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Message boards : Number crunching : Intel or AMD for LLR Tasks?

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Profile David Steel
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Credit: 226,238,277
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Found 3 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de Primes Mountain StageFound 2 primes in the 2021 Tour de Primes321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,649,385)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,022,521)ESP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,295,185)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,759,603)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,978,214)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,472,222)SoB LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,557,803)SR5 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,782,421)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,231,469)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,113,677)Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,710,981)321 Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,007,280)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,033,157)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,461,179)PPS Sieve Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (113,349,399)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,070,882)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,029,749)AP 26/27 Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,135,895)GFN Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (38,387,841)WW Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,064,000)PSA Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,125,414)
Message 137492 - Posted: 8 Feb 2020 | 5:20:14 UTC

Intel or AMD for LLR Tasks?
Broadly speaking has one got an advantage over the other at PrimeGrid?
I'm doing a new build and deciding which way to go.

Simply looking for whatever CPU is fastest at LLR...

Is one better than the other for long tasks like SOB / WOO / CUL, or for short tasks like PPS / SGS?

I've been looking at the i9-9900KS / Ryzen 9-3950X but also the i9-10980XE.

Now my son (teenager) is telling me I have to get a Ryzen Threadripper!

Does Primegrid have a table or chart showing the fastest CPU's for a subproject?
Say if we pick PPS MEGA, can we see a 9900KS did it in 800 sec, a 9900 = 900 sec, a 9700 = 1000 sec etc...

Thanks!

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Discovered 2 mega primesFound 1 prime in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2021 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2021 Tour de Primes321 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,041,579)Cullen LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,080,010)ESP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,663,562)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,546,090)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (17,621,480)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,242,989)SoB LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,090,360)SR5 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,978,353)SGS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,185,033)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,253,997)Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,757,401)321 Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,205,743)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (33,862)PPS Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,066,993)AP 26/27 Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,830,100)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (54,151,235)WW Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (27,704,000)PSA Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (31,290,660)
Message 137495 - Posted: 8 Feb 2020 | 6:09:43 UTC - in response to Message 137492.

Something with AVX-512 and a large L3 cache is what should be fastest.
The i9-10980XE has AVX-512, the i9-9900KS does not.
The 10980XE has 8MB more L3 cache than the 9900KS.
AMD does not have AVX-512 but has 16MB L3 per CCX (4x16MB for the 3950X from memory).

Based on this, without seeing any performance figures, the i9-10980XE should be best for LLR on a per core basis. I'm not sure if the extra cores of a Threadripper would compensate.

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Discovered 8 mega primesFound 5 primes in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 2 mega primes in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 4 primes in the 2021 Tour de PrimesFound 2 mega primes in the 2021 Tour de Primes321 LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,020,701)Cullen LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,174,451)ESP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (23,496,803)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (47,441,864)PPS LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (61,332,778)PSP LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (51,069,305)SoB LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (51,885,310)SR5 LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,183,763)SGS LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,482,069)TRP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,307,419)Woodall LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,371,625)321 Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,380,527)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (744,531)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,007,004)PPS Sieve Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (578,571,690)TRP Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (21,181)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (31,381,766)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (484,895,381)WW Double Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000,000 credits (1,979,064,000)
Message 137496 - Posted: 8 Feb 2020 | 6:12:17 UTC - in response to Message 137492.

Intel or AMD for LLR Tasks?
Broadly speaking has one got an advantage over the other at PrimeGrid?
I'm doing a new build and deciding which way to go.

Simply looking for whatever CPU is fastest at LLR...

Is one better than the other for long tasks like SOB / WOO / CUL, or for short tasks like PPS / SGS?

I've been looking at the i9-9900KS / Ryzen 9-3950X but also the i9-10980XE.

Now my son (teenager) is telling me I have to get a Ryzen Threadripper!

Does Primegrid have a table or chart showing the fastest CPU's for a subproject?
Say if we pick PPS MEGA, can we see a 9900KS did it in 800 sec, a 9900 = 900 sec, a 9700 = 1000 sec etc...

Thanks!

If you can do it, intel 99xx-X are the best.
X chips have dual AVX-512 (double check that they do before buying)
Also the available cache can be considered to be L2 + L3 on X chips
They however probably use a lot of power

Threadrippers aren't very good at LLR

Latest from AMD are equivalent to intel non-AVX 512 chips
However their L3 cache is split. So consider these AMD chips as actually 2 chips. You don't want to do a task muti-threading using all cores.

