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Message boards : Seventeen or Bust : Extremely low credit for SoB when compared to other WU types?

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Credit: 10,881,291
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PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (232,320)SoB LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (74,453)SGS LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (804,571)321 Sieve Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (13,319)PPS Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (9,754,711)
Message 33615 - Posted: 1 Mar 2011 | 18:41:55 UTC

Just took a couple of weeks to get through a few SoB work units:

http://www.primegrid.com/workunit.php?wuid=144378166
http://www.primegrid.com/workunit.php?wuid=163868149
http://www.primegrid.com/workunit.php?wuid=143297745
http://www.primegrid.com/workunit.php?wuid=163723084
http://www.primegrid.com/workunit.php?wuid=163803878
http://www.primegrid.com/workunit.php?wuid=163723096

After completing them, they're credited with only a fraction of the points awarded that would have occurred had I been doing another project instead (ie. Proth Prime Search (Sieve)).

For example, with a Proth Prime Search (Sieve) WU that took 66,974.71 seconds, the credit given was 4,523.00.

http://www.primegrid.com/workunit.php?wuid=166847086

Yet with a SOB task that took 659,871.00 seconds, nearly ten times as long, the credit given was 10,449.05.

http://www.primegrid.com/workunit.php?wuid=144378166

This is on reasonably modern Intel Core2 stuff, not ancient cpu's either.

Is something really screwy in the credit calculations with SoB, or is this expected? Maybe a way to de-emphasise SoB so people don't do it or something?

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Discovered 2 mega primesFound 2 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 12 primes in the 2020 Tour de Primes321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,558,268)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,287,148)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,174,327)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,028,260)PPS LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (40,149,171)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,151,448)SoB LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,014,268)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (14,871,275)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,860,522)TRP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,130,742)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,036,418)321 Sieve Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (101,538,236)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (127,922,665)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (30,984,158)PPS Sieve Double Ruby: Earned 2,000,000,000 credits (2,840,173,136)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,134,964)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,013,696)AP 26/27 Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (276,723,135)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (248,449,567)PSA Double Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000,000 credits (1,370,700,486)
Message 33620 - Posted: 1 Mar 2011 | 18:50:12 UTC

I agree with your assessment of the credits. The new versions of sob give between 11,000 and 13,000 but still way below the combined amount for a pps sieve run of the same time length. I'm still not sure how credits are assigned to specific projects and what they are based on.

So, if you can get them to up the credits I'm all for ya !

RR
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PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (232,320)SoB LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (74,453)SGS LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (804,571)321 Sieve Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (13,319)PPS Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (9,754,711)
Message 33626 - Posted: 1 Mar 2011 | 19:05:06 UTC

For my account, I've disabled SoB now (of course), and suspect that's the intended result.

My guess is just that the PrimeGrid team REALLY need to update the website to make clear which projects are deemphasised like this, so people don't waste their time.

The present website's communication in regards to the crediting system is clear as mud. :( And it wouldn't be hard to improve it. ;)

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Discovered 7 mega primesEliminated 4 conjecture "k"sFound 2 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de Primes Mountain Stage2019 Tour de Primes largest primeFound 4 primes in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de Primes Mountain StageFound 1 prime in the 2020 Tour de Primes321 LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (62,020,570)Cullen LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,296,190)ESP LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,853,190)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,309,119)PPS LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (114,485,312)PSP LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,563,867)SoB LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (87,974,002)SR5 LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (101,883,529)SGS LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (53,154,727)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (43,033)TRP LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (78,000,928)Woodall LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,956,094)321 Sieve Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (114,460,941)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,142,109)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,504,945)PPS Sieve Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (513,057,580)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,288,222)TRP Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,149,354)AP 26/27 Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (219,682,055)GFN Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (717,020,824)PSA Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (535,232,795)
Message 33629 - Posted: 1 Mar 2011 | 19:11:12 UTC - in response to Message 33626.

My guess is just that the PrimeGrid team REALLY need to update the website to make clear which projects are deemphasised like this, so people don't waste their time.

If you are in only for credits, it may appear as waste of time.
But by doing SoB LLR, you may find HUGE prime.

I would say that all LLR subprojects should have comparable credit/hour. SoB might have a bit more since it's much more demanding to complete (and validate).

