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Message boards : General discussion : SoB Wait Frustration

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NeoMetal*
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Eliminated 1 conjecture "k"Found 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de Primes321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,698,294)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,655,866)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,198,062)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,817,032)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,016,096)PSP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,891,779)SoB LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,111,741)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,278,494)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,457,856)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,714,186)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,726,778)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,094,130)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,628,594)PPS Sieve Double Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000,000 credits (1,040,865,445)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,235,150)TRP Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,376,844)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,615,539)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (427,593,017)PSA Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (125,462,363)
Message 97013 - Posted: 21 Jul 2016 | 10:52:28 UTC

This particular Wu has had 4 timeouts since January. VERY frustrating:
http://www.primegrid.com/workunit.php?wuid=462150454

For long tasks (Sob, PSP, GFN21/22 and maybe CUL/WOO), what if after 2 timeouts (or maybe just 1), the next WU is then sent to a dependable host using similar detection methods in sending 1 quorum tasks for PPSE/PPS/SGS to dependable hosts. Is that even possible (I would think so) and if so would it be an easy change/fix with the Primegrid server?

If this kind of validation delay happens with newer crunchers and people who never read the message boards, they may get discouraged and leave without aborting, adding to the abandonment issues. Possibly even telling other people "Don't go to Primegrid, you won't get credit for what seems like forever", before they understand how things work here. This change would also help to satisfy regular/long term crunchers, wanting shorter waits.

Also, not allowing these longer tasks to new users until they run and validate some shorter ones (maybe 5,000 or 10,000 cobblestones worth) could weed out a new cruncher who downloads a bunch of long tasks and either then leaves right away or realizing they take a looong time and just quits, abandoning them. This is no big deal with shorter tasks, but when this happens over and over to the same long WU, well it frustrates even patient people. There's got to be a better way to address the repeating abandonment/timeout issues then just let it be.

And a basic FAQ with a link from the main page has been suggested before or maybe a "New Users Please Read Before Starting" link in big bold fonts, with suggestions of starting with shorter tasks and the basics of the preference page. Good information in the RIGHT place can do wonders.


____________
Largest Primes to Date:
As Double Checker: SR5 109208*5^1816285+1 Dgts-1,269,534
As Initial Finder: SR5 243944*5^1258576-1 Dgts-879,713


Profile Michael GoetzProject donor
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The "Shut up already!" badge:  This loud mouth has mansplained on the forums over 10 thousand times!  Sheesh!!!Discovered the World's First GFN-19 prime!!!Discovered 2 mega primesFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2021 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2022 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2022 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2022 Tour de Primes Mountain Stage321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,638,389)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,038,114)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,177,890)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,094,541)PPS LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (23,642,050)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,956,186)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (36,067,618)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,645,567)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,037,630)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,084,329)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,032,821)321 Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,061,196)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,170,256)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,059,304)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,885,121)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,902,645)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (92,455,703)WW Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (65,888,000)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,445,029)
Message 97015 - Posted: 21 Jul 2016 | 11:31:37 UTC - in response to Message 97013.

And a basic FAQ with a link from the main page has been suggested before or maybe a "New Users Please Read Before Starting" link in big bold fonts, with suggestions of starting with shorter tasks and the basics of the preference page. Good information in the RIGHT place can do wonders.


The Wiki is being improved to have pages answering a lot of those FAQ-like questions.

Also, there was no big announcement of this change, but a while ago I changed how the server works to make it much less likely for it to send out long tasks to users inadvertently. It used to be that new users would get a random selection of tasks, including SoB. That's not ideal. They're not as likely to complete long tasks, and if they do, as you say, they're probably not expecting a long wait for validation. So it's less likely to happen now than in the past.

Thank you for your suggestions. While long waits are certainly annoying, I do not believe that establishing prerequisites for running the long tasks is the way to go. There's quite a few problems with this idea:

* It likely won't go over well with people who have just spent thousands on a brand new, state of the art, top of the line cruncher and then can't use it to run the big tasks.

* It has the potential to totally block some use cases where people are using cloud servers to crunch. The hosts may appear and vanish frequently.

* There's lots of ways of inadvertently causing a computer to become a new BOINC host, which would put it in the position of having to "prove" itself again before running the tasks you've selected.

* For people who are managing large numbers of computers, having to first put new hosts on a "starter app" before moving them to the app they actually want to crunch is an unnecessary burden.

