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Message boards : Number crunching : Let's Keep Politics & Religion Out Of Challenges

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NeoMetal*
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Eliminated 1 conjecture "k"Found 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de Primes321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,698,294)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,655,866)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,198,062)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,817,032)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,016,096)PSP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,891,779)SoB LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,111,741)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,278,494)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,457,856)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,714,186)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,726,778)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,094,130)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,628,594)PPS Sieve Double Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000,000 credits (1,040,865,445)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,235,150)TRP Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,376,844)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,615,539)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (427,593,017)PSA Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (125,462,363)
Message 87726 - Posted: 7 Sep 2015 | 0:48:15 UTC

I started this thread for people to voice their opinions about this freely so as not to piss off some people in the actual challenge thread of which I and others have commented on there.

So opinion away.


____________
Largest Primes to Date:
As Double Checker: SR5 109208*5^1816285+1 Dgts-1,269,534
As Initial Finder: SR5 243944*5^1258576-1 Dgts-879,713


Profile Michael GoetzProject donor
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The "Shut up already!" badge:  This loud mouth has mansplained on the forums over 10 thousand times!  Sheesh!!!Discovered the World's First GFN-19 prime!!!Discovered 1 mega primeFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de Primes321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,063,182)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,005,249)ESP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,001,789)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,135,461)PPS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,768,012)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,632,269)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (34,034,802)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,166,794)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,011,264)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,737,347)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,195,123)321 Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,801,548)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,170,256)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,059,304)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,110,788)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,090,096)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (64,584,904)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,135,447)
Message 87729 - Posted: 7 Sep 2015 | 0:55:32 UTC - in response to Message 87726.

Great idea, thanks. If you think this might be better in the "General Discussion" topic, I'll move it there for you. That's your call, NeoMetal*.
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Christopher Siegert
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321 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,041,657)Cullen LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,366,558)PPS LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,177,547)PSP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,521,444)SoB LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,751,070)SR5 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,100,031)SGS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,014,953)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,647,371)Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,479,507)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (41,181)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (29,702,366)TRP Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (206,682)GFN Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,960,980)
Message 87731 - Posted: 7 Sep 2015 | 2:34:02 UTC

"Queen" Elizabeth II apparently missed the memo. I will restate it here:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States.


Exactly what has Elizabeth accomplished in terms of math or computer science? Has she discovered even one prime number in her absurdly privileged life? What is her relevance to PrimeGrid? What possible motivation is there to celebrate her *undeserved* reign? She has lived a long life, because she has enjoyed privileged access to health care, quality food, water, shelter, clothing, security, etc. unlike so many other people in this world that suffered under brutal British imperial rule.

I just don't get it. I'd rather see a challenge not have a theme at all than to engage in royalty worship.

NeoMetal*
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Eliminated 1 conjecture "k"Found 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de Primes321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,698,294)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,655,866)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,198,062)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,817,032)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,016,096)PSP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,891,779)SoB LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,111,741)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,278,494)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,457,856)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,714,186)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,726,778)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,094,130)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,628,594)PPS Sieve Double Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000,000 credits (1,040,865,445)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,235,150)TRP Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,376,844)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,615,539)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (427,593,017)PSA Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (125,462,363)
Message 87732 - Posted: 7 Sep 2015 | 3:03:23 UTC - in response to Message 87729.

Great idea, thanks. If you think this might be better in the "General Discussion" topic, I'll move it there for you. That's your call, NeoMetal*.

I'll leave that part up to you. If you feel it's more appropriate there then fine, although I think this thread should tie in to the upcoming naming, subprojects & discussions thread for 2016 challenges.


____________
Largest Primes to Date:
As Double Checker: SR5 109208*5^1816285+1 Dgts-1,269,534
As Initial Finder: SR5 243944*5^1258576-1 Dgts-879,713


Profile NortechProject donor
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Discovered 2 mega primes321 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,713,915)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (124,405)ESP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (322,263)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,854,054)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (16,758,756)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (138,801)SoB LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (183,732)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (15,815,324)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,494,356)TRP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,430,557)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (231,763)321 Sieve Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (35,173)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (107,310)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (104,850)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (23,580,159)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (238,178)TRP Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (107,700)AP 26/27 Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,540,383)GFN Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (17,231,760)PSA Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (76,338,892)
Message 87741 - Posted: 7 Sep 2015 | 7:31:21 UTC

I'm not familiar with the concept of an “American libertarian” and why one would have such a problem with monarchs in other countries. This point of view is certainly not unanimous amongst PrimeGrid volunteers.
If anyone feels the need to quit if their demands to have the challenge renamed aren't immediately met, then go right ahead. Don't let the door hit you on the way out...

Profile Michael GoetzProject donor
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The "Shut up already!" badge:  This loud mouth has mansplained on the forums over 10 thousand times!  Sheesh!!!Discovered the World's First GFN-19 prime!!!Discovered 1 mega primeFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de Primes321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,063,182)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,005,249)ESP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,001,789)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,135,461)PPS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,768,012)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,632,269)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (34,034,802)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,166,794)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,011,264)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,737,347)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,195,123)321 Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,801,548)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,170,256)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,059,304)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,110,788)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,090,096)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (64,584,904)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,135,447)
Message 87745 - Posted: 7 Sep 2015 | 12:27:09 UTC - in response to Message 87741.

If anyone feels the need to quit if their demands to have the challenge renamed aren't immediately met, then go right ahead. Don't let the door hit you on the way out...


