PrimeGrid
Please visit donation page to help the project cover running costs for this month

Toggle Menu

Join PrimeGrid

Returning Participants

Community

Leader Boards

Results

Other

drummers-lowrise

Advanced search

Message boards : Number crunching : BOINC crediting and benchmarking

Author Message
Profile CarnalProject donor
Send message
Joined: 27 Nov 07
Posts: 11
ID: 15325
Credit: 145,833,668
RAC: 0
321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (106,746)PPS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (29,484)PSP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (50,274)Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (27,148)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (322,076)PPS Sieve Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (144,695,327)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (332,729)AP 26/27 Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (270,040)
Message 10232 - Posted: 22 Aug 2008 | 11:51:15 UTC
Last modified: 22 Aug 2008 | 11:53:29 UTC

Today evening i'am out of the race, because it doesn't make any sense to run a challenge against cheater clients.
P4 machines are earning more points then latest c2d, quads or Xeons. *crazy*

No thanks to this!

Profile Sysadm@NbgProject donor
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester
Project scientist
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 5 Feb 08
Posts: 1165
ID: 18646
Credit: 429,656,684
RAC: 33,263
Found 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de Primes321 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,049,101)Cullen LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,065,659)ESP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,658,417)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,216,209)PPS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,664,976)PSP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,076,339)SoB LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,603,584)SR5 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,762,093)SGS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,108,426)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,594,095)Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,323,182)321 Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,002,108)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,967,439)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,137,451)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (224,218,383)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (627,444)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,956,401)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (15,718,771)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (64,937,531)PSA Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (86,964,270)
Message 10233 - Posted: 22 Aug 2008 | 12:23:35 UTC
Last modified: 22 Aug 2008 | 12:24:04 UTC

and now we discuss to stop challenging !!
we are challenging with fair play against AF last one
we are not challenging without fair play against SUSA this time
my opinion, others will follow ...
____________
Sysadm@Nbg
my current lucky number: 3651*2^1521717+1
PSA-PRPNet-Stats-URL: http://u-g-f.de/PRPNet/

Profile [XTBA>XTC] FRED
Send message
Joined: 18 Apr 07
Posts: 13
ID: 7300
Credit: 18,673,448
RAC: 0
321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,145,352)Cullen LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (18,637)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,367,588)PSP LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (531,525)SoB LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (16,752)SGS LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (507,663)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (12,377)TRP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (12,957)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (103,546)321 Sieve Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,201,404)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (455,502)PPS Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,194,357)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,768,583)TRP Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,009,960)AP 26/27 Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,328,027)
Message 10236 - Posted: 22 Aug 2008 | 13:07:52 UTC - in response to Message 10233.

and now we discuss to stop challenging !!
we are challenging with fair play against AF last one
we are not challenging without fair play against SUSA this time
my opinion, others will follow ...


What's the problem !! I don't understand what is fair-play or not ?? Is somebody cheating here ?? I don't like cheating so tell more or nothing please .

Profile CarnalProject donor
Send message
Joined: 27 Nov 07
Posts: 11
ID: 15325
Credit: 145,833,668
RAC: 0
321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (106,746)PPS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (29,484)PSP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (50,274)Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (27,148)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (322,076)PPS Sieve Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (144,695,327)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (332,729)AP 26/27 Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (270,040)
Message 10237 - Posted: 22 Aug 2008 | 13:33:21 UTC - in response to Message 10236.
Last modified: 22 Aug 2008 | 13:43:43 UTC

and now we discuss to stop challenging !!
we are challenging with fair play against AF last one
we are not challenging without fair play against SUSA this time
my opinion, others will follow ...


What's the problem !! I don't understand what is fair-play or not ?? Is somebody cheating here ?? I don't like cheating so tell more or nothing please .

Look only to the top teams machines and you know what is cheating and is not. It was fine last month to have against AF a nice and clearly fair race but now a few things changed and i am out.

P4/WIN 32Bit with 5 times higher benches are earning more credits then a Xeon/Quad 45nm WIN64bit, 18000 seconds WU crunch time 170 Points granted for the P4's and newest CPUs are earning for 12000 seconds 70-80 Points.

