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Message boards : General discussion : AMD's Zen CPU To Be Close To Skylake Performance

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NeoMetal*
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Joined: 25 Mar 11
Posts: 418
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Credit: 1,747,428,303
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Eliminated 1 conjecture "k"Found 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de Primes321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,698,294)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,655,866)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,198,062)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,817,032)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,016,096)PSP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,891,779)SoB LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,111,741)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,278,494)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,457,856)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,714,186)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,726,778)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,094,130)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,628,594)PPS Sieve Double Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000,000 credits (1,040,865,445)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,235,150)TRP Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,376,844)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,615,539)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (427,593,017)PSA Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (125,462,363)
Message 95147 - Posted: 20 May 2016 | 5:11:25 UTC

Here's the latest info on AMD's new Zen CPU design. Coming in October. Will compete with Intel with IPC between Broadwell and Skylake and with full fat FP64 cores. Comments?
http://wccftech.com/amd-zen-competes-intel-performance-features-price-launching-2016/


____________
Largest Primes to Date:
As Double Checker: SR5 109208*5^1816285+1 Dgts-1,269,534
As Initial Finder: SR5 243944*5^1258576-1 Dgts-879,713


mackerelProject donor
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Joined: 2 Oct 08
Posts: 2590
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Credit: 560,531,200
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Discovered 6 mega primesEliminated 1 conjecture "k"Found 3 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 5 primes in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 6 primes in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 5 primes in the 2021 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2022 Tour de Primes321 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,736,922)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,903,451)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,207,880)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,714,227)PPS LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (119,960,737)PSP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (16,676,406)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,019,367)SR5 LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (26,030,253)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,361,220)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (34,130)TRP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (36,237,439)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,171,820)321 Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,236,219)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,383,853)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,626,419)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (76,969,144)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,293,882)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,012,757)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (27,813,588)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (90,898,231)WW Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (43,304,000)PSA Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,939,755)
Message 95151 - Posted: 20 May 2016 | 8:07:19 UTC - in response to Message 95147.

We need some real stats, not random waffle from some marketing exec. I want to believe.

Not fully awake yet, but the chart WCCF has been posting for a while only shows one 256-bit FP unit per core, compared to two per Intel core. If this proves correct you'd still need twice as many AMD cores to equal one Intel one for LLR/genefer tasks, unless there is something else major going on.

NeoMetal*
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Joined: 25 Mar 11
Posts: 418
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Credit: 1,747,428,303
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Eliminated 1 conjecture "k"Found 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de Primes321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,698,294)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,655,866)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,198,062)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,817,032)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,016,096)PSP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,891,779)SoB LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,111,741)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,278,494)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,457,856)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,714,186)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,726,778)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,094,130)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,628,594)PPS Sieve Double Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000,000 credits (1,040,865,445)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,235,150)TRP Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,376,844)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,615,539)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (427,593,017)PSA Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (125,462,363)
Message 95154 - Posted: 20 May 2016 | 9:44:48 UTC - in response to Message 95151.

We need some real stats, not random waffle from some marketing exec. I want to believe.

Not fully awake yet, but the chart WCCF has been posting for a while only shows one 256-bit FP unit per core, compared to two per Intel core. If this proves correct you'd still need twice as many AMD cores to equal one Intel one for LLR/genefer tasks, unless there is something else major going on.

I read awhile back that it's supposed to have 512 bit AVX. Whether it's a single 512 bit or two 256 bit pipeline(s) I don't remember. Hopefully it's up to par with Intel when it comes to LLR/Genefer.
____________
Largest Primes to Date:
As Double Checker: SR5 109208*5^1816285+1 Dgts-1,269,534
As Initial Finder: SR5 243944*5^1258576-1 Dgts-879,713


mackerelProject donor
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Joined: 2 Oct 08
Posts: 2590
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Credit: 560,531,200
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Discovered 6 mega primesEliminated 1 conjecture "k"Found 3 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 5 primes in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 6 primes in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 5 primes in the 2021 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2022 Tour de Primes321 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,736,922)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,903,451)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,207,880)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,714,227)PPS LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (119,960,737)PSP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (16,676,406)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,019,367)SR5 LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (26,030,253)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,361,220)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (34,130)TRP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (36,237,439)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,171,820)321 Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,236,219)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,383,853)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,626,419)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (76,969,144)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,293,882)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,012,757)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (27,813,588)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (90,898,231)WW Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (43,304,000)PSA Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,939,755)
Message 95157 - Posted: 20 May 2016 | 11:26:42 UTC - in response to Message 95154.