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Discovered 2 mega primesFound 2 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 12 primes in the 2020 Tour de Primes321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,558,268)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,287,148)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,174,327)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,028,260)PPS LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (40,149,171)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,151,448)SoB LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,014,268)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (14,871,275)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,860,522)TRP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,130,742)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,036,418)321 Sieve Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (101,538,236)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (127,922,665)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (30,984,158)PPS Sieve Double Ruby: Earned 2,000,000,000 credits (2,840,173,136)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,134,964)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,013,696)AP 26/27 Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (276,723,135)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (248,449,567)PSA Double Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000,000 credits (1,370,700,486)
Message 33634 - Posted: 1 Mar 2011 | 19:23:23 UTC

sob's are just fun cause they are such a challenge to get done and even more to get validated. That's where the real fun and frustration begins :)
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PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (232,320)SoB LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (74,453)SGS LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (804,571)321 Sieve Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (13,319)PPS Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (9,754,711)
Message 33637 - Posted: 1 Mar 2011 | 19:28:11 UTC - in response to Message 33629.

"If you are in only for credits, it may appear as waste of time."

That seems like a pretty strange answer.

What's the point of imaginary "credits", if they're not related to each other via importance in some way from the project's point of view?

How else is a person new to this project supposed to tell which WU types are more or less important to PrimeGrid, when the only measuring stick given is these imaginary "credits"?

I can see you've been around for a while, so I'm guessing you're just not relating to a newbie's point-of-view very well. "credits" is the measure we seem to have been given for what the project considers important here.

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Discovered 2 mega primesEliminated 1 conjecture "k"Found 3 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 5 primes in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 6 primes in the 2020 Tour de Primes321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,774,878)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,149,818)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,454,573)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,122,074)PPS LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (71,949,476)PSP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (15,223,714)SoB LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (17,319,914)SR5 LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (23,993,013)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,342,780)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (34,130)TRP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (18,602,519)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,715,464)321 Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (18,014,408)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,383,853)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,626,419)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (76,969,144)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,293,882)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,012,757)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (21,918,894)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (71,886,552)PSA Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,939,755)
Message 33638 - Posted: 1 Mar 2011 | 19:34:11 UTC - in response to Message 33637.

Personally I don't care at all about boinc credits. They are meaningless to me, apart from the side distraction of collecting different colour badges here. I'm here mostly in the hopes of finding big prime numbers.

As for some of the reasons why the credits are different... I believe sieve subprojects were always set a bit higher than LLR subprojects, to compensate for the fact that only LLR can find prime numbers. Sieve helps towards that, but doesn't directly find a prime. Further complicating is that sieve gains a significant boost from a 64 bit OS over 32 bit, where you don't get any difference between the two on LLR.

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Discovered 7 mega primesEliminated 4 conjecture "k"sFound 2 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de Primes Mountain Stage2019 Tour de Primes largest primeFound 4 primes in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de Primes Mountain StageFound 1 prime in the 2020 Tour de Primes321 LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (62,020,570)Cullen LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,296,190)ESP LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,853,190)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,309,119)PPS LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (114,485,312)PSP LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,563,867)SoB LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (87,974,002)SR5 LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (101,883,529)SGS LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (53,154,727)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (43,033)TRP LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (78,000,928)Woodall LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,956,094)321 Sieve Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (114,460,941)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,142,109)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,504,945)PPS Sieve Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (513,057,580)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,288,222)TRP Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,149,354)AP 26/27 Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (219,682,055)GFN Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (717,020,824)PSA Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (535,232,795)
Message 33639 - Posted: 1 Mar 2011 | 19:39:40 UTC
Last modified: 1 Mar 2011 | 19:40:07 UTC

They are related. Credit is not based on importance of difference tasks, it is based on work done (FLOPs).
GPUs doing much more work than CPUs on sieving, hence much more credit per hour. But GPUs are limited to certain type of jobs...

Each users has different view on what subprojects on PG or BOINC project in general are more important.

Sieving is an effecient way to get few candidates for primes. But you can't find primes by doing sieving, you need to do primality test. But you can't do primality tests in an effecient way without doing sieving in first place.
What's more important? One can't do well without other...

EDIT: Ahh, I was slow with my answer...
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PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (232,320)SoB LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (74,453)SGS LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (804,571)321 Sieve Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (13,319)PPS Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (9,754,711)
Message 33655 - Posted: 2 Mar 2011 | 3:04:50 UTC - in response to Message 33639.

Credit is not based on importance of difference tasks, it is based on work done (FLOPs). GPUs doing much more work than CPUs on sieving, hence much more credit per hour.


If you're going to answer, please at least check the WU's I'm talking about first. I've even provided URLs:

PPS WU:
http://www.primegrid.com/workunit.php?wuid=166847086

SoB WU's:
http://www.primegrid.com/workunit.php?wuid=144378166
http://www.primegrid.com/workunit.php?wuid=163868149
http://www.primegrid.com/workunit.php?wuid=143297745
http://www.primegrid.com/workunit.php?wuid=163723084
http://www.primegrid.com/workunit.php?wuid=163803878
http://www.primegrid.com/workunit.php?wuid=163723096

These are all CPU only units. Nothing to do with GPU units. That part of your answer has nothing to do with the question.

