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Message boards : Sieving : PPS sieve depth

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Eliminated 3 conjecture "k"s321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (186,594)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (106,665)ESP LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (502,416)PPS LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (504,111)PSP LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (513,785)SoB LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (564,944)SR5 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,790,118)SGS LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (501,099)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (46,235)TRP LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (708,706)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (133,626)321 Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (21,527)Cullen/Woodall Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (14,729,132)PPS Sieve Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (132,786,707)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (510,317)TRP Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (620,991)AP 26/27 Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (418,876)GFN Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,795,613)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (18,329,123)
Message 57830 - Posted: 26 Sep 2012 | 14:37:28 UTC

Whats the optimal sieve depth or where we will finished it?

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321 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,009,885)Cullen LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,440,123)ESP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,008,511)PPS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,389,215)PSP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,080,442)SoB LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,143,918)SR5 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,853,162)SGS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,344,963)TRP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,140,037)Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,130,355)Cullen/Woodall Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,038,617)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (36,643,348)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,000,717)TRP Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,298,244)GFN Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (17,346,536)PSA Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,125,451)
Message 57944 - Posted: 1 Oct 2012 | 21:15:33 UTC

Good question :)

As I don't have any numbers handy that show me how long it currently takes to eliminate 1 candidate by sieving, I can't give you a really definitive answer.

However, I'm willing to hazard a guess that we won't be stopping any time soon as the lower n's with high k's still take multiple hours on recent AVX enabled CPU's whereas it only takes minutes to sieve, though it's unclear how many candidates are actually being removed per work unit.

TPTB however can probably give an answer in which actual numbers are involved. (I hope)
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321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (143,713)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (167,276)PPS LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (614,250)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,069,230)SoB LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,746,072)SR5 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (70,835)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,962,038)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,802,119)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,097,917)321 Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (116,747)Cullen/Woodall Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (44,749,048)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,238,236)PPS Sieve Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (159,894,554)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (9,389,756)TRP Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (24,791,259)AP 26/27 Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (9,763,845)GFN Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,698,230)WW (retired) Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (67,128,000)PSA Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (411,000,181)
Message 69660 - Posted: 6 Oct 2013 | 0:26:15 UTC

Michael, would you please calculate optimal sieve depths for the PPS sieve the same like you've done for the GFN Sieve?

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The "Shut up already!" badge:  This loud mouth has mansplained on the forums over 10 thousand times!  Sheesh!!!Discovered the World's First GFN-19 prime!!!Discovered 2 mega primesFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2021 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2022 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2022 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2022 Tour de Primes Mountain StageFound 1 prime in the 2023 Tour de Primes321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,949,793)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,513,946)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,150,009)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,094,541)PPS LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (24,049,916)PSP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,203,327)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (36,821,441)SR5 LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,821,256)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,818,015)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,308,522)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,390,624)321 Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,061,196)Cullen/Woodall Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (51,764,198)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,059,304)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,888,492)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (31,671,536)GFN Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (120,616,519)WW (retired) Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (88,580,000)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (13,196,884)
Message 69666 - Posted: 6 Oct 2013 | 3:24:07 UTC - in response to Message 69660.

Michael, would you please calculate optimal sieve depths for the PPS sieve the same like you've done for the GFN Sieve?


I'll leave that to others who are more familiar with it.
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Discovered 2 mega primesEliminated 6 conjecture "k"sFound 1 prime in the 2022 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2022 Tour de Primes321 LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (30,467,342)Cullen LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,171,777)ESP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (113,966)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (465,301)PPS LLR Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (203,899,792)PSP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,112,793)SoB LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,567,970)SR5 LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (59,351,953)SGS LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (86,081,633)TRP LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (86,131,776)Woodall LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (16,020,739)321 Sieve (suspended) Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (85,980,405)Cullen/Woodall Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (19,124,919)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (90,652)PPS Sieve Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (623,070,934)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (9,262,813)TRP Sieve (suspended) Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (268,260,336)AP 26/27 Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (76,313,411)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (51,635,319)WW (retired) Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (88,748,000)PSA Double Ruby: Earned 2,000,000,000 credits (2,270,259,963)
Message 69667 - Posted: 6 Oct 2013 | 3:24:35 UTC - in response to Message 69660.
Last modified: 6 Oct 2013 | 3:27:52 UTC

Whats the optimal sieve depth or where we will finished it?


PPS Sieve is one of the most worked on sub projects here.
While, at some point the sieve becomes un-optimal, there would be a massive piece of computing power lost.
Any sort of sieve depth calculation should also take in account this loss of power, as there is no gpu pps llr for people to switch to once the sieving ends.
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Discovered 1 mega prime321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,009,915)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,031,868)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,064,082)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,038,750)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,000,461)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,674,374)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (42,604,648)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,829,173)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,304,791)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,968,089)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,046,412)321 Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,057,614)Cullen/Woodall Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,209,718)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,005,451)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (52,049,707)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,341,676)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,070,804)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,742,251)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,005,964)WW (retired) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,688,000)PSA Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (728,567,693)
Message 69671 - Posted: 6 Oct 2013 | 4:09:00 UTC
Last modified: 6 Oct 2013 | 4:09:46 UTC

There will always be PPS sieving. Think about it this way:

Originally we sieved n=0-3M. I don't know if that started as manual sieving, but before I came here it was on BOINC. While that was on BOINC, at some point manual sieving was started for n=3M-6M.

When it seemed that 0-3M had been sieved far enough, sieving on 0-3M was suspended, 3M-6M moved to BOINC, and manual sieving started on 6M-9M. That's where we are right now.