For the record, that is one user's point of view, and definitely not PrimeGrid's. Please stay!
____________
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My lucky number is 75898524288+1

Usucapio LibertatisProject donor
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Discovered 1 mega prime2012 Tour de Primes highest prime scoreFound 2 primes in the 2018 Tour de Primes321 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (13,545,653)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,622,415)ESP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,191,926)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,521,709)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (9,379,225)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,061,297)SoB LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,923,258)SR5 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,285,621)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,294,236)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,527,307)Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,295,630)321 Sieve Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,479,162)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,449,019)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,388,253)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (337,847,415)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,072,601)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,441,257)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,324,161)GFN Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (44,249,129)PSA Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (79,952,619)
Message 87748 - Posted: 7 Sep 2015 | 12:59:25 UTC - in response to Message 87745.

On September 10 2015, Queen Elizabeth II will complete 23227 days on her role.

23227 is a prime number. This is just a factoid, but keep in mind that it is also the largest prime number corresponding to the number of days someone has been the King/Queen of the UK.

That's not much to celebrate, but it might be just enough to keep the challenge name without any political implications.

____________
676754^262144+1 is prime

Iain BethuneProject donor
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321 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (597,175)Cullen LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,355,381)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,048,594)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,564,412)PPS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,025,115)PSP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (28,367,849)SoB LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (16,215,329)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,189,992)SGS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,244,067)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,169,405)Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,070,956)321 Sieve Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (20,003)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (200,371)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,645,025)PPS Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,536,532)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,017,144)TRP Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (554,946)AP 26/27 Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,577,848)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (97,047,976)PSA Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,606,694)
Message 87749 - Posted: 7 Sep 2015 | 13:07:37 UTC
Last modified: 7 Sep 2015 | 14:17:13 UTC

I posted in the original thread, linked here http://www.primegrid.com/forum_thread.php?id=6414&nowrap=true#87747.

To continue with my thoughts on the topic of this thread... my view is the challenges titles celebrate the a diversity of topics that bring colour to the human experience, and not all of those will appeal particularly to me. I am quite liberal so I don't get easily offended by other people having beliefs that are opposed to mine. For example, I would find challenges named after American holidays (Labor Day, Independence Day) to be perfectly acceptable, even if I don't particular have any affinity for those celebrations. Likewise foreign festivals like the Chinese New Year, or Cinco De Mayo... I think it's worth being in mind (as a liberal!) that we shouldn't impose our own view of the world on everyone else, so while the celebration of the 'Reign Record' might be controversial to republicans, equally a Halloween challenge might upset some conservative Christians etc...

So having said all that, I'd like to think that as a tolerant community of volunteers with a common interest in mathematics that if a particular challenge title was offensive to a subset of community (even 1?) if that opinion was expressed during the planning phase of the upcoming year's challenges that we could take it into account. Making a change one of two days before would likely be counter-productive to the project since the challenge is already advertised e.g. on BOINCStats, Twitter etc. and changing the name could be confusing. Enough that I suspect we'd lose more users that way than the one of two would opt out due to the name of the challenge.

So my suggestion is let's keep it as is for the upcoming Cullen LLR challenge and those of you who are concerned please try and engage in the design of next year's challenge programme. Probably scientific/mathematical/astronomical occasions do give good names, but it's actually quite hard to come up with them, and we could use help with suggestions!

- Iain
____________
Twitter: IainBethune
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3073428256125*2^1290000-1 is Prime!

Yves Gallot
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Message 87754 - Posted: 7 Sep 2015 | 14:53:17 UTC

For a Frenchman, a monarch challenge is unacceptable.

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights:
Article 1. All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.

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321 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,043,076)Cullen LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,256,286)ESP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,075,118)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,935,733)PPS LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (54,952,284)PSP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,037,823)SoB LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,053,795)SR5 LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,710,959)SGS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,026,927)TRP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (14,204,693)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,055,169)321 Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (200,220)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,710,149)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,061,184)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (57,182,910)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,251,279)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,572,416)AP 26/27 Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (543,507)GFN Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (21,199,917)PSA Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (248,258,813)
Message 87755 - Posted: 7 Sep 2015 | 14:59:40 UTC - in response to Message 87745.

If anyone feels the need to quit if their demands to have the challenge renamed aren't immediately met, then go right ahead. Don't let the door hit you on the way out...


For the record, that is one user's point of view, and definitely not PrimeGrid's. Please stay!

And another's opinion - TheDawgz are ever so happy when those who demand "change it to my way or I'm leaving" do just that.
____________
There's someone in our head but it's not us.

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321 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (48,835)Cullen LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (98,851)ESP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (13,226)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (35,236)PPS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,791,483)SoB LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (237,390)SR5 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (16,010)TRP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (71,060)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (109,455)PSA Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,614,290)
Message 87756 - Posted: 7 Sep 2015 | 15:31:01 UTC

I am surprised (mostly in a positive way) my comment in the other thread started such a vivid discussion.

Personally, I am not really offended by the name. Records are quite "fun" in themselves, even records within a system (monarchy) which in my opinion ought to be abolished eventually.

One monarch serving for a long period is neither better nor worse than many consecutive monarchs serving for short periods.

Still I could not help expressing my anti-monarchist view there. Glad to hear that other people have also thought about the justice of having a head of state whose only legitimacy is his (or her) descent.

