| Author |
Message |
|---|
|
|
|
Welcome to the Dog Days of Summer
A 2 day Challenge is being offered on PrimeGrid's Proth Prime Search (LLR) application. To participate in the Challenge, please select only the The Proth Prime Search (LLR) project in your PrimeGrid preferences section. The challenge will begin 26 Aug 2011 18:00 UTC and end 28 Aug 2011 18:00 UTC. Application builds are available for Linux 32 bit, Windows 32 bit and MacIntel. These applications will be sent to 64 bit clients. As with all LLR application projects, there is no advantage of 64 bit over 32 bit.
ATTENTION: The primality program LLR is CPU intensive; so, it is vital to have a stable system with good cooling. It does not tolerate "even the slightest of errors." Please see this post for more details on how you can "stress test" your computer. WU's will take ~10 min. on fast/newer computers and 20+ min. on slower/older computers. If your computer is highly overclocked, please consider "stress testing" it. Sieving is an excellent alternative for computers that are not able to LLR. :)
Please, please, please make sure your machines are up to the task.
Time zone converter:
The World Clock - Time Zone Converter
NOTE: The countdown clock on the front page uses the host computer time. Therefore, if your computer time is off, so will the countdown clock. For precise timing, use the UTC Time in the data section to the left of the countdown clock.
Scoring Information
Scores will be kept for individuals and teams. Only work units issued AFTER 26 Aug 2011 18:00 UTC and received BEFORE 28 Aug 2011 18:00 UTC will be considered for credit. We will use the "prime score" method which is based on the n value (k*b^n-1) to score the challenge. The only difference is that the primary and double checker of a WU will receive the same score.
Therefore, each completed WU will earn a unique score based on its n value. The higher the n, the higher the score. This is different than BOINC cobblestones! A quorum of 2 is NOT needed to award Challenge score - i.e. no double checker. Therefore, each returned result will earn a Challenge score. Please note that if the result is eventually declared invalid, the score will be removed.
For details on how the score is calculated, please see this thread.
At the Conclusion of the Challenge
We kindly ask users "moving on" to ABORT their WU's instead of DETACHING, RESETTING, or PAUSING.
ABORTING WU's allows them to be recycled immediately; thus a much faster "clean up" to the end of an LLR Challenge. DETACHING, RESETTING, and PAUSING WU's causes them to remain in limbo until they EXPIRE. Therefore, we must wait until WU's expire to send them out to be completed.
Please consider either completing what's in the queue or ABORTING them. Thank you. :)
Additional Information
Proth Number (Wolfram MathWorld)
Proth Number (Wiki)
Proth Number (The Prime Glossary)
What is LLR?
The Lucas-Lehmer-Riesel (LLR) test is a primality test for numbers of the form N = k*2^n - 1, with 2^n > k. Also, LLR is a program developed by Jean Penne that can run the LLR-tests. It includes the Proth test to perform +1 tests and PRP to test non base 2 numbers. |
|
|
|
|
|
Hi,
im a newbie
Have 2 questions :
1) can you repost the link for Stress testing s/w
2) does it require additional s/w download - or just the same old boinc running ( i.e. will boinc fetch the execs automatically ? - like in the case of 'NORMAL' prime searches ) |
|
|
|
|
Hi,
im a newbie
Have 2 questions :
1) can you repost the link for Stress testing s/w
2) does it require additional s/w download - or just the same old boinc running ( i.e. will boinc fetch the execs automatically ? - like in the case of 'NORMAL' prime searches )
I'm not a PrimeGrid official but
0) Welcome aboard. Have fun.
1) Prime95 is what are thinking of: http://www.playtool.com/pages/prime95/prime95.html
2) Same old BOINC but it is only Proth Prime Searches (not sieves) that count. So you need to change your preferences to ensure you get them and preferably them alone. Also the only w/u which count for the challenge have to be downloaded completed and returned all within the challenge period. So something downloaded 2 seconds before the start does not count nor does something returned 1 second after the close.
3) Do you like rats? :) (I feel Airplane coming on here.) Whether or not I know just the team for you.
Cheers!
T
____________
Oh Bondage? Up Yours.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogypBUCb7DA
 |
|
|
|
|
|
Finally I realise why I've had issues with my laptops and cooling!
I keep an eye on their CPU temperatures with Core Temp, but my more stable computer at work has been somewhat iffy recently, thought it was the (slight) heat weather wise, but now I have an answer.
Oh, and I will be participating in a challenge for the first time too. Someone's got to prop the rest of you guys up ;) |
|
|
|
|
Finally I realise why I've had issues with my laptops and cooling!
I keep an eye on their CPU temperatures with Core Temp, but my more stable computer at work has been somewhat iffy recently, thought it was the (slight) heat weather wise, but now I have an answer.
Oh, and I will be participating in a challenge for the first time too. Someone's got to prop the rest of you guys up ;)
Here's a thought... take a cookie sheet turn it upside down and put your laptop on it. We've even heard of using a water bed as a cooling platform :)
Of course I'm not sure what your co-workers would say about the cookie sheet.
Good luck in the challenge and if you are so inclined, we always have a spot open at AtP.
____________
@AggieThePew
 |
|
|
|
|
|
I was wondering if it's possible to make some sort of a prime-counter during the challenge, don't know if it's easy to make but I think it would be a great feature... |
|
|
|
|
ATTENTION: The primality program LLR is CPU intensive; so, it is vital to have a stable system with good cooling. It does not tolerate "even the slightest of errors." Please see this post for more details on how you can "stress test" your computer. WU's will take ~10 min. on fast/newer computers and 20+ min. on slower/older computers. If your computer is highly overclocked, please consider "stress testing" it. Sieving is an excellent alternative for computers that are not able to LLR. :)
Does this mean that credit for PPS (Sieve) will count toward the challenge like the credit for PPS (LLR) will? I ask because of the last sentence of the quote. |
|
|
|
|
ATTENTION: The primality program LLR is CPU intensive; so, it is vital to have a stable system with good cooling. It does not tolerate "even the slightest of errors." Please see this post for more details on how you can "stress test" your computer. WU's will take ~10 min. on fast/newer computers and 20+ min. on slower/older computers. If your computer is highly overclocked, please consider "stress testing" it. Sieving is an excellent alternative for computers that are not able to LLR. :)
Does this mean that credit for PPS (Sieve) will count toward the challenge like the credit for PPS (LLR) will? I ask because of the last sentence of the quote.
No.
____________
|
|
|
 Sysadm@Nbg Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester
Project scientist
Send message
Joined: 5 Feb 08
Posts: 1135
ID: 18646
Credit: 373,987,551
RAC: 163,322
                   
|
|
today it is a Dog Day of Summer in Germany - so get ready to rumble ...
... tomorrow automn is reaching
____________
Sysadm@Nbg
my current lucky number: 3299*2^1441747+1
PSA-PRPNet-Stats-URL: http://u-g-f.de/PRPNet/
 |
|
|
|
|
Here's a thought... take a cookie sheet turn it upside down....
I found a much better way to keep my (6) laptops cool...
Simply open them up about 45-degrees and stand them up so the fan at the side is blowing upwards! (u get quite good at working with them sideways after a while!!)
- if the supply-cord is in the way, u may have to do a creative balancing-act!
I've checked with tthrottle, and this is much better than any sort of bottom-cooling (except for forced-fans) - Because Laptops suck air in from the bottom and the hot underside creates a 'pool' of hot-air between cookie-sheet and laptop which then gets sucked in!
Good Luck with the Challenge!
____________
 |
|
|
|
|
|
Can someone please explain the point of running a challenge on short workunits if the servers are totally incapable of sustaining the workload? |
|
|
|
|
|
Allow larger cache, please - otherwise I'll need to babysit uploads and downloads at all my cores.
1 cruncher finished allowed WUs, gotten some new WU but unable to download.
with sufficient WUs, I can disable network communication and go sleep for 6 hrs and won't hit PG-server for that duration.
10mins/WU 8cores = 6 cycles per hour
(8cores x 6) x 6hours = 288 WUs.
450secs/WU 4cores = 8 cycles per hour
(4cores x 8) x 6hours = 192 WUs
At present max 30 WUs, transfer back off is longer than cache.
Thanks.
terencewee*
Sicituradastra. |
|
|
|
|
|
Any admins out there? You might at least give us the courtesy of a reply. This is a complete farce - all of my machines are out of work units yet again, most likely because I'm only able to download 5 at a time before hitting the "too many workunits" error. That's really useful on pcs that are completing 12 every 10 minutes. |
|
|
|
|
|
It is a race or a nursery school ? |
|
|
mfbabb2Volunteer tester
Send message
Joined: 10 Oct 08
Posts: 510
ID: 30360
Credit: 6,359,467
RAC: 13,155
                  
|
|
I think we killed the server (at the very least, it is on life support)!
____________
Murphy (AtP)
 |
|
|
mackerelVolunteer tester
Send message
Joined: 2 Oct 08
Posts: 1909
ID: 29980
Credit: 253,074,868
RAC: 141,524
                      
|
|
I did wonder how many computers might have hit it at once right at the start...
Right now things seem semi-ok for me. One system of mine went out of work for an hour as it choked not being able to upload, which meant it also couldn't get new units. I did turn off one laptop, so that's a little less stress for everyone. Fan was too noisy!
