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Message boards : Number crunching : Haswell AVX2 version of LLR available

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Michael GoetzProject donor
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Message 74062 - Posted: 4 Mar 2014 | 23:16:46 UTC
Last modified: 4 Mar 2014 | 23:17:48 UTC

Jean has released a new beta version of LLR, version 3.8.12 based on gwnum v. 28.4.

Original discussion thread is here: http://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=19167 if we're not able to answer your questions.

Source and binaries (32 and 64 bits for Linux and Windows; Mac is not built yet) can be downloaded here: http://jpenne.free.fr/

To use this, you will need to use app_info. Remember -- when you turn app_info on or off you lose any in-progress tasks, so wait until everything is finished!

Do NOT expect the kind of speed increases with AVX2 that we saw with AVX. It isn't going to happen. My understanding is there's about a 5% increase on Haswell CPUs, but I'm not sure of the test conditions. Undoubtedly memory bandwidth will still be an issue; perhaps even more so than before.

If you don't have a Haswell CPU there's no need to switch to this version of LLR.

Eventually, if there are no problems, I anticipate this version of LLR, or a subsequent version, becoming the default LLR app for PrimeGrid, but we're going to take our time before doing that to make sure nothing breaks.
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Message 74063 - Posted: 4 Mar 2014 | 23:47:23 UTC

Curiosity, indeed. I ran some tests.

Test conditions: Windows 7 with a moderate amount of stuff running in the background, but not too much because I'm trying to crunch quickly for the challenge.

Haswell Core-i5 4670K @ 3.4 GHz (4 core, no HT), 6 MB L3 cache, dual channel memory. Actual clock speed is appears to be 3.6 GHz.

Memory is 2x4GB DDR3 @ 2400 MHz.

It's likely that you will see a smaller improvement than I did if your CPU is overclocked more than mine, and especially if your memory is slower than mine.

The first test is an SGS number; the second test is an SoB number.

AVX version of LLR (3.8.9):

C:\PRPNet\prpclient-5.2.8-windows\prpclient-1>llr64 -d -q"654977083005*2^1290000
-1"
Starting Lucas Lehmer Riesel prime test of 654977083005*2^1290000-1
Using zero-padded AVX FFT length 128K, Pass1=128, Pass2=1K
V1 = 21 ; Computing U0...done.
654977083005*2^1290000-1, iteration : 10000 / 1290000 [0.77%]. Time per iterati
654977083005*2^1290000-1, iteration : 20000 / 1290000 [1.55%]. Time per iterati
on : 0.536 ms.
Caught signal. Terminating.

C:\PRPNet\prpclient-5.2.8-windows\prpclient-1>llr64 -d -q"55459*2^27999958+1"
Starting Proth prime test of 55459*2^27999958+1
Using all-complex AVX FFT length 2560K, Pass1=512, Pass2=5K, a = 3
55459*2^27999958+1, bit: 20000 / 27999973 [0.07%]. Time per bit: 13.517 ms.
Caught signal. Terminating.


AVX2 version of LLR (3.8.12):

C:\Temp\AVX2>cllr64 -d -q"654977083005*2^1290000-1"
Starting Lucas Lehmer Riesel prime test of 654977083005*2^1290000-1
Using zero-padded FMA3 FFT length 128K, Pass1=512, Pass2=256
V1 = 21 ; Computing U0...done.
654977083005*2^1290000-1, iteration : 10000 / 1290000 [0.77%]. Time per iterati
654977083005*2^1290000-1, iteration : 20000 / 1290000 [1.55%]. Time per iterati
on : 0.461 ms.
Caught signal. Terminating.

C:\Temp\AVX2>cllr64 -d -q"55459*2^27999958+1"
Starting Proth prime test of 55459*2^27999958+1
Using all-complex FMA3 FFT length 2560K, Pass1=512, Pass2=5K, a = 3
55459*2^27999958+1, bit: 20000 / 27999973 [0.07%]. Time per bit: 11.321 ms.
Caught signal. Terminating.


That's about a 16% speedup for SGS and a 19% speedup for SoB. That's more than I expected, but the results might not be as favorable with all four cores running.
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Message 74069 - Posted: 5 Mar 2014 | 2:19:53 UTC
Last modified: 5 Mar 2014 | 2:33:26 UTC

That extra speed comes with a cost. I ran 4 PSP numbers with the new LLR so I could compare it to the 4 BOINC tasks currently running.

The CPU consumed significantly more power and ran a lot hotter.

I had the fans set to max speed so that temperature comparisons would be made under equal conditions.

The CPU ran about 8 degrees hotter with AVX2 (63 vs 56) and was consuming up to 15 watts more power. (With AVX, it's running at about 70 to 80 watts, with AVX2 it was varying between 85 and 95 watts.)

Design TDP for the CPU is 84W.

EDIT: I looked up what TDP actually is, and it's not what I thought it was nor is it intuitive. It's not a limit of any sort. It's the design point for the computer's cooling system (i.e., the Intel stock cooler) for when computer is doing "typical" applications.

Our applications are far from typical.
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Message 74072 - Posted: 5 Mar 2014 | 4:11:35 UTC - in response to Message 74062.

If you don't have a Haswell CPU there's no need to switch to this version of LLR.


The new gwnum library (that this release is based on) is supposed to be about 1-2% faster on Sandy/Ivy as well.

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Message 74084 - Posted: 5 Mar 2014 | 13:25:17 UTC - in response to Message 74072.
Last modified: 5 Mar 2014 | 13:31:06 UTC

If you don't have a Haswell CPU there's no need to switch to this version of LLR.


The new gwnum library (that this release is based on) is supposed to be about 1-2% faster on Sandy/Ivy as well.


Yes you need to switch.
On an Ivy Bridge processor I get a 3.5 % improvement.
I always learned with Prime95 that better a small improvement than nothing. Even at least 1 % is even better than 0% speed up.

