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 Michael Goetz Volunteer moderator
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In the near future, we're moving the SR5 (LLR) project from PRPNet to BOINC, and we need to do more SR5 sieving. We have therefore re-opened SR5 Manual Sieving. Instructions can be found on the SR5 Sieve Reservations page.
This is a CPU-based sieve.
EDIT: With the start of the PRPNet June SR5 challenge, double credit for sieving is now over. Thank you for all the sieving! We now return you to your normally scheduled credit...
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Sysadm@NbgVolunteer moderator
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nice :)
will try to get another slot tomorrow, so I can use a second cpu at times
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my current lucky number: 113856050^65536 + 1
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TylerProject administrator
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Reserved 400G. 4.1% done. :) How long will double credit last? And if we reserve a range before the double credit ends, can we still get the double credit when we finish it?
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275*2^3585539+1 is prime!!! (1079358 digits)
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Michael GoetzVolunteer moderator
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Reserved 400G. 4.1% done. :) How long will double credit last? And if we reserve a range before the double credit ends, can we still get the double credit when we finish it?
As the announcement says, double credit will last until SR5 moves to BOINC.
As for reserving the range before the end, and completing it after, the answer is probably yes, although it would have to be returned reasonably soon after, and I might change my mind on this if that's abused. Don't go and reserve 5 years worth of sieving on the last day. ;)
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TylerProject administrator
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Reserved 400G. 4.1% done. :) How long will double credit last? And if we reserve a range before the double credit ends, can we still get the double credit when we finish it?
As the announcement says, double credit will last until SR5 moves to BOINC.
As for reserving the range before the end, and completing it after, the answer is probably yes, although it would have to be returned reasonably soon after, and I might change my mind on this if that's abused. Don't go and reserve 5 years worth of sieving on the last day. ;)
lol. I just wanted to be sure.. I didnt want to start a 500G task and have it not finish in time, then not get double credit :)
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275*2^3585539+1 is prime!!! (1079358 digits)
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I will help too.
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As usual, manual PSA credit is available for sieving, but there's a twist this time: to spice things up, for a limited time we're offering DOUBLE CREDIT for sieving until SR5 goes live on BOINC!
"Bribery and Corruption" can be a wonderful thing ...... on me way :) |
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Is there an estimate on how far we want to push the leading edge of the sieve before the project ends up in BOINC?
Also, does the sieve only find factors for remaining candidates, or does it cover additional numbers as well?
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TylerProject administrator
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275*2^3585539+1 is prime!!! (1079358 digits)
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JimBHonorary cruncher
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Is there an estimate on how far we want to push the leading edge of the sieve before the project ends up in BOINC?
Also, does the sieve only find factors for remaining candidates, or does it cover additional numbers as well?
The current sieve only contains k's for the remaining SR5 candidates. The 12M sieve had a few extra k's in it, now removed. I'm in the middle of coding a table showing removal density - we'll probably judge how far to sieve when that's active. |
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TylerProject administrator
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In the "near future"... Like a week? a month? a day? Or does it just depend on how fast we get done sieving? If that, until what depth (like 20000G or 50000G) are we going to sieve to?
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275*2^3585539+1 is prime!!! (1079358 digits)
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Is there an estimate on how far we want to push the leading edge of the sieve before the project ends up in BOINC?
Also, does the sieve only find factors for remaining candidates, or does it cover additional numbers as well?
The current sieve only contains k's for the remaining SR5 candidates. The 12M sieve had a few extra k's in it, now removed. I'm in the middle of coding a table showing removal density - we'll probably judge how far to sieve when that's active.
Good to know. Thanks Jim, keep us posted, until then I plan to chug through as much as possible.
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My range (16120G-16500G) is under way, and it's looking like it'll take a few days to complete - I assume this is normal? I'm fine with it, just checking, as it's running on my C2Q and I find it hard to assess whether or not it's being too slow... or simply as slow as a slow CPU can go. Again, if it's normal then fine, I'll do another range when this one has finished, if it's required.
Edit: Oh right, I have 4 instances running as recommended and some are running faster than others, looks fine to me. |
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Michael GoetzVolunteer moderator
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My range (16120G-16500G) is under way, and it's looking like it'll take a few days to complete - I assume this is normal? I'm fine with it, just checking, as it's running on my C2Q and I find it hard to assess whether or not it's being too slow... or simply as slow as a slow CPU can go. Again, if it's normal then fine, I'll do another range when this one has finished, if it's required.