Each users has different view on what subprojects on PG or BOINC project in general are more important.


Sure. If it's all so unimportant then, why have "credits" at all? Just make each work unit completed be "1".

Really, that's not a joke. They're either unimportant, like you're saying, and not useful, or they do have some importance, in which case there's obviously some level of "which is more important than others". It's not being done based on CPU time spent.

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The "Shut up already!" badge:  This loud mouth has mansplained on the forums over 10 thousand times!  Sheesh!!!Discovered the World's First GFN-19 prime!!!Discovered 1 mega primeFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2020 Tour de Primes321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,822,730)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,005,249)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,009,577)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,145,754)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,904,458)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,197,957)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (34,291,181)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,007,110)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,276,011)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,089,728)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,195,123)321 Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,061,196)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,170,256)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,059,304)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,885,121)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,118,303)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (72,383,585)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,445,029)
Message 33656 - Posted: 2 Mar 2011 | 5:22:48 UTC - in response to Message 33655.

Credits are whatever you wish them to be. "You", in this case, can be either project admins or users.

For users, credits are sometimes analogous to the points in a game. Whoever has the most points wins. Just don't ask me what exactly it is that they're winning. :)

For other users, credits have less meaning, but are still a useful metric for comparing the computing abilities of assorted hardware.

For admins, credits are usually just a tool to encourage (some) people to compute for them. Or to compute a certain project, or in a certain fashion. GPUGRID, for example, gives you more credits for finishing their WUs within 24 or 48 hours, because that's important to their particular needs. The extra credits they hand out are, of course, worthless, but it still works as an incentive. And it does work.

The bottom line is that credits are pretty meaningless, overall.

That wasn't the original intention, of course. Originally, they were intended to represent a specific amount of processing. Over time, however, that didn't work out so well. If 1 credit represents a certain amount of FLOPS, for example, (the original definition), that works as a good metric for measuring work -- UNTIL someone writes a more efficient application to perform the same task. If two computers complete the exact same WU, they should both get the same amount of credit, right? Well, it doesn't work that way if credit is defined as a specific amount of processing, because if computer A uses one program to process the WU, and the identical computer B uses a better program that processes the WU in half the time, then computer B would get half the credit for doing the same WU.

So, over time, credit has generally been deemed to be more meaningful as a measure of the amount of "work" done.

Defining what "work" means is a lot more abstract that measuring FLOPS.

Also, with credit being defined as the amount of work completed, the ability to make any sort of meaningful comparison of credits between projects was completely lost. Comparing, say, 1 LLR test against a molecular modeling WU is meaningless when you're no longer using FLOPS as your benchmark. Similarly, comparing sub-projects here at PG against one another can also be meaningless.

Since all LLR projects here use the same software, there's some value to the credits per hour of the LLRs being similar. But comparing the credits of LLRs against the sieves really has very little meaning. Because we frequently see software improvements that can significantly speed up processing, we're left with two choices:

1) If you have new software that is twice as fast as the old software, you will now get HALF the credit for processing a WU because half as much processing is being done. Credits are defined as the amount of processing that is performed. This has the advantage of allowing you to have equal credits/hour for LLRs and sieves.

2) If the new software is twice as fast, you get the SAME credit as before, even though the WU completes in half the time. Most people prefer this definition. The downside, however, is that when comparing LLR to sieves, the one with the new software is now generating double the credits/hour as the one with the older software.
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321 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (11,773)Cullen LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (14,945)ESP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (26,855)PPS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (84,876)PSP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (15,311)SoB LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (21,440)SR5 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (29,270)SGS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (26,616)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (36,288)TRP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (41,655)Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (15,807)321 Sieve Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (20,014)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (23,405)PPS Sieve Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (36,192)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (20,306)TRP Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (21,738)GFN Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (86,217)PSA Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,143,756)
Message 33657 - Posted: 2 Mar 2011 | 5:32:33 UTC
Last modified: 2 Mar 2011 | 5:36:29 UTC

VapourLock wrote:
It's not being done based on CPU time spent.

First, you are comparing two completely separate applications: LLR vs. tpsieve. Second, you are also comparing 32 bit vs. 64 bit. And finally, you have not considered the vastly different optimization paths that these two programs have taken since their inception...or implementation at PrimeGrid.