BTW, someone said (Michael Goetz)here the following:



What I was saying was that AVX2 is not very useful. And probably never will be. The AVX2 instruction set, for the most part, is of no use to us, and the one instruction that is useful doesn't provide a significant benefit. It's not a game changer. It's barely noticeable above the background noise, to be honest. That's unlikely to change. Anyone who was expecting a big improvement from an "AVX2 optimized app" wasn't well informed on the nature of AVX2.

There are other improvements in Haswell, but AVX2 isn't a big deal, and never will be.


Now it is a funny comment...
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Message 74085 - Posted: 5 Mar 2014 | 13:36:24 UTC - in response to Message 74084.

I always learned with Prime95 that better a small improvement than nothing. Even at least 1 % is even better than 0% speed up.


So in Michael's case, we have quite nice 16-19% speed-up and 19-21% higher power consumption and higher temperatures (which may become issue in summer on stock cooling).
Well, I don't consider this a win-win situation.

Carlos, what is your trade-off in terms of power consumption and temperatures on Ivy Bridge?

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Message 74087 - Posted: 5 Mar 2014 | 13:40:32 UTC - in response to Message 74084.

BTW, someone said (Michael Goetz)here the following:



What I was saying was that AVX2 is not very useful. And probably never will be. The AVX2 instruction set, for the most part, is of no use to us, and the one instruction that is useful doesn't provide a significant benefit. It's not a game changer. It's barely noticeable above the background noise, to be honest. That's unlikely to change. Anyone who was expecting a big improvement from an "AVX2 optimized app" wasn't well informed on the nature of AVX2.

There are other improvements in Haswell, but AVX2 isn't a big deal, and never will be.


Now it is a funny comment...


That wasn't even that long ago! I'm actually very, very surprised by the improvement. I'm curious to see what other people's experiences are.
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Message 74091 - Posted: 5 Mar 2014 | 14:34:59 UTC

Honza,

I don't measure power consumption and take note of temperatures just for two simple reasons, the first one is that electricity is very cheap here and second I live in a tropical country so ambient temps are always very high at the room I have my laptop. Basically since the start of the year I've turned on the AC 85 % of the time during afternoons and nights.

By CoreTemp software I know the laptop is consuming something like 29 Wh but I don't know if this number is real, I should use a energy meter instead. Also I don't know if the latter has a good accuracy for small energy consumptions. This consumption is only for the use of 2 threads out of 8, I can't switch off HT ( nothing on BIOS) to increase speed and decrease temperatures of the cores. Also I use only 2 threads due to memory bottleneck.

When I first tested this new version I was getting a speed up of 2.5 %. In the last 2-3 days the ambient temperature decreased something like 5-10 ºC and so now I am getting a speed up of 3.8%. Also it depends a lot if I have the AC turned on or turned off.

The other cores are in controlled atmospheres (lab) with AC and therefore I don't care about how much they are consuming.

Carlos


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Message 74093 - Posted: 5 Mar 2014 | 15:05:44 UTC - in response to Message 74087.
Last modified: 5 Mar 2014 | 15:07:24 UTC

That wasn't even that long ago! I'm actually very, very surprised by the improvement. I'm curious to see what other people's experiences are.


Haswell is able to execute 2 FMA per cycle or 2 MUL or 1 MUL and 1 ADD.
Then without FMA, peak theoretical performance is 2 x 4 flops / cycle.
With FMA, it is 4 x 4 flops / cycle (FMA = 2 flops).
[x 4 because of AVX vector]

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Message 74100 - Posted: 5 Mar 2014 | 16:59:18 UTC - in response to Message 74093.

I would recommend serious thought before making the new app the default one.

When AVX1 LLR was introduced, I had to stop crunching on all 4 cores on a 4 core SB, because the temps went well above the stock cooler limits (it also killed a low end PSU).

If the new app raises the temps (and power draw) even further, making it default might damage some systems from users that do not read the forums very often.

A checkbox on the prefs page (as the one on genefer), with the proper warnings, allowing to choose between the current LLR app and the new one, if feasible, could reduce that risk and be a good alternative (better than app_info), at least for regular users.
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Message 74104 - Posted: 5 Mar 2014 | 18:32:35 UTC - in response to Message 74100.

I would recommend serious thought before making the new app the default one.

When AVX1 LLR was introduced, I had to stop crunching on all 4 cores on a 4 core SB, because the temps went well above the stock cooler limits (it also killed a low end PSU).

If the new app raises the temps (and power draw) even further, making it default might damage some systems from users that do not read the forums very often.

A checkbox on the prefs page (as the one on genefer), with the proper warnings, allowing to choose between the current LLR app and the new one, if feasible, could reduce that risk and be a good alternative (better than app_info), at least for regular users.


It's not nearly as drastic a change as with AVX. Furthermore, I suspect if I wasn't running 2400 MHz memory I would not have seen such increases in speed, power, or heat.

There will be warnings, but this will eventually become the default app. As for checkboxes, the only reason those are there for genefer is because (so far) technical limitations prevent using a single app. That will change and the AVX check box will go away.

It should also be noted that Intel CPUs throttle themselves when they overheat. There are youtube videos of people literally pulling the heatsink off of the cpu while gaming. The frame rate drops but the cpu survives. (Not so with AMD!)

But your point is well taken. Not everyone pays attention, and we'll give a lot of warning before putting this live. If you're currently overclocking a Haswell CPU until it glows, it will glow a little bit brighter. :)

With regards to your AVX woes, was that CPU overclocked? If so, it's really easy to exceed the TDP. By definition, that all but assures that the stock cooler can't handle the cooling anymore. The stock cooling is designed to handle the TDP load, which in turn is based on a "normal" CPU load. LLR is most definitely NOT a normal load and can exceed TDP even without overclocking.