I think I haven't explained it very well, but maybe it is a start?

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Discovered 1 mega prime321 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (506,806)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (112,212)ESP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (386,683)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (941,464)PPS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,001,172)PSP LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (616,940)SoB LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (533,625)SR5 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (145,606)SGS LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (501,594)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (230,447)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (117,864)321 Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (506,814)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (30,033)PPS Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,808,043)AP 26/27 Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,273,545)GFN Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,696,183)WW Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,240,000)PSA Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (373,034)
Message 137499 - Posted: 8 Feb 2020 | 6:44:55 UTC

Here's the deal: You get more price with more performance.

The best of AMD comes from the 3950X, but threadrippers really aren't that good at LLR. They're priced at about $699. They don't have AVX-512 and are about equal or higher to i9-9900K. They have MUCH more cache than 10980XE, about three times.

The best of Intel HEDT comes from 10980XE, excluding Xeon Platnums which aren't HEDT. They HAVE two AVX-512 units and benefit largely from the LLR V3.8.23. They are higher priced at $999.

So it depends on how much money you have and how much you want to spend on your GPU.
I prefer 3950X though its cache is split among CCX's. It's ultimately just whether you like intel or AMD more ;)
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Proth "SoB": 44243*2^440969+1


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Discovered 16 mega primesEliminated 1 conjecture "k"Found 3 primes in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 3 primes in the 2021 Tour de PrimesFound 3 mega primes in the 2021 Tour de Primes321 LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (25,361,124)Cullen LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,181,254)ESP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (25,320,661)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (27,986,435)PPS LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (112,481,556)PSP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (34,973,901)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (23,085,381)SR5 LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (71,725,397)SGS LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (23,685,847)TRP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,311,003)Woodall LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,786,101)321 Sieve (suspended) Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,559,131)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,297,856)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,711,622)PPS Sieve Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (668,528,117)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,707,274)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,316,578)AP 26/27 Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (311,021,509)GFN Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (546,465,842)WW Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (509,212,000)PSA Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (52,054,411)
Message 137503 - Posted: 8 Feb 2020 | 7:27:29 UTC

I am seeing a bunch of conflicting and wrong info here.

Anything Zen/Zen+ crippled AVX2, so avoid that. And comparisons to those obsolete chips are not relevant.

Zen2 has full AVX2/FMA3. Same as normal Intel chips.

WRT Intel chips with AVX-512, those chips are faster per LLR task...sorta. It really depends on the number of cores, cache size, the number of threads assigned per task, etc. Also the choice of LLR sub-project can make a larger difference, coupled with the choice of number of threads.

Finally the amount of cores with CPUs with AVX-512 are relatively small compared to the threadripprer 3xxx. For example a 32 core threadripper with AVX2 may outperform a 16 core intel X with AVX-512.


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Discovered 8 mega primesFound 5 primes in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 2 mega primes in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 4 primes in the 2021 Tour de PrimesFound 2 mega primes in the 2021 Tour de Primes321 LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,020,701)Cullen LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,174,451)ESP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (23,496,803)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (47,441,864)PPS LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (61,332,778)PSP LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (51,069,305)SoB LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (51,885,310)SR5 LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,183,763)SGS LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,482,069)TRP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,307,419)Woodall LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,371,625)321 Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,380,527)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (744,531)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,007,004)PPS Sieve Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (578,571,690)TRP Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (21,181)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (31,381,766)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (484,895,381)WW Double Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000,000 credits (1,979,064,000)
Message 137504 - Posted: 8 Feb 2020 | 8:04:23 UTC

I have some times for my 16 core 9960X which uses AVX512:
PPS-Mega (running 3 core tasks) = 1130 - 1293 sec
PPSE (running single core tasks) = 398 - 441 sec
SGS (running single core tasks) = 364 - 369 sec
There are some results for SGS which are approx double this which I have ignored. My internet connection drops out many times each day for about 5 minutes at a time. It's driving me nuts.

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Discovered 1 mega prime321 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (506,806)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (112,212)ESP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (386,683)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (941,464)PPS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,001,172)PSP LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (616,940)SoB LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (533,625)SR5 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (145,606)SGS LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (501,594)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (230,447)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (117,864)321 Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (506,814)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (30,033)PPS Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,808,043)AP 26/27 Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,273,545)GFN Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,696,183)WW Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,240,000)PSA Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (373,034)
Message 137507 - Posted: 8 Feb 2020 | 8:31:22 UTC - in response to Message 137504.