Bedtime soon for me. I hope computers wont be idle in the morning... |
|
|
|
|
It is a race or a nursery school ?
This is challenge, and you know what that word mean, right? So admins must do all they have to give as as many WU as can. And also, I agree, give us more cache...
____________
9 *10^1009567-1 REPDIGIT MEGA PRIME :) :) :)
57*2^3339932-1 MEGA PRIME :)
10994460^131072+1 GENERALIZED FERMAT :)
31*332^367560+1 CRUS PRIME :)
Proud member of team Aggie The Pew. Go Aggie! |
|
|
|
|
I think we killed the server (at the very least, it is on life support)!
Indeed but I think we need to bear in mind that this is very much a not for profit outfit. It surely can't exist and thrive without the donation of CPU cycles by participants who spend lots of money to get lots of credit. BUT the hardware and running costs are met by donations and by the admins putting their hands in their pockets. The admins also give up a lot of time and effort to support the project and I'm not sure we help by venting.
I agree it'd be lovely if the project had the hardware to easily cope with spikes in demand but it doesn't.
I don't have a point.
____________
Oh Bondage? Up Yours.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogypBUCb7DA
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Tim: I do get *fun-factor* out of crunching for PG and am impressed by PG admin, as this project is very stable. But...
The challenge was issued by PG.
The previous PPS-LLR challenge allowed larger cache and went smooth. This max 30+ WU (and slow gradual increase) caused some crunchers to dry up, waste electricity and made some competitive participants... more "competitive". :)
Perhaps if this ceiling is brought higher... faster.
Gonna go sleep - hope to wake up to well fed cores.
terencewee*
Sicituradastra. |
|
|
|
|
|
I've much sympathy with what you say terencewee*. The flag I carry is not for PrimeGrid but for a dead white rat.
I don't know enough about the technical aspects to know if what you say is right.
I do know a little bit about the management of expectations and perhaps the project might in the future find even better ways of satisfying the needs of the users without whom this project would not exist.
Once the challenge is over we can perhaps discuss with the admins how to make a better experience.
Cheers!
____________
Oh Bondage? Up Yours.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogypBUCb7DA
|
|
|
|
|
It is a race or a nursery school ?
Good morning Sunshine! ;-p
;-)))
____________
   |
|
|
|
|
|
@Tim:
Perhaps.
Good to know you agree feedback is important for improvements; either during or after.
To bed!
terencewee*
Sicituradastra. |
|
|
|
|
I agree it'd be lovely if the project had the hardware to easily cope with spikes in demand but it doesn't.
If that's the case then they shouldn't run challenges that they can't cope with. ie stick to the longer workunits.
|
|
|
|
|
|
The SG challenge had short work units, and everything seemed to go fine there? |
|
|
mfbabb2Volunteer tester
Send message
Joined: 10 Oct 08
Posts: 510
ID: 30360
Credit: 6,359,467
RAC: 13,155
|
I agree it'd be lovely if the project had the hardware to easily cope with spikes in demand but it doesn't.
If that's the case then they shouldn't run challenges that they can't cope with. ie stick to the longer workunits.
But since they would like for us to focus on PPS LLR, why not have it as a Challenge? I, for one, can live with the occassionally overloaded server.
____________
Murphy (AtP)
|
|
|
DoESVolunteer tester
Send message
Joined: 11 Oct 08
Posts: 779
ID: 30382
Credit: 74,302,485
RAC: 0
          
|
|
I'd leavea comment but I can't even get to this page
____________
Member of AtP
"If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?"
Albert Einstein
 |
|
|
quelSend message
Joined: 21 Nov 10
Posts: 86
ID: 73895
Credit: 408,095,452
RAC: 83,930
          
|
I agree it'd be lovely if the project had the hardware to easily cope with spikes in demand but it doesn't.
If that's the case then they shouldn't run challenges that they can't cope with. ie stick to the longer workunits.
It is hard to know what you can and cannot cope with until you are pushed to the max. I think the admins decide to run a challenge only if they believe the infrastructure is up to the task. (Your comment makes it sound like they knew this was going to happen but proceeded anyway).
The BOINC project I admin was officially listed just over 2 weeks ago. We had been running near 3 years before that time. However, our computational power tripled in 4 days and the server was not up to the challenge. So, you learn, improve scripts/code, improve hardware, etc. but it's not easy to simulate a massive distributed load to plan in advanced (at least not without major resources to have equipment to even run simulations).
Keep in mind the majority of BOINC projects are run entirely on donations and volunteers so they can't just call up an extra 10 programmers and 10 sysadmins to add to a solution. The lack of admin response here is a good thing - it means they are scrambling to do whatever they can to resolve issues. There is no point for them to post that there are issues - we all know that. So for now everyone should be patient.
I offer my deepest thanks to those working on any aspect of the project and wish everyone success in challenges, crunching, server admin work, programming, etc. |
|
|
mfbabb2Volunteer tester
Send message
Joined: 10 Oct 08
Posts: 510
ID: 30360
Credit: 6,359,467
RAC: 13,155
|
|
Amen!
____________
Murphy (AtP)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Looks to me like they're slowing down the uploads, and that's NEARLY allowing them to keep up with the demand for more workunits.
Something for the developers to think about - offer a new type of the Proth LLR workunits, with perhaps 10 times as many numbers to check in each workunit. I'd expect the users with slow computers to want that type of workunit to be optional, and not enabled by default. This should allow fewer connections to the server to send and receive the same amount of work. |
|
|
|
|
|
My compliments to ALL of you for doing such a WONDERFUL JOB!!!!!
I like the effectiveness of your local wu cache management!!!!!
It gave me WUs 2 minutes AFTER the challenge began AND it gave me a bunch.....
In a word.... OUTSTANDING!
Great management of a huge task with limited staff and hardware resources!
I wish you all the best (in getting rest and in the success of the challenge).
Cheers,
Chuck
____________
|
|
|
|
|
|
I'm sitting here with 30 wu's that can not be uploaded and boinc is saying its delaying request for 6 hours. 6 hours I cant upload or download any wu's. Well good luck with the race everyone. 6 hours with no wu's is unacceptable in my book.
I'm not upset, I'll still be crunching Primegrid, but I'm off to another project till the race is over.
cheers |
|
|
Scott BrownVolunteer moderator
Project administrator
Volunteer tester
Project scientist
Send message
Joined: 17 Oct 05
Posts: 1713
ID: 1178
Credit: 5,151,583,202
RAC: 1,872,765
                              
|
|
Well, I knew that this was going to be an annoying challenge for me (my wife had oral surgery today keeping me from an active start and several machines are not quite back to proper settings given some end of the summer OS re-installs/upgrades), but wow was this one bad. All of my machines (based on the numerous logs I have looked at this evening) were out of work for long segments of time...indeed, hours on some. Worse, yet, the repeated unfilled calls for work seem to have screwed up the network settings on several machines such that some remote boxes have still not requested and gotten work (looks like a router issue might have been triggered since I was able to fix a handful that could be gotten to by adding the http 1.0 line to the cc_config file).
Those who know me here at PG know that I am not someone who complains constantly about problems when/if things do not go my way...and the admins here know that I have tremendous respect for them and the work they do, so I hope my following comment will be considered with that in mind.
Previously, one of the PG challenges was canceled and rescheduled when server issues/overload occurred. PG has been stellar (at least in my opinion) in working through challenges when faced with problems, but there comes a point when the problems cannot be fairly addressed while continuing the challenge itself. There is no shame in deciding to redo one at a later date, especially when challenges normally go so well. Please note that I am not calling for this particular challenge to be canceled. Rather, I would ask that PG admin come up with some decision process that would allow them to call off challenges when/if such widespread problems occur.
____________
141941*2^4299438-1 is prime!
 |
|
|
|
|
|
Most short wu challenges have seen these kind of problems. This one might be slightly worse but it's not that big a difference. The main problem is the short wus. This combined with the low wu limits makes things worse.
If you are going to continue to run challenges with short tasks, I suggest you make the wus longer by combining several tasks in one wu. I know it's some work, but so is babysitting an overloaded server.
When it comes to running out of work, we are all in the same boat. While there may be some randomness, most of us have problems getting work from the overloaded server, so we all run dry some periods of time.
It won't be much of a difference rescheduling the challenge unless you address the problems with the large amount of short wus. Sure, you might get fewer participants in a rerun (and survive that way), but then you have kind of missed the point with a challenge.
/Snf
|
|
|
|
|
|
Look at it this way, the more we do of these short work units, the longer they will get...
____________
 |
|
|
|
|
I'm sitting here with 30 wu's that can not be uploaded and boinc is saying its delaying request for 6 hours. 6 hours I cant upload or download any wu's. Well good luck with the race everyone. 6 hours with no wu's is unacceptable in my book.
I'm not upset, I'll still be crunching Primegrid, but I'm off to another project till the race is over.
cheers
Don't blame PG for this problem, it's BOINC trying to cope with a short outage.
You can tell your BOINC clients to retry the upload and once complete, will download more work...
____________
|
|
|
|
|
It is hard to know what you can and cannot cope with until you are pushed to the max. I think the admins decide to run a challenge only if they believe the infrastructure is up to the task. (Your comment makes it sound like they knew this was going to happen but proceeded anyway).
