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Message boards : Sieving : Effects of sieving on GFN ranges we're now testing on BOINC

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JimBProject donor
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Discovered 1 mega prime321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,009,915)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,031,868)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,064,082)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,038,750)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,000,461)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,674,374)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (42,604,648)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,829,173)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,851,612)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,400,010)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,046,412)321 Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,057,614)Cullen/Woodall Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,209,718)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,005,451)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (52,049,707)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,341,676)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,070,804)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,742,251)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,005,964)WW (retired) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,688,000)PSA Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (728,547,693)
Message 89139 - Posted: 17 Oct 2015 | 11:49:12 UTC
Last modified: 17 Oct 2015 | 11:54:45 UTC

As of when I'm writing this, we're now crunching GFN n=15 (32768), GFN n=16 (65536), GFN n=17 (131072) low and mega, n=21 (2097152) and n=22 (4194304). By the way, in case it's not clear, 2^15=32768, 2^16=65536, etc. n=16 and higher are still worthy of more sieving. Just to make it clear, I thought I'd explain how all that works.

Every time I process a GFN sieving range, my program creates an up-to-date sieve file with all factors applied to it. In other words, every candidate that had a factor has already been removed from the sieve file. That sieve file is used to generate work in BOINC. For GFN n values where we're still sieving, BOINC work is always generated immediately before being loaded, so the very latest sieve file is used. All known factors have already been applied.

The program that processes factor files "knows" what ranges have been loaded into BOINC. If it enounters a new factor for a loaded candidate, it interacts with the server to remove that candidate from consideration. There are several scenarios:

If the candidate has not been turned into a workunit, it's completely deleted from the system. The effect is exactly the same as if it had been previously removed by sieving.

If a workunit exists but no task has been sent out to a client, the workunit is canceled. The tasks are set to "not needed" and the workunit is set to be deleted normally.

If there are both sent and unsent tasks, the unsent one is cancelled and the workunit is adjusted so that no more tasks will be created. The workunit is set to validate with a single task (so that the user who has the task will get credit for it).

If the workunit is completed and validated, no change takes place.

The gist of this is that any new sieving will affect already-loaded work. That's why all 32768 work up to the OCL3 b-limit has already been loaded. Anything sieved out in future will be removed and no genefer testing will take place, unless it's already in progress at that time. I'll still be doing GFN sieving and I encourage others to do the same.

Profile Rafael
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Discovered 2 mega primesFound 1 prime in the 2023 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2023 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2023 Tour de Primes Mountain StageFound 1 mega prime  in the 2023 Tour de Primes Mountain Stage321 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,008,611)Cullen LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,005,009)ESP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,041,747)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,000,820)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,143,381)PSP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,049,767)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (49,484,958)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,003,746)SGS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,002,215)TRP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,011,903)Woodall LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,076,850)321 Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,033,828)Cullen/Woodall Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,963,208)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,037,204)PPS Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,305,147)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,000,053)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,030,160)AP 26/27 Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,015,953)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (85,796,469)WW (retired) Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,712,000)PSA Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (170,761,999)
Message 89758 - Posted: 16 Nov 2015 | 1:09:37 UTC

So, I was doing some sieving a few questions came to my mind when seeing the "GFN Sieve for k^(insert gfn range here) +1 [k == 2 to 100.000.000]"

1- For something like GFN 16, we already searched k< 2.4M.... so what's the point of sieving 2<k<2.4M? Wouldn't that be a waste of computational power / wouldn't the program go faster if it didn't have to test those candidates?

2- Likewise, when looking at n=22, k = 100M seems like a rather.... utopic future, to say the least. Even if we were to consider the OCl 2 limit, it's still around 23M. Given the very slow pace of WR tasks, wouldn't it be faster to just ignore everything above OCL3 for (which still would take WAY longer to reach) and focus on smaller K? And if we ever get closer to OCL 2, then we can just re-sieve the same ranges for higher K?

3- Also, that thing about "(b)^(n) is the same as (b^2)^(n/2)" and "you'll always want to crunch the number at the lowest n possible", does it apply / has en equivalent for the sieve program?

Profile Michael GoetzProject donor
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The "Shut up already!" badge:  This loud mouth has mansplained on the forums over 10 thousand times!  Sheesh!!!Discovered the World's First GFN-19 prime!!!Discovered 2 mega primesFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2021 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2022 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2022 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2022 Tour de Primes Mountain StageFound 1 prime in the 2023 Tour de Primes321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,638,389)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,513,946)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,150,009)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,094,541)PPS LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (24,049,916)PSP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,203,327)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (36,067,618)SR5 LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,062,622)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,361,962)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,308,522)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,390,624)321 Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,061,196)Cullen/Woodall Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (30,686,990)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,059,304)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,888,492)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (17,832,347)GFN Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (108,153,926)WW (retired) Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (88,580,000)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,445,029)
Message 89759 - Posted: 16 Nov 2015 | 1:17:40 UTC

The answer to 1 and 2 is that with this sieve, the range of b that is sieved doesn't matter. The sieve runs the same speed whether we're sieving 10<b<20 or 2<b<100,000,000. So we sieve the full range even if we don't expect to ever need it, because it comes for free.
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JimBProject donor
Honorary cruncher
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Joined: 4 Aug 11
Posts: 920
ID: 107307
Credit: 989,270,184
RAC: 150,909
Discovered 1 mega prime321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,009,915)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,031,868)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,064,082)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,038,750)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,000,461)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,674,374)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (42,604,648)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,829,173)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,851,612)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,400,010)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,046,412)321 Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,057,614)Cullen/Woodall Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,209,718)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,005,451)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (52,049,707)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,341,676)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,070,804)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,742,251)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,005,964)WW (retired) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,688,000)PSA Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (728,547,693)
Message 89760 - Posted: 16 Nov 2015 | 3:34:11 UTC - in response to Message 89758.

3- Also, that thing about "(b)^(n) is the same as (b^2)^(n/2)" and "you'll always want to crunch the number at the lowest n possible", does it apply / has en equivalent for the sieve program?

No, there's nothing like that for the sieve program. It would only slow things down. GFN sieving is dat-less: there's no sieve file to work from. Every factor found is reported even though more than half of them are for candidates already removed from the sieve. See the GFN Sieve Stats and note the difference between Factors Found and Removed from Sieve. Every GPU sieve we have works like that. While it's not in the statistics, about 27% of PPR12M factors result in new removals from the sieve.

Any processing for equivalences is done by me aferwards. There are all kinds of tests and procedures run on sieving output that you don't see.

Message boards : Sieving : Effects of sieving on GFN ranges we're now testing on BOINC

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