I have the same problem here, and its been continuing for about since I had this router...
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waiting for a TdP prime...
Proth "SoB": 44243*2^440969+1


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Discovered 6 mega primesEliminated 1 conjecture "k"Found 3 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 5 primes in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 6 primes in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 5 primes in the 2021 Tour de Primes321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,774,878)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,903,451)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,207,880)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,714,227)PPS LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (108,730,564)PSP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (16,676,406)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,019,367)SR5 LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (25,605,231)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,360,621)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (34,130)TRP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (21,424,369)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,171,820)321 Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,236,219)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,383,853)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,626,419)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (76,969,144)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,293,882)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,012,757)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (27,801,459)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (77,695,028)WW Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (34,040,000)PSA Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,939,755)
Message 137516 - Posted: 8 Feb 2020 | 10:00:46 UTC

Zombie's reply is best so far.


Let's look at it from an execution potential perspective. Assume there are no cache or ram limits, how good is the architecture if you compare say 1 core at the same clock?

Take Intel consumer mainstream desktop CPUs from Skylake onwards as the reference point. Zen and Zen+ are about half the performance and basically shouldn't be a consideration unless really cheap and you don't care about density. Zen 2 (used in desktop Ryzen 3500 or higher) catches up and even slightly exceeds Intel, although I never worked out exactly what that number is. Consider it as "slightly more" for now. Two unit AVX-512, which includes Skylake-X and Cascade-X HEDT CPUs, and some Xeons, have about double the potential of the mainstream Intel CPUs.

So for rough indication of peak CPU potential, I'd literally take the cores and multiply by all core loaded clock (note AVX boost is typically lower than for other workloads on most CPUs), and for the AVX-512 CPUs, multiply by 2. This is a good indication of throughput for smaller tasks like PPS or below.


I said that was assuming no limits, so what are the limits? We have the FFT size used by LLR. The FFT data size is the FFT size multiplied by 8. e.g. 256k FFT would be 2MB of data. Through observation the FFT data size compared to CPU cache is a good indication of performance, even though there is other data used which is not considered. At a simple level, take the number of tasks you want to run at the same time, multiply by the data size, and you have your effective working requirement. If that number is less than the L3 of the CPU, you wont be ram bandwidth impacted, and can expect high performance. If the number is greater than the L3 cache, then you may be limited by ram bandwidth.

There are a number of additional considerations to the above. For Skylake-X, it looks appropriate to include the L2 cache when doing the consideration, but it isn't something I looked at in too much detail. This may be a side effect of those CPUs having a relatively large L2 compared to their L3.

Ryzen CPUs have L3 cache partitioned per CCX, which is 3 or 4 cores depending on the CPU model. Cores within the same CCX can share data easily. If it is not on the local CCX, in effect it has to go back to ram to get data, and you're hit with potential bandwidth limitations there. So for best throughput, it seems best to run Ryzen CPUs as if they were clusters or 3 or 4 cores depending on the model, at least for medium sized tasks. It gets complicated when you get to bigger tasks that no longer fit inside a CCX. There still seems to be some benefit from the large caches, but not as much as if they were unified.

And quickly on multi-threading, the guide I use in the first instance is that best throughput performance seems to be when the caches are nearly filled. So you would select the number of tasks running that would satisfy that. For example, PPSE you would typically run 1 task per core. MEGA is a big bigger and 2 threads per task starts to become useful. Basically, exceeding cache puts you into potential ram limiting, and running more threads than ideal loses you throughput through the lower efficiency scaling as you increase the number of threads per task.


So overall, to answer the original question... It depends on exact pricing to some extent but if Cascade Lake-X is in budget, I'd consider that, or the equivalent Skylake-X if pricing is similar (not higher as it was). These get you AVX-512 and 4 ram channels compared to 2 of the 3950X. The downside is mainly availability, there don't seem to be many of them in stock in general. These can get very power hungry but in part I think it is mobo manufacturers typically defaulting to power unlimited/maximum turbo. Use a more sensible power limit to help tame their AVX-512 consumption. I run my 7920X with turbo off for example.

2nd choice would be the 3950X. It has much more potential over the 9900ks in most things. The Threadripper 3000 series is also interesting and you can consider it as a scaled up 3950X.

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321 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (51,596)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (110,160)ESP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (107,259)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (103,914)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (125,540)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (193,878)SGS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (26,982)TRP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (48,329)PPS Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (418,004)AP 26/27 Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (101,075)GFN Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (100,858)
Message 137585 - Posted: 9 Feb 2020 | 6:11:23 UTC - in response to Message 137496.