The BOINC project I admin was officially listed just over 2 weeks ago. We had been running near 3 years before that time. However, our computational power tripled in 4 days and the server was not up to the challenge. So, you learn, improve scripts/code, improve hardware, etc. but it's not easy to simulate a massive distributed load to plan in advanced (at least not without major resources to have equipment to even run simulations).
Keep in mind the majority of BOINC projects are run entirely on donations and volunteers so they can't just call up an extra 10 programmers and 10 sysadmins to add to a solution. The lack of admin response here is a good thing - it means they are scrambling to do whatever they can to resolve issues. There is no point for them to post that there are issues - we all know that. So for now everyone should be patient.
I offer my deepest thanks to those working on any aspect of the project and wish everyone success in challenges, crunching, server admin work, programming, etc.
I agree with almost all you say quel, especially the last sentence. I do suggest however that a warning that there might be outages before the challenge started (and I think I might envisage how a positive spin could have been put on it) and a couple of minutes from an admin to post saying something about being overwhelmed possibly with a smattering of technical detail could have calmed some of the more excitable.
In previous challenges I think the problem was in part caused by the league table scoffing up resources. I notice it has been disabled this time. If that is the problem perhaps it is possible to sub that service out to a team? I don't know if that is technically feasible.
____________
Oh Bondage? Up Yours.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogypBUCb7DA
|
|
|
|
|
|
Is there a status update on the challenge?
Scoring lists (participant/teams) have not been updated in a while...
Have read about some the difficulties/server loads... but nothing on the challenge itself.
Good luck to the (sys)admins!!!! |
|
|
|
|
|
Is it normal to not have any of my WUs being validated?
http://www.primegrid.com/results.php?hostid=206162
It seems like the pending credit justs keep adding up....
____________
1281*2^594565+1
2393323632147*2^1290000-1 |
|
|
|
|
Is there a status update on the challenge?
Scoring lists (participant/teams) have not been updated in a while...
The links to the challenge statistics at BOINCstats:
Challenge statistics for teams
Challenge statistics for users
____________
 |
|
|
|
|
Is it normal to not have any of my WUs being validated?
http://www.primegrid.com/results.php?hostid=206162
It seems like the pending credit justs keep adding up....
Yes. that is case for me too. But I hope that once challenge is finished WU will be validated ASAP since WU need only one computer to be validated. So just sit and wait :)
P.S some WU need two comp to be validated, so patience is all you need :)
____________
9 *10^1009567-1 REPDIGIT MEGA PRIME :) :) :)
57*2^3339932-1 MEGA PRIME :)
10994460^131072+1 GENERALIZED FERMAT :)
31*332^367560+1 CRUS PRIME :)
Proud member of team Aggie The Pew. Go Aggie! |
|
|
[DPC]CharleyVolunteer moderator
Project scientist
Send message
Joined: 15 Apr 11
Posts: 803
ID: 95137
Credit: 94,979,517
RAC: 0
      
|
|
Yes it looks like they've halted validation. I guess to ease the burden on the servers, which seems to be working as I'm now getting units without problems. |
|
|
|
|
|
Stats also hanging around and awaiting an update ;) |
|
|
quelSend message
Joined: 21 Nov 10
Posts: 86
ID: 73895
Credit: 408,095,452
RAC: 83,930
|
Stats also hanging around and awaiting an update ;)
2 minutes after the last stats update total chaos broke out...correlation != causation...but I think they aren't taking any chances. |
|
|
[DPC]CharleyVolunteer moderator
Project scientist
Send message
Joined: 15 Apr 11
Posts: 803
ID: 95137
Credit: 94,979,517
RAC: 0
|
|
That makes sense, no validation means no new points, no new points means it's pointless (-.-) to update stats ;) |
|
|
|
|
That makes sense, no validation means no new points, no new points means it's pointless (-.-) to update stats ;)
Validation points = PG PPS-LLR sub-project points.
Challenge points are awarded separately; unless WUs are invalid - in this case you don't get challenge points.
terencewee*
Sicituradastra. |
|
|
|
|
|
I would like to thank our host of this challenge - Thank You!
40 WUs made a difference - woke up to fed cores, all crunchers.
Stats update frequency @15mins intervals are less important - feeding us WUs is.
Longer intervals of an hour or three would be appreciated but not necessary. This will allow participants to know how we are doing and react accordingly.
Thank you again.
terencewee*
Sicituradastra. |
|
|
|
|
|
In principle, is the Challenge worthless without statistics. Do I count for the current provider, do I count for the project? No info of the project manager. I am for abnormal termination. |
|
|
|
|
|
If everything is redirected to the validation, the user / team-stats-sectoral relief and can be fixed for new updates. perhaps a project manager can write something here? This is a guessing game, which must also have an explanation! Otherwise we are all mad here.
Crazy Dog
Crazy Summer
Crazy Cheallenge
____________
|
|
|
|
|
|
Как всегда на коротких заданиях получается полная хуйня. Организации текущего челленджа абсолютный незачёт! К бениной маме пропадает всякое желание учавствовать в подобных соревнованиях!!! |
|
|
|
|
Как всегда на коротких заданиях получается полная хуйня. Организации текущего челленджа абсолютный незачёт! К бениной маме пропадает всякое желание учавствовать в подобных соревнованиях!!!
YES, but in english, we know, then what you said.
all Crazy, I go !
____________
|
|
|
STE\/EVolunteer tester
Send message
Joined: 10 Aug 05
Posts: 555
ID: 103
Credit: 3,587,507,738
RAC: 0
     
|
|
Looks like the GPU Wu's haven't been Validating for quite awhile now too so we all get to enjoy the Challenge ... :/
____________
|
|
|
BiBiVolunteer tester
Send message
Joined: 6 Mar 10
Posts: 151
ID: 56425
Credit: 34,275,117
RAC: 0
       
|
Как всегда на коротких заданиях получается полная хуйня. Организации текущего челленджа абсолютный незачёт! К бениной маме пропадает всякое желание учавствовать в подобных соревнованиях!!!
Great work google translate: "As always in short jobs get full garbage. Organization of this Challenge absolute fail! By Benin mom lost all desire to participate in such competitions!" |
|
|
|
|
|
@AriZonaFan*:
Google Translate is our friend. :-P~~~
In English:
As always in short jobs get full garbage. Organization of this Challenge absolute fail! By Benin mom lost all desire to participate in such competitions!
The Chinese translation is more entertaining:
由于在短作业总是充满垃圾。组织这一挑战绝对失败！贝宁妈妈失去了所有希望参加这样的比赛！
terencewee*
Sicituradastra.
edit: @BiBi: You beat me to it! :D |
|
|
|
|
Stats also hanging around and awaiting an update ;)
Right now - We are all doing just that - ..........hanging......................... ;-p
Where is the responsible staff? Helloooooooooo! ;-)
As mentioned in the other thread - about the long-time missing updates
for the Previous challenge.. it didnt look like it was taken too serious from
the project`s side.. I see many of you want to say they`re doing a good job -
but even if this project is running well most of the time - this situation shows
Something is Not working at all. - and communication is totally missing also.
That makes it even worse. So admins../staff - please show up!
As a coconut Im ready to fall down in someones head. Its not funny.
____________
|
|
|
BiBiVolunteer tester
Send message
Joined: 6 Mar 10
Posts: 151
ID: 56425
Credit: 34,275,117
RAC: 0
|
|
The hardware and server software are not up to the task; please visit http://bit.ly/nzXmXP ;) |
|
|
|
|
@AriZonaFan*:
Google Translate is our friend. :-P~~~
In English:
As always in short jobs get full garbage. Organization of this Challenge absolute fail! By Benin mom lost all desire to participate in such competitions!
The Chinese translation is more entertaining:
由于在短作业总是充满垃圾。组织这一挑战绝对失败！贝宁妈妈失去了所有希望参加这样的比赛！
terencewee*
Sicituradastra.
edit: @BiBi: You beat me to it! :D
Oh,yes:
in coreanish is a little bit better:
당신이 이걸 읽고 나면면, 그들은 또한 다르게 자신의 시간을 사용
____________
|
|
|
|
|
The hardware and server software are not up to the task; please visit http://bit.ly/nzXmXP ;)
"Pay - and we will Reply." ?? lol - somehow I dont think thats the best way around right now. ;-)
____________
|
|
|
|
|
The hardware and server software are not up to the task; please visit http://bit.ly/nzXmXP ;)
Thats the MEGA Server, is runing always
____________
|
|
|
BiBiVolunteer tester
Send message
Joined: 6 Mar 10
Posts: 151
ID: 56425
Credit: 34,275,117
RAC: 0
|
"Pay - and we will Reply." ?? lol - somehow I dont think thats the best way around right now. ;-)
Good advice is always welcome. For now just keep your fingers crossed because these are the Dog Days of Summer ;)
I am wondering what the admins think about the situation. I hope they don't cancel because it is a funny race this way. ;) |
|
|
|
|
|
It is like running a race blindfolded ..
Good fun..
Enjoy it ..
All will be sorted out in the end..
Life goes on..
b.
____________
Member of The UK BOINC Team.