Simply put, it's much worse than an apple vs. orange comparison. The title of this thread could easily have been "Extremely high credit for other WU types when compared to SoB" and been just as misleading. :)

However, in the big picture, now is probably a good time to mention that we'll be reviewing all of the applications used at PrimeGrid over the next couple of months to investigate "absorbing" some of those efficiencies:

  • LLR: 32 bit
  • sr2sieve: v1.8.10 (32 & 64 bit) v1.8.11 (32 & 64 bit)
  • tpsieve: 32 & 64 bit, CUDA, OpenCL
  • gcwsieve: 32 & 64 bit
  • cwsieve: CUDA


And for those inquiring minds who are interested in all the other applications used in the PSA:


  • srsieve
  • ppsieve
  • fpsieve
  • twingen
  • genefer
  • genefer80
  • genefx64
  • genefercuda
  • pfgw32
  • pfgw64
  • phrot
  • multisieve


EDIT: Looks like Michael beat me to most of this. :)
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321 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (500,863)Cullen LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (522,970)ESP LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (516,922)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (543,312)PPS LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (669,312)PSP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,019,589)SoB LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,055,482)SR5 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (522,539)SGS LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (532,524)TRP LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (564,910)Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,022,336)321 Sieve Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,398,786)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (204,463)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,015,683)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (37,926,771)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,226,498)TRP Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,515,247)AP 26/27 Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (509,418)GFN Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,506,619)PSA Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (225,555)
Message 33673 - Posted: 2 Mar 2011 | 13:13:10 UTC

An very early post by John may also help This Post

Sieves do different work than LLRs so are awarded different amounts of points.

@VapourLock
I checked your two computers and the points per hour rate for your SoBs are around 62 and 57.
For your Sieve work you are getting 261 and 245 points per hour.

Either way the 60 odd points per hour of work is very good, you try Malaria@home, EDGeS@home, Mersenne@home or even Spinhenge@home and see how many credits you are awarded.
You will then appreciate PrimeGrid and the amounts you are awarded here.

Conan
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PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (232,320)SoB LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (74,453)SGS LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (804,571)321 Sieve Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (13,319)PPS Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (9,754,711)
Message 33712 - Posted: 2 Mar 2011 | 16:31:08 UTC - in response to Message 33673.

Either way the 60 odd points per hour of work is very good, you try Malaria@home, EDGeS@home, Mersenne@home or even Spinhenge@home and see how many credits you are awarded.
You will then appreciate PrimeGrid and the amounts you are awarded here.


Thanks for your inputs. I guess I'm just not going to agree with it.

From my point of view (newbie), I really don't care about the other @home projects or whatever. I'm just considering PrimeGrid in this thread.

So, for me, when I have to choose which projects to enable for processing, I'm choosing:

a) stuff that does cuda (only Proth Prime Search is listed as cuda on the selection page, but it turns out others have cuda too)
b) something that can run on the cpu's all day, without interfering with my work

After having processed CPU only work for Proth Prime Search (Sieve) for a few days, and getting used to calculating daily amounts and stuff... then changing to SoB and after weeks of effort being given an *extremely* smaller amount of "points" was just plain disheartening.

So, the explanation that they're "different" types of things might seem ok with you guys. But really, they're both tasks running on the same CPU's, taking the same resources. From a "historical" perspective the points might be ok and all.

But, SoB is still not going to get enabled on these computers again. That's not me being petty, I just can't bring myself to enable a WU type that seems so well... disadvantaged in comparison.

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Found 1 prime in the 2020 Tour de Primes321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,419,655)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,309,957)ESP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,617,477)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,076,479)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,130,181)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,564,856)SoB LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,254,352)SR5 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,982,194)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,885,788)TPS LLR (retired) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (103,523)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,450,469)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,147,072)321 Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,598,071)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,119,699)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,278,995)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (32,663,237)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,080,177)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,221,054)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,020,744)GFN Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (32,405,744)PSA Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (34,211,039)
Message 33715 - Posted: 2 Mar 2011 | 16:45:58 UTC - in response to Message 33712.

That's plainly your choice.

The real reason behind this is the benchmarking for credit afaik.
If you ran PPS Sieve on CPU under a 32bit OS, you'd find the credit differential significantly smaller.
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Eliminated 2 conjecture "k"s321 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (549,886)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (494,859)ESP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (361,416)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (533,729)PPS LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (595,337)PSP LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (566,781)SoB LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (981,226)SR5 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (94,782)SGS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (105,953)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (163,541)Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,491,761)321 Sieve Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (82,515)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (200,096)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (85,743)PPS Sieve Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (733,035)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (20,039)TRP Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (100,597)AP 26/27 Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (275,545)GFN Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,892,660)PSA Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (211,837)
Message 33716 - Posted: 2 Mar 2011 | 16:47:10 UTC - in response to Message 33712.