Intel or AMD for LLR Tasks?
Broadly speaking has one got an advantage over the other at PrimeGrid?
I'm doing a new build and deciding which way to go.

Simply looking for whatever CPU is fastest at LLR...

Is one better than the other for long tasks like SOB / WOO / CUL, or for short tasks like PPS / SGS?

I've been looking at the i9-9900KS / Ryzen 9-3950X but also the i9-10980XE.

Now my son (teenager) is telling me I have to get a Ryzen Threadripper!

Does Primegrid have a table or chart showing the fastest CPU's for a subproject?
Say if we pick PPS MEGA, can we see a 9900KS did it in 800 sec, a 9900 = 900 sec, a 9700 = 1000 sec etc...

Thanks!

If you can do it, intel 99xx-X are the best.
X chips have dual AVX-512 (double check that they do before buying)
Also the available cache can be considered to be L2 + L3 on X chips
They however probably use a lot of power

Threadrippers aren't very good at LLR

Latest from AMD are equivalent to intel non-AVX 512 chips
However their L3 cache is split. So consider these AMD chips as actually 2 chips. You don't want to do a task muti-threading using all cores.

I think I haven't explained it very well, but maybe it is a start?


With Threadripper/AMD you should always single thread then?

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Discovered 6 mega primesEliminated 1 conjecture "k"Found 3 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 5 primes in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 6 primes in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 5 primes in the 2021 Tour de Primes321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,774,878)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,903,451)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,207,880)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,714,227)PPS LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (108,730,564)PSP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (16,676,406)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,019,367)SR5 LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (25,605,231)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,360,621)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (34,130)TRP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (21,424,369)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,171,820)321 Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,236,219)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,383,853)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,626,419)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (76,969,144)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,293,882)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,012,757)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (27,801,459)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (77,695,028)WW Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (34,040,000)PSA Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,939,755)
Message 137594 - Posted: 9 Feb 2020 | 9:39:10 UTC - in response to Message 137585.

With Threadripper/AMD you should always single thread then?


I tried to cover it in my earlier wall of text. In short, peak performance can be achieved if tasks are no bigger than will fit in a CCX. That doesn't mean you can't go bigger, just that scaling is less than ideal.

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Credit: 533,721,506
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Discovered 1 mega prime321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,038,739)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,074,615)ESP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,243,517)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,142,353)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,292,925)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,232,103)SoB LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,934,612)SR5 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,053,250)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,231,028)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,405,015)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,014,811)321 Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (23,770,672)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (944,431)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,813,253)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (342,048,709)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,446,797)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (33,140,471)GFN Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (49,651,200)WW Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,792,000)PSA Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,457,430)
Message 137599 - Posted: 9 Feb 2020 | 12:42:22 UTC - in response to Message 137585.

Intel or AMD for LLR Tasks?
Broadly speaking has one got an advantage over the other at PrimeGrid?
I'm doing a new build and deciding which way to go.

Simply looking for whatever CPU is fastest at LLR...

Is one better than the other for long tasks like SOB / WOO / CUL, or for short tasks like PPS / SGS?

I've been looking at the i9-9900KS / Ryzen 9-3950X but also the i9-10980XE.

Now my son (teenager) is telling me I have to get a Ryzen Threadripper!

Does Primegrid have a table or chart showing the fastest CPU's for a subproject?
Say if we pick PPS MEGA, can we see a 9900KS did it in 800 sec, a 9900 = 900 sec, a 9700 = 1000 sec etc...

Thanks!

If you can do it, intel 99xx-X are the best.
X chips have dual AVX-512 (double check that they do before buying)
Also the available cache can be considered to be L2 + L3 on X chips
They however probably use a lot of power

Threadrippers aren't very good at LLR

Latest from AMD are equivalent to intel non-AVX 512 chips
However their L3 cache is split. So consider these AMD chips as actually 2 chips. You don't want to do a task muti-threading using all cores.

I think I haven't explained it very well, but maybe it is a start?


With Threadripper/AMD you should always single thread then?


I have a 1st gen ThreadRipper, 1920X with 12/24cores, and in some cases using 11 cores was faster than 23 cores but not for every application here. My older Intel I7-3930K would run the same workunits in about the same amount of time using only 5 or 6 cores, I don't remember exactly anymore. The key for me is what else I do with the pc, if it's only ever going to be here at PrimeGrid imho Intel is faster overall on a per core basis, but if you are going to run other Projects as well then you can get more cores cheaper thru an AMD cpu and do more units in quantity than a similar priced Intel cpu.