Problem we have is without info we're guessing. WCCF claimed to have worked out the FPU structure from Linux kernel updates, suggesting it is 2x128 bit that can work as a single 256. Intel have two such units each capable of 256 per core. No mention of AVX512 that I'm aware of. If it happens, great, assuming they don't pull tricks like previous generations where although they have desirable instructions the throughput was so bad they were worthless.

Oh, the other caution I have is, let's assume AMD have a CPU that is comparable to Intel. They say they don't want to be the cheap option... I'm reading that as, high performance, high price. Would there be any benefit over Intel left? Practically speaking, I think they will still have to offer more value than Intel at any performance level to shift units.

NeoMetal*
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Joined: 25 Mar 11
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Eliminated 1 conjecture "k"Found 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de Primes321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,698,294)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,655,866)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,198,062)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,817,032)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,016,096)PSP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,891,779)SoB LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,111,741)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,278,494)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,457,856)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,714,186)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,726,778)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,094,130)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,628,594)PPS Sieve Double Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000,000 credits (1,040,865,445)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,235,150)TRP Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,376,844)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,615,539)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (427,593,017)PSA Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (125,462,363)
Message 95161 - Posted: 20 May 2016 | 13:53:41 UTC
Last modified: 20 May 2016 | 14:06:49 UTC

Well I found detailed info on AVX (128 bit), AVX2 (256 bit) and AVX512 bit on Wikipedia. Intel only has AVX512 bit on their Knights Landing Phi processor currently and won't be on their mainstream CPUs until Cannon Lake.

As far as AMD is concerned Zen will have 256 bit AVX. And now I remember reading awhile back that AMD will have 512 bit AVX on their Zen+ CPU due in late 2017.

Guesses on price for an 8 core Zen have all been under $300 from different articles I've read compared with Intel's 6900K for around ~$1000. Let's hope that it is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Vector_Extensions
____________
Largest Primes to Date:
As Double Checker: SR5 109208*5^1816285+1 Dgts-1,269,534
As Initial Finder: SR5 243944*5^1258576-1 Dgts-879,713


mackerelProject donor
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Joined: 2 Oct 08
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Discovered 6 mega primesEliminated 1 conjecture "k"Found 3 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 5 primes in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 6 primes in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 5 primes in the 2021 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2022 Tour de Primes321 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,736,922)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,903,451)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,207,880)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,714,227)PPS LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (119,960,737)PSP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (16,676,406)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,019,367)SR5 LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (26,030,253)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,361,220)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (34,130)TRP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (36,237,439)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,171,820)321 Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,236,219)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,383,853)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,626,419)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (76,969,144)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,293,882)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,012,757)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (27,813,588)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (90,898,231)WW Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (43,304,000)PSA Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,939,755)
Message 95162 - Posted: 20 May 2016 | 15:03:13 UTC - in response to Message 95161.

If an AMD CPU really was as good as an Intel $1000 one, I don't think they would ask $300 for it. AMD really need the cash.

Now, I could believe that an AMD $300 CPU could be close to an Intel $300 CPU, which is almost as fast as the $1000 one.

It is possible AMD will once again play the "many cores" card, and there are few 8 core Intel CPUs outside the silly priced ones to compare with. My fear is based on what WCCF have posted, the Zen FPU performance will be half that of Intel per core, but with double the offered Zen cores the overall throughput will be comparable. We will have to wait and see.

Profile Michael GoetzProject donor
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The "Shut up already!" badge:  This loud mouth has mansplained on the forums over 10 thousand times!  Sheesh!!!Discovered the World's First GFN-19 prime!!!Discovered 2 mega primesFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2021 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2022 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2022 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2022 Tour de Primes Mountain Stage321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,638,389)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,038,114)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,177,890)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,094,541)PPS LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (23,642,050)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,956,186)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (36,067,618)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (13,659,368)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,037,630)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,242,607)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,032,821)321 Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,061,196)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,170,256)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,059,304)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,885,121)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,902,645)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (92,455,703)WW Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (70,844,000)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,445,029)
Message 95167 - Posted: 20 May 2016 | 16:55:29 UTC

The chip will come out, and likely both George and Yves will test AVX & FMA enabled code on the new CPU. All prognostication aside, the devil is in the details and we won't really know how it performs -- and whether AVX is useful in a meaningful way, until we can test the software on the actual iron.