What will happen next is that sieving on 3M-6M will be retired, 6M-9M will move to BOINC and 9M-12M will start on manual sieving.

I create new sieve files about once a month. At that time Lennart and I discuss whether it's time to change over yet. So far we've decided the time hasn't yet come.

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321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (143,713)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (167,276)PPS LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (614,250)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,069,230)SoB LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,746,072)SR5 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (70,835)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,962,038)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,802,119)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,097,917)321 Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (116,747)Cullen/Woodall Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (44,749,048)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,238,236)PPS Sieve Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (159,894,554)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (9,389,756)TRP Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (24,791,259)AP 26/27 Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (9,763,845)GFN Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,698,230)WW (retired) Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (67,128,000)PSA Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (411,000,181)
Message 69681 - Posted: 6 Oct 2013 | 5:57:41 UTC - in response to Message 69671.

JimB, can you please share how many factors are found on average per one PPS Sieve wu at the moment?

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Discovered 1 mega prime321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,009,915)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,031,868)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,064,082)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,038,750)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,000,461)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,674,374)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (42,604,648)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,829,173)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,304,791)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,968,089)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,046,412)321 Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,057,614)Cullen/Woodall Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,209,718)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,005,451)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (52,049,707)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,341,676)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,070,804)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,742,251)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,005,964)WW (retired) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,688,000)PSA Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (728,567,693)
Message 69689 - Posted: 6 Oct 2013 | 12:14:29 UTC - in response to Message 69681.
Last modified: 6 Oct 2013 | 12:17:24 UTC

JimB, can you please share how many factors are found on average per one PPS Sieve wu at the moment?

Short answer: 2.26 factors per workunit on average.

Better answer: Factors found is only half of the story. The percentage of those factors that result in new removals from the sieve is just as important. I don't have those numbers at my fingertips except when I'm creating sieves. I don't keep any of that data because 1) I've never had any reason to revisit it and 2) it gets outdated very quickly. The last sieves were created on September 23rd, the next ones will be near the end of October. Visiting the link shows you how many candidates are left in the RSP factor files. We don't release the PPS factor files, but the numbers are similar. Keep in mind that the PPS Sieving affects six different sieve files: PPS4M, PPS5M, PPS6M, RSP4M, RSP5M and RSP6M. Manual sieving affects the same files in the 7M-9M range (another six sieves).

I can also tell you that we're getting close to the point of changing over to the next ranges. I just don't know offhand how close right this moment.

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Discovered 1 mega primeFound 2 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2023 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2023 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2023 Tour de Primes Mountain StageFound 1 mega prime  in the 2023 Tour de Primes Mountain Stage321 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,790,287)Cullen LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,287,593)ESP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,389,823)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,056,831)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,989,590)PSP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (14,704,690)SoB LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (17,116,440)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,319,615)SGS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,413,461)TRP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,396,638)Woodall LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (13,578,731)321 Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,003,334)Cullen/Woodall Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,004,341)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,000,502)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (462,767,509)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,000,133)TRP Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,000,970)AP 26/27 Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (245,211,993)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (240,000,042)WW (retired) Double Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000,000 credits (1,100,000,000)PSA Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (200,045,839)
Message 70120 - Posted: 17 Oct 2013 | 12:05:41 UTC
Last modified: 17 Oct 2013 | 12:05:52 UTC

Hi

Interesting. Will the next range have any impact on amount of processing over time i.e RAC change?

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Discovered 1 mega prime321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,009,915)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,031,868)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,064,082)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,038,750)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,000,461)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,674,374)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (42,604,648)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,829,173)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,304,791)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,968,089)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,046,412)321 Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,057,614)Cullen/Woodall Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,209,718)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,005,451)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (52,049,707)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,341,676)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,070,804)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,742,251)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,005,964)WW (retired) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,688,000)PSA Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (728,567,693)
Message 70122 - Posted: 17 Oct 2013 | 14:36:56 UTC - in response to Message 70120.
Last modified: 17 Oct 2013 | 15:37:20 UTC

Hi

Interesting. Will the next range have any impact on amount of processing over time i.e RAC change?

I don't really know. If so, we'll make an adjustment in the credit. Remember, this has only happened once before at PrimeGrid and that was before my time.

edit: typo

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Discovered 2 mega primesFound 2 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2020 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2021 Tour de PrimesFound 3 primes in the 2022 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2023 Tour de Primes321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,685,202)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,591,847)ESP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,657,625)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,251,083)PPS LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (34,777,138)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,070,653)SoB LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,339,245)SR5 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,603,308)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,260,651)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (19,376)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,398,689)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,732,873)321 Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,915,071)Cullen/Woodall Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (9,295,736)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,461,309)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (97,461,012)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (352,129)TRP Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (776,202)AP 26/27 Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,735,087)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (52,876,582)WW (retired) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,044,000)PSA Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,154,617)
Message 72686 - Posted: 25 Jan 2014 | 21:04:14 UTC - in response to Message 70120.

Hi

Interesting. Will the next range have any impact on amount of processing over time i.e RAC change?

The first WUs will be relatively slow. Once the size of prime factors being tested gets over about 80T, the speed should jump back up close to where it was.* It won't be exactly the same, though, because there are more prime numbers to try factoring with in the 80T range than in the ~350P range where we are now. I estimate WUs will be about 26% longer at that point.

* This doesn't apply to the CPU apps, which will be much slower to come back to their current speed.
____________

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