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Discovered 8 mega primesFound 5 primes in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 2 mega primes in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 4 primes in the 2021 Tour de PrimesFound 2 mega primes in the 2021 Tour de Primes321 LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,020,701)Cullen LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,174,451)ESP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (23,496,803)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (47,441,864)PPS LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (61,332,778)PSP LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (51,069,305)SoB LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (51,885,310)SR5 LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,183,763)SGS LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,482,069)TRP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,307,419)Woodall LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,371,625)321 Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,380,527)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (744,531)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,007,004)PPS Sieve Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (578,571,690)TRP Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (21,181)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (31,381,766)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (484,895,381)WW Double Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000,000 credits (1,979,064,000)
Message 137601 - Posted: 9 Feb 2020 | 13:29:42 UTC - in response to Message 137585.



With Threadripper/AMD you should always single thread then?

No you will not compete with the best from Intel.
AMD throws many cores at computing.
You need to use many cores with threadrippers to be equal with the best from Intel

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ID: 1097922
Credit: 22,022,067
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Discovered 1 mega prime321 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (506,806)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (112,212)ESP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (386,683)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (941,464)PPS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,001,172)PSP LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (616,940)SoB LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (533,625)SR5 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (145,606)SGS LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (501,594)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (230,447)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (117,864)321 Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (506,814)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (30,033)PPS Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,808,043)AP 26/27 Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,273,545)GFN Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,696,183)WW Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,240,000)PSA Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (373,034)
Message 137640 - Posted: 10 Feb 2020 | 3:45:11 UTC
Last modified: 10 Feb 2020 | 3:46:41 UTC

I have a 1st gen ThreadRipper, 1920X with 12/24cores, and in some cases using 11 cores was faster than 23 cores but not for every application here. My older Intel I7-3930K would run the same workunits in about the same amount of time using only 5 or 6 cores, I don't remember exactly anymore. The key for me is what else I do with the pc, if it's only ever going to be here at PrimeGrid imho Intel is faster overall on a per core basis, but if you are going to run other Projects as well then you can get more cores cheaper thru an AMD cpu and do more units in quantity than a similar priced Intel cpu.


As mackerel and Zombie said, first gen threadripper (Zen) is *trash*(no offense) and even r7 3800x gives better performance.

No you will not compete with the best from Intel.
AMD throws many cores at computing.
You need to use many cores with threadrippers to be equal with the best from Intel


If you throw all the cores on a 3950X to a fight with a 10920X or a 3990X with a 10980XE of course the one with more cores would win(chinese benchmarks). Pricing is a factor you should consider when buying.
____________
SHSIDElectronicsGroup@outlook.com

waiting for a TdP prime...
Proth "SoB": 44243*2^440969+1


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Joined: 2 Oct 08
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Credit: 509,616,476
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Discovered 6 mega primesEliminated 1 conjecture "k"Found 3 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 5 primes in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 6 primes in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 5 primes in the 2021 Tour de Primes321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,774,878)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,903,451)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,207,880)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,714,227)PPS LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (108,730,564)PSP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (16,676,406)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,019,367)SR5 LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (25,605,231)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,360,621)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (34,130)TRP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (21,424,369)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,171,820)321 Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,236,219)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,383,853)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,626,419)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (76,969,144)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,293,882)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,012,757)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (27,801,459)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (77,695,028)WW Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (34,040,000)PSA Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,939,755)
Message 137651 - Posted: 10 Feb 2020 | 10:25:03 UTC - in response to Message 137640.

If you throw all the cores on a 3950X to a fight with a 10920X or a 3990X with a 10980XE of course the one with more cores would win(chinese benchmarks).

It's not that simple. In my earlier wall of text I tried and probably failed to convey the considerations involved with an optimal configuration of a given CPU/platform. Maybe some pictures would help...

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Posts: 110
ID: 56067
Credit: 57,803,265
RAC: 11,515
321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (104,482)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (102,670)ESP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (104,502)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (114,572)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (102,015)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (118,657)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (32,376,771)SR5 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (100,043)SGS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (105,539)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (106,264)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (107,466)321 Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (140,910)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,005,637)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (104,861)PPS Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,033,489)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (15,365,882)TRP Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (119,061)AP 26/27 Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (105,118)GFN Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (250,199)WW Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (104,000)PSA Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (131,126)
Message 137676 - Posted: 10 Feb 2020 | 18:41:12 UTC - in response to Message 137516.

