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,232,103)SoB LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,934,612)SR5 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,071,823)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,780,752)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,681,647)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,014,811)321 Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (23,770,672)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (944,431)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,813,253)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (379,578,052)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,446,797)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (38,416,586)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (78,703,680)WW Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (64,048,000)PSA Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,457,430)
Message 155308 - Posted: 5 May 2022 | 12:51:38 UTC - in response to Message 155297.

Back in the day, they would offer pitiful performance. You'd think it was better than nothing, but it was actually worse since it would steal RAM bandwidth from the CPU and cripple performance. And although this was before LLR2 and multithreading, this was the case even with SGS and PPSE, which are the smallest projects that fit within cache, so I don't think anything would have changed.

But if you actually want to try it out, you can download the apps and test manually yourself. Genefer works, AP27 has a vram requirement that makes it unusable unless you can set 2gb of vram in bios, and PPS Sieve I'm not sure.


I don't know what changed, as it's the same Intels I have now, but when I tried it a few years back, all the projects I tried got the same work done as the CPU would have done itself with the GPU idling. But now I try it and get good performance. Maybe it depends on how the project's code is written. I get good work out of Einstein, and a few others, can't remember which ones.


There are drivers just for crunching on the Intel cpu that let you use the gpu part of it for crunching but I haven't done that in years so don't know which ones you need. In the past like most drivers Microsoft provides the ones they provide can't crunch.

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Discovered 1 mega primeFound 2 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2021 Tour de PrimesFound 3 primes in the 2022 Tour de Primes321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,148,133)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,591,847)ESP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,657,625)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,251,083)PPS LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (29,331,765)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,182,638)SoB LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,923,035)SR5 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,603,308)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,139,194)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (19,376)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,398,689)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,732,873)321 Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,915,071)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,584,236)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,461,309)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (97,322,801)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (352,129)TRP Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (776,202)AP 26/27 Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,368,553)GFN Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (42,522,624)WW Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,044,000)PSA Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,154,617)
Message 155352 - Posted: 9 May 2022 | 14:02:52 UTC

The PPS Sieve OpenCL application was successfully tested on Intel GPU a long time ago.

I think PrimeGrid forked their BOINC server before BOINC introduced Intel GPUs. So adding that may be difficult at this point.

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Discovered 2 mega primesEliminated 1 conjecture "k"Found 3 primes in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2021 Tour de Primes321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,605,531)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,016,794)ESP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,186,009)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,224,466)PPS LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (24,258,719)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,043,852)SoB LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,031,453)SR5 LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (55,428,308)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,035,177)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,740,707)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,046,592)321 Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,440,175)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,911,344)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,077,092)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,200,870)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,034,014)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,070,774)AP 26/27 Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,449,372)GFN Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (157,769,361)WW Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (249,976,000)PSA Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (52,866,806)
Message 155354 - Posted: 9 May 2022 | 15:03:15 UTC - in response to Message 155352.

The PPS Sieve OpenCL application was successfully tested on Intel GPU a long time ago.

I think PrimeGrid forked their BOINC server before BOINC introduced Intel GPUs. So adding that may be difficult at this point.

If that is a barrier, I imagine similar issues will exist when their Arc GPUs become widely available.
____________

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321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (127,924)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (199,800)ESP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (100,513)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (103,984)PPS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (37,821)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (296,574)SoB LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,452,523)SR5 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (89,307)SGS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (121,430)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (123,013)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (240,222)321 Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (30,838)PPS Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,102,067)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (16,965)TRP Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (14,492)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,292,015)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (72,517,762)WW Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,308,000)
Message 155355 - Posted: 9 May 2022 | 16:30:30 UTC - in response to Message 155308.

There are drivers just for crunching on the Intel cpu that let you use the gpu part of it for crunching but I haven't done that in years so don't know which ones you need. In the past like most drivers Microsoft provides the ones they provide can't crunch.

Got a similar problem with an old laptop - Intel only make drivers for the onboard GPU up to Windows 7. The ones that come with Windows 11 cause Boinc not to recognise it as a GPU - presumably the crunching part is missing.

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Message 156361 - Posted: 17 Jul 2022 | 19:13:48 UTC

Intel GPUs are starting to appear and so far the low end and midrange ones are looking competitive. If the higher end ones are competitive, especially from a price/performance standpoint (and appear will use a HECK of a lot less power) hopefully there will be a way to at least manually get BOINC to see them as a GPU?