It's always the same races with fixed credits are without them and if there are races they can use their cheaters we have them destroying our fun.

But we are all aware about how they reached the combined #1

Bye I am back at PPS

Profile Sysadm@NbgProject donor
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester
Project scientist
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 5 Feb 08
Posts: 1165
ID: 18646
Credit: 429,656,684
RAC: 33,263
Found 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de Primes321 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,049,101)Cullen LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,065,659)ESP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,658,417)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,216,209)PPS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,664,976)PSP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,076,339)SoB LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,603,584)SR5 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,762,093)SGS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,108,426)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,594,095)Woodall LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,323,182)321 Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,002,108)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,967,439)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,137,451)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (224,218,383)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (627,444)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,956,401)AP 26/27 Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (15,718,771)GFN Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (64,937,531)PSA Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (86,964,270)
Message 10240 - Posted: 22 Aug 2008 | 13:45:47 UTC - in response to Message 10236.

and now we discuss to stop challenging !!
we are challenging with fair play against AF last one
we are not challenging without fair play against SUSA this time
my opinion, others will follow ...


What's the problem !! I don't understand what is fair-play or not ?? Is somebody cheating here ?? I don't like cheating so tell more or nothing please .

more and thats my last post - i´m out of challenge

Profile Blurf
Send message
Joined: 11 Mar 07
Posts: 155
ID: 6349
Credit: 180,119,544
RAC: 22
321 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,294,823)Cullen LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,112,563)ESP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,182,696)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (607,415)PPS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,705,178)SoB LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,000,863)SR5 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,004,756)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,027,182)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (91,882)TRP LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (500,474)Woodall LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (604,446)321 Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,525,881)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (131,607)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,782,364)PPS Sieve Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (139,942,611)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,007,573)TRP Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,480,387)AP 26/27 Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,708,810)GFN Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (13,402,257)
Message 10245 - Posted: 22 Aug 2008 | 15:48:19 UTC

I will state unequivocally that Seti.USA has *NEVER* cheated on any challenge. I will be notifying Team Leadership.

I request Primegrid Admins remove those unsubstantiated accusations from the boards until they can back them up (which they can't)

Profile CarnalProject donor
Send message
Joined: 27 Nov 07
Posts: 11
ID: 15325
Credit: 145,833,668
RAC: 0
321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (106,746)PPS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (29,484)PSP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (50,274)Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (27,148)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (322,076)PPS Sieve Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (144,695,327)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (332,729)AP 26/27 Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (270,040)
Message 10251 - Posted: 22 Aug 2008 | 16:26:38 UTC - in response to Message 10245.
Last modified: 22 Aug 2008 | 16:27:58 UTC

I will state unequivocally that Seti.USA has *NEVER* cheated on any challenge. I will be notifying Team Leadership.

I request Primegrid Admins remove those unsubstantiated accusations from the boards until they can back them up (which they can't)

Then look at the things below and think about what your team is doing

Used is your known cheater client 5.10.30

Two examples from hundreds

CPU type GenuineIntel
Intel(R) Pentium(R) D CPU 3.00GHz [EM64T Family 15 Model 6 Stepping 2]
Number of CPUs 2
Operating System Microsoft Windows XP Professional x64 Edition
, Service Pack 2, (05.02.3790.00)
Memory 1013.87 MB
Cache 488.28 KB
Measured floating point speed 1357.12 million ops/sec
Measured integer speed 3945.19 million ops/sec

16,486.23 114.09 170.98
18,615.27 128.82 115.87

CPU type GenuineIntel
Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5345 @ 2.33GHz [EM64T Family 6 Model 15 Stepping 7]
Number of CPUs 8
Operating System Microsoft Windows XP Professional x64 Edition
, Service Pack 2, (05.02.3790.00)
Memory 4094.69 MB
Cache 122.07 KB
Measured floating point speed 5113.75 million ops/sec
Measured integer speed 17922.99 million ops/sec

12,817.59 170.88 170.98
12,832.00 171.07 165.76

Your cheaters are over granting newest 45nm CPUs with 200%
Nothing else to say, bye i am crunching for another projekt