Join us here
 http://www.tiny.cc/UBT
http://bobtonson.page-visit.com
 |
|
|
|
|
"Pay - and we will Reply." ?? lol - somehow I dont think thats the best way around right now. ;-)
Good advice is always welcome. For now just keep your fingers crossed because these are the Dog Days of Summer ;)
I am wondering what the admins think about the situation. I hope they don't cancel because it is a funny race this way. ;)
I think they think: "Lets hide until challenge is over!" ;-p
- Buy me a drink, and we`ll forget about this until tomorrow. ;-))
____________
|
|
|
|
|
I'm sitting here with 30 wu's that can not be uploaded and boinc is saying its delaying request for 6 hours. 6 hours I cant upload or download any wu's. Well good luck with the race everyone. 6 hours with no wu's is unacceptable in my book.
I'm not upset, I'll still be crunching Primegrid, but I'm off to another project till the race is over.
cheers
Don't blame PG for this problem, it's BOINC trying to cope with a short outage.
You can tell your BOINC clients to retry the upload and once complete, will download more work...
If the PG server was not accessible, then BOINC does the communication fallback. Are you going to blame the BOINC program for the server outage? Nice try. And no, I can tell boinc to update all I want, but it still will not ask for or upload any wu's till the cool down time limit has been reached. |
|
|
|
|
|
+1 for the Mystery Challenge! |
|
|
|
|
|
Always the leaders are gone. Large projects need a responsible, Obama is doing with the project manager of PG vacation. You can both ask, no one is answering.
Oh terrible
we are alone!
With Obama, we are unemployed, then we have guaranteed no money. At PG we have enough work and pay.
Which is better?
The bad or evil?
____________
|
|
|
|
|
And no, I can tell boinc to update all I want, but it still will not ask for or upload any wu's till the cool down time limit has been reached.
How about BOINC-Manager Menu View -->Advanced, Then go to Tab Transfers, click on upload-task and click button Retry Now? Works for me :)
|
|
|
|
|
And no, I can tell boinc to update all I want, but it still will not ask for or upload any wu's till the cool down time limit has been reached.
How about BOINC-Manager Menu View -->Advanced, Then go to Tab Transfers, click on upload-task and click button Retry Now? Works for me :)
Exactly! That's why I mentioned it. You can always override the "project backoff" by asking the transfer to be retried. And it usually goes thru just fine!
So, don't blame PG for BOINC's behavior. You can get your WU's reported and you can get more downloaded.
Now, if it's worth it due to no stats update, that's another question!
____________
|
|
|
|
|
And no, I can tell boinc to update all I want, but it still will not ask for or upload any wu's till the cool down time limit has been reached.
How about BOINC-Manager Menu View -->Advanced, Then go to Tab Transfers, click on upload-task and click button Retry Now? Works for me :)
Exactly! That's why I mentioned it. You can always override the "project backoff" by asking the transfer to be retried. And it usually goes thru just fine!
So, don't blame PG for BOINC's behavior. You can get your WU's reported and you can get more downloaded.
Now, if it's worth it due to no stats update, that's another question!
NO, you can not ALWAYS override BOINC. That is the problem. Once in backoff mode you cannot get/receive units until the backoff time is done. It overrides your manual tries.
You can blame boinc all you want, but the problem initiated from PG.
|
|
|
|
|
|
edit, double post |
|
|
|
|
Как всегда на коротких заданиях получается полная хуйня. Организации текущего челленджа абсолютный незачёт! К бениной маме пропадает всякое желание учавствовать в подобных соревнованиях!!!
Нужно было бы делать больше преимуществом рабочий пакет в будущем и сокращать таким образом груз сервера.
Без статистики никакое удовольствие не делает это.
|
|
|
|
|
And no, I can tell boinc to update all I want, but it still will not ask for or upload any wu's till the cool down time limit has been reached.
How about BOINC-Manager Menu View -->Advanced, Then go to Tab Transfers, click on upload-task and click button Retry Now? Works for me :)
doing that:
Contacting Primegrid, not asking for or sending units. project communication backoff XXX time |
|
|
|
|
|
this is call babysitting - I babysat for 2hours at the start of challenge thinking the situation will improve - it didn't.
I continued babysitting and posting here, team forum, reading Ars, etc. for about 4hrs before I go to bed.
it's ok if you got a single cruncher, but when you got multiple crunchers... it's quite bad.
We are almost at the half-way point of this challenge, PG as the host need to provide at minimum a stats update.
sorry... I'm hypnotized by team captain.
terencewee*
Sicituradastra.
edit: 680 of us participants would like to know how we are doing. |
|
|
Michael GoetzVolunteer moderator
Project administrator
Project scientist
Send message
Joined: 21 Jan 10
Posts: 10874
ID: 53948
Credit: 131,458,922
RAC: 122,522
      
|
NO, you can not ALWAYS override BOINC. That is the problem. Once in backoff mode you cannot get/receive units until the backoff time is done. It overrides your manual tries.
You can blame boinc all you want, but the problem initiated from PG.
Perhaps the version you're using works differently in that regard. I've always been able to force an update in BOINC. The communications backoffs can be overridden by manually updating.
There's two caveats to that statement, however:
1) As I said, it's entirely possible that you have a version of BOINC that behaves differently.
2) There are OTHER conditions that you can not override. It's possible you could have both a communications backoff AND some other condition that's preventing WUs from being requested. There's a lot of possible conditions that can cause that and many are far from obvious and/or well understood.
____________
Please do not PM me with support questions. They will usually go unanswered. Ask on the forums instead. Thank you!
My lucky number is 75898^524288+1 |
|
|
BiBiVolunteer tester
Send message
Joined: 6 Mar 10
Posts: 151
ID: 56425
Credit: 34,275,117
RAC: 0
|
Нужно было бы делать больше преимуществом рабочий пакет в будущем и сокращать таким образом груз сервера.
Без статистики никакое удовольствие не делает это.
Again Google translating: "One would have to do more business benefit package in the future and thus reduce the server load.
No statistics are not any fun doing it." |
|
|
|
|
|
@ Michael: So.. if we just push the button in the correct way, everything works? ;-p ;-))
Ok - I`ll go looking for the stats-update button-push.
____________
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hi all...
I am sorry for all problems we have. :(
We try to stop all things not needed.
Again... I am verry sorry for all the trubble you have.
I will stop sheduler @1800UTC and try to run Challenge stats.
Lennart |
|
|
|
|
this is call babysitting - I babysat for 2hours at the start of challenge thinking the situation will improve - it didn't.
I continued babysitting and posting here, team forum, reading Ars, etc. for about 4hrs before I go to bed.
it's ok if you got a single cruncher, but when you got multiple crunchers... it's quite bad.
We are almost at the half-way point of this challenge, PG as the host need to provide at minimum a stats update.
sorry... I'm hypnotized by team captain.
terencewee*
Sicituradastra.
edit: 680 of us participants would like to know how we are doing.
I for one am willing to wait till the end of the challenege to see how I do. This is a voluntary thing for not only me but all those who run the site.
I am sure that the people who run this site are not idlely sitting back and twiddling their fingers. I am sure they are doing all the best they can to run this challenge.
As to the people who say that if the site id not up to the challenege then they should not have runit. I say if you are not up to the problems you can encounter from running in this challenge i.e lack of WU, then dont start the race. No one has been forced to enter this challenge, take what it throws at you..
I also do not have a point
____________
Welcome to Holland
 |
|
|
mackerelVolunteer tester
Send message
Joined: 2 Oct 08
Posts: 1909
ID: 29980
Credit: 253,074,868
RAC: 141,524
|
|
Manual retry has always worked for me in BOINC 6.10.xx. I don't know if the current 6.12.xx is different there as I really didn't like the interface changes they put in it, so wont be going to it until I'm forced to.
Anyway, on the challenge it looks like only the faster boxes are suffering from occasional work shortages due to the cache unit cap. Slower boxes seem fine. |
|
|
|
|
this is call babysitting - I babysat for 2hours at the start of challenge thinking the situation will improve - it didn't.
I continued babysitting and posting here, team forum, reading Ars, etc. for about 4hrs before I go to bed.
it's ok if you got a single cruncher, but when you got multiple crunchers... it's quite bad.
We are almost at the half-way point of this challenge, PG as the host need to provide at minimum a stats update.
sorry... I'm hypnotized by team captain.
terencewee*
Sicituradastra.
edit: 680 of us participants would like to know how we are doing.
I for one am willing to wait till the end of the challenege to see how I do. This is a voluntary thing for not only me but all those who run the site.
I am sure that the people who run this site are not idlely sitting back and twiddling their fingers. I am sure they are doing all the best they can to run this challenge.
As to the people who say that if the site id not up to the challenege then they should not have runit. I say if you are not up to the problems you can encounter from running in this challenge i.e lack of WU, then dont start the race. No one has been forced to enter this challenge, take what it throws at you..
I also do not have a point
____________
Welcome to Holland
|
|
|
|
|
|
;-) Hei Lennart!
Thank you for posting! ;-)
..and for trying to do something!
____________
|
|
|
|
|
|
chal·lenge
[chal-inj] noun
1. a call or summons to engage in any contest, as of skill, strength, etc.