This all has to do with marketing -- you would think that you could run an out-of-the-box computer at full speed, but that's not actually true. The CPUs can in fact be pushed beyond "stock" cooling limits. I'm a bit surprised you lost a power supply, however, if at stock speeds.

In any event, we're not rushing with this. At a minimum we want people to use it with app_info for a while to see if there's any unexpected problems. Or even if the expected problems (heat, power, etc.) are worse than anticipated.

I just started the first set of PSP tasks with the FMA3 version of LLR. We'll see how it goes. It's a little tricky to draw direct speed comparisons with the previous PSP tasks because the tasks are longer. They're now in the 15K challenge point range.
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321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (425,863)Cullen LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (621,687)ESP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,051,908)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,827,883)PPS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,024,781)PSP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (28,367,849)SoB LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,869,428)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,189,992)SGS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,241,592)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,031,397)Woodall LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (953,207)321 Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (20,003)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (200,371)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,643,386)PPS Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,492,709)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,017,144)TRP Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (554,946)AP 26/27 Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,577,848)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (96,545,241)PSA Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,210,273)
Message 74108 - Posted: 5 Mar 2014 | 19:33:58 UTC

Mac builds are now available at http://jpenne.free.fr/.

Cheers

- Iain
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321 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (17,073,876)Cullen LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,119,079)ESP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,656,301)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (21,641,423)PPS LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (27,812,090)PSP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (28,488,353)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,506,682)SR5 LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (32,182,476)SGS LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,006,378)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (61,785)TRP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,260,536)Woodall LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,640,185)321 Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,196,290)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,685,309)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (53,323,892)PPS Sieve Double Ruby: Earned 2,000,000,000 credits (2,000,038,364)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,057,785)TRP Sieve (suspended) Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,146,560)AP 26/27 Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (65,672,658)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (320,329,961)PSA Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (30,712,087)
Message 74109 - Posted: 5 Mar 2014 | 19:58:37 UTC - in response to Message 74108.

I have updated the sllr64 app for my "PC BSD" host. The temps of all 4 cores are 5° Celsius higher than before. If the new app is about 10% faster ... it is o.k.
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Tour de Primes 2012Tour de Primes 2012Tour de Primes 2015Tour de Primes 2016321 LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (51,155,312)Cullen LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (36,998,560)ESP LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (51,888,554)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (51,532,509)PPS LLR Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (252,137,742)PSP LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (74,170,654)SoB LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (51,979,891)SR5 LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (105,171,537)SGS LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (138,416,067)TPS LLR (retired) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (235,439)TRP LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,499,725)Woodall LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (38,499,333)321 Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,322,150)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (83,794,448)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (101,107,640)PPS Sieve Double Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000,000 credits (1,655,013,556)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (203,523,358)TRP Sieve (suspended) Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (201,489,157)AP 26/27 Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (100,770,267)GFN Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (525,185,104)PSA Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (257,080,048)
Message 74112 - Posted: 5 Mar 2014 | 20:19:44 UTC


Testing a bit with a SandyBridge laptop on the MEGA port of PRPnet. I don't see any difference in processing speed or temps at this point (but that could actually just be matching the 1%-2% noted by axn above).

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Message 74113 - Posted: 5 Mar 2014 | 20:45:07 UTC - in response to Message 74112.


Testing a bit with a SandyBridge laptop on the MEGA port of PRPnet. I don't see any difference in processing speed or temps at this point (but that could actually just be matching the 1%-2% noted by axn above).



It's possible the laptop is already thermally limited, which would explain why you don't see any increases.

You might want to see if enhancing the cooling (i.e., using a big desk fan) produces interesting results.


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Tour de Primes 2012Tour de Primes 2012Tour de Primes 2015Tour de Primes 2016321 LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (51,155,312)Cullen LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (36,998,560)ESP LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (51,888,554)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (51,532,509)PPS LLR Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (252,137,742)PSP LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (74,170,654)SoB LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (51,979,891)SR5 LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (105,171,537)SGS LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (138,416,067)TPS LLR (retired) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (235,439)TRP LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,499,725)Woodall LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (38,499,333)321 Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,322,150)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (83,794,448)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (101,107,640)PPS Sieve Double Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000,000 credits (1,655,013,556)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (203,523,358)TRP Sieve (suspended) Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (201,489,157)AP 26/27 Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (100,770,267)GFN Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (525,185,104)PSA Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (257,080,048)
Message 74118 - Posted: 5 Mar 2014 | 22:07:23 UTC - in response to Message 74113.


Testing a bit with a SandyBridge laptop on the MEGA port of PRPnet. I don't see any difference in processing speed or temps at this point (but that could actually just be matching the 1%-2% noted by axn above).



It's possible the laptop is already thermally limited, which would explain why you don't see any increases.

You might want to see if enhancing the cooling (i.e., using a big desk fan) produces interesting results.



Already elevated with an external cooling fan in place. Temps under old and Beta LLR version running about 78C-82C with occasional bumps to 84C. Running on only four threads manually (no HT off option in BIOS)...3 threads with old LLR app and 1 with Beta app.



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321 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,029,985)Cullen LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (571,506)ESP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (185,054)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (194,746)PPS LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (530,935)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,190,174)SoB LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,201,813)SR5 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (292,115)SGS LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (742,845)TRP LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (675,047)Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,154,682)321 Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,004,255)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (25,001,013)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,713,575)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,791,251)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (21,004,347)TRP Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,080,762)AP 26/27 Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (233,062)GFN Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,348,340)PSA Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (211,582,538)
Message 74119 - Posted: 5 Mar 2014 | 22:30:05 UTC

Xeon 1230 /hsw/ 4/4 @ 3.7 GHz / 2400 MHz RAM

http://www.primegrid.com/results.php?hostid=415039&offset=0&show_names=0&state=3&appid=2

HOT! :)

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321 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,006,834)Cullen LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,157,331)ESP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,179,211)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,048,769)PPS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,241,722)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,632,269)SoB LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,003,279)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,605,559)SGS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,501,568)TRP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,009,313)Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,145,077)321 Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (200,576)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,170,256)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,085,723)PPS Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (18,162,350)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,877,196)GFN Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (37,499,175)PSA Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (9,426,791)
Message 74120 - Posted: 5 Mar 2014 | 22:42:44 UTC - in response to Message 74119.
Last modified: 5 Mar 2014 | 22:44:06 UTC

Xeon 1230 /hsw/ 4/4 @ 3.7 GHz / 2400 MHz RAM

http://www.primegrid.com/results.php?hostid=415039&offset=0&show_names=0&state=3&appid=2

HOT! :)


That looks like a 17% increase -- nice!