The lower payout for LLR is part of the reason for Badge level point differences vs. Sieve. Sieve also has a premium since no hope of finding a Prime there!
In any case, crunch what you want (do not feel pressured to crunch it all!), when you want.
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Discovered 2 mega primesFound 2 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 12 primes in the 2020 Tour de Primes321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,558,268)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,287,148)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,174,327)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,028,260)PPS LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (40,149,171)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,151,448)SoB LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,014,268)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (14,871,275)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,860,522)TRP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,130,742)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,036,418)321 Sieve Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (101,538,236)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (127,922,665)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (30,984,158)PPS Sieve Double Ruby: Earned 2,000,000,000 credits (2,840,173,136)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,134,964)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,013,696)AP 26/27 Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (276,723,135)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (248,449,567)PSA Double Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000,000 credits (1,370,700,486)
Message 33723 - Posted: 2 Mar 2011 | 18:27:55 UTC - in response to Message 33716.

In any case, crunch what you want (do not feel pressured to crunch it all!), when you want.


Thanks Murphy, that's Aggie the Pew's team motto :)
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The "Shut up already!" badge:  This loud mouth has mansplained on the forums over 10 thousand times!  Sheesh!!!Discovered the World's First GFN-19 prime!!!Discovered 1 mega primeFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2020 Tour de Primes321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,822,730)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,005,249)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,009,577)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,145,754)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,904,458)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,197,957)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (34,291,181)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,007,110)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,276,011)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,089,728)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,195,123)321 Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,061,196)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,170,256)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,059,304)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,885,121)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,118,303)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (72,383,585)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,445,029)
Message 33727 - Posted: 2 Mar 2011 | 18:56:21 UTC - in response to Message 33712.

But, SoB is still not going to get enabled on these computers again. That's not me being petty, I just can't bring myself to enable a WU type that seems so well... disadvantaged in comparison.



I think you're skipping a step there. If it were me, I'd first ask myself, "What is my goal in participating?"

* If you want to get the most credits as possible, run the PPS Sieve on your GPU. Unless you have a very slow GPU and a very fast CPU, it pretty much doesn't matter what you do on the CPU because the GPU is going to be so much more productive. PPS Sieve currently benefits from not only some incredible advances in GPU technology, but the CUDA program for PPS Sieve is superbly optimized and cranks out those sieve WUs incredibly fast. A single high-end Fermi card can crank out more than a half million credits per day.

* If you want to find as many prime numbers as possible, or to get your name on the "top 5000 primes" list, you should run PPS LLR and/or SGS LLR. Those produce the most primes.

* If you want a chance (albeit a very small chance) of finding some HUGE prime numbers (with millions of digits), run the 321, Woodhall, Cullen, PSP, or SoB types of LLR projects.

* If you want to help solve some long standing mathematical problems, run the PSP LLR, SoB LLR, TRP LLR or TRP Sieve projects.

* If you want to help the overall effort to find prime numbers, run any of the sieve projects. You won't actually find prime numbers while sieving, but the sieving needs to get done to make the prime finding (LLR) more effective.

* If you want lots of pretty colored pixels next to your name (i.e., badges), run a little bit of everything.


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Discovered 2 mega primesFound 2 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 12 primes in the 2020 Tour de Primes321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,558,268)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,287,148)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,174,327)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,028,260)PPS LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (40,149,171)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,151,448)SoB LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,014,268)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (14,871,275)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,860,522)TRP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,130,742)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,036,418)321 Sieve Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (101,538,236)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (127,922,665)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (30,984,158)PPS Sieve Double Ruby: Earned 2,000,000,000 credits (2,840,173,136)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,134,964)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,013,696)AP 26/27 Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (276,723,135)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (248,449,567)PSA Double Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000,000 credits (1,370,700,486)
Message 33737 - Posted: 2 Mar 2011 | 19:39:42 UTC
Last modified: 2 Mar 2011 | 19:42:05 UTC

I know John said they are going to be working on adjusting the credits in the next couple of months but maybe it would be nice if someone in the know laid out how the credits (cobblestones) are actually calculated and why since I'm sure the original formula has been adjusted some over time. That might help new people and myself understand just a tad better.

Example of a perceived issue. "Credits are calculated on processing time or use". With this example I know that can't be the case since the credits for pps sieve are the same for both the cpu and gpu. So the next thought that comes to mind would be that the credits for each sub project are just an arbitrary number that was developed some how. And again that might not be accurate. So it's easy to understand how someone very new to this project might be confused.

Anyway, just a thought.

