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Honary challenge in 2019 - what do people think?
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KEP Send message
Joined: 10 Aug 05 Posts: 303 ID: 110 Credit: 13,001,669 RAC: 23,247
          
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Dear crunchers
I know that what I suggest is a very long challenge. I suggest it to be either on the ESP, PSP or SR5.
If I´m correct our honary cruncher - Lennart - was born 65 years ago on august 3rd 2019. Most projects on Primegrid wouldn´t really have been anything of what they are today and might not have been on Primegrid at all if it weren´t for Lennart. So to honour Lennart and celebrate his birthday and the great work he has done for Primegrid and the influence he has had on Primegrid, I suggest a 65 days challenge in Lennarts honour :)
I know it is a long challenge, but it is still not comparing to the time and effort Lennart did to doublecheck and prepare Primegrids great projects. Why 65 days you may wonder, well one day for each year since Lennarts birth :)
My personal suggestion will be to run ESP, because doing a 65 days challenge on SR5 might mean that we have to start preparing more SR5 work in the near future - while ESP has a lot of work remaining and all the work is fully sieved. ESP was also started by Lennart, so we honour Lennart by giving one of his pet projects a really big push - a push where 1 or 2 primes might be found :)
As mentioned a 65 days challenge is long time, but a long challenge in order to honour one of our most productive projectsupporters is no doubt in its place and well it wont be 65 years since Lennart was born again so we will propably not have such a long challenge in the near future :)
So let me hear what people think, any pros any cons in regards to such a long honary challenge?
My suggestion is to run from Saturday August 3rd 2019 to Monday 7th October 2019.
Final note, I really don´t know wether Lennart is dead or alive, if he is healthy or sick - I simply just did some research to see if I could find out more about Lennart and all I have is a likely (unconfirmed) birthday and age, so no need to ask me or any admins if more is known about Lennart :)
Looking forward to be hearing your feelings and suggestions.
Have a nice warm day and stay happy and healthy :)
KEP | |
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RafaelVolunteer tester
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Joined: 22 Oct 14 Posts: 918 ID: 370496 Credit: 611,447,623 RAC: 718,945
                         
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If I´m correct our honary cruncher - Lennart - was born 65 years ago on august 3rd 2019.
You are most definitely wrong on that one :P
Anyways, I don't really like it. Long challenges get kinda boring after a while, you just end upp not caring and moving on, at least for me. It already happens with 2 weeks challenges, let alone with 2 month ones. Additionally, it's only two days away, we'd need to have this planned for much longer if we're to do this. | |
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KEP Send message
Joined: 10 Aug 05 Posts: 303 ID: 110 Credit: 13,001,669 RAC: 23,247
          
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If I´m correct our honary cruncher - Lennart - was born 65 years ago on august 3rd 2019.
You are most definitely wrong on that one :P
Anyways, I don't really like it. Long challenges get kinda boring after a while, you just end upp not caring and moving on, at least for me. It already happens with 2 weeks challenges, let alone with 2 month ones. Additionally, it's only two days away, we'd need to have this planned for much longer if we're to do this.
Maybe you should read that part again, it is actually 1 year and 2 days from now ;) ... much longer, yes that´s why I ask already ;) ... But thanks for your oppinion :) | |
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Maybe you should read that part again, it is actually 1 year and 2 days from now ;) ... much longer, yes that´s why I ask already ;) ... But thanks for your oppinion :)
BACK TO THE FUTURE!!!
65 days is a long time to commit if you have one computer. I think a lot of participants like to limit their other computer activities like web browsing, video viewing, or gaming for a short challenge just to maximize resources but 65 days is a big ask for many. That long of a challenge is going to end up feeling like no big deal after a couple of weeks and a single computer owner is just going to stop work when they need those system resources to do other things.
If I had multiple computers at my disposal I might feel differently but my interest level for a long challenge still wouldn't be as much as for the shorter ones. It would probably be a case of set it and forget it until the end of the challenge was near. | |
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JimB Honorary cruncher Send message
Joined: 4 Aug 11 Posts: 920 ID: 107307 Credit: 990,114,734 RAC: 55,798
                     