AMD has been essentially a non-player in the prime finding game for about 5 years now. Everyone (except Intel) would love to see that change.
____________
My lucky number is 75898524288+1

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Found 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de PrimesESP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,611,126)PPS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,530,631)PSP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,186,961)SoB LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,302,280)SR5 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (482,968)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,558,318)321 Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,633,882)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (64,186)TRP Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (259,649)PSA Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (456,059)
Message 95173 - Posted: 21 May 2016 | 11:30:18 UTC

Well, I tried an AMD eight years ago and swore never to go back. The AMD was a sieving beast and since I was testing non-base 2 numbers it competed in 2008 pretty well with my Intel, however the AMD, even though it was cheap, had a mayor downside, that Intel has not had for the past 10 years (if ever): The AMD kept running hotter and hotter and fried the entire computer, in stead of just throttle down, like Intel CPU's does.

So does modern AMD CPU's throttle down to keep cool (Like Intel CPU's) or does they still keep running 100% untill the hardware (including the CPU) dies a hot and evil death?

Either way, I'm most likely staying with Intel CPU's, since they are reliable and hard to kill.

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Discovered 6 mega primesEliminated 1 conjecture "k"Found 3 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 5 primes in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 6 primes in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 5 primes in the 2021 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2022 Tour de Primes321 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,736,922)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,903,451)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,207,880)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,714,227)PPS LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (119,960,737)PSP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (16,676,406)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,019,367)SR5 LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (26,030,253)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,361,220)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (34,130)TRP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (36,237,439)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,171,820)321 Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,236,219)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,383,853)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,626,419)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (76,969,144)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,293,882)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,012,757)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (27,813,588)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (90,898,231)WW Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (43,304,000)PSA Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,939,755)
Message 95174 - Posted: 21 May 2016 | 13:12:16 UTC - in response to Message 95173.

I'm sure AMD CPUs going back even before 2008 had thermal protection built into them. How effective that is, is another matter. I would imagine a stock CPU should survive that, but bets are off if overclocked. Best way of course is not to have to test it. For continuous high loads adequate cooling is a must with monitoring also to make sure that doesn't change. I've had to dust the cooler before to restore good working performance.

Profile Michael GoetzProject donor
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The "Shut up already!" badge:  This loud mouth has mansplained on the forums over 10 thousand times!  Sheesh!!!Discovered the World's First GFN-19 prime!!!Discovered 2 mega primesFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2021 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2022 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2022 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2022 Tour de Primes Mountain Stage321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,638,389)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,038,114)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,177,890)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,094,541)PPS LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (23,642,050)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,956,186)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (36,067,618)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (13,659,368)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,037,630)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,242,607)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,032,821)321 Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,061,196)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,170,256)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,059,304)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,885,121)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,902,645)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (92,455,703)WW Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (70,844,000)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,445,029)
Message 95178 - Posted: 21 May 2016 | 14:31:24 UTC - in response to Message 95174.
Last modified: 21 May 2016 | 14:33:00 UTC

I'm sure AMD CPUs going back even before 2008 had thermal protection built into them.


Actually, no. This is a rather well known difference between Intel and AMD CPUs. Once which even people who aren't math geeks can appreciate.

Go to youtube -- you'll see plenty of examples of the difference KEP mentions. It's a simple test, actually. Fire up your favorite graphics-intensive game, and while it's running, pull the CPU heatsink off. Yes, you read that right.

If it's an Intel CPU, you'll see the game's framerate drop to 2 or so as the CPU throttles back to keep temperatures in check.

If it's an AMD CPU, it will (literally) go up in smoke.

Now, I don't know if that's still true for the latest and greatest AMD CPUs, but it's certainly been true as of only a few years ago, and certainly much more recently than 2008.

(And no, I don't recommend you run that test yourself. Better to go watch someone else do the heatsink test on THEIR expensive Intel CPU.)
____________
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Message 95179 - Posted: 21 May 2016 | 15:33:26 UTC - in response to Message 95178.

I'm aware of that, but I thought that was from much earlier, like Athlon XP days. Still, the heatsink falling off is a rather catastrophic event. Even if the fan stopped spinning it would provide some level of inadequate cooling but should be enough to prevent spontaneous combustion.

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Message 95180 - Posted: 21 May 2016 | 16:34:28 UTC - in response to Message 95179.

I'm aware of that, but I thought that was from much earlier, like Athlon XP days. Still, the heatsink falling off is a rather catastrophic event. Even if the fan stopped spinning it would provide some level of inadequate cooling but should be enough to prevent spontaneous combustion.


Well, the heatsink did not fall off, everything remained intact, but I kept running 100% without knowing that I was killing my machine and within few days the machine litterally stopped working. So no matter what AMD comes up with, I'm staying with Intel.