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Message 156362 - Posted: 17 Jul 2022 | 19:34:54 UTC - in response to Message 156361.

Intel GPUs are starting to appear and so far the low end and midrange ones are looking competitive. If the higher end ones are competitive, especially from a price/performance standpoint (and appear will use a HECK of a lot less power) hopefully there will be a way to at least manually get BOINC to see them as a GPU?
Boinc can see the new ones. The problem is projects not having written code to run on them.

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Message 156364 - Posted: 17 Jul 2022 | 20:33:45 UTC - in response to Message 156362.

Boinc can see the new ones. The problem is projects not having written code to run on them.

??? Projects are written in OpenCL and can run on any GPU supporting OpenCL. genefer runs on Intel iGPUs.
For example on my laptop: Running on platform 'Intel(R) OpenCL', device 'Intel(R) HD Graphics 630', vendor 'Intel(R) Corporation', version 'OpenCL 2.1 NEO ' and driver '23.20.16.4973' and the test is valid.

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Message 156365 - Posted: 17 Jul 2022 | 22:14:31 UTC - in response to Message 156364.

Boinc can see the new ones. The problem is projects not having written code to run on them.

??? Projects are written in OpenCL and can run on any GPU supporting OpenCL. genefer runs on Intel iGPUs.
For example on my laptop: Running on platform 'Intel(R) OpenCL', device 'Intel(R) HD Graphics 630', vendor 'Intel(R) Corporation', version 'OpenCL 2.1 NEO ' and driver '23.20.16.4973' and the test is valid.
How did you make Genefer run on Intel? And will this work on any GPU project?

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Message 156366 - Posted: 17 Jul 2022 | 23:29:38 UTC

I think an interesting opportunity with the Arc cards is if they have better double precision performance than Nvidia cards, and what impact that will have on progress here. I know most of the GPU apps are single precision now, but I do wonder if there could be positive change from cards with more double precision capabilities.
____________

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Discovered 3 mega primesFound 2 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 4 primes in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 3 primes in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 4 primes in the 2021 Tour de PrimesFound 7 primes in the 2022 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2022 Tour de Primes321 LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (46,760,418)Cullen LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,038,566)ESP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,453,074)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,327,156)PPS LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (63,340,486)PSP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,571,669)SoB LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,873,282)SR5 LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (23,807,284)SGS LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,230,633)TRP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (24,211,899)Woodall LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (24,238,438)321 Sieve (suspended) Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (55,630,889)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,178,073)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (56,046,594)PPS Sieve Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (521,014,891)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (9,468,384)TRP Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,076,645)AP 26/27 Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (515,101,493)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (278,220,852)WW Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (790,020,000)PSA Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (126,200,096)
Message 156367 - Posted: 18 Jul 2022 | 0:06:11 UTC - in response to Message 156366.

I think an interesting opportunity with the Arc cards is if they have better double precision performance than Nvidia cards, and what impact that will have on progress here. I know most of the GPU apps are single precision now, but I do wonder if there could be positive change from cards with more double precision capabilities.


It's 1/4 DP rate, which is far better than what Nvidia (1/64) and AMD (1/16) offer these days, but IIRC, that is pretty borderline when applied vs. the various mathematical transforms (not to mention the GFN apps that are beyond the DP OCL limits). But if it can use less power while in DP mode,* then we're talking business.

*Something I haven't tested recently but always found weird in the past was that a GPU with a fractional DP rate always used the same or more power in DP vs. SP. For example, my GTX580 (1/8) used the full 250W, as did its Tesla twin (1/2), with the same underlying silicon, and the original Titans (1/3) had to reduce clocks to run stably in that mode. Considering they're using fixed function units, wouldn't the power usage fraction be approximately twice the DP ratio?
____________
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Message 156368 - Posted: 18 Jul 2022 | 1:10:08 UTC - in response to Message 156366.

I think an interesting opportunity with the Arc cards is if they have better double precision performance than Nvidia cards, and what impact that will have on progress here. I know most of the GPU apps are single precision now, but I do wonder if there could be positive change from cards with more double precision capabilities.
This is why I use AMD. Twice the DP. Useful for Milkyway At Home.