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This is all speaking unofficially: Playing with numbers, if KEP is correct Lennart would be 23741 days old on 3 Aug 2019. A challenge that lasted one minute for every day Lennart lived would be 16.4868 days or 16 days 11 hours 41 minutes. This year's SoB challenge was 15 days, so that's a number we could all live with.
Edit: I found an old chat log where it seems I knew that Lennart was born in August of 1954, so that agrees with KEP. | |
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RafaelVolunteer tester
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Joined: 22 Oct 14 Posts: 918 ID: 370496 Credit: 611,447,623 RAC: 718,945
                         
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This is all speaking unofficially: Playing with numbers, if KEP is correct Lennart would be 23741 days old on 3 Aug 2019. A challenge that lasted one minute for every day Lennart lived would be 16.4868 days or 16 days 11 hours 41 minutes. This year's SoB challenge was 15 days, so that's a number we could all live with.
According to Lennart's page, his only prime is an SGS one, which is 100,354 digits long. If we hold 1s of an SGS challenge for each digit of his only prime, we'd have a 27h 52min 34s challenge, very much in line with past SGS bursts.
;)
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JimB Honorary cruncher Send message
Joined: 4 Aug 11 Posts: 920 ID: 107307 Credit: 990,114,734 RAC: 55,798
                     
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Lennart shows 1306 primes at http://primes.utm.edu/bios/page.php?id=1152 as he was active in more than just PrimeGrid. | |
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Dave  Send message
Joined: 13 Feb 12 Posts: 3257 ID: 130544 Credit: 2,459,260,966 RAC: 4,370,694
                           
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All good ideas with me, I like Jim's idea ;). I also don't mind committing to an unusually long challenge - it is itself a challenge to remain so focussed for so long! Humans are capable of so much & there is a lot of inspiration in playing a long-game of sorts. Fine whichever project we go for - by that time all mine should be turq anyway, so personally I'd do 2.5~3M. Also a precise stop-time on the second is exactly the same as any other project so it doesn't matter if it is non-integer days. | |
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mackerel Volunteer tester
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Joined: 2 Oct 08 Posts: 2652 ID: 29980 Credit: 570,442,335 RAC: 5,621
                              
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Randomly thinking, if there were to be a very long challenge I think the mentality will be different than the ones we have now. It will be no sprint, more like a marathon, and you throw in a bit of production here and there. | |
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Michael Goetz Volunteer moderator Project administrator
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Joined: 21 Jan 10 Posts: 14044 ID: 53948 Credit: 482,306,103 RAC: 564,923
                               
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According to Lennart's page, his only prime is an SGS one, which is 100,354 digits long. If we hold 1s of an SGS challenge for each digit of his only prime, we'd have a 27h 52min 34s challenge, very much in line with past SGS bursts.
;)
Wrong Lennart. :)
Try this one: http://www.primegrid.com/primes/?section=primelist&userid=7989
By a huge margin, Lennart's found more primes than anyone else at PrimeGrid. Close to 14 thousand primes.
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My lucky number is 75898524288+1 | |
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Try this one: http://www.primegrid.com/primes/?section=primelist&userid=7989
The smallest prime attributed to Lennart there, is about 10^6024. The smallest physical meaningful interval of time might be the Planck time. If we do a challenge for 10^6024 Planck time units, that will be 10^5981 seconds, or 10^5973 years, or 10^5963 times the current age of the universe. People will need time to prepare for such a challenge, so I suggest we start on Saturday, 3 August 2954, at noon. /JeppeSN | |
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robish Volunteer moderator Volunteer tester
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Joined: 7 Jan 12 Posts: 2223 ID: 126266 Credit: 7,973,006,583 RAC: 5,441,534
                               