Profile VatoProject donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 2 Feb 08
Posts: 709
ID: 18447
Credit: 79,965,657
RAC: 68,772
321 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,851,976)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,049,559)ESP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,562,829)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,001,883)PPS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,721,709)PSP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,535,545)SoB LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,023,559)SR5 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,298,384)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,153,574)TPS LLR (retired) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (103,523)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,457,903)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,048,906)321 Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,764,261)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,119,699)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,278,995)PPS Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,407,705)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,080,177)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,221,054)AP 26/27 Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,025,257)GFN Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,020,967)PSA Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,237,059)
Message 10255 - Posted: 22 Aug 2008 | 16:51:51 UTC

Carnal - read my post above.

I also run one of these 'GenuineIntel Intel(R) Pentium(R) D CPU 3.00GHz' that ticks a WU over in around 19000 seconds (whilst having some other activity going on). That's no different than what you call a 'cheater'. Am I a cheater too? I emphatically am not, as will be proved by the validator when the double-check comes in. You're just annoyed at an artifact of the BOINC credit system for LLR, jumping to conclusions, and therefore making baseless assertions.

____________

FrankHagenProject donor
Send message
Joined: 10 Apr 08
Posts: 344
ID: 21175
Credit: 45,434,479
RAC: 0
321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (349,355)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (107,473)ESP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (174,802)PPS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,165,293)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (219,459)SR5 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (179,417)SGS LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (511,700)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (230,915)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (223,001)321 Sieve Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,111,877)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (438,658)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (23,468)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,002,595)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,670,568)TRP Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,700,165)AP 26/27 Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,297,154)GFN Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,030,996)
Message 10256 - Posted: 22 Aug 2008 | 16:55:41 UTC - in response to Message 10255.



I also run one of these 'GenuineIntel Intel(R) Pentium(R) D CPU 3.00GHz' that ticks a WU over in around 19000 seconds (whilst having some other activity going on). That's no different than what you call a 'cheater'. Am I a cheater too? I emphatically am not, as will be proved by the validator when the double-check comes in.


i can comfirm this since i'm running a D930 myself!

frank.

Profile Clooney
Send message
Joined: 21 Jan 06
Posts: 11
ID: 2228
Credit: 50,563,101
RAC: 0
321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (123,269)PPS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (51,703)SGS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (100,033)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (115,716)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,098,279)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (42,690,970)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (376,893)AP 26/27 Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (497,459)GFN Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,487,455)
Message 10257 - Posted: 22 Aug 2008 | 17:03:11 UTC

And when the "cheater"-computers are all overclocked??? You can´t see the real cpu-clock in Boinc

Profile Kevint
Send message
Joined: 1 Jun 06
Posts: 24
ID: 2936
Credit: 284,996,962
RAC: 0
321 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,000,280)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (355,435)PPS LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (698,351)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (474,936)SoB LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (656,270)SGS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,230,430)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (285,525)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (177,835)321 Sieve Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,195,944)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,865,686)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (269,502,502)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,514,808)TRP Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,317,400)AP 26/27 Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,660,007)
Message 10258 - Posted: 22 Aug 2008 | 17:03:13 UTC - in response to Message 10251.



CPU type GenuineIntel
Intel(R) Pentium(R) D CPU 3.00GHz [EM64T Family 15 Model 6 Stepping 2]
Number of CPUs 2
Operating System Microsoft Windows XP Professional x64 Edition
, Service Pack 2, (05.02.3790.00)
Memory 1013.87 MB
Cache 488.28 KB
Measured floating point speed 1357.12 million ops/sec
Measured integer speed 3945.19 million ops/sec

16,486.23 114.09 170.98
18,615.27 128.82 115.87



I see nothing odd about the benchmark speeds on this client.. just what are you saying. In fact the benchmarks seem a bit low for a Pent D at 3.0 Benchmarks at 1357 ???? should not that benchmark be 1500?


And, Just how is BOINC 5.10.30 a "cheater" client - isnt this a standard BOINC release? a bit outdated, but still a Berkeley released version.