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Message 156370 - Posted: 18 Jul 2022 | 9:52:47 UTC - in response to Message 156365.

How did you make Genefer run on Intel? And will this work on any GPU project?

You can set the -intel option to the command line: geneferocl_windows.exe -intel -q "112996304^131072+1"
geneferocl 3.3.4 (Windows/OpenCL/32-bit) Copyright 2001-2018, Yves Gallot Copyright 2009, Mark Rodenkirch, David Underbakke Copyright 2010-2012, Shoichiro Yamada, Ken Brazier Copyright 2011-2014, Michael Goetz, Ronald Schneider Copyright 2011-2018, Iain Bethune Genefer is free source code, under the MIT license. Running on platform 'Intel(R) OpenCL', device 'Intel(R) HD Graphics 630', vendor 'Intel(R) Corporation', version 'OpenCL 2.1 NEO ' and driver '23.20.16.4973'. 23 computeUnits @ 1000MHz, memSize=1638MB, cacheSize=512kB, cacheLineSize=64B, localMemSize=64kB, maxWorkGroupSize=256. [...] Testing 112996304^131072+1... Using OCL2 transform

You can configure the file app_info.xml such that a 'CPU' task runs on Intel iGPU.
But it's not efficient because the Intel iGPU doesn't have any VRAM, it has direct access to the system RAM. This slows CPU tasks.

AP27 and WW use Boinc interface. They are able to run on Intel GPUs (OpenCL) but Boinc must support it.
I don't know for PPSsieve, it's a very old and obscure code.

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Message 156373 - Posted: 18 Jul 2022 | 15:44:45 UTC

Is there a standard command I could use on other projects to make an AMD OpenCL task run on Intel?

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Message 157840 - Posted: 15 Nov 2022 | 19:30:13 UTC

so what about discrete Intel GPU now that they are out :)

I own an ARC A750 and I'd be happy to put it to work ;-)
it's a dedicated BOINC system running on Einstein and Numberfield at the moment

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Message 157846 - Posted: 16 Nov 2022 | 5:06:50 UTC - in response to Message 157840.
Last modified: 16 Nov 2022 | 5:07:08 UTC

so what about discrete Intel GPU now that they are out :)

I own an ARC A750 and I'd be happy to put it to work ;-)
it's a dedicated BOINC system running on Einstein and Numberfield at the moment

That one doesn't seem to have any DP at all.

https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/arc-a750.c3929

Don't all projects need a touch of DP?

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Message 157849 - Posted: 16 Nov 2022 | 10:25:42 UTC - in response to Message 157846.
Last modified: 16 Nov 2022 | 10:27:23 UTC


That one doesn't seem to have any DP at all.

https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/arc-a750.c3929

Don't all projects need a touch of DP?

some application/WU run faster with HW FP64, but they run nonetheless without.

See the ARC A750 GPU WU on Einstein@home
here: https://einsteinathome.org/host/13011635/tasks/4/19
and here: https://einsteinathome.org/host/13011635/tasks/4/40

and numberfirld@home GPu WU; https://numberfields.asu.edu/NumberFields/results.php?hostid=2835341&offset=0&show_names=0&state=4&appid=

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Message 157850 - Posted: 16 Nov 2022 | 12:00:43 UTC - in response to Message 157849.
Last modified: 16 Nov 2022 | 12:01:19 UTC

I guess the DP just goes onto the CPU. But I've seen many projects which run at a speed showing me the missing/slow DP on the card is hampering it.

For example I have two cards in this machine, one is 4 Tflops SP the other is 8 Tflops SP, so you'd expect tasks to run twice as fast, but they don't, it varies by project. So I'm assuming the much slower DP on the second card prevents it going twice as fast.

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Message 157851 - Posted: 16 Nov 2022 | 12:18:02 UTC - in response to Message 157850.

I guess the DP just goes onto the CPU. But I've seen many projects which run at a speed showing me the missing/slow DP on the card is hampering it.

For example I have two cards in this machine, one is 4 Tflops SP the other is 8 Tflops SP, so you'd expect tasks to run twice as fast, but they don't, it varies by project. So I'm assuming the much slower DP on the second card prevents it going twice as fast.


