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Message boards : Prime Sierpinski Problem : Credit Cap?

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Profile Michael GoetzProject donor
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Joined: 21 Jan 10
Posts: 12700
ID: 53948
Credit: 185,041,413
RAC: 161,951
The "Shut up already!" badge:  This loud mouth has mansplained on the forums over 10 thousand times!  Sheesh!!!Discovered the World's First GFN-19 prime!!!Discovered 1 mega primeFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de Primes321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,063,182)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,005,249)ESP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,277,152)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,145,754)PPS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,773,744)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,632,269)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (34,158,496)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,293,415)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,012,222)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,737,347)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,195,123)321 Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,046,112)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,170,256)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,059,304)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,110,788)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,090,096)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (64,594,991)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,597,947)
Message 21954 - Posted: 19 Mar 2010 | 21:42:28 UTC

I just completed a long PSP LLR WU -- some 200+ hours on a slow computer -- and seem to have received somewhat less credit than would be expected based on the credit given for the shorter PSP LLR WUs.

Judging by what I've seen so far, the credit seems to be along the lines of the average claimed credit * 1.5. There appears to be a limiting cap, however.

For this long WU, one computer claimed 2060 credits and the other claimed 2142. Based upon the amount of credits granted for the shorter PSP WUs, I would have expected somewhere between 2500 and 4000 credits, as this WU ran 3 to 4 times longer than the others. However, the credit that was granted was exactly 1800.

Is there a cap on the amount of credit that's granted, and, if so, is that cap adequate for the WUs currently being generated?


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Posts: 65
ID: 20435
Credit: 5,292,035
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321 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (32,523)Cullen LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (65,899)PPS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (51,073)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (153,830)SoB LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (130,518)SGS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (11,932)TRP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (11,021)Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (72,422)321 Sieve Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (20,249)PPS Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,272,923)TRP Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (14,237)AP 26/27 Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (42,002)GFN Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,849,821)PSA Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (535,987)
Message 21960 - Posted: 20 Mar 2010 | 7:33:28 UTC

I haven't seen credits amount for CLLR, WLLR and PSPLLR bigger than 1800 anytime, so I think there is some gap...

SoB is an exception, of course.
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Credit: 2,681,934
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321 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (11,773)Cullen LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (14,945)ESP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (26,855)PPS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (84,876)PSP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (15,311)SoB LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (21,440)SR5 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (29,270)SGS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (26,616)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (36,288)TRP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (41,655)Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (15,807)321 Sieve Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (20,014)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (23,405)PPS Sieve Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (36,192)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (20,306)TRP Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (21,738)GFN Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (86,217)PSA Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,143,756)
Message 22027 - Posted: 22 Mar 2010 | 17:48:56 UTC - in response to Message 21954.

Is there a cap on the amount of credit that's granted, and, if so, is that cap adequate for the WUs currently being generated?

Yes, there are caps for all projects. We'll review them to see if they remain adequate.

____________

Michael
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Joined: 8 Apr 11
Posts: 1
ID: 94102
Credit: 55,355,113
RAC: 20,329
321 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (95,173)Cullen LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (14,051)PPS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (16,099)PSP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (28,637)SoB LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (52,536)TRP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (63,166)Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (21,473)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (199,727)PPS Sieve Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (50,845,917)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (192,742)TRP Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (105,472)GFN Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,718,282)
Message 38597 - Posted: 22 Jul 2011 | 19:56:14 UTC - in response to Message 22027.

What about these credits? 4+ times the CPU time of another project but the same credit! Why bother doing these if the credits are the same.Have another one coming up and then will uncheck project unless it changes. Thanks

Name

psp_llr_93056457_0



Workunit

195288399



Created

10 Jul 2011 | 11:52:04 UTC



Sent

10 Jul 2011 | 21:57:03 UTC



Received

19 Jul 2011 | 3:34:27 UTC



Server state

Over



Outcome

Success



Client state

Done



Exit status

0 (0x0)



Computer ID

195899



Report deadline

31 Jul 2011 | 21:57:03 UTC



Run time

301,058.76



CPU time

285,896.01



Validate state

Valid



Credit

3,947.42



Application version

Prime Sierpinski Problem (LLR) v6.09

Profile Reuben GathrightProject donor
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Joined: 31 Mar 06
Posts: 9
ID: 2620
Credit: 35,532,632
RAC: 0
PPS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,501,888)PSP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (96,474)SGS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (95,404)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (240,066)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (24,230,206)PPS Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,362,058)
Message 38841 - Posted: 1 Aug 2011 | 11:57:08 UTC
Last modified: 1 Aug 2011 | 11:57:46 UTC

I asked this same question recently and was "attacked" or "politically corrected" with the "It's for the greater good" argument.