We have the FFT size used by LLR. The FFT data size is the FFT size multiplied by 8. e.g. 256k FFT would be 2MB of data. Through observation the FFT data size compared to CPU cache is a good indication of performance, even though there is other data used which is not considered. At a simple level, take the number of tasks you want to run at the same time, multiply by the data size, and you have your effective working requirement. If that number is less than the L3 of the CPU, you wont be ram bandwidth impacted, and can expect high performance. If the number is greater than the L3 cache, then you may be limited by ram bandwidth.


With regards to FFT data size and CPU cache, does it matter if cache almost fits FFT data, or is a more of a simple, yes it fits or no it doesn't determination?

For example, if FFT data size is 10 and cache is 8, is that better than if cache is 2, or is it equivalent since in both cases FFT data size is bigger than cache?

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Discovered 6 mega primesEliminated 1 conjecture "k"Found 3 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 5 primes in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 6 primes in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 5 primes in the 2021 Tour de Primes321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,774,878)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,903,451)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,207,880)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,714,227)PPS LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (108,730,564)PSP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (16,676,406)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,019,367)SR5 LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (25,605,231)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,360,621)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (34,130)TRP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (21,424,369)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,171,820)321 Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,236,219)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,383,853)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,626,419)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (76,969,144)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,293,882)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,012,757)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (27,801,459)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (77,695,028)WW Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (34,040,000)PSA Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,939,755)
Message 137679 - Posted: 10 Feb 2020 | 19:26:57 UTC - in response to Message 137676.

With regards to FFT data size and CPU cache, does it matter if cache almost fits FFT data, or is a more of a simple, yes it fits or no it doesn't determination?

For example, if FFT data size is 10 and cache is 8, is that better than if cache is 2, or is it equivalent since in both cases FFT data size is bigger than cache?

I'm trying and failing to find a chart I know I made which show this. It is not all-or-nothing but you start to get some drop off starting slightly below, and it drops and converges to ram limited performance after you go past it. It isn't a big transition region though.

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Found 3 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de Primes Mountain StageFound 2 primes in the 2021 Tour de Primes321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,649,385)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,022,521)ESP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,295,185)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,759,603)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,978,214)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,472,222)SoB LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,557,803)SR5 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,782,421)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,231,469)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,113,677)Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,710,981)321 Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,007,280)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,033,157)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,461,179)PPS Sieve Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (113,349,399)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,070,882)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,029,749)AP 26/27 Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,135,895)GFN Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (38,387,841)WW Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,064,000)PSA Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,125,414)
Message 137853 - Posted: 14 Feb 2020 | 3:01:27 UTC - in response to Message 137495.

Well I would like to get the 10980XE but none of the retailers here in Australia have it in stock.
It was only released in Q4 2019 so is it very popular or rare?
Its a bit pricey - $1800 AUD ($1200 US)

I have some times for my 16 core 9960X which uses AVX512:
PPS-Mega (running 3 core tasks) = 1130 - 1293 sec
PPSE (running single core tasks) = 398 - 441 sec
SGS (running single core tasks) = 364 - 369 sec


Nick, why don't you run multi core on your 9980XE and 9960X for PPSE, it should bring the run times way down?

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ID: 375694
Credit: 76,575,487
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321 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (538,035)Cullen LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,325,958)ESP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,311,687)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (944,555)PPS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,659,952)PSP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,760,672)SoB LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,462,045)SR5 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (839,791)SGS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (266,742)TRP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,546,582)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (393,999)321 Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (458,634)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (832,292)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (24,510,541)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (182,297)TRP Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (289,903)AP 26/27 Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,634,657)GFN Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (23,213,146)WW Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,404,000)
Message 137931 - Posted: 15 Feb 2020 | 14:37:01 UTC

Next Question, how to cool? All Threads of a Threadripper on fire, is a big Problem by nearly 300W of power consumption. The 4,5GHz Boost is out of range, so the CPU will run only at Base Frequency or so. But the same you will find at Intel CPUs on this level of cores, and it maybe fall back at Base Frequency 3 GHz?

At the end, the board have to handle it, too.

You first have to be sure, that you can cool the CPU for a long time with maximum of Threads on fire on a strong frequency, than you should buy it.

I use a Ryzen 5 3600 and the CPU Temp is 53°C, but the water only have ~30°C or less. The Problem is, to get out the heat from the CPU.

Message boards : Number crunching : Intel or AMD for LLR Tasks?

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