/JeppeSN

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321 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,009,885)Cullen LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,440,123)ESP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,008,511)PPS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,389,215)PSP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,080,442)SoB LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,143,918)SR5 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,853,162)SGS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,344,963)TRP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,140,037)Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,130,355)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,038,617)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (36,643,348)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,000,717)TRP Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,298,244)GFN Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (17,332,530)PSA Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,125,451)
Message 87766 - Posted: 7 Sep 2015 | 20:52:35 UTC

This post is going to contain my personal opinion. I am also not going to quote specific posts. If you think this pertains to you or your posts, feel free to assume it is or isn’t.
If you don’t want to read the whole post (please do read it, it’s much more nuanced), skip to the end for de TLDR

Participant feedback
I always appreciate feedback from you guys, even when my opinion differs from yours. Appreciating it however does not mean I will do what you ask, just that I will take it under serious consideration if it’s in the general vicinity of reasonable feedback. “I want a GFN challenge in the middle of summer on the northern hemisphere!” wouldn’t be a good example, “I want two GFN challenges this year!” would be a good enough example. Although I really would appreciate it if you could give some sort of explanation for the feedback you give.
I also feel that you should always be able to give feedback, but that you also have to take timing in to consideration for expected results of said feedback. A couple of days before the challenge, right after the announcement has gone out the door, I’m not going to change the theme or project unless there’s a bloody good reason.

Had you raised your concerns around the time when I first suggested (October 20th, last year) the theme, I would have been a lot more open to it.

PrimeGrid and Politics & Religion
I whole heartedly agree PrimeGrid as an organization should not promote any religion or political view. Or nationality, country, gender, sexual preference, skin color or whatever. The only thing PrimeGrid should promote is science and more specifically the science of prime numbers. However, recognizing the existence of an event or person is not the same as endorsing it.

Challenge themes
As prime related themes are hard to come by and definitely don’t fall in a nicely spread pattern across the year, I like to get a bit creative and just find interesting factoids/events to match a good timeframe for the challenges. Since the starting days astronomical events have been a staple, and remain so. Just like the Chinese New Year.
However as I stated above, I don’t think PrimeGrid should favor any group over another when choosing themes. Therefore, when I took over the challenge coordination I started introducing random things from around the world. Starting with what is most familiar to me (yes that is cultural bias and favoring certain groups), with themes like Low Country Festivities in 2013 and Saint Nicholas’ challenge in 2014. These two themes relate to important yearly cultural happenings where I live, just like other challenges have referred to American (Thanksgiving), Mexican (Cinco de Mayo) and international (Animal day, Father’s day, Valentine’s Day) traditions. Queen Elizabeth’s record is, to me, just a typically British celebration.

Do I care for (any particular) monarchy or religion?
I think that’s beside the point. I have very strong ‘live and let live’ attitude towards pretty much everything and that's all I'm going to say about that here.

The theme for this challenge
Am I going to change it? No.
Why not? Because I will offend people either way.
And also, because I don’t respond well to threats/bullying.
I will however change the opening post to change “celebrate” into some or other sentence with “in recognition of” or something along those lines. That way we objectively observe that a certain milestone has been passed, without assigning any value to it.

TLDR
Feedback is always welcome; Not going to change the theme;

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Message 87779 - Posted: 8 Sep 2015 | 9:09:00 UTC

For a Frenchman, a monarch challenge is unacceptable.

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights:
Article 1. All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.


Yves Gallot has got it right.

Why on earth any of you think it's remotely acceptable to celebrate or mention a monarch (especially the imperial British) as a theme for a prime-searching challenge is beyond me.

I'm not trying to threaten or bully anybody. I'm simply responding to something offensive by leaving if it's not changed. This aggravates me, because I like searching for primes, and it's a nice hobby. I didn't think my experience here would get needlessly ruined in such a fashion.

change it to my way or I'm leaving


I actually never tried to dictate what the name of the challenge should be. Rather, I'm simply stating that if an offensive name/concept is going to be used, that I will be leaving. I'm just giving people this information; they can do with it what they want. If you want to ignore it, that's obviously up to you. It's your website, not mine. Likewise, my computers and their CPU cycles are mine, not yours.

Avoiding political/religious figures/themes is all I'm requesting. That leaves quite a wide variety of infinite possibilities... any of which would be OK with me.

I'm not familiar with the concept of an “American libertarian” and why one would have such a problem with monarchs in other countries.


I'm an American citizen. Americans revolted against the British monarch in 1776 (with the help of the French) and established a democracy. Politically, I'm a libertarian, so I cherish human liberty and self-rule. Monarchy is kind of a polar opposite view...

To me, monarchs anywhere represent a form of blatant injustice.

"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly." - Martin Luther King Jr.

As for telling me that I should have said something a year ago in some other thread, that's a cop out. I didn't know that there was such a thread or that such a thing would be expected of me (or others concerned about offensive names for challenges). Frankly, I didn't think the operators of PrimeGrid would be so unwise to begin with. Queen Elizabeth II?! Seriously?! SHE is more important than those of us who actually crunch numbers here?!

I just don't get it. It certainly is "random", but it's unfortunately randomly offensive.

If it's not changed, I'm gone. That is simply a fact, not a "threat". I'm not out to harm PrimeGrid or anybody here. Rather, I don't want to get harmed/offended when coming here. I am confused how my own defensive action is getting regarded as a threat or bullying tactic.

interesting factoids/events to match a good timeframe for the challenges


On September 11th, 2001, nearly 3000 people died in a terrorist attack on the world trade centers in New York City. Citizens of over 90 countries lost their lives in that attack. Commemorating the victims of terrorism (in any country) makes more sense to me than recognizing a monarch for living a long life. Just an idea...

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Message 87780 - Posted: 8 Sep 2015 | 10:55:43 UTC - in response to Message 87779.