Guess admin/cronies here think us CPU crunchers are sheeple. :)

You can draw your own conclusions about empathy for our efforts by visiting this thread: http://www.primegrid.com/forum_thread.php?id=2891&nowrap=true#38462
____________

Profile j.sheridanProject donor
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Posts: 437
ID: 91622
Credit: 679,433,675
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321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,002,360)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,040,127)PPS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,146,102)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,432,836)SoB LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,623,361)SR5 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (640,957)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,053,556)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,826,598)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,123,627)321 Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (237,768)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (265,102,350)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (292,642,933)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,801,812)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (82,759,285)
Message 42291 - Posted: 28 Oct 2011 | 16:38:44 UTC - in response to Message 22027.

I think it's time to review the cap on this project. The WUs now take around 4 days to run on an i7 but are limited to 4500 credits. Based on the other projects this should actually be around 6000-7000.

Noppy
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Joined: 12 Nov 10
Posts: 2
ID: 73007
Credit: 1,112,646,780
RAC: 719,256
321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,543,451)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,839,525)ESP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,027,363)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,537,097)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,249,040)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,071,627)SoB LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (9,519,149)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (9,856,027)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,174,273)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,638,987)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,591,936)321 Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,972,915)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (38,121,202)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,070,822)PPS Sieve Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (876,266,167)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,501,157)TRP Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,243,032)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (13,823,017)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (85,609,175)
Message 43199 - Posted: 14 Nov 2011 | 17:43:17 UTC

I got 5238.15 credit for a PSP LLR WU recently. The cap on PSP project seems to be changed.

Profile MartyProject donor
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Joined: 21 Jul 07
Posts: 31
ID: 9981
Credit: 188,066,657
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321 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (894,688)Cullen LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,160,501)ESP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (230,160)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (270,427)PPS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,076,407)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,725,659)SoB LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,670,175)SR5 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (477,137)SGS LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (731,588)TRP LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (741,435)Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,283,903)321 Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (367,318)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,850,738)PPS Sieve Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (137,285,493)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (702,124)TRP Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,511,019)AP 26/27 Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (408,816)GFN Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (26,772,350)PSA Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (906,451)
Message 57459 - Posted: 3 Sep 2012 | 11:40:12 UTC

Have we hit a credit cap here? I got 6,000 for all my last WUs.

Profile j.sheridanProject donor
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Joined: 21 Mar 11
Posts: 437
ID: 91622
Credit: 679,433,675
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321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,002,360)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,040,127)PPS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,146,102)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,432,836)SoB LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,623,361)SR5 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (640,957)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,053,556)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,826,598)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,123,627)321 Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (237,768)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (265,102,350)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (292,642,933)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,801,812)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (82,759,285)
Message 57463 - Posted: 3 Sep 2012 | 12:34:20 UTC - in response to Message 57459.

Have we hit a credit cap here? I got 6,000 for all my last WUs.


I think more of an issue than the cap is the huge variability in credits (and not just for PSP) - anywhere from 4700 - 6000 for the same amount of work.

Profile Michael GoetzProject donor
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Credit: 185,041,413
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The "Shut up already!" badge:  This loud mouth has mansplained on the forums over 10 thousand times!  Sheesh!!!Discovered the World's First GFN-19 prime!!!Discovered 1 mega primeFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de Primes321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,063,182)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,005,249)ESP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,277,152)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,145,754)PPS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,773,744)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,632,269)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (34,158,496)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,293,415)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,012,222)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,737,347)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,195,123)321 Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,046,112)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,170,256)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,059,304)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,110,788)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,090,096)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (64,594,991)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,597,947)
Message 57464 - Posted: 3 Sep 2012 | 13:00:41 UTC

With regards to the cap, I'm not directly involved, but I know there is a cap, and it needs to be raised periodically. I've let Rytis know about it, but he's been busy with other things right now so I can't guess when this might be addressed. You'll need to be patient.