EDIT: SGS is an excellent way to easily check performance because not only are the tasks short, but they're all almost exactly the same length.
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321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,080,795)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,277,342)ESP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,085,940)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (519,146)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,268,794)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,203,179)SoB LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,194,447)SR5 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,573,827)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,481,883)TRP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,019,191)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,100,141)321 Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (200,818)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (59,788,598)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,056,778)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (446,493,706)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,130,821)TRP Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,074,710)AP 26/27 Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (227,004)GFN Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (106,842,054)PSA Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (62,378,755)
Message 74166 - Posted: 7 Mar 2014 | 1:57:28 UTC

Just a gentle reminder that if you switch either to or from using app_info.xml, you will lose all in-progress work. Gone. Similar effect as if you had pressed "abort". Michael mentioned this in the original post, and it was referenced later on. I just brought this up again in case someone has the idea of swapping this in during the ongoing challenge. If you do that, where the WUs are well over a day long, and probably more like 2-4 even for boxes that qualify as "fast" (rather than "screaming"), you have to choose to trash existing work, or suspend new work fetch until the last current one finishes (though you could put the early-finishing cores to use elsewhere in the meantime). This caution applies to any ongoing GPU work (other subprojects, of course) too.

I for one plan on testing this new version on Linux, but not until after the challenge is over. I don't have Haswell anyway; just SB and IB.

--Gary

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Message 74184 - Posted: 7 Mar 2014 | 12:28:44 UTC

Her'e some stats from the PSP tasks I've been running:

sent digits score CPU time Speed 2/23/2014 23:05 4,499,845 12,120 161,893 13.35750825 Pre-challenge, 1600 MHz memory 2/23/2014 23:54 4,500,590 12,124 161,380 13.31078852 2/24/2014 1:20 4,500,655 12,124 160,502 13.23837017 2/24/2014 1:31 4,500,615 12,124 161,695 13.33677004 3/1/2014 18:00 4,710,864 13,283 136,371 10.26658134 Challenge set 1, 2400 MHz memory 3/1/2014 18:00 4,718,119 13,324 136,573 10.25015011 3/1/2014 18:00 4,719,040 13,329 138,882 10.41953635 3/1/2014 18:00 4,713,804 13,300 136,937 10.29601504 3/3/2014 12:56 4,794,902 14,942 153,078 10.24481328 Challenge set 2 3/3/2014 13:07 4,793,378 14,932 151,995 10.17914546 3/3/2014 13:12 4,737,054 13,431 139,106 10.35708436 3/3/2014 19:40 4,798,674 14,965 149,906 10.01710658 3/5/2014 17:54 4,825,883 15,135 128,959 8.520581434 Challenge set 3, 2400 MHz memory and AVX2 3/5/2014 17:54 4,830,653 13,967 0 0 3/5/2014 17:54 4,828,520 15,152 127,672 8.426082365 3/5/2014 17:54 4,828,564 15,152 0 0 3/7/2014 8:41 4,962,224 16,003 0 0 Challenge set 4 3/7/2014 10:09 4,834,546 13,990 0 0


"Score" are challenge points, which is a unitless number, is equivalent to credit (but not identical), and is the measure of how long it should take to run LLR on that task.

"Speed" is how many seconds per "Score" point. Lower is better.

Running with 1600 MHz memory achieved a speed of about 13.3 CPU seconds per score point.

Increasing the memory to 2400 MHz increased the speed to about 10.3 CPU seconds per score point. (A 22.97% increase.)

Switching to the new AVX2/FMA3 version of LLR further increased the speed to about 8.5 CPU seconds per score point. (An additional 17.36% increase in speed.)

You mileage WILL vary.
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321 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,006,834)Cullen LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,157,331)ESP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,179,211)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,048,769)PPS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,241,722)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,632,269)SoB LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,003,279)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,605,559)SGS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,501,568)TRP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,009,313)Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,145,077)321 Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (200,576)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,170,256)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,085,723)PPS Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (18,162,350)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,877,196)GFN Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (37,499,175)PSA Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (9,426,791)
Message 74303 - Posted: 10 Mar 2014 | 11:49:44 UTC

Please replace LLR 3.8.12 with 3.8.13

A bug was discovered in 3.8.12 that could cause errors with SR5 tasks on Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge CPUs.

Even if you have a CPU that is not affected, or are not crunching SR5, please update to 3.8.13 as soon as possible if you're running 3.8.12. Don't abort tasks, but we need to test the new version.

If you have an SB or IB CPU and have been getting computation errors with SR5, this should fix the problem.


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321 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,256,768)Cullen LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,743,874)ESP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (18,570,636)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,406,908)PPS LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (51,016,093)PSP LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (23,462,639)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,553,364)SR5 LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,233,642)SGS LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,037,618)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (43,033)TRP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,277,757)Woodall LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,037,694)321 Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,024,795)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,142,109)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,357,260)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (326,317,664)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,288,222)TRP Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,149,354)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,062,973)GFN Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (507,033,003)PSA Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (525,027,972)
Message 74306 - Posted: 10 Mar 2014 | 12:17:06 UTC

Upgraded to 3.8.13 on my 3 hosts running beta LLR.

The bug only affects zero-padded non-base-2 AVX FFTs larger than 6K.