FrankHagenProject donor
Send message
Joined: 10 Apr 08
Posts: 344
ID: 21175
Credit: 45,434,479
RAC: 0
321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (349,355)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (107,473)ESP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (174,802)PPS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,165,293)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (219,459)SR5 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (179,417)SGS LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (511,700)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (230,915)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (223,001)321 Sieve Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,111,877)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (438,658)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (23,468)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,002,595)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,670,568)TRP Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,700,165)AP 26/27 Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,297,154)GFN Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,030,996)
Message 10260 - Posted: 22 Aug 2008 | 17:12:59 UTC - in response to Message 10258.


Measured floating point speed 1357.12 million ops/sec
Measured integer speed 3945.19 million ops/sec

I see nothing odd about the benchmark speeds on this client.. just what are you saying. In fact the benchmarks seem a bit low for a Pent D at 3.0 Benchmarks at 1357 ???? should not that benchmark be 1500?

And, Just how is BOINC 5.10.30 a "cheater" client - isnt this a standard BOINC release? a bit outdated, but still a Berkeley released version.


neither do i - integer speed on X64 is a joke on elder versions of that yerkley-bench, but we are running 32-bit code right now - so what the hack??

want to check my D930 running 5.10.45 on XP/32?

http://www.primegrid.com/show_host_detail.php?hostid=74755




Profile CarnalProject donor
Send message
Joined: 27 Nov 07
Posts: 11
ID: 15325
Credit: 145,833,668
RAC: 0
321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (106,746)PPS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (29,484)PSP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (50,274)Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (27,148)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (322,076)PPS Sieve Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (144,695,327)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (332,729)AP 26/27 Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (270,040)
Message 10261 - Posted: 22 Aug 2008 | 17:17:19 UTC
Last modified: 22 Aug 2008 | 17:21:18 UTC

We discussed this enough and you are aware what you are doing.

Examples from none cheating 5.10.45 client on 64bit WinXP

E5420 Xeon Standard @2500
12,055.44 68.50 81.49
12,032.78 68.37 82.58


And if you are thinking that a P4 has more power then dream further
Nothing else to say because we all know SUSA is untouchable.

@FrankHagen
16,036.73 36.66 47.36 yours and make a comparison to the earlier posted results from me. ;)
They are claiming 300% more then you with a related CPU

Profile VatoProject donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 2 Feb 08
Posts: 709
ID: 18447
Credit: 79,965,657
RAC: 68,772
321 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,851,976)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,049,559)ESP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,562,829)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,001,883)PPS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,721,709)PSP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,535,545)SoB LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,023,559)SR5 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,298,384)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,153,574)TPS LLR (retired) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (103,523)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,457,903)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,048,906)321 Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,764,261)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,119,699)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,278,995)PPS Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,407,705)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,080,177)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,221,054)AP 26/27 Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,025,257)GFN Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,020,967)PSA Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,237,059)
Message 10262 - Posted: 22 Aug 2008 | 17:20:55 UTC

OK Carnal, you're obviously not reading (or understanding) what we're posting.
That's the end of this 'discussion/whinge' from my point of view.
____________

Profile CarnalProject donor
Send message
Joined: 27 Nov 07
Posts: 11
ID: 15325
Credit: 145,833,668
RAC: 0
321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (106,746)PPS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (29,484)PSP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (50,274)Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (27,148)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (322,076)PPS Sieve Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (144,695,327)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (332,729)AP 26/27 Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (270,040)
Message 10263 - Posted: 22 Aug 2008 | 17:21:59 UTC

And also from my point I know what you are doing.

FrankHagenProject donor
Send message
Joined: 10 Apr 08
Posts: 344
ID: 21175
Credit: 45,434,479
RAC: 0
321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (349,355)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (107,473)ESP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (174,802)PPS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,165,293)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (219,459)SR5 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (179,417)SGS LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (511,700)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (230,915)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (223,001)321 Sieve Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,111,877)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (438,658)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (23,468)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,002,595)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,670,568)TRP Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,700,165)AP 26/27 Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,297,154)GFN Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,030,996)
Message 10264 - Posted: 22 Aug 2008 | 17:23:03 UTC - in response to Message 10261.

@FrankHagen
16,036.73 36.66 47.36 yours and make a comparison to the earlier posted results from me.


sorry - YOU are not my favorite waste of time.