DP is Dual Precision and most projects do not need it, it relates to gpu's only and has to do with how the task progresses thru it's calculations AMD gpu's used to have great DP while Nvidia has never had good relationships between SP and DP. If you scroll down thru this chart you can see the SP to DP ratios of the different cards, you have to get down to the Geforce 4?? series before you start seeing the DP numbers.
[url[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nvidia_graphics_processing_units#Compute_capability_table[/url]

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Message 157854 - Posted: 16 Nov 2022 | 12:36:47 UTC - in response to Message 157850.

I guess the DP just goes onto the CPU. But I've seen many projects which run at a speed showing me the missing/slow DP on the card is hampering it.

For example I have two cards in this machine, one is 4 Tflops SP the other is 8 Tflops SP, so you'd expect tasks to run twice as fast, but they don't, it varies by project. So I'm assuming the much slower DP on the second card prevents it going twice as fast.


or the FP64 (DP) part goes to FP32 (SP) :)
in any case, tasks are completing, science is progressing.
every little helps :)

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Message 157856 - Posted: 16 Nov 2022 | 14:00:19 UTC - in response to Message 157851.
Last modified: 16 Nov 2022 | 14:00:32 UTC

For example I have two cards in this machine, one is 4 Tflops SP the other is 8 Tflops SP, so you'd expect tasks to run twice as fast, but they don't, it varies by project. So I'm assuming the much slower DP on the second card prevents it going twice as fast.

DP is Dual Precision and most projects do not need it,

If that were true, why does my Fury not always go twice as fast as my Tahiti?

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Message 157857 - Posted: 16 Nov 2022 | 14:01:52 UTC - in response to Message 157854.
Last modified: 16 Nov 2022 | 14:02:38 UTC

or the FP64 (DP) part goes to FP32 (SP) :)
in any case, tasks are completing, science is progressing.
every little helps :)

There was a project (I think WCG or Folding) which refused to write an app for Intel because they needed DP, even though it was a small amount. So I don't think it can always be shifted elsewhere.

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Message 157858 - Posted: 16 Nov 2022 | 14:13:34 UTC

genefer is running on Intel Arc http://www.primegrid.com/result.php?resultid=1408521345
appinfo.xml is currently needed but it will be fixed.
It is important to distinguish GPU and iGPU.

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Message 157859 - Posted: 16 Nov 2022 | 14:17:24 UTC - in response to Message 157858.

genefer is running on Intel Arc http://www.primegrid.com/result.php?resultid=1408521345
appinfo.xml is currently needed but it will be fixed.
It is important to distinguish GPU and iGPU.

Why do the built in GPUs not work aswell? What is the difference?

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Message 157860 - Posted: 16 Nov 2022 | 14:45:45 UTC - in response to Message 157859.

Why do the built in GPUs not work aswell? What is the difference?

They do work, and you could certainly run them through app_info.

But the reason PG doesn't support it by default is that is simply not worth it. Not only does it run very slowly, running on the iGPU also severely cripples the CPU performance because of memory bottleneck, so much so that you end up losing overall throughput all things considered. So the executive decision was made to stop people from trying to use intel iGPU in hopes of avoiding people getting baited by it.

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Message 157861 - Posted: 16 Nov 2022 | 14:50:41 UTC - in response to Message 157860.
Last modified: 16 Nov 2022 | 14:51:12 UTC

They do work, and you could certainly run them through app_info.

I'd love to know how.

But the reason PG doesn't support it by default is that is simply not worth it. Not only does it run very slowly, running on the iGPU also severely cripples the CPU performance because of memory bottleneck, so much so that you end up losing overall throughput all things considered. So the executive decision was made to stop people from trying to use intel iGPU in hopes of avoiding people getting baited by it.

I used to think that, then did some measurements on Einstein. Far more work achieved running the iGPU then the rest of the CPU on normal cores.

I have multi channel memory as fast as the CPU allows, I don't get bottlenecks.

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Message 157862 - Posted: 16 Nov 2022 | 17:03:54 UTC - in response to Message 157861.