It is safe to says that ONLY SR5 tasks are affected?
I care because of SoB in progress for obvious reasons...
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Message 74310 - Posted: 10 Mar 2014 | 12:39:48 UTC - in response to Message 74306.

Upgraded to 3.8.13 on my 3 hosts running beta LLR.

The bug only affects zero-padded non-base-2 AVX FFTs larger than 6K.

It is safe to says that ONLY SR5 tasks are affected?
I care because of SoB in progress for obvious reasons...


I don't know anything more about it than you do, but that's certainly the way I interpret it. Also, it's possible we've been lucky and the numbers we're currently testing on SR5 are using the "all-complex AVX" rather than "zero padded AVX" transform, in which case it wouldn't be affected. (I don't see ANY computation errors for SR5 from anonymous platforms, so perhaps we were lucky.)

Your SoB should be fine.

From what George said, I think affected tests will almost always fail, and we're not seeing failures.

In fact, I'm debating whether to switch to the new version immediately or wait until after the challenge finishes. My PSP tasks are offset about 24 hours, so I'd have about a day of downtime waiting for them all to finish in order to switch. Everything on BOINC that's not SR5 should be fine. (PRPNet has other non-base 2 projects.)
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Message 74314 - Posted: 10 Mar 2014 | 14:05:13 UTC - in response to Message 74306.

Upgraded to 3.8.13 on my 3 hosts running beta LLR.

The bug only affects zero-padded non-base-2 AVX FFTs larger than 6K.

It is safe to says that ONLY SR5 tasks are affected?
I care because of SoB in progress for obvious reasons...


I have compiled the new 64bit versions and the affected bug was fixed in 3.8.13.

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321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (115,936)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (169,920)ESP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (104,695)PPS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,260,929)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (129,609)SoB LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (137,062)SR5 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (594,172)SGS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (115,118)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (104,510)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (106,100)PPS Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,999,728)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (103,975)TRP Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (516,130)GFN Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,533,296)PSA Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,146,521)
Message 74485 - Posted: 14 Mar 2014 | 15:11:29 UTC - in response to Message 74483.

FMA3 tasks really, really run extremely hot! Compared to current BOINC app I get about 10oC increase in CPU temps and thermal warnings. This is possibly due to turbo boosting and the known cooling issues of these cpus. So I would not recommend this FMA3 version.

Linux 64bit i7-4770K CPU @ 3.50GHz host using the downloaded static version for the short tests. I will do the 2 SR5 tests but the remaining 2 will depend on challenge progress.


Are you using the standard cpu fan shipped with your CPU.
I've replaced that by a bigger fan with a heatsink.
I've got a Xeon E3-1230 V3 CPU running @ 3.7GHz and even if the TPD is over 100% my temps won't exceed 75°C
So in my eyes it's not an issue of the workunits/programm but more of the HW setup

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Message 74486 - Posted: 14 Mar 2014 | 15:55:44 UTC
Last modified: 14 Mar 2014 | 15:57:39 UTC

WIth my i5 4670K running at stock but with 2400 MHz memory and 4 cores running PSP with 3.8.13, I'm seeing temperatures of 65 to 70 degrees depending on whether the GPU is running. (Please note that different utilities report CPU temperatures differently. These are the temperatures I see from Asus's motherboard utilities.)

That's with a big aftermarket CPU air cooler and an HAF case with lots of big fans. (However, the computer is adjacent to this room's steam radiator, and the heat is on, so the effective ambient temperature for the computer is a bit on the high side.)

There was a large increase in speed, power, and temperatures when I changed the memory from 1600 MHz to 2400 MHz.
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Message 74505 - Posted: 14 Mar 2014 | 22:51:33 UTC

I'm slightly confused. AVX2 = FMA3 ? I thought this two are different set of instructions.

So, if this fma3 is used, maybe AMD would benefit from it? It didn't utilize avx though.

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Message 74506 - Posted: 14 Mar 2014 | 23:28:08 UTC - in response to Message 74505.

I'm slightly confused. AVX2 = FMA3 ? I thought this two are different set of instructions.

So, if this fma3 is used, maybe AMD would benefit from it? It didn't utilize avx though.


AVX2 and FMA3 are really different sets of instruction extensions, although since they both appeared with Haswell, for our purposes some people are using them interchangeably.

What we're using is FMA3. I don't think any AVX2 instructions are useful for us.

According to Wikipedia, FMA3 is supported on AMD CPUs starting with Piledriver.

Whether gwnum and llr make use of FMA3 on AMD Piledriver CPUs is a question to which I do not know the answer. It's possible FMA3 isn't valuable without also using AVX, and AVX isn't beneficial on AMD, at least so far.

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Message 74519 - Posted: 15 Mar 2014 | 12:53:00 UTC

I've moved all the posts about the FMA3 testing to

FMA3 LLR Testing Thread.

Further testing results, reservations, etc., should go there. Thank you!

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Message 75529 - Posted: 15 Apr 2014 | 2:18:13 UTC

I can't wait to see how the Haswell-E performs with the new LLR. 8 or 6 cores, with quad channel DDR4 2133 support. With fast memory and a good cooling solution, it should be very quick.

Patiently waiting... for Q2

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Message 75566 - Posted: 16 Apr 2014 | 17:55:25 UTC - in response to Message 75529.
Last modified: 16 Apr 2014 | 18:18:46 UTC

If I'm a brand-new user of PrimeGrid and I want to use the 3.8.13 LLR beta for the upcoming Shakespeare challenge, what is the minimum app_config.xml I would need to put in place?

EDIT: Even though it appears the 3.8.13 app will be pushed tomorrow (according to
http://www.primegrid.com/forum_thread.php?id=5642), I would still like a modern reference on how to accomplish app_config.xml tweaks for this project. Thank you.

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Message 75571 - Posted: 16 Apr 2014 | 21:20:03 UTC - in response to Message 75566.