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According to Lennart's page, his only prime is an SGS one, which is 100,354 digits long. If we hold 1s of an SGS challenge for each digit of his only prime, we'd have a 27h 52min 34s challenge, very much in line with past SGS bursts.
;)
Wrong Lennart. :)
Try this one: http://www.primegrid.com/primes/?section=primelist&userid=7989
By a huge margin, Lennart's found more primes than anyone else at PrimeGrid. Close to 14 thousand primes.
Wow! That's almost three a day, every day! Or am I wrong?
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My lucky number 10590941048576+1 | |
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Dave  Send message
Joined: 13 Feb 12 Posts: 3257 ID: 130544 Credit: 2,459,260,966 RAC: 4,370,694
                           
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Try this one: http://www.primegrid.com/primes/?section=primelist&userid=7989
The smallest prime attributed to Lennart there, is about 10^6024. The smallest physical meaningful interval of time might be the Planck time. If we do a challenge for 10^6024 Planck time units, that will be 10^5981 seconds, or 10^5973 years, or 10^5963 times the current age of the universe. People will need time to prepare for such a challenge, so I suggest we start on Saturday, 3 August 2954, at noon. /JeppeSN
Should be at hextuple-emerald by then. On everything. Using a 4004. | |
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Try this one: http://www.primegrid.com/primes/?section=primelist&userid=7989
The smallest prime attributed to Lennart there, is about 10^6024. The smallest physical meaningful interval of time might be the Planck time. If we do a challenge for 10^6024 Planck time units, that will be 10^5981 seconds, or 10^5973 years, or 10^5963 times the current age of the universe. People will need time to prepare for such a challenge, so I suggest we start on Saturday, 3 August 2954, at noon. /JeppeSN
Should be at hextuple-emerald by then. On everything. Using a 4004.
Because I'm that kind of guy, doing some simple computational power comparisons, hex-emerald on 20 subprojects (10^23 overall credits) on a 4004 (.02 credits/day) would take roughly 1.16*10^23 years, which is pretty quick, considering. The total power consumption is equal to about half a day's energy output of the sun; very efficient.
On the other hand, say you're immortal and enjoy tedium, you could get there by hand (if you kept up a constant .1 IPS) in about 10^29 years. Hop to it!
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Eating more cheese on Thursdays. | |
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Michael Goetz Volunteer moderator Project administrator
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Joined: 21 Jan 10 Posts: 14044 ID: 53948 Credit: 482,306,103 RAC: 564,923
                               
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Because I'm that kind of guy, doing some simple computational power comparisons, hex-emerald on 20 subprojects (10^23 overall credits) on a 4004 (.02 credits/day) would take roughly 1.16*10^23 years, which is pretty quick, considering. The total power consumption is equal to about half a day's energy output of the sun; very efficient.
Even I have never worked with a 4004. This is going pretty far back. 8080, yes. 8008, I'm not sure. 4004, no.
In fact, this is going back a bit too far. You can't use a 4004 for this application. It's not that LLR (or anything else we use) won't run on it. It's not that it doesn't have double precision floating point instructions. It's not that it doesn't have floating point instructions, period. It probably doesn't have divide or multiply instructions.
You could in theory work around all of those problems in software.
The problem is it can only address 640 bytes of random access memory (actually, 1280 4-bit words). Not 640K. Just 640.
Realistically, an 80386, preferably with an 80387 coprocessor, would be the minimum CPU you could use for this. You could probably make it work on an 80286, but it would be more difficult with the segmented memory architecture. At least on the Intel side.
If you're willing to use something like a micro-VAX or a PDP-11, you could go back a bit further on the calendar.
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My lucky number is 75898524288+1 | |
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mikey Send message
Joined: 17 Mar 09 Posts: 1907 ID: 37043 Credit: 831,688,438 RAC: 818,552
                     