Rick
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The "Shut up already!" badge:  This loud mouth has mansplained on the forums over 10 thousand times!  Sheesh!!!Discovered the World's First GFN-19 prime!!!Discovered 1 mega primeFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2020 Tour de Primes321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,822,730)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,005,249)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,009,577)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,145,754)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,904,458)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,197,957)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (34,291,181)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,007,110)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,276,011)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,089,728)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,195,123)321 Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,061,196)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,170,256)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,059,304)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,885,121)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,118,303)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (72,383,585)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,445,029)
Message 33738 - Posted: 2 Mar 2011 | 19:59:40 UTC - in response to Message 33727.

BTW, lest I sounded way too condescending, here are *my* goals, in no particular order:

1) Get at least a silver badge on all active CPU projects (2 to go), and the ruby badge on all active GPU projects (1 to go). Yup, I'm in it for the pretty pixels! (On a side note, I'm bummed that I can't get a badge in the now-defunct TPS project.)

2) Find at least one prime number. (Done)

3) Help solve the three Sierpinski problems (SoB, PSP, ESP) and the similar Riesel problem (TRP LLR and sieve). It would be really cool to find one of those primes and knock another k off the list, but even if I don't, I'm contributing to the overall effort by computing for a composite number, which allows someone else to eventually find a prime.

4) Participate in the challenges to help my team "win". Not sure why, but I like to win.

5) Get as many credits as possible. I have no clue why this is important to me, as I'm always the first one to say this is silly, but... it is.
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321 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (11,773)Cullen LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (14,945)ESP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (26,855)PPS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (84,876)PSP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (15,311)SoB LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (21,440)SR5 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (29,270)SGS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (26,616)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (36,288)TRP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (41,655)Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (15,807)321 Sieve Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (20,014)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (23,405)PPS Sieve Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (36,192)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (20,306)TRP Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (21,738)GFN Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (86,217)PSA Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,143,756)
Message 33740 - Posted: 2 Mar 2011 | 20:54:37 UTC - in response to Message 33737.

...it would be nice if someone in the know laid out how the credits (cobblestones) are actually calculated and why since I'm sure the original formula has been adjusted some over time. That might help new people and myself understand just a tad better.

Here's a primer to start your journey down the rabbit hole. ;)

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Discovered 2 mega primesFound 2 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 12 primes in the 2020 Tour de Primes321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,558,268)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,287,148)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,174,327)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,028,260)PPS LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (40,149,171)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,151,448)SoB LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,014,268)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (14,871,275)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,860,522)TRP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,130,742)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,036,418)321 Sieve Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (101,538,236)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (127,922,665)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (30,984,158)PPS Sieve Double Ruby: Earned 2,000,000,000 credits (2,840,173,136)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,134,964)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,013,696)AP 26/27 Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (276,723,135)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (248,449,567)PSA Double Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000,000 credits (1,370,700,486)
Message 33742 - Posted: 2 Mar 2011 | 21:10:58 UTC - in response to Message 33740.


Here's a primer to start your journey down the rabbit hole. ;)

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lol that will only open up a whole new conversation. If I read it even close to right then the current credits are off because of the differences in cpu/gpu and 32/64 bit hence your move to adjust in the next couple of months.

I guess another question would be why are sieves and llr's scored differently if the work is done on the same platform? So somewhere there's an adjuster to the credits to make that happen?

I will read it over again and maybe enlist the help of the much smarter people here to further explain it.

thanks for the link however... as the rabbit disappears down the hole
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321 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (11,773)Cullen LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (14,945)ESP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (26,855)PPS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (84,876)PSP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (15,311)SoB LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (21,440)SR5 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (29,270)SGS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (26,616)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (36,288)TRP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (41,655)Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (15,807)321 Sieve Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (20,014)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (23,405)PPS Sieve Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (36,192)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (20,306)TRP Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (21,738)GFN Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (86,217)PSA Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,143,756)
Message 33745 - Posted: 2 Mar 2011 | 22:00:15 UTC - in response to Message 33742.

I guess another question would be why are sieves and llr's scored differently if the work is done on the same platform? So somewhere there's an adjuster to the credits to make that happen?

First, there's no 64 bit LLR application which the sieves take advantage of. Second, the optimization achieved in the sieves over the past 4 years greatly exceeds that achieved with LLR...even with the recent 20% improvement in speed for the LLR.