2. something that by its nature or character serves as a call to battle, contest, special effort, etc.: Space exploration offers a challenge to humankind.
3. a call to fight, as a battle, a duel, etc.
4. a demand to explain, justify, etc.: a challenge to the treasurer to itemize expenditures.
5. difficulty in a job or undertaking that is stimulating to one engaged in it.
In the challenge of life do you know what today or tomorrow will bring? Will you get that job you are trying for, will you get the money to pay your bills, etc?
This challenge has been just that, challenging the servers, challenging the users patience, etc. There is nothing there about keeping tabs. You volunteer to do this challenge and we will get out answers when we get the answers.
It's all for fun anyway, what do you really get out of it? To brag you were the top whatever? Does that buy your meals for today? Does it make any real difference in what tomorrow will bring? Will it change the world?
Come on people, some common sense here. We all crunch because we like to help out in our own little way. The numbers in the end mean nothing. Let's just have fun with this and quit yelling at the admins of this project who I think do a great job.
Here is a challenge, make a project as good as this one runs! Let's see if you can afford the servers, drive space, programming talent, etc. for years on end. Make your own challenges and see how your systems fair.
When this challenge is done we will move along and do whatever and it becomes a back end memory. |
|
|
|
|
Нужно было бы делать больше преимуществом рабочий пакет в будущем и сокращать таким образом груз сервера.
Без статистики никакое удовольствие не делает это.
Again Google translating: "One would have to do more business benefit package in the future and thus reduce the server load.
No statistics are not any fun doing it."
Actually, it's very funny to read double-translated text from English-to-Russian and reverse Russian-to-English :) :) :)
I hope leprechaun mean the next:
It would be better to use long-runtime tasks for PPS LLR to reduce server overload.
The lack of Statistics kills an interest to challenge.
____________
|
|
|
|
|
|
hmm...
thanks Lennart for trying, you're a star...
wonders what happens at the end of the challenge when, it looks like, some of us will have pages and pages of pending work units, which, iirc, will not count?
and, is there really any point in producing latest figures when most of the input is sitting in pending?
____________
 |
|
|
|
|
|
Oh.. Come on Pooh Bear ;-)
..are we going to talk about life experience.. or
are we all hoping for PG to make a better performance? ;-)
Its true as said before here:
"The lack of Statistics kills an interest to challenge."
Not Anyone who entered this challenge thought they could
go shopping for it tomorrow.. But when PG starts challenges,
we do at least expect Some challenge updates - and Some
feedback from the project if things doesnt work well. ;-)
____________
|
|
|
|
|
|
For some reason it appears the server(s) are not coping with demand (clearly), yet they have on past Challenges albeit there will always be the odd problem connected to peak demand. Yet another no WU session happening on my main machine as I post.
The control of cache at the start was sensible to get everyone going, however it has been far too restrictive since, resulting in dry machines, particularly the faster ones. Most with a 6 /8 /12/ 24 core machine's going full stretch are going to be hit by reduced cache when the server gets clobbered by a session of Peak demand.
PG Challenges are usually very good in my limited experience here - exceptions will be there, usually easy to find exceptions in any Project - but the norm is good. The guys appear to be bevering away trying to fix it, lets give them best wishes and support, I suspect they feel as depressed about it as we feel frustrated staring at empty WU queues. |
|
|
BiBiVolunteer tester
Send message
Joined: 6 Mar 10
Posts: 151
ID: 56425
Credit: 34,275,117
RAC: 0
|
Hi all...
I am sorry for all problems we have. :(
We try to stop all things not needed.
Again... I am verry sorry for all the trubble you have.
I will stop sheduler @1800UTC and try to run Challenge stats.
Lennart
You're doing great ;)
Some people, with faster machines like i7, are having problems with cache. Could the max tasks limit be increased?
EDIT: My systems are backing off due to maintenance :s :s :s |
|
|
|
|
|
Looks like the more things change, the more they stay the same!
Check out this post I made during the Marie-Sophie challenge all those months ago..
Guess we've overwhelmed the validator or the feeder or both.
I noticed my i-7 'hotbox' was requesting new tasks every 10sec or so - always refused due to max limit of tasks in progress - I checked my 'additional work-buffer' was only set to 1 day... - but a quick calc...
(120 tasks/8 cores * 0.5hours = only 7 hours!)
...shows why Boinc is always hungry!
It sounds counter-intuitive but I believe u can drastically reduce pressure on the servers by greatly increasing the task-limit! This will quickly shut up all those "hungry-chicks" crying for "more-food"!
In the meantime, I would suggest everybody reduce their Additional-Work-Buffer value to below 0.1 days to Stop the Begging!!!
Surely this is the way to go? - or is there something preventing the Admins from doing this that I don't know about??
____________
|
|
|
mackerelVolunteer tester
Send message
Joined: 2 Oct 08
Posts: 1909
ID: 29980
Credit: 253,074,868
RAC: 141,524
|
|
I assume the project is "down for maintenance" for the stats run mentioned earlier? I'd rather have units than stats at this point. My main box is dry again :( As a rough calculation I think the limited cache is effectively 40 minutes or so so doesn't last long when the unit flow stops... even older quad cores are about to dry up soon too. |
|
|
|
|
|
I for one would have preferred to have the server running and feeding WU's than see it stop for updating the stats (the teams ones are already updated, by the way).
Almost an hour of Project outage left my couple of boxes dry...
I congratulate the admins, however, as they have somehow managed to keep the server feeding hungry mouths for almost 24 hours, stopping the food flow, I believe, only to cope with some "whining for stats" around here.
Please do what you have to do and allow us to get back to work.
Cheers,
____________
676754^262144+1 is prime |
|
|
quelSend message
Joined: 21 Nov 10
Posts: 86
ID: 73895
Credit: 408,095,452
RAC: 83,930
|
I assume the project is "down for maintenance" for the stats run mentioned earlier? I'd rather have units than stats at this point. My main box is dry again :( As a rough calculation I think the limited cache is effectively 40 minutes or so so doesn't last long when the unit flow stops... even older quad cores are about to dry up soon too.
"I will stop sheduler @1800UTC and try to run Challenge stats."
That means no work going out and no ability to report work until the scheduler is restarted.
All my 8 cores are dry, all my quads will dry out within the next 5minutes. |
|
|
|
|
I assume the project is "down for maintenance" for the stats run mentioned earlier? I'd rather have units than stats at this point. My main box is dry again :( As a rough calculation I think the limited cache is effectively 40 minutes or so so doesn't last long when the unit flow stops... even older quad cores are about to dry up soon too.
"I will stop sheduler @1800UTC and try to run Challenge stats."
That means no work going out and no ability to report work until the scheduler is restarted.
All my 8 cores are dry, all my quads will dry out within the next 5minutes.
Be careful what you wish for...
____________
Oh Bondage? Up Yours.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogypBUCb7DA
|
|
|
quelSend message
Joined: 21 Nov 10
Posts: 86
ID: 73895
Credit: 408,095,452
RAC: 83,930
|
I for one would have preferred to have the server running and feeding WU's than see it stop for updating the stats (the teams ones are already updated, by the way).
Almost an hour of Project outage left my couple of boxes dry...
I congratulate the admins, however, as they have somehow managed to keep the server feeding hungry mouths for almost 24 hours, stopping the food flow, I believe, only to cope with some "whining for stats" around here.
Yes, having the blind challenge was quite the mystery! The restart is going to tax the server and will be like the challenge start *plus* people reporting completed work. My guess is that 40 WU per host cap is going to be dropped to 20 on the restart. However, with 622k+ WUs not validated...don't know what those stats are based on but I don't think all the challenge WUs are in the credits for that update. |
|
|
|
|
|
@Ian Smith:
If there is nothing can be done to provide a half-way stat update - I'm another one OK to wait till the end of the challenge to see how we did. I'm sure our responsible and tireless host is doing all they can.
@Pooh Bear 27:
I agree to almost all that you put forth. :-)
But the numbers do mean something to me:
The stats will tell me whether I'm right not to get SandyBrige but to wait for IvyBrige. (I have weak CPUs :-) )
How is my contribution compared to others within the project when everyone goes all out?
Who is ahead of me and how are they set up (when not hidden)?
Do I fire up another few cores to reach my initial set goals?
Can I pro-actively ensure I get into top-100 to grab individual challenge points?
I would like the satisfaction to be in the PG Official 2011 Challenge Series.
The numbers will clear up a few of my questions (post-challenge, not pushing) and allowing me to re-act (during-challenge, no regrets).
I am proud to crunch for PG, for the fun and with purpose. That could be just me... :-)
Anyhow, I'm very glad that the host is offering a glass of water.
Thank you, Lennart.
terencewee*
Sicituradastra. |
|
|
|
|
Yes, having the blind challenge was quite the mystery! The restart is going to tax the server and will be like the challenge start *plus* people reporting completed work. My guess is that 40 WU per host cap is going to be dropped to 20 on the restart. However, with 622k+ WUs not validated...don't know what those stats are based on but I don't think all the challenge WUs are in the credits for that update.
100 WUs to report and climbing. Looks my core duos are come close to drying up now. |
|
|
|
|
I for one would have preferred to have the server running and feeding WU's than see it stop for updating the stats (the teams ones are already updated, by the way).