I am very actively involved in astronomy and astrophotography. If there is interest, I can come up with suggested themes for each of the twelve months.

For example, July in honour of Apollo 11 and the lunar landing ("One small step for man, one giant leap for mankind") on July 20, 1969. We already have the Perseids (Aug) and the solstices (June/December) as existing challenges.

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Discovered the World's First base 116 Generalized Cullen prime!!!Discovered 13 mega primesEliminated 7 conjecture "k"sDiscovered 1 Sophie Germain pairDiscovered 1 Fermat divisor2012 Tour de Primes highest prime count2012 Tour de Primes most Mountain Stage primes2015 Tour de Primes highest prime count2016 Tour de Primes highest prime countFound 23 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2018 Tour de Primes Mountain Stage2019 Tour de Primes highest prime countFound 22 primes in the 2019 Tour de Primes321 LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (100,829,118)Cullen LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (103,870,990)ESP LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (103,603,483)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (108,461,080)PPS LLR Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (339,247,040)PSP LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (108,003,110)SoB LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (135,747,083)SR5 LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (173,984,476)SGS LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (160,071,878)TPS LLR (retired) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (235,439)TRP LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (121,443,822)Woodall LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (101,447,725)321 Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (203,510,966)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (83,794,448)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (285,139,652)PPS Sieve Double Ruby: Earned 2,000,000,000 credits (2,107,637,726)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (203,523,358)TRP Sieve (suspended) Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (201,489,157)AP 26/27 Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (119,562,131)GFN Double Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000,000 credits (1,169,153,446)PSA Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (259,058,048)
Message 87783 - Posted: 8 Sep 2015 | 12:03:41 UTC - in response to Message 87779.
Last modified: 8 Sep 2015 | 12:05:10 UTC

I have avoided this entire conversation over the weekend because I detest these sorts of political discussions overall and have been very happy that they almost never occur at PrimeGrid in general. However, two of the things that you have said here I feel the need to reply to.

First (ADMIN HAT ON),


As for telling me that I should have said something a year ago in some other thread, that's a cop out. I didn't know that there was such a thread or that such a thing would be expected of me (or others concerned about offensive names for challenges). Frankly, I didn't think the operators of PrimeGrid would be so unwise to begin with.


No, this is NOT a cop out. PrimeGrid challenges are announced with names in the news thread, which goes out over the PG news feed. A second thread (with fuller description) is also always posted in the number crunching section of the forum. It is also the case the news thread posting ALWAYS includes a link to the fuller description in the number crunching thread. As is the case for ALL BOINC PROJECTS, the news thread and forums are the primary method through which information is and can be conveyed. It is perfectly legitimate for any BOINC project to expect that objections to something like a challenge name would be raised somewhat earlier than a couple of days prior to that challenge when said challenge was clearly posted for a year.

In your specific case, your suggestion that this is a cop out is particularly disingenuous given that you have posted a number of times at PG over the last year including multiple posts in news threads (not including any of your posts of the last few days).




Second (ADMIN HAT OFF),

interesting factoids/events to match a good timeframe for the challenges


On September 11th, 2001, nearly 3000 people died in a terrorist attack on the world trade centers in New York City. Citizens of over 90 countries lost their lives in that attack. Commemorating the victims of terrorism (in any country) makes more sense to me than recognizing a monarch for living a long life. Just an idea...


Equating the record-long reign of the current British monarch (who is and has been essentially a figure head with no real political power) with the worst terrorist attack in US history is at best ridiculous hyperbole. I imagine that many citizens of the UK would find this remark to be extremely offensive. I know that, even as a native-born US citizen (and a direct descendant of at least four revolutionary war soldiers--2 militia, 2 continental line), I do.

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Message 87834 - Posted: 9 Sep 2015 | 16:51:16 UTC
Last modified: 9 Sep 2015 | 17:34:31 UTC

We are receiving news just in from Buckingham Palace.

Christopher: you are being summoned to Her Majesty's quarters with most haste.

You will be presented with a chessboard numbered 1~64 & a bowl of rice. For every chessboard square x, you must place Tree function (x) number grains of rice on that square. You may leave once you are complete.

Meanwhile: let the challenge commence!

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Message 87839 - Posted: 9 Sep 2015 | 17:30:07 UTC

In your specific case, your suggestion that this is a cop out is particularly disingenuous given that you have posted a number of times at PG over the last year including multiple posts in news threads (not including any of your posts of the last few days).


Suffice it to say, over the years, I never noticed an offensive name for a challenge theme, and I made an assumption about future names of challenges. I never actually looked at the names of future challenges, so I didn't know that this one would be pro-monarchy until it was placed on the front page.

Again, you can obviously do what you want with your own website. Likewise, I can obviously do what I want with my own computers. All I ever said is that I will leave if it's not changed. I don't care how you feel about my stance. I'm just supplying you with this information.

Equating the record-long reign of the current British monarch (who is and has been essentially a figure head with no real political power) with the worst terrorist attack in US history is at best ridiculous hyperbole.


In no way was I equating these two. I have no idea how you got that in your head. I didn't suggest a celebration of the terrorist attacks. I suggested a commemoration of the nearly 3000 victims just as a possible alternative. Again, there are an infinite number of possible alternatives to royalty worship.

To be more blunt, PrimeGrid might as well have a "Democracy Sucks and Egalitarianism Is For The Birds" challenge. That is why I will be leaving if nothing is changed. I don't care that there was some forum where you think people like me should have brought this up a year ago. I owe you nothing, so if you're going to run a disrespectful challenge with an anti-democracy theme, I'm done.