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The "Shut up already!" badge:  This loud mouth has mansplained on the forums over 10 thousand times!  Sheesh!!!Discovered the World's First GFN-19 prime!!!Discovered 2 mega primesFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2021 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2022 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2022 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2022 Tour de Primes Mountain Stage321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,638,389)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,038,114)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,177,890)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,094,541)PPS LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (23,642,050)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,956,186)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (36,067,618)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (13,659,368)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,037,630)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,242,607)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,032,821)321 Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,061,196)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,170,256)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,059,304)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,885,121)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,902,645)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (92,455,703)WW Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (70,844,000)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,445,029)
Message 95181 - Posted: 21 May 2016 | 17:03:38 UTC - in response to Message 95179.

Still, the heatsink falling off is a rather catastrophic event. Even if the fan stopped spinning it would provide some level of inadequate cooling but should be enough to prevent spontaneous combustion.


The point isn't that heatsinks are falling off CPUs. The point is that AMD's CPUs lack thermal protection, so relatively common events that can cause overheating (excessive dust, a failed or failing fan, blocked vents, aging thermal paste, etc.) can overheat and kill an AMD CPU. That's much less likely with Intel CPUs which will slow themselves down if they overheat.

Heat happens. Only one of the two main CPU vendors produces chips smart enough not to die when it happens. Maybe it's planned obsolescence?

(P.S. If more recent AMD CPUs actually do have thermal protection, that would be a really good change. I used to be a big AMD fan, and think a 2nd real CPU vendor would be great for all of us. But AMD has been moving in the wrong direction ever since Bulldozer.)
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Message 95182 - Posted: 21 May 2016 | 19:33:57 UTC - in response to Message 95181.

I had a quick search to see what info was available and so far not come up with much. There's an old Tom's Hardware video from 2005 showing what happens when the heatsink is removed, and that shows AMD cores letting the magic smoke out whereas Intel CPUs of the era survive no problem. These CPUs were even older than I recall. I'm fairly certain reading AMD also started putting similar thermal protection in not long after, although I have not located a confirmation of such.

If there is a cheap enough sacrificial mobo, I do have a spare AMD CPU I'm willing to roast as a test. It isn't the best choice as it is a Sempron 140, a single core at 2.7 GHz rated at 45W. That's got to be worth a few youtube views? :)

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The "Shut up already!" badge:  This loud mouth has mansplained on the forums over 10 thousand times!  Sheesh!!!Discovered the World's First GFN-19 prime!!!Discovered 2 mega primesFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2021 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2022 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2022 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2022 Tour de Primes Mountain Stage321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,638,389)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,038,114)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,177,890)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,094,541)PPS LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (23,642,050)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,956,186)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (36,067,618)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (13,659,368)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,037,630)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,242,607)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,032,821)321 Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,061,196)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,170,256)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,059,304)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,885,121)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,902,645)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (92,455,703)WW Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (70,844,000)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,445,029)
Message 95183 - Posted: 21 May 2016 | 20:22:02 UTC - in response to Message 95182.

I had a quick search to see what info was available and so far not come up with much. There's an old Tom's Hardware video from 2005 showing what happens when the heatsink is removed, and that shows AMD cores letting the magic smoke out whereas Intel CPUs of the era survive no problem. These CPUs were even older than I recall. I'm fairly certain reading AMD also started putting similar thermal protection in not long after, although I have not located a confirmation of such.

If there is a cheap enough sacrificial mobo, I do have a spare AMD CPU I'm willing to roast as a test. It isn't the best choice as it is a Sempron 140, a single core at 2.7 GHz rated at 45W. That's got to be worth a few youtube views? :)


You may be right -- I did find such a video that was posted only two years ago, but the text claims the video's from the early 2000's. On the other hand, it might be that it's simply harder to find the relevant videos.

Update: I did some research on this. Not much, but some. :) I found a 10 year old forum thread at anadtech. Although the video is legit, this is actually more of an urban legend than fact. The same question "do AMD CPUs still burn up?" was asked in 2006, referring the the video which is from 2001, and even when the video was made they were comparing then-modern Intel CPUs to fairly old AMD CPUs which lacked thermal protection. Bottom line: AMD CPUs should be just as boring as Intel CPUs when you remove the heatsink.

BTW, I can personally attest to the Intel thermal protection working as intended. When I first got my Haswell i5, for laughs I ran the motherboard utility to do automatic overclocking optimization while I still had the stock cooler installed. And then I started LLR. (This is NOT recommended!!!) Temperatures instantly rose to the redline -- and stopped exactly at the limit as the CPU slowed down to manage the temperatures.
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Message 95184 - Posted: 21 May 2016 | 23:05:19 UTC

I can personally Attest, that AMD CPUs Do have a termal protection.
My CPU a while ago was the AMD Phenom X II 940 which i ran on various LLR Projects here. I did in fact throttle down to 800 MHz if temperatures where high enough.
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Message 95185 - Posted: 22 May 2016 | 1:13:47 UTC
Last modified: 22 May 2016 | 1:25:57 UTC

After looking around my self I've found that starting with Bulldozer there is a thermal throttle which is set on or off by the BIOS, And since Zen will be so much like modern Intel CPUs I'm sure there will be similar throttling as Intel's. Here's one site among others I've found.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1202751/amd-fx-cpu-throttling-fixes-please-sticky

My Phenon II 1100T has motherboard settings to limit temps but I don't think the CPU itself is throttled internally but the motherboard controls it.