Ultra fast ddr5 ram is still slow compared to onboard gpu vram. You could be faster then a 730 with ddr3 vram but a similar era cpu vs similar era gpu will be much much slower ram
____________
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Message 157863 - Posted: 16 Nov 2022 | 17:09:13 UTC - in response to Message 157862.
Last modified: 16 Nov 2022 | 17:09:39 UTC

Ultra fast ddr5 ram is still slow compared to onboard gpu vram. You could be faster then a 730 with ddr3 vram but a similar era cpu vs similar era gpu will be much much slower ram

Yes, slower than the GPU, but faster than the CPU. Using the iGPU doesn't slow the CPU much, and it's faster than it anyway. Just go look on Einstein where they've been discussing the new radio wave stuff on different chips.

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Message 157864 - Posted: 16 Nov 2022 | 17:37:08 UTC - in response to Message 157863.

Ultra fast ddr5 ram is still slow compared to onboard gpu vram. You could be faster then a 730 with ddr3 vram but a similar era cpu vs similar era gpu will be much much slower ram

Yes, slower than the GPU, but faster than the CPU. Using the iGPU doesn't slow the CPU much, and it's faster than it anyway. Just go look on Einstein where they've been discussing the new radio wave stuff on different chips.


Primegrid isn't Einstein. Different apps, different optimizations, and different CPU/GPU resource allocations & needs lead to different experiences.
____________
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Message 157865 - Posted: 16 Nov 2022 | 18:35:46 UTC - in response to Message 157864.

since the Intel Discrete GPU like the A750 support opencl 3, why not have an OpenCL Intel as we already have OpenCL ATI or OpenCL Nvidia ?
Should cost much in development time at all :)

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Message 157866 - Posted: 16 Nov 2022 | 18:36:57 UTC - in response to Message 157865.

since the Intel Discrete GPU like the A750 support opencl 3, why not have an OpenCL Intel as we already have OpenCL ATI or OpenCL Nvidia ?
Should cost much in development time at all :)

Isn't the whole point of OpenCL being open that it's the same on every card?

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Message 157867 - Posted: 16 Nov 2022 | 18:46:37 UTC - in response to Message 157866.

since the Intel Discrete GPU like the A750 support opencl 3, why not have an OpenCL Intel as we already have OpenCL ATI or OpenCL Nvidia ?
Should cost much in development time at all :)

Isn't the whole point of OpenCL being open that it's the same on every card?

my point exactly :) I don't even know why there's a distinction in the app list, but in any case, it's just a matter of assigning one to Intel GPU

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Message 157875 - Posted: 17 Nov 2022 | 4:06:26 UTC - in response to Message 157867.

my point exactly :) I don't even know why there's a distinction in the app list, but in any case, it's just a matter of assigning one to Intel GPU

There are probably differences. If you've ever had a friend who has an iphone and you don't, bluetooth transfer just doesn't happen, Apple reinvented it! [rolls eyes]

If Apple made cars, they'd look like this:



Oh but think of the form! Isn't it beautiful and shiny!

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Message 157878 - Posted: 17 Nov 2022 | 8:53:50 UTC - in response to Message 157851.
Last modified: 17 Nov 2022 | 8:57:27 UTC

DP is Dual Precision and most projects do not need it, it relates to gpu's only and has to do with how the task progresses thru it's calculations AMD gpu's used to have great DP while Nvidia has never had good relationships between SP and DP. If you scroll down thru this chart you can see the SP to DP ratios of the different cards, you have to get down to the Geforce 4?? series before you start seeing the DP numbers.

DP (or FP64) is also important on CPUs, and currently it is more available in CPUs via AVX.

My memory is a bit rusty but I recall both ATI and nvidia slashing FP64 performance from consumer (gaming) GPUs around the same time since it wasn't needed in that use case, and it was a silicon saving they could put into things gamers actually used.

I recall having a 280X as the last higher ratio consumer tier GPU (DP is 1/4 rate of SP), taking around 7 years before RDNA2 passed it but at 1/16 rate. There was the one-off Radeon 7 which was much higher FP64 performance, but it was a rebranded professional tier GPU so was an exception.

Current and previous gen nvidia look to be 1/64 rate so essentially nothing. If only the very low precision modes could be useful for prime related interests, since that's where they're going. Edit: looking again at current 40 series, through sheer brute force even at 1/64 rate their FP64 perf isn't as low as I thought and competitive with RDNA2 GPUs.

High FP64 GPUs largely remain the domain of datacentre tier offerings and not consumer tier.