While we don't have a 64 bit LLR application, an llrCUDA might be around the corner. It is marginally faster than LLR CPU at lower n's but really shines bright with the higher n's. An ideal match for SoB and PSP. But don't get your hopes up too much. Currently it still uses about 90% of a core to run.
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321 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,057,615)Cullen LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (571,506)ESP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (185,054)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (460,220)PPS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,154,429)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,190,174)SoB LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,201,813)SR5 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (292,115)SGS LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (747,595)TRP LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (675,047)Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,210,464)321 Sieve Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,016,453)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (25,001,013)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (16,858,065)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (65,684,329)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (21,004,347)TRP Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,080,762)AP 26/27 Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,177,651)GFN Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,325,889)PSA Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (267,901,478)
Message 33747 - Posted: 2 Mar 2011 | 22:28:52 UTC - in response to Message 33745.
Last modified: 2 Mar 2011 | 23:23:03 UTC


While we don't have a 64 bit LLR application, an llrCUDA might be around the corner. It is marginally faster than LLR CPU at lower n's but really shines bright with the higher n's. An ideal match for SoB and PSP. But don't get your hopes up too much. Currently it still uses about 90% of a core to run.



I like that kind of news. ;)

Eh, little of topic, but this is very interesing subject.
Which project (llr) will definitely not be on gpu or it would be very ineffective? PPS, SGS i think, but rest should be decent, right?

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Discovered 7 mega primesEliminated 4 conjecture "k"sFound 2 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de Primes Mountain Stage2019 Tour de Primes largest primeFound 4 primes in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2019 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de Primes Mountain StageFound 1 prime in the 2020 Tour de Primes321 LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (62,020,570)Cullen LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,296,190)ESP LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,853,190)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,309,119)PPS LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (114,485,312)PSP LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,563,867)SoB LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (87,974,002)SR5 LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (101,883,529)SGS LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (53,154,727)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (43,033)TRP LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (78,000,928)Woodall LLR Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,956,094)321 Sieve Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (114,460,941)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,142,109)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,504,945)PPS Sieve Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (513,057,580)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,288,222)TRP Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,149,354)AP 26/27 Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (219,682,055)GFN Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (717,020,824)PSA Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (535,232,795)
Message 33757 - Posted: 3 Mar 2011 | 7:50:41 UTC - in response to Message 33747.

Eh, little of topic, but this is very interesing subject.
Which project (llr) will definitely not be on gpu or it would be very ineffective? PPS, SGS i think, but rest should be decent, right?

Depends on what GPU (+single core CPU) you are willing to put on LLR.

We are comparing latest CPU vs latest GPU. 3 years old C2D CPU is faster than 3 years old GPU. Also take into account that you can have 4-cores CPU doing 3-5x more LLR than single GPU (needing single CPU core) on llrCUDA.
But developement and optimalization is still ongoing process..

GPUs might also come handy to double/tripple-check large primes.
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321 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,057,615)Cullen LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (571,506)ESP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (185,054)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (460,220)PPS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,154,429)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,190,174)SoB LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,201,813)SR5 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (292,115)SGS LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (747,595)TRP LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (675,047)Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,210,464)321 Sieve Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,016,453)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (25,001,013)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (16,858,065)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (65,684,329)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (21,004,347)TRP Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,080,762)AP 26/27 Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,177,651)GFN Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,325,889)PSA Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (267,901,478)
Message 33760 - Posted: 3 Mar 2011 | 9:43:05 UTC - in response to Message 33757.

Eh, little of topic, but this is very interesing subject.
Which project (llr) will definitely not be on gpu or it would be very ineffective? PPS, SGS i think, but rest should be decent, right?

Depends on what GPU (+single core CPU) you are willing to put on LLR.


Fermi 570 and c2q q9550. I want change my hardware and i don't know what to buy in future, more cpu core (sandy bridge) or gpu and wait for llr cuda.

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321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (108,524)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (100,564)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (195,404)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (126,204)SoB LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (115,856)SGS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (123,178)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (117,718)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (113,429)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (14,172,059)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (30,595,306)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (147,823)TRP Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (259,240)AP 26/27 Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (11,038)GFN Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,717,226)
Message 53548 - Posted: 29 Apr 2012 | 18:37:10 UTC
Last modified: 29 Apr 2012 | 18:52:53 UTC

[back to topic]
imho there could be a fairly and easy way for counting points:

1. Choose a PG-refferersystem (i.e. a Q6600 with a CUDA and ATI card)
2. crunch all different tasks and publish the time of that WUs as refferer in a sticky thread
3. give i.e. 3000 point for every 24h independly of the task because time is energy and energy is money

The result would be: All task would be worth to crunch and very long tasks give higher badges at once. (i.e. genefer long gives about 300.000 atm) If some like more credits in time, he has to pimp up his soft- and hardware, so its faster than the referersystem and reach more than 3000 points in 24h.
i.e.: One core of my 8150 needs aprox 27h for pps sieve. If I set it into relation to the refferer system it could be slower or faster and so I would have a direct comperison, how fast my machine realy is. Same mechanics for CUDA/ATI: If someone doesnt want to use GPUs (because of the price or energy costs) he will reach +/-3000 point per 24h with a singelecore instead of 300.000 with a modern GPU. (all in comparison to the fixed refferer system). At least this fairly system would make SOB as interesting as all other tasks.