"the current British monarch (who is and has been essentially a figure head with no real political power)"

Ha! Elizabeth is socially influential and worth something like $500,000,000. She must have worked real hard for that wealth and influence... How did that wealth come to be? Where did it come from? Is there a dark history to the existence of that wealth? Hmmm...?

I imagine that many citizens of the UK would find this remark to be extremely offensive.


They probably would, if it were true, but there was no such equation made by me. What I find offensive is that the long life of a monarch is somehow more important than the deaths of nearly 3000 victims of terrorism. If you won't stick to math/science, at least have some common political/moral sense.

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Message 87841 - Posted: 9 Sep 2015 | 18:17:48 UTC - in response to Message 87839.

To be more blunt, PrimeGrid might as well have a "Democracy Sucks and Egalitarianism Is For The Birds" challenge. That is why I will be leaving if nothing is changed. I don't care that there was some forum where you think people like me should have brought this up a year ago. I owe you nothing, so if you're going to run a disrespectful challenge with an anti-democracy theme, I'm done.


As incredibly tempting as it is to change the challenge name to "Democracy Sucks and Egalitarianism Is For The Birds", it's Charley's call and he's already told you the name for this challenge is not changing.

All kidding aside, since you're leaving, I want to take this opportunity to sincerely thank you for your contributions and wish you well in your future computing endeavors, wherever they may be.

Good luck and have fun!

P.S. For anyone else who A) is not leaving and B) feels this strongly about challenges names, I strongly encourage you to click on the challenge schedules for the previous years and alert us if there's any themes that you find offensive. We'll keep that in mind for next year.
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Message 87844 - Posted: 9 Sep 2015 | 20:16:25 UTC

@Christopher Siegert - might I suggest a slightly different approach to this. In lieu of completely leaving PG would you consider just a boycott of this particular challenge?

To my knowledge, everyone here does work because they choose to do so and when they decide not to they leave or run other BOINC projects. I am in no way taking or arguing for any side. I was just thinking that not running this particular challenge might be acceptable instead of completely leaving and at the same time you have a forum to voice your opinion for future activity here in PG.

Cheers Rick
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Message 87858 - Posted: 10 Sep 2015 | 8:30:09 UTC

My *personal* opinion is that "Reign Record" is completely benign. The name should stay as Charley has announced. Will it offend some people? Apparently so, but unless we stick with strictly astronomical or mathematical names, that's probably unavoidable no matter what name is chosen. Myself, I'm not particularly keen on "Cinco de Mayo", which is basically a non-holiday celebrated only in bars in Southern California, used as an excuse for idiots to drink too much.

There have been several challenges named after completely random occasions... last year we had a "Shakespeare's Birthday" challenge. So there is precedent for that.

I hope you stay, Christopher, as your contributions have been valued by the community. If you want to sit-out the challenge, we understand, and will welcome you back afterwards.

--Gary

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321 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (511,386)Cullen LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (510,818)ESP LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (580,104)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (564,210)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,086,073)PSP LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (686,232)SoB LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (785,805)SR5 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (616,265)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,095,282)TRP LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (512,571)Woodall LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (673,276)321 Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,006,315)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (944,431)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,813,253)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (333,600,983)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,446,797)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (32,158,022)GFN Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (24,806,170)PSA Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,457,430)
Message 87863 - Posted: 10 Sep 2015 | 10:57:32 UTC - in response to Message 87858.

My *personal* opinion is that "Reign Record" is completely benign. The name should stay as Charley has announced. Will it offend some people? Apparently so, but unless we stick with strictly astronomical or mathematical names, that's probably unavoidable no matter what name is chosen. Myself, I'm not particularly keen on "Cinco de Mayo", which is basically a non-holiday celebrated only in bars in Southern California, used as an excuse for idiots to drink too much.

There have been several challenges named after completely random occasions... last year we had a "Shakespeare's Birthday" challenge. So there is precedent for that.

I hope you stay, Christopher, as your contributions have been valued by the community. If you want to sit-out the challenge, we understand, and will welcome you back afterwards.

--Gary


TOTALLY agree!! I am also an American, and a retired firefighter, and think even thinking of naming a challenge after 9/11 would ALSO violate the theme of this thread! 9/11 was about the political AND religious gains of one part of the world over another part of the World. They tried something, it didn't work, now let America honor her dead and her hero's and let's get back to crunching!!

As for PG I also do not do the challenges, not for ANY political or religious reasons though, but because I have goals I am trying to attain elsewhere, and when my gpu's are here I am doing the PPS-Sieve units.

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Message 87905 - Posted: 11 Sep 2015 | 0:25:50 UTC

While I appreciate the appreciation of my contributions and the request that I stay (and just skip the challenge), I do not wish to willingly associate with any organization that promotes a monarch. Maybe if Elizabeth had found a prime number in her privileged life, I could understand, but she's an irrelevant jerk in my view.

At first, I was just going to skip the challenge, but then I was condescendingly talked down to on top of it by at least one PrimeGrid person and accused of being threatening and bullying (all because I said I would leave if the offensive royalty-worship was not removed). Again, I don't owe certain people anything, and I don't spend my life reading through old PrimeGrid forums about challenge names. I didn't see the offensive name until recently when it was put on the front page. I'm not going to apologize or be talked down to for this. When I am dismissed, I get dismissive.

I will be leaving, though it may take me some time to disconnect all of the computers.