Almost an hour of Project outage left my couple of boxes dry...
I congratulate the admins, however, as they have somehow managed to keep the server feeding hungry mouths for almost 24 hours, stopping the food flow, I believe, only to cope with some "whining for stats" around here.
Please do what you have to do and allow us to get back to work.
Cheers,
Like you, I agree. the only difference is that my rig isn't out of work...YET...lol. I know my little Core2 Quad isn't going to match strength with an i7, but I DO know that what meager score I get helps my TEAM out. The last I looked I was in 298th position individually - and I guess that's good, given the differences in types of rigs. But I'm part of a team, more than an individual - thus the saying...There's no "I" in TEAM, which is an acronym for: Together, Everyone Achieves More.
____________
 |
|
|
|
|
|
Looks like we're up and running again. :-) I was just able to get new WU's finally on my machines.
____________
 |
|
|
|
|
Be careful what you wish for...
Coconut takes the blame. ;-)
- since the stats update made boxes go dry - I guess
that we`re back to this: I alone wanted some stats updates?
So.... blame me for wishing. ;-)
(not that i can remember i wanted the wu flow to stop. - but that
might have been in a line "between". ;-D meaning.. someone may
deside thats what i ment. ;-)
Keep going all!
____________
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well it sure was a nice try, but stats are down again.
To me it all is starting to be some kind of a farce.
I will try once more, but if my quadcore runs dry again causing boinc to backoff for hours again I am cancelling all my computers and go somewhere else.
This has nothing to do with a fair challenge anymore.
Too bad, I haven't missed a challenge the last two years, but for me the fun is gone.
____________
 |
|
|
|
|
|
I wonder what the problem is: Hardware too slow or software not configured correctly?
Okay the server is somewhat aged now (almost three years?) but it was a top-rig back in the days and is still not that bad now.
Speak out what would help the project! |
|
|
|
|
(...)
This has nothing to do with a fair challenge anymore.
(...)
Since all entrants in the challenge experience the same difficulties it is a fair challenge. Given the fact that a run dry of one hour impacts the big players more than the small ones it is very fair. |
|
|
|
|
I wonder what the problem is: Hardware too slow or software not configured correctly?
Okay the server is somewhat aged now (almost three years?) but it was a top-rig back in the days and is still not that bad now.
Speak out what would help the project!
The problem is the short runtime of these WUs and small cache. If you can put 5 WUs in one package as yoyo@home do it with ogr this can help a lot.
PS: Keep an eye of the current available pps llr! It runs out very soon... |
|
|
|
|
(...)
This has nothing to do with a fair challenge anymore.
(...)
Since all entrants in the challenge experience the same difficulties it is a fair challenge. Given the fact that a run dry of one hour impacts the big players more than the small ones it is very fair.
How is it fair if the big players are affected more than the small players? Please explain.
I have several slower dualcores which have no problems and 1 i7-quad which has been idle-ing almost all night and half the day. So the dualcores have produced more than the quadcore. Is that fair??
____________
|
|
|
|
|
|
Regarding stats, here is a page on BOINCstats that provides team standings. I have no idea if this is authoritative or "official", but last I checked it was updated at 2011-08-27 / 20:17:39 (they don't list a time zone; I assume GMT). Also the column that it is sorted by is by "total credit"; I assume this is by "boinc credit" and not "prime score" which is how the Challenge is scored. At least some of the columns to the right have higher numbers; I don't know what's up with that.
Anyway, a lot of uncertainty here, but at least it will give people something to look at and no doubt complain about :-)
--Gary |
|
|
quelSend message
Joined: 21 Nov 10
Posts: 86
ID: 73895
Credit: 408,095,452
RAC: 83,930
|
How is it fair if the big players are affected more than the small players? Please explain.
I have several slower dualcores which have no problems and 1 i7-quad which has been idle-ing almost all night and half the day. So the dualcores have produced more than the quadcore. Is that fair??
Yes all my machines with more than 2 cores have required a lot of constant babysitting. I think the biggest factor is max WUs per host limits. However, it's easy to apply a limit across the board but requires much more work, in BOINC, to say have a queue of 20 for a single core machine, a queue of 30 for a dual core, a queue of 60 for a quad, a queue of 120 for 8 cores, etc.
Also, fairness in any matter will never be something that all agree on. See fairness for CPU v GPU credits in any project that has both. Some feel that those that buy the newest hardware should reap the most rewards and others feel that CPU credit - esp for a sub project that is CPU only - is sorely lacking for the runtime. (Lets not even discuss those trying to weigh the cost of power and cooling into the credit scoring.)
There is no way to make everyone happy. However, constructive ideas on what would help improve fairness, project access, etc. that can be discussed by all are a good thing. At this point we can't really come up with solutions for the past (hindsight is 20:20) but we can offer ideas that the admins can weigh to improve the project and challenges for everyone. I think such a discussion would be a better use of time than us just posting our frustration and venting. |
|
|
|
|
|
That page seems to be based off http://www.primegrid.com/challenge/2011_6/top_teams.html and therefore has little to do with reality. During the stats update, there was a moment when the stats displayed something more realistic, showing top teams in the 1 million ballpark. |
|
|
|
|
|
well, i was crunching PPS llr's before the challenge and will be after it.
so, when the mess is cleaned up, i will go back to normal :) |
|
|
|
|
That page seems to be based off http://www.primegrid.com/challenge/2011_6/top_teams.html and therefore has little to do with reality. During the stats update, there was a moment when the stats displayed something more realistic, showing top teams in the 1 million ballpark.
Yes I think you are probably right. I just looked at it again and it seems to have changed in a random fashion.
Best to ignore that page, at least for now.
--Gary |
|
|
|
|
|
"No Work Available: Proth Prime Search (LLR)
UTC time
2011-08-27 20:51:36"
How you like this .......?
____________
"I always win law prmanently" |
|
|
quelSend message
Joined: 21 Nov 10
Posts: 86
ID: 73895
Credit: 408,095,452
RAC: 83,930
|
|
By definition the only place where the stat data can be retrieved is from the primegrid database. Whether others scrape the two html stats pages or grab the xml dumps that boincstats uses - all the data comes from PG. Unless PG updates the xml stat data and not the html pages then all other stat sites will not be able to provide any data other than what PG has given. It is true that during the stats update there was a period of time where the data showed up before it went to the blanked or incomplete state that it is now. For that case then boincstats may have gotten that snapshot and thus will at least be more helpful than the current pages here.
I think a mostly blind challenge is in itself a very interesting variable to have. Take it in stride and throw everything you have at the challenge and then we will all see where the dust settles. |
|
|
|
|
|
Hi all,
In the civilised world (where we play cricket) an international challenge is called a TEST.
A test is where you do something difficult to learn what happens.
We have already learnt things about the servers, the challenge, the admins and the users.
1. The servers have problems with such a sudden high workload on a single task.
2. Challenges with short units really need a BIG load of work ready to go in big chunks to reduce problems.
3. There is a limited amount the admins can do on the fly to resolve the load issues without cutting back other services.
4. Some users have no patience.
To solve the last point I will just say "Hang on in there, it could get better. If it does not then relax and go with the work flow."
I am not in the challenge, perferring to press on with my badges hunt but even so I have now got sieve workunits pending when there is no wingman!!
I am not worried, so long as it clears in the next 25.3 days I will still get my next silver on time.
I am not against constructive complaints -- they highlight the points we are all learning abouit the system we are a part of.
Good luck to all you challengers.
____________
Member team AUSTRALIA
My lucky number is 9291*2^1085585+1 |
|
|
|
|
|
Available: Proth Prime Search (LLR) 0
end of challenge ?? XD
____________
Greetz
Chris
561*2^1423021+1
 |
|
|
Ken_g6Volunteer developer
Send message
Joined: 4 Jul 06
Posts: 826
ID: 3110
Credit: 113,873,736
RAC: 53,113
    
|
|
Somebody's forgotten to refill the queue.
I got so fed up with the last outage that this time I have a VM queued up with a few extra WUs. It's an old VirtualBox, so it can only run on one of my four cores. But this means that in 20 minutes, if this isn't cleared up, instead of being 100% dry, I'll only be 75% dry.
____________
|
|
|
|
|
|
Im sure there will be more wu`s ;-)
We have had one peak at the stats - about
half way in the challenge, and i think that was good, actually ;-)
...then it will be a blind challenge until its finished.. Maybe
it would be ok to just deside this before challenge start -
Only update once every 12 hour or something.. ;-p At least
we wouldnt expect anything else then.
Now its Baileys-time. ;-)
Good luck to everyone in the next 21 hours!
____________
|
|
|
|
|
|
I apparently was crunching duplicate/re-sent work for a while. When the project went down at 1800Z Saturday, my i7 had about 30 minutes worth of work in the cache. These finished then were all stuck trying to upload until about 1920Z. At 19:21:03Z I "reported 39 completed tasks, requesting new tasks for CPU". At that point they appeared to upload (disappeared from boinc manager), but in my Messages tab I got 39 "resent lost task pps_llr_extended_12345678_N" messages, and also some downloads of fresh WUs. A spot-check on my Messages showed that every "resent" task (based on the "12345678" part) was one that I had downloaded shortly before 1800Z and finished crunching after 1800Z and that had to wait around to upload. These tasks all re-crunched sometime after 1925Z and reported a second time. The final digit on the task ID was 0 the first time and 1 the second, indicating a re-send.