PS: I use Tthrottle to control both my CPU and GPU temps even before they reach their critical or self throttling temps including my Intels.
____________
Largest Primes to Date:
As Double Checker: SR5 109208*5^1816285+1 Dgts-1,269,534
As Initial Finder: SR5 243944*5^1258576-1 Dgts-879,713


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Message 95187 - Posted: 22 May 2016 | 1:50:30 UTC
Last modified: 22 May 2016 | 1:52:11 UTC

I also found this on how older Intel CPUs throttling works and probably today's Intels still work. Hopefully the new Zen CPUs will work similarly(crossing fingers).

Clock Throttle

Common Options : 12.5%, 25.0%, 37.5%, 50.0%, 62.5%, 75.0%, 87.5%

Quick Review

This BIOS feature allows manual configuration of the Thermal Control Circuit. Instead of allowing the TCC to automatically start with a duty cycle of 30-50%, you can manually set the duty cycle.
Available options for this BIOS feature are set values of the processor's duty cycle when the Thermal Control Circuit gets activated. They range from a low of 12.5% to a high of 87.5%. Please note that these options reflect the processor's duty cycle, not its clock speed. The clock speed of the processor remains unchanged.

If you are looking for a Disabled option, there is no such option. You cannot turn off the Thermal Control Circuit. But if you keep your processor cool enough so that it never exceeds the maximum safe operating temperature, the Thermal Control Circuit will never get activated.

The default setting is usually 62.5%. This means the Thermal Control Circuit will insert null cycles to allow the processor to "rest" 37.5% of the time.

The choice of what you should set the Thermal Control Circuit to run at is really up to you. The lower the duty cycle, the slower your processor will perform but it will take less time to cool down the processor enough to turn off the TCC. Using a higher duty cycle will not impair performance as much but it will take longer for your processor to cool down enough to turn off the TCC.

This is also how Tthrottle works but using software instead of the built in CPU thermal circuit to dynamically control temps.
____________
Largest Primes to Date:
As Double Checker: SR5 109208*5^1816285+1 Dgts-1,269,534
As Initial Finder: SR5 243944*5^1258576-1 Dgts-879,713


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Message 95188 - Posted: 22 May 2016 | 3:38:07 UTC - in response to Message 95185.

My Phenon II 1100T has motherboard settings to limit temps but I don't think the CPU itself is throttled internally but the motherboard controls it.


This is what I've seen on my Athlon64 2800+ (S754), Athlon X2 3800+ (AM2), Athlon X2 5200+ (AM2), Athlon II X4 635, and AMD FX8120. In all cases there was a thermal shutdown setting as well as "Cool & Quiet" to do throttling.
The common advice way back in the day was to turn off C&Q because it was "buggy" and would "lower performance". But you would also lose the safety net of a thermal shutdown temperature.
I remember a distinct event at a LAN party where my CPU fan failed on the Athlon64 2800+, this was back in 2006, and after the CPU hit the defined shutdown temperature of 85C my system blue screened and shut down. Everything still worked after that.

But then there's always "fry an egg on an XP"... But I can't seem to find a good video on it anymore... However, I owned an Athlon XP as well and I do vaguely remember that having some kind of thermal shutdown option.

I've been an AMD fan for a very long time. My current i7-4790 is my first Intel desktop CPU since a Pentium 3 550 back in 2000. I would go back to AMD very quickly if Zen has comparable performance/wattage/price to modern Intel CPU's. AMD always had the better performance/price in applications other than distributed computing, but they could also always act as space heaters which is fantastic in the winter, not so much in the summer.
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Discovered 1 mega prime321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,066,244)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,074,615)ESP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,243,517)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,142,353)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,293,199)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,232,103)SoB LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,934,612)SR5 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,071,823)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,780,752)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,681,647)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,014,811)321 Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (23,770,672)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (944,431)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,813,253)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (379,578,052)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,446,797)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (33,880,340)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (67,579,656)WW Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,092,000)PSA Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,457,430)
Message 95198 - Posted: 22 May 2016 | 10:59:36 UTC - in response to Message 95188.