I still fundamentally don't understand the point of naming a challenge over anything potentially upsetting. What's the point? Where is QEII's relevance to math?!

I'm not trying to control PrimeGrid's naming of challenges. I just don't want to get pissed off when coming here, and I don't like being talked down to when I'm a VOLUNTEER contributor voicing his opinion about a challenge that multiple other people also saw an issue with.

I'll go back to my independent search for primes as well as some GIMPS stuff.

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Message 87910 - Posted: 11 Sep 2015 | 6:24:17 UTC - in response to Message 87905.
Last modified: 11 Sep 2015 | 6:32:07 UTC

...

At first, I was just going to skip the challenge, but then I was condescendingly talked down to on top of it by at least one PrimeGrid person and accused of being threatening and bullying (all because I said I would leave if the offensive royalty-worship was not removed).


From the merriam webster dictionary:

Threat
: a statement saying you will be harmed if you do not do what someone wants you to do

: someone or something that could cause trouble, harm, etc.

: the possibility that something bad or harmful could happen

PrimeGrid exists by the grace of its participants. Participants leaving is therfore harmful.
You claim to leave if we do not do what you want.
Therefore you intend to do harm to PrimeGrid if we do not do what you want.
Ergo, you are threatening PrimeGrid.


...
I will be leaving, though it may take me some time to disconnect all of the computers.


Bye.


I still fundamentally don't understand the point of naming a challenge over anything potentially upsetting.

Every topic is potentially upsetting. If I name it after astronomical events, there's going to be people that think that's a load of humbug.
If I name it after solstices, pretty much every religion can throw a fit because it's a reference to pagan rituals.
If I name it after scientist like e.g. Darwin, there's going lots of Americans be seriously offended because they're no goshdarned monkies!
The only way I'm going to most assuredly not offend anyone is naming it after the day it starts. "The Thursday challenge" e.g.

OH wait, that's not true either. Thursday is either named after Jupiter or Thor, therefore I'm endorsing religion and I have named a challenge after religion again.

Well, I can name it the "5th of September, 2015 challenge", right?
Nope, can't do that either! That's western naming of the month and Christian way of counting years. All the Muslims and probably a bunch more people will get seriously offended, because I'm forcing the Christian worldview upon them.


What's the point? Where is QEII's relevance to math?!

It has nothing to do with math, but it has everything to do with a large cultural happening in some part of the world. I was raised with a broad world view, appreciating the cultural diversity around the world. As PrimeGrid is a global initiative, I think it's perfectly valid to embrace that cultural diversity and recognize important events. It just happens that I'm more familiar with the cultural events of the western countries as opposed to say those of Jamaica, Burkina Faso or the Cook Islands. I'm perfectly happy to recognize any major cultural happening around the world, as long as I know about it.


I'm not trying to control PrimeGrid's naming of challenges.

Yes you are. And you are allowed to up to certain point. You were past it, both in time and manner of discussion.

I just don't want to get pissed off when coming here, and I don't like being talked down to when I'm a VOLUNTEER contributor voicing his opinion about a challenge that multiple other people also saw an issue with.


Multiple = 4. 4 out of the hundreds of participants.


I'll go back to my independent search for primes as well as some GIMPS stuff.


All the best to you and I hope you find many big primes. Be sure not to search anything we've sieved, as else you will still be associated with this nonsense.
____________
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Message 87945 - Posted: 12 Sep 2015 | 0:40:52 UTC

Hey Chris,

While I'm absolutely 100% behind your impassioned defense of all those "Life, Liberty & the Pursuit of Happiness" democratic ideals, I rather think you are tilting at windmills here..

You see, the UK has a perfectly functional and finely tuned Democratic Government, much like yours, and the only reason the Monarchy there exist at all in these modern times, is purely by the Will of the People! You can be quite sure that even if a small majority of the British people disapproved of their Royals, they would force a Referendum and have them out on their ears in two shakes of a lamb's tail!

There is no doubt that in Days of Yore, the Monarchs of the British Empire did some pretty despicable Trampling on the Rights of Ordinary People in their Colonies all over the world, but if you're looking to fight that battle, I think you're a hundred or so years too late!

For somebody who defends Democracy with such passion, your actions in these forums appear to be.. aah.. (dare i say?).. somewhat Autocratic! - I trust the irony of this is not completely lost on you?

I'm fairly sure the only reason you are storming off in disgust, instead of demanding a Vote, is because you have a pretty good idea of where the Majority Opinion lies in this matter!

If you are, indeed, seeking suitable targets for your Undiluted Rage against Undemocratic Rulers, I'm sure we can supply you with a list as long as your arm of far more deserving candidates!

I have to say I find it quite incredible that you can work up so much spleen against old Queen Liz and her rather dysfunctional family, while Millions of refugees, fleeing the Tyrannical Despots of their war-torn countries, are perishing in droves while desperately trying to reach the 'safe-haven' of the very countries you have so much disdain for.. So to where, exactly, does your Moral-Compass point, in these "Interesting Times" we find ourselves in?

Down here in the Southern Tip of Africa that I call home, we have certainly had more than our fair share of the Tyranny of British Rule. When my forefathers took up arms to fight for their freedom against British Imperialism, their wives and children were rounded up and died like flies in the horrific conditions of British concentration camps, so I do have some empathy for the way you feel, but where would we be today if Mr Mandela had taken a leaf out of your book, and stormed off in disgust when all his demands were not met, instead of extending his hands in reconciliation and forgiveness? It is my fervent hope that we can all try to be a bit more like him, and see the bigger picture!