--Gary |
|
|
|
|
|
What gives????? All I ever get is this message:8/27/2011 2:14:06 PM | PrimeGrid | Message from server: No work available for the applications you have selected. Please check your project preferences on the web site.
HELP!
Lonnie |
|
|
|
|
What gives????? All I ever get is this message:8/27/2011 2:14:06 PM | PrimeGrid | Message from server: No work available for the applications you have selected. Please check your project preferences on the web site.
HELP!
Lonnie
The que dried up, aka we used up all of the WUs.
____________
1281*2^594565+1
2393323632147*2^1290000-1 |
|
|
|
|
|
OK, lets doe something for WCG :)
This challenge like to be a big accident...
____________
Greetz
Chris
561*2^1423021+1
|
|
|
|
|
|
This challenge is a big challenge! ;-)
____________
|
|
|
|
|
Well it sure was a nice try, but stats are down again.
Last valid stats:
PGC-2011_06-Team-2011-08-27-18-36-41.pdf
PGC-2011_06-Users-2011-08-27-19-10-12.pdf
Credits to quel.
terencewee*
Sicituradastra. |
|
|
|
|
|
I'm tapping out from expecting anything from this event.
My total credit completion is now less than 1/4 of a normal production day (non-competition) on the same 2 projects I most always crunch (PPS LLR & PPS Sieve) on the same 3 machines I have always had crunching. I've got a dozen new 24-core machines I am not even able to turn on as I cannot micromanage them for this and they don't appear to be able to help the project in any meaningful way right now. I was hoping to bring them online just for the competition too.
Call it fair, balanced, equally disadvantaged, or whatever you like, but competition it is not. We are factually NOT competing on the computing capabilities we each have at our disposal individually or as teams. I can't even keep my non-competition machines working at non-competition levels. We are only competing for who can click "Retry Transmission" the fastest (which doesn't help the project admins any either). I've got 300 cores idling simply because I cannot micromanage them for this (to work around server and WU availability).
I fully appreciate that these things are hard to pull off, and that it isn't backed by big money or lots of staff. I am a systems and network administrator by trade and I am fully aware of how badly these things can go even with the best of intentions and planning (Murphy's law). I want to thank the project admins for trying to make a fun competition for us to take part in...
However, showing that you know when to acknowledge and gracefully stop calling it a competition would certainly be appreciated. Personally I'm of the opinion this event is best left to be rescheduled until after the causes of the issues are addressed (whatever they might be). Then again, it's your prerogative to continue calling it a competition if you really want to; just don't be surprised if people consider the results a farce.
Thanks and good luck,
Robert |
|
|
Scott BrownVolunteer moderator
Project administrator
Volunteer tester
Project scientist
Send message
Joined: 17 Oct 05
Posts: 1713
ID: 1178
Credit: 5,151,583,202
RAC: 1,872,765
|
However, showing that you know when to acknowledge and gracefully stop calling it a competition would certainly be appreciated. Personally I'm of the opinion this event is best left to be rescheduled until after the causes of the issues are addressed (whatever they might be). Then again, it's your prerogative to continue calling it a competition if you really want to; just don't be surprised if people consider the results a farce.
Two big thumbs up on that suggestion!...and there is precedent for doing so (see the PrimeTime challenge from November 2008).
____________
141941*2^4299438-1 is prime!
|
|
|
mackerelVolunteer tester
Send message
Joined: 2 Oct 08
Posts: 1909
ID: 29980
Credit: 253,074,868
RAC: 141,524
|
|
While I'd like to max out my output, this challenge is certainly challenging, just in ways not intended. I'll definitely be fighting up to the end.
I'm half glad the CPUs go idle from time to time, it's getting rather warm with all crunchers firing! |
|
|
pan2000Volunteer tester
Send message
Joined: 23 Jan 07
Posts: 26
ID: 5226
Credit: 300,432,019
RAC: 52,846
    
|
|
Server is out of work? So the Challege is over? |
|
|
|
|
|
I believe the server also ran dry for a couple of hours in the first challenge of the year ("Year of the Rabbit"), also with PPS LLR Tasks.
Have faith...
New WU's should be arriving asap.
____________
676754^262144+1 is prime |
|
|
DoESVolunteer tester
Send message
Joined: 11 Oct 08
Posts: 779
ID: 30382
Credit: 74,302,485
RAC: 0
|
Two big thumbs up on that suggestion!...and there is precedent for doing so (see the PrimeTime challenge from November 2008).
I remember it well -- complete meltdown but things were learned from the experience and the next PPS LLR went fairly well --
I find this thread rather entertaining though -- Perhaps there should be credits awarded for sarcasm & sniping --
Onya' Lennart -- Keep pedalling mate.
____________
Member of AtP
"If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?"
Albert Einstein
|
|
|
|
|
|
For me personally, what sucks most is the total lack of communication. The challenge is going down the toilet - where are the damn frequent updates? "We are having issues with such and such", "This is what we are doing to fix it", "ETA is X hours", "Please do this and that to help us (put everything on hold, or retry, or whatever)"? Why does it look like nobody even cares?
I spent hours yesterday setting up a crunch farm specifically for this challenge, and what is happening not is NOT in any way a rewarding experience. |
|
|
|
|
For me personally, what sucks most is the total lack of communication. The challenge is going down the toilet - where are the damn frequent updates? "We are having issues with such and such", "This is what we are doing to fix it", "ETA is X hours", "Please do this and that to help us (put everything on hold, or retry, or whatever)"? Why does it look like nobody even cares?
I spent hours yesterday setting up a crunch farm specifically for this challenge, and what is happening not is NOT in any way a rewarding experience.
Look to the Chat, Lennart is working on it.
Greetz
sl1d3r |
|
|
|
|
|
I am looking all over the place, yet I don't seem to find a link to chat. Care to share? Thanks! |
|
|
|
|
|
http://www.primegrid.com/forum_index.php
Down there you'll see the chat.
____________
676754^262144+1 is prime |
|
|
|
|
|
we wait, oh yes, we wait.
Lennart please, give me a little Wu, no ?
a half Wu ?
a crazy WU ?
oh Lennart , please,please,please ! Only in this crazy Dog challenge please, Lennart
____________
|
|
|
|
|
|
Do we have to book WUs in advanve for this challenge..? Just curious to know ............
____________
"I always win law prmanently" |
|
|
|
|
|
Ok there is no new WU, but why then validation is off? Since server load is "normal again" why not validate results?
____________
9 *10^1009567-1 REPDIGIT MEGA PRIME :) :) :)
57*2^3339932-1 MEGA PRIME :)
10994460^131072+1 GENERALIZED FERMAT :)
31*332^367560+1 CRUS PRIME :)
Proud member of team Aggie The Pew. Go Aggie! |
|
|
yank
Send message
Joined: 14 May 07
Posts: 93
ID: 8367
Credit: 5,230,395,541
RAC: 6,842,885
     
|
Well it sure was a nice try, but stats are down again.
Last valid stats:
PGC-2011_06-Team-2011-08-27-18-36-41.pdf
PGC-2011_06-Users-2011-08-27-19-10-12.pdf
Credits to quel.
terencewee*
Sicituradastra.
Thanks for showing the links to the latest stats.
I also am out of work units and I am sure managerment will fix this problem as soon as possible.
____________
 |
|
|
|
|
|
excellent service for the challenge so far keep up the good work
____________
|
|
|
|
|
|
and exelent service for no answer of all the problems. The challenge is over or not ?
But who do I ask about? No answers anyway! Porjekt manager is at home or at the bar, or sleeping. If no one answers, no one is there too. The challenge of running alone, without people. And is broken.
____________
|
|
|
|
|
|
The total project Management may be helpless and does not have any valid answer or responsible person available. Let us forget this now than having any bad taste by reminding ourselves of this excellent and wonderful challenge which was really having a lot of challenges in itsef.
____________
"I always win law prmanently" |
|
|
|
|
|
I guess we're back in the game.
|
|
|
|
|
|
As to the people who say that if the site id not up to the challenege then they should not have runit. I say if you are not up to the problems you can encounter from running in this challenge i.e lack of WU, then dont start the race.
;-) I doubt very much that is how the PrimeGrid staff want it. They want it
to work properly. So... lets wait and see if they can sort out this mess. ;-)
But the challenge in itself is mainly ruined. Sad.. as the PG challenges are
normally very fun to participate in.. and gives us some exciting hours/days.
Most of all I now look forward to some proper info and update from the
project`s side.
Good night from Norway. ;-)
____________
|
|
|
|
|
I guess we're back in the game.
yup. New tasks have arrived. |
|
|
yank
Send message
Joined: 14 May 07
Posts: 93
ID: 8367
Credit: 5,230,395,541
RAC: 6,842,885
|
|
Thanks to the managerment for bringing the site back-up. I knew you all could do.
____________
|
|
|
|
|
|
PG Admins and Staff,
Thanks VERY much for the hard work in getting things running again.
In light of the internal challenges encountered and impact it had on the goal of the challenge, may I
respectfully ask the Admins, Staff, and Management to consider releasing the system to 'normal' operating
status at this point and rescheduling another go at it?