I've been an AMD fan for a very long time. My current i7-4790 is my first Intel desktop CPU since a Pentium 3 550 back in 2000. I would go back to AMD very quickly if Zen has comparable performance/wattage/price to modern Intel CPU's. AMD always had the better performance/price in applications other than distributed computing, but they could also always act as space heaters which is fantastic in the winter, not so much in the summer.


I too mostly use AMD cpu's, they are significantly cheaper and although they do some things, ie PG slower, they can pound out the units for less money per workunit. Since there are many Boinc Projects unless someone is purely focusing on one project then buying for price is the way to get more pc's for the same amount of money. I can buy an older AMD 6300 6 core cpu with a motherboard and 16gb of ram for about $200 on sale, while for about $400 or so I could get a decent Intel setup. I can get two AMD setups for the price of one Intel setup, all that's assuming that someone already has all the other needed parts to build the rest of the pc's, which I do. NO I won't be finding all the mega primes, but slogging thru the other units is needed too.

GDB
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Joined: 15 Nov 11
Posts: 282
ID: 119185
Credit: 3,575,539,742
RAC: 2,278,220
Discovered 2 mega primesFound 1 prime in the 2022 Tour de Primes321 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (13,480,830)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,837,403)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,600,055)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,659,159)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (18,476,504)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,468,468)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (21,647,423)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,839,538)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,688,853)TRP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,570,052)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,099,498)321 Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,834,160)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,647,915)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,373,349)PPS Sieve Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (502,046,632)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,080,038)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,803,337)AP 26/27 Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (200,108,285)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (370,054,410)WW Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (500,196,000)PSA Double Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000,000 credits (1,863,027,834)
Message 95200 - Posted: 22 May 2016 | 11:45:13 UTC - in response to Message 95198.

I think you missing the big picture here. You're just looking at fixed (hardware) costs. Unless you're getting your energy for free, <10% of your total lifetime outlay will go for equipment. More than 90% of your total outlay will go for energy. So, the best use of your capital will be the most energy efficient system. Any comparison should first compare energy usage per unit of work. Actual hardware cost almost becomes meaningless when you see how much you're paying for energy over your hardware's lifetime.

mackerelProject donor
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Joined: 2 Oct 08
Posts: 2590
ID: 29980
Credit: 560,531,200
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Discovered 6 mega primesEliminated 1 conjecture "k"Found 3 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 5 primes in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 6 primes in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 5 primes in the 2021 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2022 Tour de Primes321 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,736,922)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,903,451)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,207,880)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,714,227)PPS LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (119,960,737)PSP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (16,676,406)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,019,367)SR5 LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (26,030,253)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,361,220)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (34,130)TRP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (36,237,439)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,171,820)321 Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,236,219)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,383,853)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,626,419)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (76,969,144)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,293,882)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,012,757)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (27,813,588)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (90,898,231)WW Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (43,304,000)PSA Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,939,755)
Message 95202 - Posted: 22 May 2016 | 12:43:42 UTC - in response to Message 95200.

It is hard to work out things like lifetime ownership costs as it will vary not only with region but also with time.

Right now, my electricity supplier charges me a usage based part of around £0.10/kWh (there is also a fixed cost which can't be avoided, so that will be disregarded). While not exact, it does approximate close enough to £1/W running continuously per year.

A past measurement shows I can get a quad core Skylake at 4 GHz running around 120W, so £120/year in electricity. Even keeping it fairly barebones, the system cost would be around £400-500. So we're looking at running it continuously for ball park of 4 years before energy costs equal up front costs. Similarly I have done a hypothetical build with an i3-6100, that could be done around £200 with a CPU only TDP of 51W. Assuming system would be around 65W perhaps, we're still looking at over 3 years before energy costs equal the up front cost.

I don't have similar running data for AMD CPUs but assuming comparable power per socket, but with lower up front cost, you will swing the balance slightly more towards power costs, but power costs still wont negate the up front cost. Only if you run the system for many years after it could/should be replaced, energy will dominate.

GDB
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Joined: 15 Nov 11
Posts: 282
ID: 119185
Credit: 3,575,539,742
RAC: 2,278,220
Discovered 2 mega primesFound 1 prime in the 2022 Tour de Primes321 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (13,480,830)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,837,403)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,600,055)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,659,159)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (18,476,504)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,468,468)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (21,647,423)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,839,538)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,688,853)TRP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,570,052)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,099,498)321 Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,834,160)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,647,915)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,373,349)PPS Sieve Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (502,046,632)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,080,038)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,803,337)AP 26/27 Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (200,108,285)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (370,054,410)WW Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (500,196,000)PSA Double Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000,000 credits (1,863,027,834)
Message 95204 - Posted: 22 May 2016 | 14:41:18 UTC - in response to Message 95202.