Badges are important, too. Its the game-effect or "olympic affair" wich build the motivation to get them. (Hey, who said that science must be dry and not funny? ;))
Perhaps some new badges could motivate more ... i.e. for people who crunch with very old hardware, because they spend a lot of energy and time in PG (in relation to their points) and have much patience. So there could be badges for i.e. Pentium-4 or ADM64 CPUs and older stuff wich people like me never can reach with my newer hardware as long I dont reactivate an old machine. ;) It should be no problem for the dbase to filter it. The score of this "oldschool-badges" could be: Years of PG-Membership * so far reaching points with that old machines. (i.e. 3 years * 10.000 points so far = score 30.000) That would be fair, too, because not everyone can buy the newest hardware. (or think about all the Atom Netbooks out there ;)

Last but not least: Science. It is important to explain, what the WUs computes, so also laymen can understand it. PG has a WIKI and thats fine for people who want to learn more about primes.

best regards,
ritch
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ritch

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321 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (547,769)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (158,867)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (162,534)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (134,373)SoB LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (510,012)SR5 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (266,757)SGS LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (510,560)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (242,439)Woodall LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (508,989)321 Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (200,123)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (229,801)PPS Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,317,221)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (21,147)TRP Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (333,494)AP 26/27 Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (24,117)GFN Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,730,320)
Message 53560 - Posted: 30 Apr 2012 | 9:47:36 UTC - in response to Message 53548.

For over a year I have been using a spreadsheet to find mean run times, credit, credit per day/hour, time/WU to the next badge and such like.

I could post the results but they are never going to be accurate, some projects I have not run recently so credit and run times will have changed, some were run on one machine, some on another and some on both, PPS sieve is running on a GPU etc.

However I can say that credit does vary from project to project, SGS I found the worst paying.

This is not a complaint, just an observation of the way things are.

SOB has other advantages -- You can load work and forget it for many days (ideal if you have a rarely connected dial-up or if you are going away and do not want to leave the connection running); you cannot get SOB badges without running it and if you find a prime it will be big.

Whether you run it or not is up to you, credit rate, I expect, will be only one of the factors in your choice, but if that is your main aim then I agree SOB is not for you. If you want fast jobs, quick crediting or rapid wingman confirmations then it is not the one for you either!!
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321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (108,524)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (100,564)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (195,404)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (126,204)SoB LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (115,856)SGS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (123,178)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (117,718)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (113,429)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (14,172,059)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (30,595,306)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (147,823)TRP Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (259,240)AP 26/27 Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (11,038)GFN Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,717,226)
Message 53587 - Posted: 30 Apr 2012 | 19:28:17 UTC
Last modified: 30 Apr 2012 | 19:45:50 UTC

Hi Dave

Because of that my suggestion is a fixed refferer system as I wrote before. PG would only have to collect the results of that PC, publish them in a list and declare it as an official refferer to compute the points for all other machines in comparison to the time they need. As long someone use the same machine as the refferer system he wil get aprox the same points per day. If someone uses better, newer, faster machines he will get naturaly much more points in time. At least it would be a general question of the core-number, OC, OS and some advantages features of CPUs.
That would imho be fair for all crunchers and all projects - and the refferer could be a mid-range Q6600 using one of 4 Cores, ATI and CUDA tasks for example.
At the end of this, you will allways find a wingman (quickly) in all projects (SOB included).

PS: I crunch mostly all WUs I can get because my cores must have something to do while the GPUs produce the points for rankings and RAC. ;)

best regards and greetings to the other side of the world,
ritch (team fv-verlag-group Germany)
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ritch

101*2^382407+1 <-my lucky number

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321 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,446,317)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,100,744)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,192,394)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,159,526)PPS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,307,875)PSP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,408,711)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,944,219)SR5 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,467,485)SGS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,085,939)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,630,136)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,035,102)321 Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,146,795)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,190,376)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,651,496)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (221,565,496)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,591,642)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,819,072)AP 26/27 Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,150,876)GFN Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (22,745,636)PSA Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (38,445,145)
Message 54470 - Posted: 13 May 2012 | 22:54:46 UTC
Last modified: 13 May 2012 | 22:58:43 UTC

Seems like all of my SoB WUs validating now are hitting the 17000 credit cap. Predictably, here are my two thoughts:

1. Are a lot of people seeing this?

2. Should the cap be reviewed?

Actually I seem to remember getting far fewer crdits in the past, but I can't remember how much work they involved. Different PCs too, anyway.

Message boards : Seventeen or Bust : Extremely low credit for SoB when compared to other WU types?

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