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Anyways, I don't really like it. Long challenges get kinda boring after a while, you just end upp not caring and moving on, at least for me. It already happens with 2 weeks challenges, let alone with 2 month ones. Additionally, it's only two days away, we'd need to have this planned for much longer if we're to do this.
I agree that long challenges can be challenging for people with a single, or even just a couple of computers, but you could also 'honor' him by crunching a single unit and then return to your other usual crunching. It's also challenging to those with more than a couple of computers too for similar reasons...it's time away from our regular crunching and goals.
I therefore think JimB's suggestion of a 15 day challenge would be a better idea than a full 65 day challenge. I'm also guessing a longer challenge like that could take away from PG's normal return of wu's from the non challenge projects. | |
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KEP Send message
Joined: 10 Aug 05 Posts: 303 ID: 110 Credit: 13,001,669 RAC: 23,247
          
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This is all speaking unofficially: Playing with numbers, if KEP is correct Lennart would be 23741 days old on 3 Aug 2019. A challenge that lasted one minute for every day Lennart lived would be 16.4868 days or 16 days 11 hours 41 minutes. This year's SoB challenge was 15 days, so that's a number we could all live with.
Edit: I found an old chat log where it seems I knew that Lennart was born in August of 1954, so that agrees with KEP.
Maybe both yours and mine suggestion could work. I know PG hasn´t done this before, but this is an extraordinary challenge to honor an exrtaordinary guy who really meant the world for PG. I´m thinking a bit like an amateur cykeling race, where you usually has 3 different routes to choose from. Here we have 2 routes and no one has to decide untill 16.4868 days after start - wether they want to run the short challenge or to run the complete challenge.
I know it might require some extra scoreboards, but the idea is, if a user only want to participate in the 16.4868 days of honary challenge, then as long as the user doesn´t download or return any challenge work after the 16.4868 days - then the user is listed on the short honary run list - while if the user continues to participate after 16.4868 days, then the user is removed from the "short honary list" and placed on the "long honary list". By splitting the scoreboards this way, an unusual sideeffect will be that users that normally doesn´t stand a chance for a high rankinkg, now at least on the short list, can make it pretty high.
I was just thinking out of the box and I do (no matter what we end up agreeing upon) still think an honary challenge starting August 3rd 2019, and as far as I´m concerned running for 65 days, in Lennarts honor is in its place - that´s the least we could do for a guy that has opened the doors to such many great projects :)
Take care
KEP | |
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If you're willing to use something like a micro-VAX or a PDP-11, you could go back a bit further on the calendar.
Any of those still running today?
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@AggieThePew
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Michael Goetz Volunteer moderator Project administrator
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Joined: 21 Jan 10 Posts: 14044 ID: 53948 Credit: 482,306,103 RAC: 564,923
                               
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If you're willing to use something like a micro-VAX or a PDP-11, you could go back a bit further on the calendar.
Any of those still running today?
Probably. I know there were still VAX (but not micro-VAX) and Alpha computers still running at a place I worked about 10 years ago. PDP-11s I'm not so sure about.
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My lucky number is 75898524288+1 | |
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Well since we are just throwing things out here, how about this one. We already have a lot of challenges. In some folks eyes the challenges take time away from what pet projects they enjoy participating in, along with some team things going on. So why not just dedicate the total primegrid output for X number of days in honor of Lennart. There will still be a dedication to the gentleman, and it will all be in honor of his love of everything supporting finding primes. Because at the end of the day here that's what this is all about. The first year just starts a baseline. The second year and so on, is to try to beat the previous year's output in primes, factors, points, etc. Everyone gets to crunch what they want and the project still benefits. | |
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dthonon Volunteer tester
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Joined: 6 Dec 17 Posts: 435 ID: 957147 Credit: 1,764,496,687 RAC: 57,870
                                 
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If you're willing to use something like a micro-VAX or a PDP-11, you could go back a bit further on the calendar.
Any of those still running today?
Probably. I know there were still VAX (but not micro-VAX) and Alpha computers still running at a place I worked about 10 years ago. PDP-11s I'm not so sure about.
At work, we still have quite a few Solar running, which were PDP-11-like computers built in France in the 80's. And they are expected to run for another 10 to 20 years.
See https://aconit.inria.fr/omeka/exhibits/show/collections-aconit/mini-ordinateurs/minis-francais.html for more details. | |
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KEP Send message
Joined: 10 Aug 05 Posts: 303 ID: 110 Credit: 13,001,669 RAC: 23,247
          