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Message 157880 - Posted: 17 Nov 2022 | 10:01:31 UTC - in response to Message 157878.
Last modified: 17 Nov 2022 | 10:02:21 UTC

DP (or FP64) is also important on CPUs, and currently it is more available in CPUs via AVX.

My memory is a bit rusty but I recall both ATI and nvidia slashing FP64 performance from consumer (gaming) GPUs around the same time since it wasn't needed in that use case, and it was a silicon saving they could put into things gamers actually used.

I recall having a 280X as the last higher ratio consumer tier GPU (DP is 1/4 rate of SP), taking around 7 years before RDNA2 passed it but at 1/16 rate. There was the one-off Radeon 7 which was much higher FP64 performance, but it was a rebranded professional tier GPU so was an exception.

Current and previous gen nvidia look to be 1/64 rate so essentially nothing. If only the very low precision modes could be useful for prime related interests, since that's where they're going. Edit: looking again at current 40 series, through sheer brute force even at 1/64 rate their FP64 perf isn't as low as I thought and competitive with RDNA2 GPUs.

High FP64 GPUs largely remain the domain of datacentre tier offerings and not consumer tier.

I don't accept this low ratio ripoff. I only buy old gaming cards or newer pro cards, 2nd hand on Ebay. Modern gaming cards are not for Boinc. And yes, the 280X is currently my favourite, or some old Firepros.

Older everything is better. I just looked at buying an electric car, and the saving on fuel was EQUAL to the extra cost of the car, so no point.

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Message 157889 - Posted: 17 Nov 2022 | 15:25:53 UTC

The ARC GPUs do support DP, but in software emulation mode only. That means any DP transactions will be slower than on GPUs that have HW support. More info here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comments/y95vk0/inaccurate_info_on_various_websites_about_fp64/
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Message 157892 - Posted: 17 Nov 2022 | 20:51:08 UTC

nonetheless it's sad we can't use them on PG :/

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Message 157896 - Posted: 18 Nov 2022 | 0:10:07 UTC - in response to Message 157892.

nonetheless it's sad we can't use them on PG :/


? We can and do use them. You have to use an app_info.xml file to make it work for now.
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Message 157903 - Posted: 18 Nov 2022 | 6:35:56 UTC

I meant **natively**

the message board search gives no result
google gives no result
my crystal ball is broken
so I guess I'll wait for the native support ;)

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Message 157921 - Posted: 18 Nov 2022 | 18:15:17 UTC - in response to Message 157896.

nonetheless it's sad we can't use them on PG :/


? We can and do use them. You have to use an app_info.xml file to make it work for now.

So you keep saying, but never tell us how!!!!

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Message 157926 - Posted: 18 Nov 2022 | 22:19:25 UTC - in response to Message 157921.

nonetheless it's sad we can't use them on PG :/


? We can and do use them. You have to use an app_info.xml file to make it work for now.

So you keep saying, but never tell us how!!!!



How did you make Genefer run on Intel? And will this work on any GPU project?

You can set the -intel option to the command line: geneferocl_windows.exe -intel -q "112996304^131072+1"
geneferocl 3.3.4 (Windows/OpenCL/32-bit) Copyright 2001-2018, Yves Gallot Copyright 2009, Mark Rodenkirch, David Underbakke Copyright 2010-2012, Shoichiro Yamada, Ken Brazier Copyright 2011-2014, Michael Goetz, Ronald Schneider Copyright 2011-2018, Iain Bethune Genefer is free source code, under the MIT license. Running on platform 'Intel(R) OpenCL', device 'Intel(R) HD Graphics 630', vendor 'Intel(R) Corporation', version 'OpenCL 2.1 NEO ' and driver '23.20.16.4973'. 23 computeUnits @ 1000MHz, memSize=1638MB, cacheSize=512kB, cacheLineSize=64B, localMemSize=64kB, maxWorkGroupSize=256. [...] Testing 112996304^131072+1... Using OCL2 transform

You can configure the file app_info.xml such that a 'CPU' task runs on Intel iGPU.
But it's not efficient because the Intel iGPU doesn't have any VRAM, it has direct access to the system RAM. This slows CPU tasks.

AP27 and WW use Boinc interface. They are able to run on Intel GPUs (OpenCL) but Boinc must support it.
I don't know for PPSsieve, it's a very old and obscure code.