As for the variability of the credits, yeah, tell me about it. To paraphrase an old saying, "It's the worst imaginable credit system -- except for all the rest."

Essentially there's two ways to grant credit. Either the project determines how much credit each WU is worth, or the client computers measure how much crunching they do and the credit is based on their CPU time multiplied by how fast the CPU is.

By far, the first method is the best method. We use it for the sieves, which are a consistent amount of work so each WU takes the same amount of time and yields the same credit. It's also used for GFN because there's a very reliable formula for estimating the amount of work that needs to be done for each number. We know exactly how much crunching is needed for each WU, so the project assigns the credit, but it's different for each WU.

But that method only works if you can accurately predict how much processing each WU will consume. With LLR, there isn't an accurate way to do that because it optimizes the calculations which results in unpredictable jumps in computation time. Furthermore, the program behaves differently on different CPUs because it's optimized at the assembler level for various CPU architectures. It's therefore impossible for the server to predict how long it will take to compute. We need to use plan B, which relies on A) an accurate measurement of the CPU time used by each computer, and B) accurate benchmark timings on those computers, which is used to determine how fast the computer is.

There's tons of problems with that method, not the least of which is that the benchmarks are awful. They do not represent LLR very well, and they are not consistent between operating systems. The end result is that there's a lot of variability in the credit.


____________
Please do not PM me with support questions. Ask on the forums instead. Thank you!

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Profile j.sheridanProject donor
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Joined: 21 Mar 11
Posts: 437
ID: 91622
Credit: 679,433,675
RAC: 0
321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,002,360)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,040,127)PPS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,146,102)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,432,836)SoB LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,623,361)SR5 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (640,957)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,053,556)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,826,598)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,123,627)321 Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (237,768)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (265,102,350)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (292,642,933)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,801,812)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (82,759,285)
Message 57467 - Posted: 3 Sep 2012 | 13:51:26 UTC - in response to Message 57464.

There's tons of problems with that method, not the least of which is that the benchmarks are awful. They do not represent LLR very well, and they are not consistent between operating systems. The end result is that there's a lot of variability in the credit.



hyperthreading is a good example of the problem. CPU benchmarks with hyperthreading on or off are identical.
However with it on the WUs take longer and end up getting more credit.

eg: with HT off I can run 4 PSPs in around 100k seconds and maybe get 3-4000 credits/WU.
with HT on I can run 8PSPs in 200k seconds (so same units / time) but because it appears from the benchmarks to have done twice as much work I will then get on average around 5500 credits/WU.

[DPC]Charley
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ID: 95137
Credit: 94,979,517
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321 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,009,885)Cullen LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,440,123)ESP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,008,511)PPS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,389,215)PSP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,080,442)SoB LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,143,918)SR5 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,853,162)SGS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,344,963)TRP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,140,037)Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,130,355)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,038,617)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (36,643,348)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,000,717)TRP Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,298,244)GFN Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (17,332,530)PSA Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,125,451)
Message 57468 - Posted: 3 Sep 2012 | 13:53:55 UTC - in response to Message 57464.

....
We use it for the sieves, which are a consistent amount of work so each WU takes the same amount of time and yields the same credit. ...


I beg to differ, see this topic I opened with regards to funky task times in TRP Sieve.
____________
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Profile Michael GoetzProject donor
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Joined: 21 Jan 10
Posts: 12700
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Credit: 185,041,413
RAC: 161,951
The "Shut up already!" badge:  This loud mouth has mansplained on the forums over 10 thousand times!  Sheesh!!!Discovered the World's First GFN-19 prime!!!Discovered 1 mega primeFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de Primes321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,063,182)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,005,249)ESP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,277,152)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,145,754)PPS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,773,744)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,632,269)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (34,158,496)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,293,415)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,012,222)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,737,347)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,195,123)321 Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,046,112)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,170,256)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,059,304)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,110,788)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,090,096)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (64,594,991)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,597,947)
Message 57469 - Posted: 3 Sep 2012 | 14:03:02 UTC

The cap is now 8000. So much for patience.
____________
Please do not PM me with support questions. Ask on the forums instead. Thank you!