I think that would be most fair to you folks as you have had to deal with the internal issues beyond your
scope of magnitude and issues simply out of your control.
I would think in the interests of the science & 'friendly challenge' senses, this would make the most sense.
Sorry you had to endure such pain,
I, as a world-wide scale computing engineer, do appreciate,
Auto-pilot and sleep modes on,
Get some rest gang, you deserve it,
Cheers,
Chuck
|
|
|
|
|
|
I am curious this time to see how long it takes for the validator to clear the backlog we have built up this time...
____________
|
|
|
|
|
Thanks VERY much for the hard work in getting things running again.
+10 |
|
|
|
|
|
I look at some of these comments and I have to laugh.
All the stress some of the challengers are facing... And it is a hobby!! we are amateurs and there is not even gold, silver or bronze medals to fight for!!
Think of the delay in work as a pitstop in a F1 race, but without the millions of $ at stake if it takes a while. Be glad it is not a crash with a total server writeoff!!
The lack of work will have evened out the field as it must have affected the fastest machines most, but the complainers are those who are potentially gaining places due to the delay!!
Loosen up!! Have some fun and let the computer take the stress.
I think the admins should be congratulated on making the challenges so well organised and popular they now run out of work. Perhaps a bit more popular than they expected.
____________
Member of team AUSTRALIA |
|
|
|
|
I look at some of these comments and I have to laugh.
All the stress some of the challengers are facing... And it is a hobby!! we are amateurs and there is not even gold, silver or bronze medals to fight for!!
Think of the delay in work as a pitstop in a F1 race, but without the millions of $ at stake if it takes a while. Be glad it is not a crash with a total server writeoff!!
The lack of work will have evened out the field as it must have affected the fastest machines most, but the complainers are those who are potentially gaining places due to the delay!!
Loosen up!! Have some fun and let the computer take the stress.
I think the admins should be congratulated on making the challenges so well organised and popular they now run out of work. Perhaps a bit more popular than they expected.
You're right in all points *thumbs up* |
|
|
|
|
|
It looks like the availability of PPS is going down fast. Is the server generating any more work? I was wondering if at this pace, the well is going to run dry again before the end of the challenge. |
|
|
|
|
[quote]
I find this thread rather entertaining though -- Perhaps there should be credits awarded for sarcasm & sniping --
Nah ... For some there's no work involved in s&s ... heck, it doesn't even overheat a room!
|
|
|
|
|
|
By the way ... to the admins, volunteers, etc ... I know this challenge has been a cluster in some ways ... but there is no doubt you've been working at it and thank you.
Cheers all! |
|
|
BiBiVolunteer tester
Send message
Joined: 6 Mar 10
Posts: 151
ID: 56425
Credit: 34,275,117
RAC: 0
|
(...) competition (...)
The nice thing here is that you are the first who calls it a competition.
I like it to be a challenge. You are spoiled with ESPN ;) |
|
|
|
|
|
Science works
http://youtu.be/FnblmZdTbYs
____________
|
|
|
|
|
|
No thanks to the admins! They aren't there.
Perhaps Rytis in on holiday and John has a date with Irene.
Anyway: many thanks to our volunteer moderator: Lennart
who is trying everything what he can with blood, sweat and tears. |
|
|
|
|
|
Special Thanks @ Lennart, he work alone ! Don`t forget, alone ! With all problems,
Leannart: Thank You !
____________
|
|
|
rroonnaallddVolunteer developer
Volunteer tester
Send message
Joined: 3 Jul 09
Posts: 1213
ID: 42893
Credit: 34,634,263
RAC: 0
|
I got so fed up with the last outage that this time I have a VM queued up with a few extra WUs. It's an old VirtualBox, so it can only run on one of my four cores. But this means that in 20 minutes, if this isn't cleared up, instead of being 100% dry, I'll only be 75% dry.
I am crunching since years with VMs. They are portable, easy to backup and only the missing GPU inside a VM is sometimes a showstopper...
____________
Best wishes. Knowledge is power. by jjwhalen
 |
|
|
|
|
It looks like the availability of PPS is going down fast. Is the server generating any more work? I was wondering if at this pace, the well is going to run dry again before the end of the challenge.
If you look at the graphs of work available, the new workunits seem to arrive in fairly large batches. No word on whether these batches are generated on the server or elsewhere, though.
The current batch does not look likely to last to the end of the challenge. |
|
|
|
|
It looks like the availability of PPS is going down fast. Is the server generating any more work? I was wondering if at this pace, the well is going to run dry again before the end of the challenge.
If you look at the graphs of work available, the new workunits seem to arrive in fairly large batches. No word on whether these batches are generated on the server or elsewhere, though.
The current batch does not look likely to last to the end of the challenge.
The buffer is set to 50k so I think it will work :)
Thank you all for following this Challenge.
Lennart |
|
|
Sysadm@NbgVolunteer moderator
Volunteer tester
Project scientist
Send message
Joined: 5 Feb 08
Posts: 1135
ID: 18646
Credit: 373,987,551
RAC: 163,322
|
Thank you all for following this Challenge.
With a twinkle in the eyes: we will follow
after all - enjoys the Sunday - if you can
____________
Sysadm@Nbg
my current lucky number: 3299*2^1441747+1
PSA-PRPNet-Stats-URL: http://u-g-f.de/PRPNet/
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hi again all cruncher. :)
It is now less then 1hr left...
If you not are going to complete what you have left in cache! Abort them
Clean up !
We have about 900k not validated and I think about 40-50% will need a double check. :)
When challenge is finished I'll start Challenge stats. ( need to get the serverload down )
Thanks
Lennart |
|
|
|
|
Hi again all cruncher. :)
It is now less then 1hr left...
If you not are going to complete what you have left in cache! Abort them
Clean up !
We have about 900k not validated and I think about 40-50% will need a double check. :)
When challenge is finished I'll start Challenge stats. ( need to get the serverload down )
Thanks
Lennart
Thank you for all your hard work through this challenge!
____________
|
|
|
|
|
|
Thank You, Lennart !!!
____________
|
|
|
|
|
|
I got around 3680 pending WUs.
Should i left my clients onto the ppsLLR some additional days to get the doulbe-checks done? |
|
|
|
|
|
Thanks to everybody :) The Challenge is over.
We will now start the afterwork of this challenge. When load drops we start running stats and hopfully validator catch i up.
More info to come.....
Lennart
|
|
|
|
|
|
"Just say when". I've uploaded one WU at 17:59:44 UTC and now I don't know if it made it through.
____________
I'm counting for science,
Points just make me sick. |
|
|
VatoVolunteer tester
Send message
Joined: 2 Feb 08
Posts: 673
ID: 18447
Credit: 56,067,006
RAC: 8,002
|
"Just say when". I've uploaded one WU at 17:59:44 UTC and now I don't know if it made it through.
If it completed then, it will count.
____________
   |
|
|
|
|
Hi again all cruncher. :)
It is now less then 1hr left...
If you not are going to complete what you have left in cache! Abort them
Clean up !
We have about 900k not validated and I think about 40-50% will need a double check. :)
When challenge is finished I'll start Challenge stats. ( need to get the serverload down )
Thanks
Lennart
Thanks Lennart SM5YMT for all your hard work tto make this challenge complete.Your sincere dedication and efforts are highly appreciated.
____________
"I always win law prmanently" |
|
|
rroonnaallddVolunteer developer
Volunteer tester
Send message
Joined: 3 Jul 09
Posts: 1213
ID: 42893
Credit: 34,634,263
RAC: 0
|
|
I am sorry to say this but with more than 500 pending units are my "Dog Days of Summer" challenge stats useless.
To my surprise I found many units from the first challenge day and not every work unit needed a wingman...
____________
Best wishes. Knowledge is power. by jjwhalen
|
|
|
|
|
I am sorry to say this but with more than 500 pending units are my "Dog Days of Summer" challenge stats useless.
To my surprise I found many units from the first challenge day and not every work unit needed a wingman...
Pending or not does not matter !
It is the time they was sent in to PG server that counts.
The stats only shows the validated wu at this time but it will be rerun and count all wu's done in the Challengetime.
Lennart
|
|
|
rroonnaallddVolunteer developer
Volunteer tester
Send message
Joined: 3 Jul 09
Posts: 1213
ID: 42893
Credit: 34,634,263
RAC: 0
|
Pending or not does not matter !
It is the time they was sent in to PG server that counts.
The stats only shows the validated wu at this time but it will be rerun and count all wu's done in the Challengetime.
Lennart Okey dokey.
 ...waiting...
____________
Best wishes. Knowledge is power. by jjwhalen
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, I wasn't about for the challenge, and left my computers running in the hope they did something. From reading this, appears there were a few issues, but happens.
Not sure if the stats on the front page are final or not, but hey, am happy with my Top 500 finish! :D
Looking forward to the next challenge. |
|
|
|
|
|
When stats is complete it say Final standings :)
It is not final now.
Lennart |
|
|
|
|
Not sure if the stats on the front page are final or not, but hey, am happy with my Top 500 finish! :D
Looking forward to the next challenge.
I only ever try for top 500, I can't really do much better than that with just a C2D laptop.
____________
|
|
|
|
|