Edit: Oh right, I have 4 instances running as recommended and some are running faster than others, looks fine to me.
FYI, on my stock clock Q6600 C2Q under Win7, I saw 28 minutes per G running on just 1 core. I don't know if that would slow down when using multiple instances to utilize all 4 cores.
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JimBHonorary cruncher
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A few days to finish a sieve reservation is fine. I expect this sieving effort to last for several weeks rather than a few days. |
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Thanks - I think everything is fine, the largest ETA says the 4th June, but that will come down because I'm completing the last 5% of a GFN on the same PC. Two have estimates within 2 days. I was just worried for a second that the whole thing might take 2 weeks and basically be a burden to the sieving process, but it looks like that's not the case.
Edit, having read JimB's reply - Ah right, good. |
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TylerProject administrator
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A 400G range is taking 35+ hours on my i5 2500k @ 4.5GHz (100G per core using a .bat file). Is this a normal time, pretty fast, or pretty slow?
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275*2^3585539+1 is prime!!! (1079358 digits)
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That sounds reasonable. I did a 150G range in about 7.5 hours or so on an i7 3770k @ 3.5 GHz (4 threads). That's a bit faster than your pace, but definitely comparable. |
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With the 2M-5M sieve file, I saw a 10% increase in performance. What are other other people seeing here?
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Michael GoetzVolunteer moderator
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Regarding end of the double credit promotion, we're starting an SR5 challenge on PRPNet on June 9th. The double credit will end when this challenge begins. (I'll have more information later on the exact logistics of shutting off the double credit, in particular what happens when you reserve a range during double credit but return it after the double credit ends.)
The PRPNet challenge will end on June 14th. Also on June 14th, after the challenge is over, we will be turning on SR5 on BOINC.
The day after that, on June 15th, we'll be starting an SR5 challenge on BOINC.
So, for users, that means you can be sieving SR5 now, switch to crunching SR5 LLR with PRPNet on June 9th, and finally switch to SR5 LLR on BOINC on June 14th. On June 18th, the BOINC challenge ends, and you can return to your normally scheduled crunching -- which for many will mean crunching even more SR5 tasks to get the new badge.
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My lucky number is 75898524288+1 |
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Let people reserve what they want. Have them returned by the start (or 1-2 hours before) of the BOINC challenge for double credit. If they bite off more than they can chew (crunch) by then, well, they're just out of luck.
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Largest Primes to Date:
As Double Checker: SR5 109208*5^1816285+1 Dgts-1,269,534
As Initial Finder: SR5 243944*5^1258576-1 Dgts-879,713
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For the people who want to help sieve, but find it too inconvenient to configure batch files every time I've made a simple script that will generate a zip file with the correct windows executable (32/64bit), the sieve file and a batch file to start the desired amount of instances. Also, it can do so for multiple machines at once adding a directory like the above for each machine. Simply enter the bottom and top end of the range you have reserved and want to split over all the machines :)
It can be found here
Take note
Hard coded limit of 10 machines, as each machine adds ~4MB to the filesize. Need more? Drop me a line.
You still need to reserve the range in the SR5 Reservations page and report it as completed and upload the factor files.
For now it's only windows.
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Michael GoetzVolunteer moderator
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Two comments about the batch file generator:
1) It's putting linux-style line endings in the file. I'm not sure if that will stop it from working, but if you use notepad to look at it, it will all appear on a single line.
2) Could you make the form a little more descriptive? It's not obvious, for example, that if you want to sieve at 123456G, you should enter 123456, as opposed to 123456000000000 or 123456e9.
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My lucky number is 75898524288+1 |
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Two comments about the batch file generator:
1) It's putting linux-style line endings in the file. I'm not sure if that will stop it from working, but if you use notepad to look at it, it will all appear on a single line.
I've already used it myself on Win7 multiple times and it works just fine :)
2) Could you make the form a little more descriptive? It's not obvious, for example, that if you want to sieve at 123456G, you should enter 123456, as opposed to 123456000000000 or 123456e9.
Ah yeah, fair point. Fixed it.
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ich_eben*Volunteer tester
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With the 2M-5M sieve file, I saw a 10% increase in performance. What are other other people seeing here?
yes, its roughly a 10% increase in speed on my machines too.