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Credit: 185,041,413
RAC: 161,951
The "Shut up already!" badge:  This loud mouth has mansplained on the forums over 10 thousand times!  Sheesh!!!Discovered the World's First GFN-19 prime!!!Discovered 1 mega primeFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de Primes321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,063,182)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,005,249)ESP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,277,152)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,145,754)PPS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,773,744)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,632,269)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (34,158,496)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,293,415)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,012,222)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,737,347)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,195,123)321 Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,046,112)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,170,256)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,059,304)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,110,788)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,090,096)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (64,594,991)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,597,947)
Message 57470 - Posted: 3 Sep 2012 | 14:07:32 UTC - in response to Message 57468.

....
We use it for the sieves, which are a consistent amount of work so each WU takes the same amount of time and yields the same credit. ...


I beg to differ, see this topic I opened with regards to funky task times in TRP Sieve.


There's clearly something odd there, but what I said still is true. I suspect there were just some strange WUs in there.

I have no idea what's up with that sieve, but I'll see if I can't get someone interested in answering your question.
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Joined: 21 Jul 07
Posts: 31
ID: 9981
Credit: 188,066,657
RAC: 17
321 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (894,688)Cullen LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,160,501)ESP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (230,160)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (270,427)PPS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,076,407)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,725,659)SoB LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,670,175)SR5 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (477,137)SGS LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (731,588)TRP LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (741,435)Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,283,903)321 Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (367,318)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,850,738)PPS Sieve Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (137,285,493)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (702,124)TRP Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,511,019)AP 26/27 Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (408,816)GFN Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (26,772,350)PSA Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (906,451)
Message 57472 - Posted: 3 Sep 2012 | 17:12:12 UTC - in response to Message 57464.
Last modified: 3 Sep 2012 | 17:12:47 UTC


But that method only works if you can accurately predict how much processing each WU will consume. With LLR, there isn't an accurate way to do that because it optimizes the calculations which results in unpredictable jumps in computation time. Furthermore, the program behaves differently on different CPUs because it's optimized at the assembler level for various CPU architectures. It's therefore impossible for the server to predict how long it will take to compute.

Well another way could be to somehow count the real computation step done be the client (e.g. number of FFT calculations or depth of those...) and assign those steps a certain credit value. The number of steps could be reported when the WU finishes, ideally somehow encrypted to prevent foul play, and then the server could assign the credit. I neither a very good programmer nor a really good mathematician to guess on the implementation effort or even the feasibility for something like this for PG, but as far as i know it's way it's done at some other projects.

@admins: Thanks for the quick adjustment of the credit cap. Really appreciated.

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Joined: 21 Jan 10
Posts: 12700
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Credit: 185,041,413
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The "Shut up already!" badge:  This loud mouth has mansplained on the forums over 10 thousand times!  Sheesh!!!Discovered the World's First GFN-19 prime!!!Discovered 1 mega primeFound 1 prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de Primes321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,063,182)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,005,249)ESP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,277,152)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,145,754)PPS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,773,744)PSP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,632,269)SoB LLR Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (34,158,496)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,293,415)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,012,222)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,737,347)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,195,123)321 Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,046,112)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,170,256)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,059,304)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,110,788)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,522)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,051,121)AP 26/27 Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,090,096)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (64,594,991)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,597,947)
Message 57474 - Posted: 3 Sep 2012 | 19:49:47 UTC - in response to Message 57472.

That might be possible, but it would certainly require that Jean Penne modify LLR to support collecting those metrics, and possibly George Woltman would need to do the same for the gwnum library.


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Joined: 4 Feb 09
Posts: 635
ID: 35074
Credit: 126,296,992
RAC: 2,483
321 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,063,954)Cullen LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (665,748)ESP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,025,432)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (589,484)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,588,756)PSP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,134,556)SoB LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,064,898)SR5 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,043,015)SGS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,078,249)TRP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,026,807)Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,042,977)321 Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,096,785)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,911,344)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,077,092)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (45,225,274)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,034,014)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,070,774)AP 26/27 Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,913,157)GFN Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,388,283)PSA Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (47,256,391)
Message 57479 - Posted: 4 Sep 2012 | 5:42:49 UTC - in response to Message 57474.

I am also guessing that collecting those metrics would slow down the program...which we wouldn't necessarily want to do just so that credit assignment could be more consistent...
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