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Well since we are just throwing things out here, how about this one. We already have a lot of challenges. In some folks eyes the challenges take time away from what pet projects they enjoy participating in, along with some team things going on. So why not just dedicate the total primegrid output for X number of days in honor of Lennart. There will still be a dedication to the gentleman, and it will all be in honor of his love of everything supporting finding primes. Because at the end of the day here that's what this is all about. The first year just starts a baseline. The second year and so on, is to try to beat the previous year's output in primes, factors, points, etc. Everyone gets to crunch what they want and the project still benefits.
Well I still prefer if we ended up doing ESP. Not just because it would really push the Extended Sierpinski Project a lot, but also because that project was started by Lennart (not just double checked and prepared), Lennart was in fact also very interested in the conjectures (so it would be right down Lennarts alley of desires) and if we run 65 days on the ESP (or split in 2 parts for those only like running a short challenge and those in for the entire 65 days challenge) we very well might see 1 or 2 new primes fall on the Sierpinski side :)
I understand that running a challenge for 65 days with 1 focus project is extraordinary and it is a long time, but a matter of fact is that the conjectures (both here and at CRUS) wouldn´t have been where they are today if it werent for big ressources from Lennart :) ... also it is a one time suggestion to honor Lennart so we will propably not see such long challenge ever again (in near future) :) | |
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Dave  Send message
Joined: 13 Feb 12 Posts: 3257 ID: 130544 Credit: 2,459,260,966 RAC: 4,370,694
                           
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Sounds good to me - it's a one-off like you say & it will be an interesting feeling to PG overall to have this massive challenge going on for all that time. How about someone set up a vote? | |
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robish Volunteer moderator Volunteer tester
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Joined: 7 Jan 12 Posts: 2223 ID: 126266 Credit: 7,973,006,583 RAC: 5,441,534
                               
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How about a happy medium, one day for every K he found. 22! :)
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My lucky number 10590941048576+1 | |
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Perhaps we can ask Lennart (or his wife) what he/she would prefer?
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DeleteNull | |
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KEP Send message
Joined: 10 Aug 05 Posts: 303 ID: 110 Credit: 13,001,669 RAC: 23,247
          
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Did we end up with a conclusion on the various suggestions in this thread? :)
Happy late summer everyone
KEP :) | |
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What about ppse? Lennart found the vast majority of his primes in this project. | |
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How about a 65 HOUR challenge? And, make it a combo CPU AND GPU, and allow bunkering.... Best of all worlds - short time frame that gets a lot of crunching done!
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RogerVolunteer developer Volunteer tester
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Joined: 27 Nov 11 Posts: 1138 ID: 120786 Credit: 268,668,824 RAC: 0
                    
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I like the idea of an ESP challenge. A bigger than usual challenge gives bigger than usual chance of finding a prime. However 65 days is a big chunk of time vs other demands at Primegrid. Participating in a challenge is Voluntary though, so people could choose how much they want to participate to honour Lennart and the work he did at Primegrid and other prime finding projects. I also thought about 6.5 day challenge, but I think we can do better than that. | |
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Monkeydee Volunteer tester
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Joined: 8 Dec 13 Posts: 548 ID: 284516 Credit: 1,725,565,773 RAC: 3,187,175
                            
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I also thought about 6.5 day challenge, but I think we can do better than that.
A 13.5 day challenge where 13*5 is 65.
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My Primes
Badge Score: 4*2 + 6*2 + 7*1 + 8*11 + 9*1 + 11*3 + 12*1 = 169
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I think 13 days is best length. Cause it's the largest factor of 65. | |
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Honary challenge in 2019 - what do people think? |