Rytis
Volunteer moderator
Project administrator
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 22 Jun 05
Posts: 2639
ID: 1
Credit: 20,845,900
RAC: 5,668
321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (104,475)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (291,372)ESP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (18,156)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (15,259)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (107,362)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (116,517)SoB LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (151,232)SR5 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (14,071)SGS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (100,082)TPS LLR (retired) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (111,607)TRP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (15,569,095)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (101,463)321 Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (201,501)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (214,653)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (14,200)PPS Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (282,191)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (200,232)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,453,872)AP 26/27 Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (473,058)GFN Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (163,887)PSA Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (97,541)
Message 10265 - Posted: 22 Aug 2008 | 17:25:43 UTC

If this flamewar is going to continue to grow, I'll be putting a stop to it.
____________

Profile BlkJack-21
Send message
Joined: 26 Nov 05
Posts: 3
ID: 1544
Credit: 100,001
RAC: 0
321 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (36,108)PPS Sieve Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (10,176)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (25,804)AP 26/27 Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (27,846)
Message 10272 - Posted: 22 Aug 2008 | 18:52:21 UTC - in response to Message 10245.
Last modified: 22 Aug 2008 | 18:53:47 UTC

I will state unequivocally that Seti.USA has *NEVER* cheated on any challenge. I will be notifying Team Leadership.

I request Primegrid Admins remove those unsubstantiated accusations from the boards until they can back them up (which they can't)


I will confirm this.

We are not "Cheating"...And I know that some consider heavily optimized apps/clients is a form of cheating (but that is another subject).

In fact, there is not a single user on our team using any form of optimized application...We had requested our members that have experience w/optimizing use the source app here to make an optimized app.

The answer we recieved was "no". So we are on the same playing field as everyone else (with the exception of phase cooling and extreme overclocking of course. ;) )
____________

Profile Blurf
Send message
Joined: 11 Mar 07
Posts: 155
ID: 6349
Credit: 180,119,544
RAC: 22
321 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,294,823)Cullen LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,112,563)ESP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,182,696)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (607,415)PPS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,705,178)SoB LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,000,863)SR5 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,004,756)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,027,182)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (91,882)TRP LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (500,474)Woodall LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (604,446)321 Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,525,881)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (131,607)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,782,364)PPS Sieve Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (139,942,611)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,007,573)TRP Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,480,387)AP 26/27 Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,708,810)GFN Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (13,402,257)
Message 10274 - Posted: 22 Aug 2008 | 19:04:01 UTC - in response to Message 10251.


Used is your known cheater client 5.10.30
Your cheaters are over granting newest 45nm CPUs with 200%
Nothing else to say, bye i am crunching for another projekt


Regarding Rytis' post, this will be my last post on the subject.

My machines are neither overclocked nor do I have any special app for Primegrid. I use Version 5.10.41 on my Dual Core that is doing the challenge.

So kindly base your accusations on TRUE facts, not baseless ones.

Thank You.

FrankHagenProject donor
Send message
Joined: 10 Apr 08
Posts: 344
ID: 21175
Credit: 45,434,479
RAC: 0
321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (349,355)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (107,473)ESP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (174,802)PPS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,165,293)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (219,459)SR5 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (179,417)SGS LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (511,700)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (230,915)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (223,001)321 Sieve Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,111,877)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (438,658)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (23,468)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,002,595)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,670,568)TRP Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,700,165)AP 26/27 Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,297,154)GFN Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,030,996)
Message 10277 - Posted: 22 Aug 2008 | 19:29:46 UTC - in response to Message 10274.


So kindly base your accusations on TRUE facts, not baseless ones.


sorry if i step in again - it's only my 5 cents:

TGIF - someONE (over here) will have to take his time 'till monday and see his shrink then.

frank.

