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All the LLRs show a spot where if your found a Prime you will know. Even the Sieves show a status area. If you find a GFN what indication is there besides a news article which could take a while to be posted? |
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 Michael Goetz Volunteer moderator
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All the LLRs show a spot where if your found a Prime you will know. Even the Sieves show a status area. If you find a GFN what indication is there besides a news article which could take a while to be posted?
/agree
However, rest assured, any primes found on the BOINC GFN projects will be not be stealthy.
You'll know. I'll know. EVERYONE will know, and pretty quickly. Anything found will be no worse than the largest known GFN prime and the 13th largest known prime of any kind. That will get some pretty immediate reactions from everyone involved.
Should it show up automatically on the web pages? Yes, it should. In practice, however, it's going to be such a big event that anyone fortunate enough to find a prime will most likely read about it on the boards or in their email or PMs before they get a chance to look at the result pages.
There's one other thing: right now, you CAN see what the results are if you want to do so, but it requires a little bit of manual effort.
The results are suppressed to prevent someone other than yourself from seeing the results, but there's no need to prevent you from seeing your own results. If you wish, the result (prime/composite) is shown in a file called "genefer.log" in the slot directory where Genefer was running. However, this file is erased after the results are uploaded back to PrimeGrid.
If you wish, you can set "Network Activity Suspended" on the Boinc Manager Activity menu before the WU completes. Once the WU is finished, read genefer.log to see the result. Then enable network communications again to allow the upload.
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Crun-chiVolunteer tester
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Michael
So in another words you say that someone can steal prime?
Or why another MEGA project are not protected in same way?
If I ( hypothetically spoken) found GENEFER prime right now and report it, how anyone else can get benefit of that event. My computer reported prime, then prime is gong to validation . In any case someone else is still "behind" me ( in matter of time), right?
Since it is clear that I dont fully understand why, can you explain in few more words?
Thanks!
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92*10^1585996-1 NEAR-REPDIGIT PRIME :) :) :)
4 * 650^498101-1 CRUS PRIME
2022202116^131072+1 GENERALIZED FERMAT
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Michael GoetzVolunteer moderator
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Michael
So in another words you say that someone can steal prime?
Or why another MEGA project are not protected in same way?
If I ( hypothetically spoken) found GENEFER prime right now and report it, how anyone else can get benefit of that event. My computer reported prime, then prime is gong to validation . In any case someone else is still "behind" me ( in matter of time), right?
Since it is clear that I dont fully understand why, can you explain in few more words?
Thanks!
I think you may have partly misunderstood what I said.
I *do* think the result (prime|composite) should show up on the WU page, the same as it does with all the LLR WUs. This shows up AFTER the double check is returned and the results are validated.
My comments about intentionally suppressing the calculation result had to do with showing the results in the individual result page in the stderr output. That output is visible before the entire WU is complete and verified. There's two potential disadvantages to having the result displayed there, which is why it's no longer shown in the stderr output.
1) To discourage cherry picking. I get a task for a WU where there's already a completed result, and I see, by looking at his stderr output, that the number is composite. I don't want to spend time double checking a composite result, so I abort the WU and get another one, hoping that the next WU may be a prime.
2) To prevent the possibility of a third party seeing that you discovered a prime number and reporting it themselves to the top 5K prime pages list before your wingman completes the double check of the prime. PrimeGrid won't report the prime until the double check is complete.
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Crun-chiVolunteer tester
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Thanks!
Now , all is clear!
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92*10^1585996-1 NEAR-REPDIGIT PRIME :) :) :)
4 * 650^498101-1 CRUS PRIME
2022202116^131072+1 GENERALIZED FERMAT
Proud member of team Aggie The Pew. Go Aggie! |
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So are BOINC found GFN not going to be figured into the Top Prime Finders scores? |
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Michael GoetzVolunteer moderator
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So are BOINC found GFN not going to be figured into the Top Prime Finders scores?
They should. Are they not showing up there?
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They should. Are they not showing up there?
Looking on the list, they should be pretty high ranking.
The announcements of the two World Record GFN finders/double checkers I do not find either of them in the list. I checked PSA and I do not find either of the two recent announced primes, so I think they were done in BOINC. Hard to tell as the announcements do not state which site found them.
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Michael GoetzVolunteer moderator
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n=19 is not currently be crunched on PRPNet, so all three of those are BOINC. Those three should be the three largest prime numbers in that table.
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n=19 is not currently be crunched on PRPNet, so all three of those are BOINC. Those three should be the three largest prime numbers in that table.
And yet they are not, at least checking the primes of the top few users on the list. I assume this is just an oversight or programming error. Or, have they been actively not-listed, because Genefer is just PRP and not a proof? (though I know the odds of a false positive are sub-microscopically small)
--Gary |
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Michael GoetzVolunteer moderator
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n=19 is not currently be crunched on PRPNet, so all three of those are BOINC. Those three should be the three largest prime numbers in that table.