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Message 87974 - Posted: 13 Sep 2015 | 7:24:42 UTC

axiom:

Article 1. All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.

tautology:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal

Sheesh! You math guys just can't keep political discussions on topic! There are alt newsgroups and geeky websites for folks like you. 8P

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Message 87976 - Posted: 13 Sep 2015 | 10:07:50 UTC - in response to Message 87974.

tautology:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal

This is not a tautology but a reification fallacy.

Sheesh! You math guys just can't keep political discussions on topic! There are alt newsgroups and geeky websites for folks like you. 8P

A tautology is "A mathematician is logical".
A contradiction is "A political discussion is logical".
"A mathematician is a geek" and "A mathematician is not a geek" are possible propositions.

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Message 87979 - Posted: 13 Sep 2015 | 11:02:21 UTC

;-) ...interesting read. One can always say that there is agreable points
on both sides - but..

I am here to crunch. And that is what I do.

There is only one conclusion to the discussed matter:
To name challenges is a challenge in itself. ;-)

Good Luck!
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Message 87981 - Posted: 13 Sep 2015 | 11:25:21 UTC - in response to Message 87979.

;-) ...interesting read. One can always say that there is agreable points
on both sides - but..

I am here to crunch. And that is what I do.

There is only one conclusion to the discussed matter:
To name challenges is a challenge in itself. ;-)

Good Luck!


Well said!!

To me I don't base whether I crunch or not based on the name of the project, challenge or anything else, just if I want to or not. If I chose not to it means I don't care what the name of it is, if I chose too participate then the name is what it is.

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Message 88010 - Posted: 14 Sep 2015 | 5:54:51 UTC - in response to Message 87976.
Last modified: 14 Sep 2015 | 6:10:55 UTC

tautology:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal

This is not a tautology but a reification fallacy.

Sheesh! You math guys just can't keep political discussions on topic! There are alt newsgroups and geeky websites for folks like you. 8P

A tautology is "A mathematician is logical".
A contradiction is "A political discussion is logical".
"A mathematician is a geek" and "A mathematician is not a geek" are possible propositions.

I stand corrected. Thanks.
Edit:There's a difference in the meaning of "tautology" between propositional logic and rhetoric. My error is confounding propositional logic (axiom) with rhetoric (rhetorical tautology; saying that the proposition is logically irrefutable, "self-evident truth"). The original posting was just a tongue-in-cheek comment anyway on this whole discussion.

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Message 88011 - Posted: 14 Sep 2015 | 5:55:48 UTC

@ [DPC]Charley

I fail to see how I'm now "harming" PrimeGrid by not contributing. You don't seem to understand what the word "harm" means. Am I also "harming" charities by not donating to them? Am I "harming" you by not paying your bills? What else do you feel entitled to? (Elizabeth is a Queen of entitlement & autocracy, so I can see a connection in attitude now...)

Again, I owe you nothing, and it's because of your condescending, autocratic comments that have driven me away. You could have been nice, but you chose to be rude, and now you're trying to make me look like a bad guy in order to save face.

I guess you look out at the world and see millions of people "harming" PrimeGrid, because they have yet to hook their computers up to your sacred website. Ha!

Bottom line: I was not threatening or bullying anyone. Your choice in the name of the challenge offended me. Perhaps challenges don't even need names. Did you consider that? Why not simply the "Cullen Challenge"?

Every topic is potentially upsetting.


Yeah sure, in theory, but in practice it is typically politics and religion that causes problems. Hence, the name of this thread...

Have any other names actually given rise to people writing in forums about how a challenge name is inappropriate?

It has nothing to do with math, but it has everything to do with a large cultural happening in some part of the world.


Well guess what? I never came here for "cultural" information. I came here to crunch numbers and discuss/learn math.

And you are allowed to up to certain point. You were past it, both in time and manner of discussion.


How autocratic of you...

Thanks for attempting to place limits on what I'm "allowed" to do. I'm now not contributing to PrimeGrid because of this sort of condescension.

@ SteveRC

if you're looking to fight that battle, I think you're a hundred or so years too late!


No, that's not quite the battle I'm trying to fight. In the US, there's a lot of talk about "the 1%" and wealth inequality. "Her majesty" Elizabeth is a prime example of this kind of person (with even more influence than a mere billionaire).

Her extreme sense of entitlement sickens a lot of people. It's also about classism. The idea of a "commoner" disgusts me. Again, it's really just about egalitarianism more than a modern concern for democracy.

your actions in these forums appear to be.. aah.. (dare i say?).. somewhat Autocratic!


How so? How am I being tyrannical, despotic, or domineering? I'm simply not contributing any more, just like most other people in the world. [DPC]Charley seems to be the sneering autocrat here.

where would we be today if Mr Mandela had taken a leaf out of your book, and stormed off in disgust when all his demands were not met, instead of extending his hands in reconciliation and forgiveness?


I don't know. Where would we be if General George Washington hadn't revolted against King George III? At a certain point, you fight back out of dignity and self-respect. You assert your own master status instead of submitting with what Nietzsche called "slave morality".

So to where, exactly, does your Moral-Compass point, in these "Interesting Times" we find ourselves in?


I would have been fine with a "refugee" challenge. However, my moral compass certainly points away from Queen Elizabeth.

Say, I wonder if she's got some rooms in her castles for some of those refugee children?