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Regarding end of the double credit promotion, we're starting an SR5 challenge on PRPNet on June 9th. The double credit will end when this challenge begins. (I'll have more information later on the exact logistics of shutting off the double credit, in particular what happens when you reserve a range during double credit but return it after the double credit ends.)
How about giving 1.5x normal credit for sieves that were reserved before the deadline but returned up to one day late? That would encourage people to finish their current ranges instead of aborting them to switch to the challenge. |
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Not done PRPNet for a long while, so have a "newbie" mindset as the rusty cogs start to turn on this again re PRPNet.
Re all the switch round for sr5 as we transit from current crunching to the Challenge to the final BOINC sr5 setup ......
Am I correct in saying that the line to enable in master_prpclient server config section for the challenge element is:
server=SR5:100:1:prpnet.primegrid.com:7171
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Michael GoetzVolunteer moderator
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Not done PRPNet for a long while, so have a "newbie" mindset as the rusty cogs start to turn on this again re PRPNet.
Re all the switch round for sr5 as we transit from current crunching to the Challenge to the final BOINC sr5 setup ......
Am I correct in saying that the line to enable in master_prpclient server config section for the challenge element is:
server=SR5:100:1:prpnet.primegrid.com:7171
Yes.
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My lucky number is 75898524288+1 |
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Okie Doke ...
Is the Port open for business now? Thoughts are to switch as the current one at the time finishes before the start on 9th, and then crunch away on PRPNet from that point, just roll into the Challenge as it starts.
I'll live with no double credit for a day :) |
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Michael GoetzVolunteer moderator
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Okie Doke ...
Is the Port open for business now? Thoughts are to switch as the current one at time finishes before the start on 9th, and then crunch away on PRPNet from that point, just roll into the Challenge as it starts.
I'll live with no double credit for a day :)
The prpnet port for sr5 is open now. We have not made any decision yet about when it will be closed. For a while, at least, SR5 will be running on both boinc and prpnet. (as was previously the case with PPSE, SGS, PPS sieving, and GFN524288.)
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My lucky number is 75898524288+1 |
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Will there be a SR5 sieve on PG eventually?
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Member team AUSTRALIA
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Michael GoetzVolunteer moderator
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Will there be a SR5 sieve on PG eventually?
There's been no discussion about that. Technically, it's possible, so the question is not "can we do this" but "should we do this."
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My lucky number is 75898524288+1 |
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Will there be a SR5 sieve on PG eventually?
There's been no discussion about that. Technically, it's possible, so the question is not "can we do this" but "should we do this."
If someone was able to create a gpu app then I'd think the sieving would take off. Of course there might be a gpu app and I don't know about it. |
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Michael GoetzVolunteer moderator
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Will there be a SR5 sieve on PG eventually?
There's been no discussion about that. Technically, it's possible, so the question is not "can we do this" but "should we do this."
If someone was able to create a gpu app then I'd think the sieving would take off. Of course there might be a gpu app and I don't know about it.
Even running on cpu, moving to boinc would greatly speed up sieving. The question is whether it's necessary.
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My lucky number is 75898524288+1 |
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What is the start time of the challenge on the 9th including Time Zone?
I need to work out the start time this end (I am UTC/GMT + 1hr)
Pacific time is not too bad ..... but if its EDT that's painful (0500 local here rofl) |
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What is the start time of the challenge on the 9th including Time Zone?
I need to work out the start time this end (I am UTC/GMT + 1hr)
Pacific time is not too bad ..... but if its EDT that's painful (0500 local here rofl)
Starts 9 June at 18:00 UTC
Ends 14 June at 18:00 UTC
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There's someone in our head but it's not us. |
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18:00 UTC, per this message:
http://www.primegrid.com/forum_thread.php?id=5075&nowrap=true#66226
See you there!
--Gary
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"I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together"
87*2^3496188+1 is prime! (1052460 digits)
4 is not prime! (1 digit) |
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1800 UTC ..... ahhh a civilised time ..... I shall burn additional Incense in the Project's Honour tonight :) |
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1800 UTC ..... ahhh a civilised time ..... I shall burn additional Incense in the Project's Honour tonight :)
Not a civilised time -- 0400 local here in Queensland, Aus!!!