I don't know your location. So, I don't know if airconditioning costs need to be accounted for. Most data centers use 30% of their energy for cooling. If you have airconditioning, you probably should increase your energy costs by 10-30% to account for cooling needs.

mackerelProject donor
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Joined: 2 Oct 08
Posts: 2590
ID: 29980
Credit: 560,531,200
RAC: 224,700
Discovered 6 mega primesEliminated 1 conjecture "k"Found 3 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 5 primes in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 6 primes in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 5 primes in the 2021 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2022 Tour de Primes321 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,736,922)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,903,451)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,207,880)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,714,227)PPS LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (119,960,737)PSP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (16,676,406)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,019,367)SR5 LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (26,030,253)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,361,220)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (34,130)TRP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (36,237,439)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,171,820)321 Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,236,219)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,383,853)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,626,419)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (76,969,144)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,293,882)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,012,757)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (27,813,588)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (90,898,231)WW Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (43,304,000)PSA Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,939,755)
Message 95207 - Posted: 22 May 2016 | 15:16:20 UTC - in response to Message 95204.

That would be a contributor. Aircon isn't common here and I turn off crunchers if it gets too hot. I might have above average number of systems, but datacentre level I'm not!

Profile mikey
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Joined: 17 Mar 09
Posts: 1447
ID: 37043
Credit: 592,091,880
RAC: 251
Discovered 1 mega prime321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,066,244)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,074,615)ESP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,243,517)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,142,353)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,293,199)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,232,103)SoB LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,934,612)SR5 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,071,823)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,780,752)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,681,647)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,014,811)321 Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (23,770,672)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (944,431)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,813,253)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (379,578,052)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,446,797)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (33,880,340)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (67,579,656)WW Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,092,000)PSA Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,457,430)
Message 95230 - Posted: 23 May 2016 | 11:31:33 UTC - in response to Message 95207.

That would be a contributor. Aircon isn't common here and I turn off crunchers if it gets too hot. I might have above average number of systems, but datacentre level I'm not!


I have more than the average number of pc's too, I have 13 running right now, and do use the whole house aircon system, I live in the US, but due to the other 'things' running on my pc's it's still hot in my basement! Yesterday it was in the upper 50'sF outside but in the upper 80's in my basement, in the Summer it's usually in the low 90's and once it hit 100.4F in my basement!! Due to the design of my basement the airflow is HORRIBLE and other than cutting holes in the solid concrete wall there is nothing I can do about it.

The other 'things' I have hooked up are some asic miners that I use to generate Bitcoins, that I then donate thru the Boinc Project Bitcoin Utopia, to help keep other Boinc Projects running. Each one of those is water cooled, sealed systems, but still puts out heat in the 105F range when running. Right now I have 4 of them running, each requiring it's own 750 or 850 watt psu. Each miner is plugged into it's own pc that also crunches cpu units, and in a couple of cases gpu units too. My electric bill is about double my neighbors, who has a similar house and household size, so I kind of know how much I spend on my electricity each month for my pc's. The costs have held pretty steady for the past 5 years as I replace hardware only as it breaks, or in a couple of cases to sell some older pc's to buy newer pc's.

NeoMetal*
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Joined: 25 Mar 11
Posts: 418
ID: 92179
Credit: 1,747,428,303
RAC: 0
Eliminated 1 conjecture "k"Found 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de Primes321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,698,294)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,655,866)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,198,062)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,817,032)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,016,096)PSP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,891,779)SoB LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,111,741)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,278,494)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,457,856)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,714,186)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,726,778)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,094,130)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,628,594)PPS Sieve Double Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000,000 credits (1,040,865,445)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,235,150)TRP Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,376,844)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,615,539)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (427,593,017)PSA Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (125,462,363)
Message 95258 - Posted: 24 May 2016 | 8:03:10 UTC

Analyzing the newly leaked die shot:
https://semiaccurate.com/2016/05/22/38688/
And one of the links there go to analyzing the new Linux kernal code for Zen. There's also a more detailed block diagram of the CPU at the link.
http://dresdenboy.blogspot.com/2016/02/new-amd-zen-core-details-emerged.html


____________
Largest Primes to Date:
As Double Checker: SR5 109208*5^1816285+1 Dgts-1,269,534
As Initial Finder: SR5 243944*5^1258576-1 Dgts-879,713


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Joined: 2 Oct 08
Posts: 2590
ID: 29980
Credit: 560,531,200
RAC: 224,700
Discovered 6 mega primesEliminated 1 conjecture "k"Found 3 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 5 primes in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 6 primes in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 5 primes in the 2021 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2022 Tour de Primes321 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,736,922)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,903,451)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,207,880)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,714,227)PPS LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (119,960,737)PSP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (16,676,406)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,019,367)SR5 LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (26,030,253)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,361,220)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (34,130)TRP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (36,237,439)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,171,820)321 Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,236,219)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,383,853)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,626,419)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (76,969,144)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,293,882)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,012,757)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (27,813,588)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (90,898,231)WW Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (43,304,000)PSA Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,939,755)
Message 95259 - Posted: 24 May 2016 | 8:32:11 UTC - in response to Message 95258.