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Credit: 531,527,563
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Discovered 2 mega primesFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de Primes321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,090,406)Cullen LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (776,297)ESP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,542,446)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,056,207)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,121,103)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,777,949)SoB LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (18,983,309)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,978,312)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,932,085)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,021,680)Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,693,614)321 Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,237,811)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,571,178)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,009,610)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (225,274,438)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,165,888)TRP Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,071,454)AP 26/27 Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,544,827)GFN Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (47,918,393)PSA Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (102,762,384)
Message 88012 - Posted: 14 Sep 2015 | 6:25:31 UTC - in response to Message 88011.

Say, I wonder if she's got some rooms in her castles for some of those refugee children?

*** Censor Alert **** Twisted Insensitive Political Incorrectness Below *** Censor Alert ***
Might you be referring to the morgues? Which by the way, all belong to the Crown.

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321 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,009,885)Cullen LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,440,123)ESP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,008,511)PPS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,389,215)PSP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,080,442)SoB LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,143,918)SR5 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,853,162)SGS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,344,963)TRP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,140,037)Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,130,355)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,038,617)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (36,643,348)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,000,717)TRP Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,298,244)GFN Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (17,332,530)PSA Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,125,451)
Message 88013 - Posted: 14 Sep 2015 | 6:28:28 UTC

Look mate, I am just af offended by your point of view as you are with mine. Lets agree to disagree and stop this nonsense.

PS English is only my third language and I am not a native speaker, so yes I might very well not comprehend the full nuance of every single word. If you like, we continue this conversation in my first or second language so that I can be more eloquent.
____________
PrimeGrid Challenge Overall standings --- Last update: From Pi to Paddy (2016)

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Joined: 16 Feb 10
Posts: 693
ID: 55391
Credit: 531,527,563
RAC: 563,344
Discovered 2 mega primesFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de Primes321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,090,406)Cullen LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (776,297)ESP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,542,446)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,056,207)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,121,103)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,777,949)SoB LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (18,983,309)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,978,312)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,932,085)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,021,680)Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,693,614)321 Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,237,811)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,571,178)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,009,610)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (225,274,438)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,165,888)TRP Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,071,454)AP 26/27 Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,544,827)GFN Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (47,918,393)PSA Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (102,762,384)
Message 88014 - Posted: 14 Sep 2015 | 6:55:28 UTC - in response to Message 88011.
Last modified: 14 Sep 2015 | 6:57:01 UTC

Elizabeth is a Queen of entitlement & autocracy, so I can see a connection in attitude now...

Not taking sides here... but if E*R herself waded in on this topic I'm sure she would be afforded the same degree of civility and respect as any of us so-called slobs. Sure this "high office" has more perks than the rest, but you must realize it's the institution, not the person, and if it wasn't her it would be someone else. So rail against the system, not the person. You gotta really show some respect for her uncle Edward VIII, who thumbed his nose at the system and single-handedly caused a constitutional crisis.

Scott BrownProject donor
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Discovered the World's First base 116 Generalized Cullen prime!!!Discovered 13 mega primesEliminated 7 conjecture "k"sDiscovered 1 Sophie Germain pairDiscovered 1 Fermat divisor2012 Tour de Primes highest prime count2012 Tour de Primes most Mountain Stage primes2015 Tour de Primes highest prime count2016 Tour de Primes highest prime countFound 23 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2018 Tour de Primes Mountain Stage2019 Tour de Primes highest prime countFound 22 primes in the 2019 Tour de Primes321 LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (100,829,118)Cullen LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (103,870,990)ESP LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (103,603,483)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (108,461,080)PPS LLR Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (339,247,040)PSP LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (108,003,110)SoB LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (135,747,083)SR5 LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (173,984,476)SGS LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (160,071,878)TPS LLR (retired) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (235,439)TRP LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (121,443,822)Woodall LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (101,447,725)321 Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (203,510,966)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (83,794,448)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (285,139,652)PPS Sieve Double Ruby: Earned 2,000,000,000 credits (2,107,637,726)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (203,523,358)TRP Sieve (suspended) Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (201,489,157)AP 26/27 Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (119,562,131)GFN Double Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000,000 credits (1,169,153,446)PSA Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (259,058,048)
Message 88018 - Posted: 14 Sep 2015 | 14:31:40 UTC

@Everyone

I am locking this thread because I think the point of the thread has been made and the conversation is now beginning to devolve into bickering. No one should interpret this as me trying to silence discussion in general, but the message that the naming of challenges should avoid political and religious overtones has been clearly stated.

I would also like to make sure that everyone understands that your opinions do matter and are listened to when it comes to how PrimeGrid operates. Listening does not mean that your opinion will necessarily become operations, but we do consider suggestions very seriously.

With regard to challenges and their names, please do make suggestions. Charley works very diligently in setting these up and trying to make them fun. Personally, I enjoy the flare that he brings to the work we do. He always opens a thread for the upcoming year's challenges and I am sure would welcome naming suggestions. As you will note, we did not rename the current challenge. Simply put, unless there were some sort of obvious reason that a challenge name could not continue (e.g., a death had prevented the record reign from occurring, etc.), it is very unlikely that a change in name will occur for objections raised with only a few days notice before that challenge. More timely objections, however, might result in a name change, etc.

Now, let's all get back to finding primes!



@Christopher Siegert
I am sorry that the name of the current challenge has so seriously upset you. It is unfortunate that you have chosen to no longer participate here, but I understand your choice to do so and thank you again for your past contributions. If you are having any trouble detaching from PrimeGrid, please let us know here on the forum and one of the admin will assist you in no longer receiving work from our project.

Message boards : Number crunching : Let's Keep Politics & Religion Out Of Challenges

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