If I'm a brand-new user of PrimeGrid and I want to use the 3.8.13 LLR beta for the upcoming Shakespeare challenge, what is the minimum app_config.xml I would need to put in place?

EDIT: Even though it appears the 3.8.13 app will be pushed tomorrow (according to
http://www.primegrid.com/forum_thread.php?id=5642), I would still like a modern reference on how to accomplish app_config.xml tweaks for this project. Thank you.


http://www.primegrid.com/forum_thread.php?id=5580&nowrap=true#74587


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Message 75576 - Posted: 17 Apr 2014 | 1:08:31 UTC

The new version of FMA3 is now live for PPS (and only PPS).

Let me know if there's anything odd happening that looks like it shouldn't be happening.
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321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (109,456)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (119,745)ESP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (108,324)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (108,718)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (129,783)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (161,866)SoB LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (270,368)SR5 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (139,278)SGS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (102,507)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (105,882)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (100,634)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (114,698)PPS Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,639,683)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (59,653)TRP Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (122,603)AP 26/27 Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,208,857)GFN Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,659,738)PSA Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,793,500)
Message 75577 - Posted: 17 Apr 2014 | 3:20:44 UTC
Last modified: 17 Apr 2014 | 3:22:12 UTC

Man that FMA3 is no joke... it gets that CPU running HOT! (even with no overclocking). It runs about 10 to 15 (C) hotter than other workunits, but it is crunching the workunits faster than before. I definitely won't be able to run these during the summer, it will just be too hot.

Thanks a lot for all the hard work with program optimization. Optimizing programs means faster results, and more discoveries!

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Message 75579 - Posted: 17 Apr 2014 | 4:53:29 UTC - in response to Message 75577.

I definitely won't be able to run these during the summer, it will just be too hot.

During summer, try running it on 3 cores (75% cpu). You might be surprised just how little loss of performance there is (unless you have really fast RAM).

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321 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,006,834)Cullen LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,157,331)ESP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,179,211)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,048,769)PPS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,241,722)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,632,269)SoB LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,003,279)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,605,559)SGS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,501,568)TRP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,009,313)Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,145,077)321 Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (200,576)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,170,256)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,085,723)PPS Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (18,162,350)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,877,196)GFN Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (37,499,175)PSA Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (9,426,791)
Message 75633 - Posted: 18 Apr 2014 | 21:56:44 UTC - in response to Message 75577.

Man that FMA3 is no joke... it gets that CPU running HOT! (even with no overclocking). It runs about 10 to 15 (C) hotter than other workunits, but it is crunching the workunits faster than before. I definitely won't be able to run these during the summer, it will just be too hot.

Thanks a lot for all the hard work with program optimization. Optimizing programs means faster results, and more discoveries!


One thing to bear in mind is that the limiting factor on the speed of this version of LLR is how slow your memory is, and the mitigation for the memory slowness is the L1/L2/L3 caches. What that means in practice is that smaller tasks (e.g., PPSE) will run faster and hotter than larger tasks such as SoB because a higher percentage of memory accesses will be served by the CPU cache.

You might find that running large tasks lowers the temps enough to run in the summer. Conversely, PPSE will run even hotter than PPS.
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Message 75634 - Posted: 18 Apr 2014 | 22:02:10 UTC

The rollout of the new LLR on PPS went very smoothly, so we're going to install the FMA3 LLR on the remaining LLR projects tomorrow rather than waiting until after the challenge.

I expect to install the apps sometime early on Sunday April 20th (UTC), which means Saturday evening or afternoon in the western hemisphere.
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321 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (500,046)Cullen LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (663,060)ESP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (376,850)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (41,013)PPS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,605,439)PSP LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (858,254)SoB LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (370,236)SR5 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (416,674)SGS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,029,169)TRP LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (500,883)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (289,453)321 Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (49,702)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,514,234)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (462,573)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (26,643,579)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,053,962)TRP Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,069,301)AP 26/27 Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (311,659)GFN Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (9,189,097)PSA Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (692,337)
Message 75639 - Posted: 19 Apr 2014 | 5:05:54 UTC - in response to Message 75634.
Last modified: 19 Apr 2014 | 5:07:27 UTC

The rollout of the new LLR on PPS went very smoothly, so we're going to install the FMA3 LLR on the remaining LLR projects tomorrow rather than waiting until after the challenge.

I expect to install the apps sometime early on Sunday April 20th (UTC), which means Saturday evening or afternoon in the western hemisphere.


Will this effect any currently running tasks?

I have two computers running three Genefer CPU tasks each and I know that at least four of the six will not by done by then, maybe more. I would hate to lose all the time I have spent on these tasks.

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321 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,006,834)Cullen LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,157,331)ESP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,179,211)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,048,769)PPS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,241,722)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,632,269)SoB LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,003,279)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,605,559)SGS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,501,568)TRP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,009,313)Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,145,077)321 Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (200,576)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,170,256)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,085,723)PPS Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (18,162,350)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,877,196)GFN Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (37,499,175)PSA Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (9,426,791)
Message 75640 - Posted: 19 Apr 2014 | 5:16:18 UTC - in response to Message 75639.

The rollout of the new LLR on PPS went very smoothly, so we're going to install the FMA3 LLR on the remaining LLR projects tomorrow rather than waiting until after the challenge.

I expect to install the apps sometime early on Sunday April 20th (UTC), which means Saturday evening or afternoon in the western hemisphere.


Will this effect any currently running tasks?

I have two computers running three Genefer CPU tasks each and I know that at least four of the six will not by done by then, maybe more. I would hate to lose all the time I have spent on these tasks.


It only affects tasks sent out after the change is made on the server. If the task has already been sent to your computer, even if it's not started running yet, you'll run the old app.