That 2nd link matches what wccf wrote previously, looking like Zen will still have half the FPU per core relative to Haswell, unless they have some magic tricks on throughput.

NeoMetal*
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Joined: 25 Mar 11
Posts: 418
ID: 92179
Credit: 1,747,428,303
RAC: 0
Eliminated 1 conjecture "k"Found 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de Primes321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,698,294)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,655,866)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,198,062)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,817,032)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,016,096)PSP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,891,779)SoB LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,111,741)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,278,494)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,457,856)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,714,186)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,726,778)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,094,130)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,628,594)PPS Sieve Double Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000,000 credits (1,040,865,445)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,235,150)TRP Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,376,844)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,615,539)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (427,593,017)PSA Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (125,462,363)
Message 95261 - Posted: 24 May 2016 | 11:59:43 UTC - in response to Message 95259.

That 2nd link matches what wccf wrote previously, looking like Zen will still have half the FPU per core relative to Haswell, unless they have some magic tricks on throughput.

FPU should be similar to Intel. It's AVX that may be slower. It depends. I read some conflicting info. We'll see in a few months.

Haswell has 8 execution ports (Broadwell has 8 too, same for regular Skylake), but they are more powerful. So my guess is that it is roughly equivalent. The main difference is that Haswell's vector ports are 256 bit, and that they can execute a FMA with only a single pipe.

If you are interested, you can look at a similar diagram for Haswell at http://www.realworldtech.com/haswell-cpu/4/ for the non-memory parts (ports 0, 1, 5, 6) and http://www.realworldtech.com/haswell-cpu/5/ for the memory parts (ports 2, 3, 4, 7).

The main difference is that Intel seems optimized for memory instructions with 2 load/store and 2 specialized store ports, while Zen seems to only have 2 load/store pipes (in many Scientific codes you want to run two loads and one store per cycle, which Haswell can easily do) -but I think this is less important than that Zen seems to have only 128bit vector units-.

Both have 4 ALUs, that can do regular integer instructions, but on Intel the floating-point stuff shares execution ports with the integer ALUs. This is not the case for Zen according to the diagram, and might be an advantage for code that does a lot of integer and floating-point computation at once, but I can't really think of anything that would load the CPU like that and still let it run at full steam.

tl;dr if this diagram is correct, it seems they are roughly equivalent -for most non-scientific tasks-, and we'll have to wait for benchmarks.

EDIT: It seems from the GCC machine description that it supports 256-bit floating point FMA with the same latency as 128-bit floating point. So the per core throughput on FP should be roughly the same as for Intel.



It is an older block diagram so who knows which is correct (maybe neither).

To compare is this link to the Haswell Execution Units description from quote above.
http://www.realworldtech.com/haswell-cpu/4/


____________
Largest Primes to Date:
As Double Checker: SR5 109208*5^1816285+1 Dgts-1,269,534
As Initial Finder: SR5 243944*5^1258576-1 Dgts-879,713


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Credit: 560,531,200
RAC: 224,700
Discovered 6 mega primesEliminated 1 conjecture "k"Found 3 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 5 primes in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 6 primes in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 5 primes in the 2021 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2022 Tour de Primes321 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,736,922)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,903,451)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,207,880)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,714,227)PPS LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (119,960,737)PSP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (16,676,406)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,019,367)SR5 LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (26,030,253)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,361,220)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (34,130)TRP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (36,237,439)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,171,820)321 Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,236,219)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,383,853)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,626,419)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (76,969,144)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,293,882)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,012,757)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (27,813,588)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (90,898,231)WW Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (43,304,000)PSA Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,939,755)
Message 95262 - Posted: 24 May 2016 | 12:16:36 UTC - in response to Message 95261.

Haswell has two 256-bit FMA units, whereas Zen is speculated to have two 128-bit FMA units. So unless they do things very differently, expect roughly a factor of two throughput difference between them. Zen's level of performance would still be massively improved compared to their current CPUs, but that is a low place to start with.

Message boards : General discussion : AMD's Zen CPU To Be Close To Skylake Performance

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