Profile Blurf
Send message
Joined: 11 Mar 07
Posts: 155
ID: 6349
Credit: 180,119,544
RAC: 22
321 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,294,823)Cullen LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,112,563)ESP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,182,696)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (607,415)PPS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,705,178)SoB LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,000,863)SR5 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,004,756)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,027,182)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (91,882)TRP LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (500,474)Woodall LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (604,446)321 Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,525,881)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (131,607)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,782,364)PPS Sieve Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (139,942,611)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,007,573)TRP Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,480,387)AP 26/27 Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,708,810)GFN Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (13,402,257)
Message 10279 - Posted: 22 Aug 2008 | 19:52:26 UTC - in response to Message 10277.


sorry if i step in again - it's only my 5 cents:

TGIF - someONE (over here) will have to take his time 'till monday and see his shrink then.

frank.


It's all good Frank...I've had my say :)

FrankHagenProject donor
Send message
Joined: 10 Apr 08
Posts: 344
ID: 21175
Credit: 45,434,479
RAC: 0
321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (349,355)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (107,473)ESP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (174,802)PPS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,165,293)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (219,459)SR5 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (179,417)SGS LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (511,700)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (230,915)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (223,001)321 Sieve Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,111,877)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (438,658)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (23,468)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,002,595)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,670,568)TRP Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,700,165)AP 26/27 Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,297,154)GFN Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,030,996)
Message 10280 - Posted: 22 Aug 2008 | 20:16:38 UTC - in response to Message 10279.


It's all good Frank...I've had my say :)


so let's chill now and enjoy the party to the full!

happy crunching..

frank.

wind
Send message
Joined: 31 Jul 08
Posts: 1
ID: 26480
Credit: 5,041
RAC: 0

Message 10281 - Posted: 22 Aug 2008 | 22:04:13 UTC - in response to Message 10280.


It's all good Frank...I've had my say :)


so let's chill now and enjoy the party to the full!

happy crunching..

frank.

Profile [XTBA>XTC] FRED
Send message
Joined: 18 Apr 07
Posts: 13
ID: 7300
Credit: 18,673,448
RAC: 0
321 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,145,352)Cullen LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (18,637)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,367,588)PSP LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (531,525)SoB LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (16,752)SGS LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (507,663)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (12,377)TRP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (12,957)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (103,546)321 Sieve Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,201,404)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (455,502)PPS Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,194,357)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,768,583)TRP Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,009,960)AP 26/27 Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,328,027)
Message 10282 - Posted: 22 Aug 2008 | 22:20:58 UTC

To stop all suspicious things can you please remove all credits ( like other project does ) from the owner ( cheater ) of this host : http://www.primegrid.com/results.php?hostid=71458

It is anonymous so no team accused but this guys is a cheater !!!

Profile Blurf
Send message
Joined: 11 Mar 07
Posts: 155
ID: 6349
Credit: 180,119,544
RAC: 22
321 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,294,823)Cullen LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,112,563)ESP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,182,696)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (607,415)PPS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,705,178)SoB LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,000,863)SR5 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,004,756)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,027,182)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (91,882)TRP LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (500,474)Woodall LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (604,446)321 Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,525,881)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (131,607)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,782,364)PPS Sieve Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (139,942,611)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,007,573)TRP Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,480,387)AP 26/27 Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,708,810)GFN Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (13,402,257)
Message 10291 - Posted: 22 Aug 2008 | 23:44:20 UTC - in response to Message 10282.

To stop all suspicious things can you please remove all credits ( like other project does ) from the owner ( cheater ) of this host : http://www.primegrid.com/results.php?hostid=71458

It is anonymous so no team accused but this guys is a cheater !!!


It's not me--I'm not anonymous but what is your proof??

Profile [AF>HFR>RR] Sp0wn
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 11 Feb 08
Posts: 1
ID: 18901
Credit: 2,537,099
RAC: 0
321 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (80,036)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (504,222)PPS Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (234,525)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,718,847)
Message 10292 - Posted: 22 Aug 2008 | 23:57:59 UTC

Just read carefully the integer speed and the claimed credit

Created 17 Jul 2008 17:44:40 UTC
Total Credit 9,751
Avg. credit 287.35
CPU type GenuineIntel
Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU E4500 @ 2.20GHz [x86 Family 6 Model 15 Stepping 13]
Number of CPUs 2
Operating System Microsoft Windows XP
Home Edition, Service Pack 3, (05.01.2600.00)
Memory 2047.11 MB
Cache 488.28 KB
Measured floating point speed 2820.48 million ops/sec
Measured integer speed 149126.92 million ops/sec