And yet they are not, at least checking the primes of the top few users on the list. I assume this is just an oversight or programming error. Or, have they been actively not-listed, because Genefer is just PRP and not a proof? (though I know the odds of a false positive are sub-microscopically small)
--Gary
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Perhaps my post was not clear, or else I am misunderstanding the rather terse response. I agree that the GFN primes should be the largest in that table, but the largest I could find there were a 321 prime (found by lostboy) and a couple of Cullens (from Spinner and Gesker).
The "table" in question is http://www.primegrid.com/primes/?section=topusers&by=score
--Gary |
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And yet they are not, at least checking the primes of the top few users on the list. I assume this is just an oversight or programming error. Or, have they been actively not-listed, because Genefer is just PRP and not a proof? (though I know the odds of a false positive are sub-microscopically small)
--Gary
Regular PPS primes are listed *after* they are reported and confirmed by Chris's Top5000 primes DB.
I think same should apply for GFN.
I already asked back in Ferbuary: "Primes found in GFN BOINC subproject are not listed under user account and they do not count in Top Prime finders."
John replayed: "The fact that it's not listed under prime finders is simply a maintenance issue. GFN work is pulled from a separate table than LLR and will require additional coding to be included into the primes table.
For now, I'll see about manually updating the table. In time, the prime will appear."
Well, looks like this slipped under the radar.
And there is still a long-lasting wish same would apply for PRPNet.
For example there 500+ days ago.
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Are the GFNs ever going to be added to the Top Prime Finders list?
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Michael GoetzVolunteer moderator
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Are the GFNs ever going to be added to the Top Prime Finders list?
That would be nice, especially since the four us who have found primes at N=524288 would instantly become the top four people on the list. :)
Scott Brown is currently the top prime finder with a combined score of 17,876.58. Mine is the smallest of those four primes at N=524288 and that prime has a score of 21,148.92. The double checkers for the top 3 would end up being in positions 6, 7, and 8 right behind Scott.
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HonzaVolunteer moderator
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Are the GFNs ever going to be added to the Top Prime Finders list?
That would be nice, especially since the four us who have found primes at N=524288 would instantly become the top four people on the list. :)
And that would push me out of Top10...again :-)
Still I wish all PG prime would be added to Top Prime Finders list...
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Michael GoetzVolunteer moderator
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Are the GFNs ever going to be added to the Top Prime Finders list?
That would be nice, especially since the four us who have found primes at N=524288 would instantly become the top four people on the list. :)
And that would push me out of Top10...again :-)
Still I wish all PG prime would be added to Top Prime Finders list...
Yeah, I've been pondering possible ways to do that since last night. The real problem is mapping the usernames and team names from what people provide on PRPNet to the IDs used in BOINC. That's probably why it never happened before.
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HonzaVolunteer moderator
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Yeah, I've been pondering possible ways to do that since last night. The real problem is mapping the usernames and team names from what people provide on PRPNet to the IDs used in BOINC. That's probably why it never happened before.
We are already trying to establish such mapping when granting PRPNet credit.
Granting credit is (semi)manual effort on regular basis for dozens of users.
Mapping primes found on PRPNet is seldom event for even less users.
Were those GFN numbers were found only via PRPnet? Or both BOINC and PRPNet?
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My stats |
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Are the GFNs ever going to be added to the Top Prime Finders list?
That would be nice, especially since the four us who have found primes at N=524288 would instantly become the top four people on the list. :)
And that would push me out of Top10...again :-)
Still I wish all PG prime would be added to Top Prime Finders list...
Yeah, I've been pondering possible ways to do that since last night. The real problem is mapping the usernames and team names from what people provide on PRPNet to the IDs used in BOINC. That's probably why it never happened before.
What about GFN primes (PRPs) found on Boinc? That should be easy (or easier) :)
On the other hand, adding GFN primes found on PRPNet no the Top Prime Finders List would be a little unfair if primes found on other PRPNet subprojects were not added to the list too. The latter should be a huge feat, though, so good luck either way.
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676754^262144+1 is prime |
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Michael GoetzVolunteer moderator
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We are already trying to establish such mapping when granting PRPNet credit.
Granting credit is (semi)manual effort on regular basis for dozens of users.
And I'm the one who does that and has the mapping. :)
Were those GFN numbers were found only via PRPnet? Or both BOINC and PRPNet?
Counting just n=18 an n=19, there's 5 found on BOINC (2 at 18 and 3 at 19) and 5 that were found on PRPNet (4 at 18 and 1 at 19). And there's thousands of other PRPNet primes that should be in there too.
I think I'm the only one who can make this happen since neither the servers nor any other person has the username mapping. I'm looking into it, but that's not a promise that anything will happen. There may be obstacles that can't be overcome.
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Michael GoetzVolunteer moderator
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By the way, the reason that the GFN BOINC primes don't show up in the prime table or the user stats page is because there's sufficient differences between the way GFN and all LLR projects are handled internally so that the mechanism for automatically adding primes to those pages doesn't work.
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I was only thinking the BOINC ones. We haven't had PPRNet ones before why start now? They have their own stats site. I just figured if they are found on BOINC, they should be included on the same stats pages.
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My lucky numbers are 121*2^4553899-1 and 3756801695685*2^666669±1
My movie https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/502242 |
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