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Member team AUSTRALIA
My lucky number is 9291*2^1085585+1 |
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Don't forget the newest sieve file (4th June) everyone... |
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Michael GoetzVolunteer moderator
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Regarding end of the double credit promotion, we're starting an SR5 challenge on PRPNet on June 9th. The double credit will end when this challenge begins. (I'll have more information later on the exact logistics of shutting off the double credit, in particular what happens when you reserve a range during double credit but return it after the double credit ends.)
Double credit will end with the first time credit is granted after June 9th 18:00 UTC. I might not grant credit immediately after that time, so there might be some leeway, but don't assume that there will be any extra time. If there is, it's a bonus.
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My lucky number is 75898524288+1 |
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If someone was able to create a gpu app then I'd think the sieving would take off. Of course there might be a gpu app and I don't know about it.
I've thought about it and actually attempted, but I ran into a few problems that make sieving on the GPU much more difficult. First, memory. Having a small number of threads sieving in the CPU is fast and doesn't require a huge amount of memory, but moving that to the GPU means requiring a lot more memory (due to more concurrent threads), typically more than 1 GB. Second, speed. There are ways other sieving methods that require far less memory. The problem with that sieving with those methods is not as "smooth" as BSGS, so some one can get the discrete log for some primes in a few iterations, but other primes can take millions of iterations to get the discrete log. I've looked at a hybrid method to get the discrete log, but have had no time to work on it. |
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I've thought about it and actually attempted, but I ran into a few problems that make sieving on the GPU much more difficult. First, memory. Having a small number of threads sieving in the CPU is fast and doesn't require a huge amount of memory, but moving that to the GPU means requiring a lot more memory (due to more concurrent threads), typically more than 1 GB. Second, speed. There are ways other sieving methods that require far less memory. The problem with that sieving with those methods is not as "smooth" as BSGS, so some one can get the discrete log for some primes in a few iterations, but other primes can take millions of iterations to get the discrete log. I've looked at a hybrid method to get the discrete log, but have had no time to work on it.
Since there are "only" 44 k's left, it would be managable to do single k per task in a GFN manner (singleN per task).
Was this also considered?
This might at least solve memory footprint limitation...I can't say about speed.
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TylerProject administrator
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Unfortunately, I am leaving town before my SR5 Sieve ranges will be complete, I will be gone for at least 2 weeks, maybe up to 3 or 4. I'll probably just set BOINC to use my cpu when its less than 20% of non-BOINC usage so then when the sieve is done i'll get tasks from BOINC to fill the gaps.
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275*2^3585539+1 is prime!!! (1079358 digits)
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Michael GoetzVolunteer moderator
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I just did the last sieving credit at the double credit rate. I gave a little extra time for stragglers running a bit late for whatever reason.
Thanks to everyone for doing a phenomenal job on the sieving. Now, onwards to back-to-back SR5 challenges!
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My lucky number is 75898524288+1 |
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We're well past 9 june by now. Double credit is definitely over. But is it still useful for us to reserve new ranges of the SR5 sieve? Even at normal credit, it seems worthwhile.
Is there an estimate on the desired range to be sieved? |
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Michael GoetzVolunteer moderator
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We're well past 9 june by now. Double credit is definitely over. But is it still useful for us to reserve new ranges of the SR5 sieve? Even at normal credit, it seems worthwhile.
Is there an estimate on the desired range to be sieved?
We're nowhere near close to the "optimal" sieving point, so we will need more sieving for the foreseeable future. The big sieving push did a great job of creating a nice starting point for crunching, but there's more to do. There's always more to do. :)
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My lucky number is 75898524288+1 |
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We're well past 9 june by now. Double credit is definitely over. But is it still useful for us to reserve new ranges of the SR5 sieve? Even at normal credit, it seems worthwhile.
Is there an estimate on the desired range to be sieved?
Although I don't know where the absolute line is, the last range I've completed was still very useful. I removed about 76 candidates per core in about 24 hours. To match that with LLR'ing, a test would have to be done in under 19 minutes. I haven't tested SR5 on my machine, but I'm expecting runtimes between 75 and 90 minutes based on what others have posted.