* It will cause havoc during challenges on long tasks as people bring new computers online only to find they can't run the challenge tasks.
____________
My lucky number is 75898524288+1

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Discovered 2 mega primesEliminated 1 conjecture "k"Discovered 1 twin prime2022 Tour de Primes largest primeFound 1 prime in the 2022 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2022 Tour de Primes321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,709,103)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,681,452)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,421,149)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,267,839)PPS LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (24,198,975)PSP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,783,817)SoB LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (13,332,361)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,248,659)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,878,856)TRP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,153,506)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (9,224,032)321 Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,000,576)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,000,977)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,843,367)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (80,503,891)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,473,750)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,243,608)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,741,619)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (493,124,232)WW Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (728,552,000)PSA Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,042,125)
Message 97017 - Posted: 21 Jul 2016 | 13:16:54 UTC

One thing Michael didn't mention, no one is in a hurry, except the person waiting for the task to finish. I know it's frustrating, but it's much better now with the adaptive timeouts. I have been crunching a long time and back when those tasks had a longer timeout value, it at times was forever to get one finished.

This project is one that patience is needed. Those tasks as you realize are super long, and they take days/weeks to finish.

Happy crunching and hope you have a good wingperson soon.

Profile Rafael
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321 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,008,611)Cullen LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,005,009)ESP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,041,747)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,000,820)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,020,730)PSP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,049,767)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,494,886)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,003,746)SGS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,002,215)TRP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,011,903)Woodall LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,076,850)321 Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,033,828)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,037,204)PPS Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,305,147)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,000,053)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,030,160)AP 26/27 Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,015,953)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,564,025)WW Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,712,000)PSA Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (170,761,999)
Message 97019 - Posted: 21 Jul 2016 | 16:48:36 UTC - in response to Message 97015.

* It likely won't go over well with people who have just spent thousands on a brand new, state of the art, top of the line cruncher and then can't use it to run the big tasks.

* It has the potential to totally block some use cases where people are using cloud servers to crunch. The hosts may appear and vanish frequently.

* There's lots of ways of inadvertently causing a computer to become a new BOINC host, which would put it in the position of having to "prove" itself again before running the tasks you've selected.

* For people who are managing large numbers of computers, having to first put new hosts on a "starter app" before moving them to the app they actually want to crunch is an unnecessary burden.

* It will cause havoc during challenges on long tasks as people bring new computers online only to find they can't run the challenge tasks.

I think he meant on a user account basis rather than a single host/PC basis... at least that's how I interpret it and how I think it would make sense to implement.

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Found 2 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2020 Tour de Primes321 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,087,388)Cullen LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,317,185)ESP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,172,211)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,209,354)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,660,163)PSP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,201,555)SoB LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,760,496)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,015,905)SGS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,046,746)TRP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,101,369)Woodall LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,353,360)321 Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,003,334)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (268,250)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,000,502)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (310,223,017)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,000,133)TRP Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,000,970)AP 26/27 Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (206,395,150)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (204,159,637)WW Double Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000,000 credits (1,040,684,000)PSA Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (200,000,001)
Message 97021 - Posted: 21 Jul 2016 | 20:25:37 UTC

The goal is getting it in the bag not the resulting credit :). That is automatic (eventually). While waiting to validate you can carry on with other tasks of course so effectively multitasking.

Sorry this sounds simple & obvious - I've had a long day & PG isn't #1 on my mind at the min...

NeoMetal*
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Eliminated 1 conjecture "k"Found 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de Primes321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,698,294)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,655,866)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,198,062)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,817,032)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,016,096)PSP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,891,779)SoB LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,111,741)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,278,494)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,457,856)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,714,186)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,726,778)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,094,130)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,628,594)PPS Sieve Double Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000,000 credits (1,040,865,445)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,235,150)TRP Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,376,844)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,615,539)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (427,593,017)PSA Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (125,462,363)
Message 97022 - Posted: 21 Jul 2016 | 22:11:50 UTC
Last modified: 21 Jul 2016 | 22:54:45 UTC

I should have pointed out that the part of better informing new/newer users as being my most important point. Link(s) from the TOP of the main page (in the box maybe. some people won't even scroll down) for new users to see easily is a must I think. Just updating the needed info doesn't help newbies unless there's an obvious link to it. The dependable host/account idea just came first.

I've been here for just over 5 years so I've experience long waits in the past, sometimes longer than this last long wait. It's just the latest one with 4 timeouts had me thinking again.

I do just keep on crunchin' on all available cores, aside from hardware breakdowns such as losing 4 GPUs n the last 6 months alone including 3 Fermis (all bought used over the past 3 years but were relatively cheap), as well as 2 PSUs and the occasional internet interruptions which only really effect short tasks with 0 cache set.

Maybe this should be Primegrid's motto: Keep On Crunchin'

ADDED I'm all for the extending deadlines through trickle up and letting that be, but just wanted to point out that one of the time outs had been extended (sent 18 Apr 2016 | 0:23:30 UTC - timed out 9 Jul 2016 | 19:20:16 UTC) so he had been crunching for a while but probably just gave up and left. Unfortunate.
____________
Largest Primes to Date:
As Double Checker: SR5 109208*5^1816285+1 Dgts-1,269,534
As Initial Finder: SR5 243944*5^1258576-1 Dgts-879,713


Message boards : General discussion : SoB Wait Frustration

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