Adjusting app_info is how we did original multithreading single tasks. IIRC. It's not click and select on purpose because it's a bad idea for the all users (except a couple, maybe, but probably all). Hence it not being native.

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Message 157927 - Posted: 18 Nov 2022 | 22:50:04 UTC - in response to Message 157921.

So you keep saying, but never tell us how!!!!

We already did. Multiple times: use app_info.xml. In other words, set this up: https://boinc.berkeley.edu/wiki/Anonymous_platform

A couple things before you do:
    1. As soon as you put that file, it will delete ALL PG jobs currently running, so make sure you empty your queue before you do.
    2. Only do it if you have a discrete ARC GPU, which is currently not natively supported. Eventually it will, but for the time being, it isn't.
    3. Again, in case you missed it: only for ARC GPUS. Do NOT set this up for intel iGPUs. It is NOT worth it. Belive me, we've benchmarked it. Multiple times. It is bad for you. In fact, that's why it isn't supported natively
    4. When running app_info, you will only get jobs from the apps you've set up properly. So if you intend to do CPU work, you have to set those apps as well.

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Message 157929 - Posted: 19 Nov 2022 | 0:36:10 UTC - in response to Message 157927.

We already did. Multiple times: use app_info.xml. In other words, set this up: https://boinc.berkeley.edu/wiki/Anonymous_platform
No, you just said "use app_config" which doesn't give much of a clue.

A couple things before you do:
    1. As soon as you put that file, it will delete ALL PG jobs currently running, so make sure you empty your queue before you do.
    2. Only do it if you have a discrete ARC GPU, which is currently not natively supported. Eventually it will, but for the time being, it isn't.
    3. Again, in case you missed it: only for ARC GPUS. Do NOT set this up for intel iGPUs. It is NOT worth it. Belive me, we've benchmarked it. Multiple times. It is bad for you. In fact, that's why it isn't supported natively
    4. When running app_info, you will only get jobs from the apps you've set up properly. So if you intend to do CPU work, you have to set those apps as well.

No thanks, I've looked at anonymous platform before, that's for geeks. I'll just run something else on the iGPU. I've only got two of them and one of them rarely shows itself, since the stupid motherboard disables it when a discrete one is present, and I can't get into the BIOS as it's knackered.

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Message 157950 - Posted: 19 Nov 2022 | 13:44:46 UTC - in response to Message 157929.

[quote]We already did. Multiple times: use app_info.xml. In other words, set this up: https://boinc.berkeley.edu/wiki/Anonymous_platform
No, you just said "use app_config" which doesn't give much of a clue.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
THAT
Anyway I tried to run the opencl app in benchmark mode, but it just doesn't run at all (as seen in https://www.primegrid.com/forum_thread.php?id=6576)

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Credit: 2,188,565,631
RAC: 242,786
Found 2 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2020 Tour de Primes321 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,109,047)Cullen LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,176,639)ESP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,281,780)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,462,816)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,668,439)PSP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,255,208)SoB LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,058,625)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,026,764)SGS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,188,040)TRP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,822,692)Woodall LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,231,615)321 Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,003,334)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (268,250)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,000,502)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (310,223,017)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,000,133)TRP Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,000,970)AP 26/27 Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (210,781,805)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (208,005,954)WW Double Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000,000 credits (1,100,000,000)PSA Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (200,000,001)
Message 157953 - Posted: 19 Nov 2022 | 17:38:38 UTC

<- Geek.

Peter Hucker
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Joined: 23 Sep 06
Posts: 197
ID: 3541
Credit: 96,211,756
RAC: 630,787
321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (127,924)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (199,800)ESP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (100,513)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (103,984)PPS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (37,821)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (296,574)SoB LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,452,523)SR5 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (89,307)SGS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (121,430)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (123,013)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (240,222)321 Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (30,838)PPS Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,102,067)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (16,965)TRP Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (14,492)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,292,015)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (72,517,762)WW Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,308,000)
Message 157971 - Posted: 20 Nov 2022 | 17:58:28 UTC - in response to Message 157953.

<- Geek.
I love playing with computers, I've got 8 running Boinc, with about 12 GPUs. But.... no Linux, ever. No geeky here. Me normal caveman.

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