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OK, so I reserved some more... |
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Is there a chance/reason for this sieving to also move to BOINC? |
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Here is a "Worst case scenario" of the optimal sievedepth:
In the sieve range from p=153T to p=154T it took
1,777,317 seconds to find 770 factors, this gives a removal rate of: 2,308.203 seconds per factored candidate
A test at nMax for:
k=1396 at n=4,999,961 takes 169,604.076649 sec/LLRtest and
k=338866 at n=4,999,683 takes 242,104.089165 sec/LLRtest
this gives a total average testing time (including doublecheck of each n) of:
411,708.165814 sec/candidate n.
This means that your optimal sievedepth is:
(411,708.165814/2,308.203)*154T=27,468.579468 Trillion
or half if you only sieve for optimal first pass primality testing.
If you apply the general advice of calculating optimal sievedepth, used at Conjectures'R'US (CRUS) then your optimal sievedepth is:
19,228.005628 Trillions or 70% of your previously calculated sievedepth. The rule of sieving only to 70% is generally used, to compensate for k's not having to be tested to nMax.
Hope this was usefull to anyone.
Take care
KEP |
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Michael GoetzVolunteer moderator
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Is there a chance/reason for this sieving to also move to BOINC?
There's ALWAYS a reason for moving something to BOINC, since participation will always be much, much higher on BOINC.
We've talked a little bit about moving that sieve to BOINC. We've also talked about moving the other manual sieves to boinc. We've also talked about moving various (or all) PRPNet projects to boinc. No decisions have been made.
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JimBHonorary cruncher
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New sieve file for those doing manual sieving
http://uwin.mine.nu/sieves/sr5/sievefile/sr_5_2M-5M_52T.abcd.7z
148 sequences
3,693,758 terms |
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JimBHonorary cruncher
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Another new sieve for those of you who do manual sieving.
http://uwin.mine.nu/sieves/sr5/sievefile/sr_5_2M-5M_53T.abcd.7z
143 sequences
3,577,710 terms
And a big "Thank You" to each and every one of you. For anyone who'd like to try manual sieving (you get credits towards your PSA badge for doing so), please see http://primesearchteam.com/showthread.php?t=49. You'll need to create an account to use that message board. |
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RAC: 0
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New sieve file for those doing manual sieving
http://uwin.mine.nu/sieves/sr5/sievefile/sr_5_2M-5M_54T.abcd.7z
139 sequences
3,480,380 terms |
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JimBHonorary cruncher
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Joined: 4 Aug 11
Posts: 916
ID: 107307
Credit: 974,532,191
RAC: 0
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New sieve file for those doing manual sieving
http://uwin.mine.nu/sieves/sr5/sievefile/sr_5_2M-5M_176T.abcd.7z
137 sequences
3,397,882 terms |
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JimBHonorary cruncher
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Joined: 4 Aug 11
Posts: 916
ID: 107307
Credit: 974,532,191
RAC: 0
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New sieve file for those doing manual sieving
http://uwin.mine.nu/sieves/sr5/sievefile/sr_5_2M-5M_185T.abcd.7z
135 sequences
3,326,629 terms |
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JimBHonorary cruncher
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Joined: 4 Aug 11
Posts: 916
ID: 107307
Credit: 974,532,191
RAC: 0
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New sieve file for those doing manual sieving. For anyone who'd like to reduce the number of future LLR tests by sieving, you'll need to sign up for the Prime Search Team board http://primesearchteam.com if you haven't already and then go to the SR5 Sieve Reservation Thread to reserve a range.
http://uwin.mine.nu/sieves/sr5/sievefile/sr_5_2M-5M_209T.abcd.7z
134 sequences
3,288,978 terms |
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JimBHonorary cruncher
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Joined: 4 Aug 11
Posts: 916
ID: 107307
Credit: 974,532,191
RAC: 0
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New sieve file for those doing manual sieving:
http://uwin.mine.nu/sieves/sr5/sievefile/sr_5_2M-5M_315T.abcd.7z
134 sequences
3,205,796 terms |
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JimBHonorary cruncher
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Joined: 4 Aug 11
Posts: 916
ID: 107307
Credit: 974,532,191
RAC: 0
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New sieve file for those doing manual sieving. This sieve contains more items than before, because we're past where we sieved the previous 0.5M-2M range. So this sieve now spans 1.32M-5M (no point in sieving below our current tests).
http://uwin.mine.nu/sieves/sr5/sievefile/sr_5_1.32M-5M_1165T_133seq.abcd.7z
133 sequences
3,820,247 terms |
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