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321 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (590,247)Cullen LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,019,085)ESP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,006,207)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (300,592)PPS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,839,000)PSP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,147,411)SoB LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (521,611)SR5 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,036,817)SGS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,068,652)TRP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,004,422)Woodall LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (531,350)321 Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (223,275)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,655,968)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,006,509)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (343,952,410)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,014,690)TRP Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,141,121)AP 26/27 Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,422,266)GFN Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,753,065)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (16,276,495)
Message 75643 - Posted: 19 Apr 2014 | 9:21:10 UTC

Do you think there could be a problem with the save/check point when using the new app? This WU seems to have taken too long on my machine.
Thanks.

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321 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (500,046)Cullen LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (663,060)ESP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (376,850)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (41,013)PPS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,605,439)PSP LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (858,254)SoB LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (370,236)SR5 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (416,674)SGS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,029,169)TRP LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (500,883)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (289,453)321 Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (49,702)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,514,234)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (462,573)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (26,643,579)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,053,962)TRP Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,069,301)AP 26/27 Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (311,659)GFN Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (9,189,097)PSA Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (692,337)
Message 75644 - Posted: 19 Apr 2014 | 9:45:26 UTC - in response to Message 75640.

It only affects tasks sent out after the change is made on the server. If the task has already been sent to your computer, even if it's not started running yet, you'll run the old app.


Michael,

Thank you for your rapid reply.

One other question, will the old apps somehow self-delete? Or will they stay on everyone's computers taking up space for no good reason after all tasks sent before the release of the new version is complete on said computer until everyone does a project reset on each of their computers?

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Message 75646 - Posted: 19 Apr 2014 | 12:31:29 UTC - in response to Message 75644.

It only affects tasks sent out after the change is made on the server. If the task has already been sent to your computer, even if it's not started running yet, you'll run the old app.


Michael,

Thank you for your rapid reply.

One other question, will the old apps somehow self-delete? Or will they stay on everyone's computers taking up space for no good reason after all tasks sent before the release of the new version is complete on said computer until everyone does a project reset on each of their computers?


They should delete themselves.
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Please do not PM me with support questions. They will usually go unanswered. Ask on the forums instead. Thank you!

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321 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (590,247)Cullen LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,019,085)ESP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,006,207)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (300,592)PPS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,839,000)PSP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,147,411)SoB LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (521,611)SR5 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,036,817)SGS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,068,652)TRP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,004,422)Woodall LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (531,350)321 Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (223,275)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,655,968)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,006,509)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (343,952,410)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,014,690)TRP Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,141,121)AP 26/27 Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,422,266)GFN Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,753,065)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (16,276,495)
Message 75647 - Posted: 19 Apr 2014 | 12:41:31 UTC - in response to Message 75643.

Do you think there could be a problem with the save/check point when using the new app? This WU seems to have taken too long on my machine.
Thanks.

Another one 539921384

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Message 75649 - Posted: 19 Apr 2014 | 13:33:44 UTC - in response to Message 75647.

Do you think there could be a problem with the save/check point when using the new app? This WU seems to have taken too long on my machine.
Thanks.

Another one 539921384


I don't see any reason why the increased run time would have anything to do with the checkpointing.

The PPS tasks *should* be rather consistent as far as the run length is concerned, meaning the total number of CPU instructions that need to be executed for the entire calculation will be similar.

However, other programs simultaneously running on your computer can affect how fast each CPU instruction in LLR takes to execute. As an example, let's say you're running a full disk virus scan. The scan uses the CPU a lot, and will fill the CPU cache with its own data, so LLR will have more cache misses than it otherwise would have. As a result, each CPU instruction takes longer to operate, and the same size PPS task will not only register longer elapsed times, but also longer CPU times. I'm not saying that's what's happening in your situation, but it's a viable, reasonable explanation that fits what's you're seeing.

Essentially, although we might think of CPU time as an unwavering measure of the amount of work that was performed, it's not. Just like the elapsed time, it can be affected by external factors.

What's different about this app is that it's much more efficient on Haswell CPUs, so it's also more sensitive to efficient use of the CPU cache. It's not unreasonable that other programs may therefore have a larger affect on how quickly LLR runs.
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Message 75651 - Posted: 19 Apr 2014 | 15:51:01 UTC - in response to Message 75649.

I don't see any reason why the increased run time would have anything to do with the checkpointing.

Good news. But why has this just started to happen on my machine? It didn't happen with version 6.23.

I don't have anti virus scans running on my machine unless I instigate them and I can't think of any other software that uses massive amounts of resources.

Only one core is in use by BOINC plus whatever is needed for GPU sieving. I do have one core on PRPNet Mega. GPU sieving and PRPNet are running constantly so if they were the problem then the run times of more BOINC LLR WUs would be affected. right?

I only have my machine running from 8am to 12pm. I'll see what happens with the WU that gets suspended tonight.

Thanks for looking at my post.
Peter

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Message 75653 - Posted: 19 Apr 2014 | 16:35:59 UTC - in response to Message 75651.

I don't see any reason why the increased run time would have anything to do with the checkpointing.

Good news. But why has this just started to happen on my machine? It didn't happen with version 6.23.


I just answered that: the new version is more efficient, but that efficiency comes with an increased potential for interference by other programs.

I don't have anti virus scans running on my machine unless I instigate them and I can't think of any other software that uses massive amounts of resources.


It's one possibility. There's lots of other potential causes. If you find the exact answer for the cause on your system, please let us know since the answer may be of use to others.

Only one core is in use by BOINC plus whatever is needed for GPU sieving. I do have one core on PRPNet Mega. GPU sieving and PRPNet are running constantly so if they were the problem then the run times of more BOINC LLR WUs would be affected. right?


There's too many variables to be able to make a rational prediction.

I only have my machine running from 8am to 12pm. I'll see what happens with the WU that gets suspended tonight.


OH. You probably should have started with this part. BOINC isn't always great about properly saving runtimes when a task is suspended. I wouldn't bother trying to find an in depth scientific perfect explanation when the real answer might be as simple as, "BOINC measured it wrong."


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Message 75664 - Posted: 19 Apr 2014 | 20:07:47 UTC

I've tried some benchmarks with new version. Look like configuring this thing for maximum performance is not a trivial task!

Benchmark was run with 1..4 instances of LLR running on SR5, FFT size 384K and 400K. Columns 1-4 - msec per "bit" for each instance, then average bits per second for one core, and the most important last column - overall throughput from all cores.

Conclusions:

1. 3.8.13 is indeed faster.
2. It really, really depends on throughput of main memory.
3. In my configuration, best performance obtained with three cores. Enabling 4th core will slow everything down.
4. Peoples who want to get max out of their system must run these benchmarks yourself, considering projects they're crunching and their FFT size.

5. Probably I must invest in faster memory or overclock it (it's not overclocked (yet) 4770K with dual-channel memory, but memory chips are simple stock ones, 1333 CL9).
6. I could left 4th CPU core idle to keep CPU cooler (if it'll be necessary after overclocking) use it for another project which does not have heavy memory dependencies.

3.8.13 SR5 384K 1.509 663 663 1.537 1.537 651 1301 1.748 1.733 1.734 575 1726 2.651 2.629 2.624 2.649 379 1516 3.8.13 SR5 400K 1.623 617 617 1.646 1.646 607 1215 1.870 1.884 1.896 531 1593 2.662 2.695 2.694 2.702 372 1488 3.8.9 SR5 384K 1.874 534 534 1.962 1.932 514 1027 2.280 2.218 2.190 449 1346 3.060 2.931 2.861 2.907 340 1360 3.8.9 SR5 400K 1.969 508 508 2.063 2.053 486 972 2.412 2.391 2.383 417 1252 3.227 3.141 3.195 3.119 315 1261

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Message 75665 - Posted: 19 Apr 2014 | 20:28:36 UTC - in response to Message 75664.

Configuring is trivial and rather simple task... and was discussed many times.
More or less everything is about of L3 cache on CPU. Since for most home users L3 cache size is 6 or 8 MB there will be all OK until length of WU is 256K or less. Once it passed 288K performance for using 4 cores will be same as using 3 cores. With faster memory you will got faster computation but you will not bypass this problem. Using Prime95 give you option to go on without lost any performance, but with LLR is still everything more or less all known fact.

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Message 75670 - Posted: 20 Apr 2014 | 3:25:00 UTC

The new FMA3 LLR is now live on all LLR projects.
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Message 75687 - Posted: 20 Apr 2014 | 13:00:13 UTC

I've moved an off-topic discussion about BOINC and economics to this thread.
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Message 75712 - Posted: 20 Apr 2014 | 17:09:52 UTC - in response to Message 75653.

OH. You probably should have started with this part. BOINC isn't always great about properly saving runtimes when a task is suspended. I wouldn't bother trying to find an in depth scientific perfect explanation when the real answer might be as simple as, "BOINC measured it wrong."

Sorry, I didn't realise that the run times were calculated by BOINC, I assumed that it was a PrimeGrid component that did that. So I should ignore the Run and CPU times recorded against my tasks.
Thanks,
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Message 75717 - Posted: 20 Apr 2014 | 17:41:13 UTC - in response to Message 75712.

OH. You probably should have started with this part. BOINC isn't always great about properly saving runtimes when a task is suspended. I wouldn't bother trying to find an in depth scientific perfect explanation when the real answer might be as simple as, "BOINC measured it wrong."

Sorry, I didn't realise that the run times were calculated by BOINC, I assumed that it was a PrimeGrid component that did that. So I should ignore the Run and CPU times recorded against my tasks.
Thanks,
Peter


Not ignore them -- they're usually pretty good. Just not always, for reasons I don't understand.
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Message 75726 - Posted: 20 Apr 2014 | 21:19:49 UTC

My own benchmarking on 4 v 3 cores - i7-2600k @ 4.4 with 1333 mem:

job--- start--- end----- time---- per core
...274 19:28:46 19:50:22 00:21:36 00:05:24 4 cores
...791 19:35:51 19:57:32 00:21:41 00:05:25 4 cores
...277 19:40:19 20:01:33 00:21:14 00:05:19 4 cores
...275 19:41:12 20:03:22 00:22:10 00:05:33 4 cores
...659 19:50:22 20:13:35 00:23:13 00:05:48 4 cores game running
...657 19:57:32 20:26:50 00:29:18 00:07:19 4 cores game running
...683 20:01:33 20:26:57 00:25:24 00:06:21 4 cores game running
...130 20:03:22 20:26:33 00:23:11 00:05:48 4 cores game running
...491 20:13:35 20:33:56 00:20:21 00:05:05 4 cores
...415 20:26:33 20:48:05 00:21:32 00:05:23 4 cores
...413 20:26:50 20:48:24 00:21:34 00:05:23 4 cores
...414 20:26:57 20:48:35 00:21:38 00:05:25 4 cores
...393 20:33:56 20:55:34 00:21:38 00:05:25 3 cores
...337 20:48:05 21:09:32 00:21:27 00:05:22 3 cores
...347 20:48:24 21:09:51 00:21:27 00:05:22 3 cores
...348 20:48:35 21:16:21 00:27:46 00:06:56 3 cores resumed
...744 21:09:32 21:30:59 00:21:27 00:05:22 3 cores
...743 21:09:51 21:31:18 00:21:27 00:05:22 3 cores
...912 21:16:21 21:37:45 00:21:24 00:05:21 3 cores
...913 21:30:59 21:52:22 00:21:23 00:05:21 3 cores
...070 21:31:18 21:52:32 00:21:14 00:05:18 3 cores
...183 21:37:45 21:59:11 00:21:26 00:05:22 3 cores
...856 21:52:22 22:13:52 00:21:30 00:05:23 3 cores
...050 21:52:32 22:14:15 00:21:43 00:05:26 3 cores

Even if slightly quicker on 3 cores it's still only 3 at once. Virtually no difference when you graph it. So 4 cores.

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