Claimed Credit : 1,110.15

regards

Profile Kevint
Send message
Joined: 1 Jun 06
Posts: 24
ID: 2936
Credit: 284,996,962
RAC: 0
321 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,000,280)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (355,435)PPS LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (698,351)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (474,936)SoB LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (656,270)SGS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,230,430)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (285,525)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (177,835)321 Sieve Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,195,944)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,865,686)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (269,502,502)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,514,808)TRP Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,317,400)AP 26/27 Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,660,007)
Message 10293 - Posted: 23 Aug 2008 | 0:13:27 UTC


Agreed, that is excessive -

I don't know how the credit system works for this project, but it appears that both WU's in the quorum received the same amount of BOINC credit,

http://www.primegrid.com/workunit.php?wuid=38075824


but this still does not affect the race credits.

zombie67 [MM]Project donor
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 30 Nov 06
Posts: 155
ID: 4065
Credit: 702,319,485
RAC: 39,933
321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,761,926)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,106,758)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,176,695)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,106,000)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,372,353)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,649,343)SoB LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,415,692)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,026,750)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,005,424)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,129,840)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,473,519)321 Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,691,112)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,297,856)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,711,622)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (360,132,182)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,707,274)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,316,578)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,289,379)GFN Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (199,347,844)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (15,567,600)
Message 10294 - Posted: 23 Aug 2008 | 0:17:19 UTC

It makes no difference if people over-claim. It has nothing to do with what is awarded by the project. It's not cheating if it isn't changing the awarded amount.
____________
Reno, NV

Profile Clooney
Send message
Joined: 21 Jan 06
Posts: 11
ID: 2228
Credit: 50,563,101
RAC: 0
321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (123,269)PPS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (51,703)SGS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (100,033)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (115,716)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,098,279)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (42,690,970)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (376,893)AP 26/27 Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (497,459)GFN Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,487,455)
Message 10295 - Posted: 23 Aug 2008 | 0:21:28 UTC

EXTREM CHEATER
http://www.primegrid.com/show_host_detail.php?hostid=71458
http://www.primegrid.com/workunit.php?wuid=38082298

Profile pschoeferProject donor
Volunteer developer
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 20 Sep 05
Posts: 652
ID: 845
Credit: 1,761,037,823
RAC: 957,028
Found 2 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de Primes321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,570,600)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,098,443)ESP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,068,633)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (18,213,684)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,842,162)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,435,120)SoB LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,074,463)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,201,780)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,242,555)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (76,372)TRP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,366,704)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,281,303)321 Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (210,443)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,000,264)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,111,347)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (342,928,524)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,177,104)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,556,644)AP 26/27 Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (94,986,122)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (336,500,394)PSA Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (842,101,910)
Message 10298 - Posted: 23 Aug 2008 | 3:50:12 UTC - in response to Message 10294.

It makes no difference if people over-claim. It has nothing to do with what is awarded by the project. It's not cheating if it isn't changing the awarded amount.

That's not correct. There are no fixed credits for the long LLR subprojects. I don't know the way how credit is calculated exactly, but the two claims definitely play a role and there is a limit. That's the reason why you get more credit if your wingman has an AMD processor (they're much slower on LLR, but the benchmarks are not that much lower).
____________

Profile [SG]marodeur6Project donor
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 31 Mar 07
Posts: 26
ID: 6903
Credit: 1,234,864,977
RAC: 0
2010 Tour de Primes most Mountain Stage primes321 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,062,129)PPS LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (667,773)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (338,785)SGS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (151,239)TPS LLR (retired) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (359,685)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (133,762)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,407,959)PPS Sieve Double Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000,000 credits (1,223,276,836)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,121,518)TRP Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,169,840)AP 26/27 Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,066,818)PSA Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (150,000)
Message 10304 - Posted: 23 Aug 2008 | 8:35:55 UTC - in response to Message 10292.

Just read carefully the integer speed and the claimed credit

Created 17 Jul 2008 17:44:40 UTC
Total Credit 9,751
Avg. credit 287.35
CPU type GenuineIntel
Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU E4500 @ 2.20GHz [x86 Family 6 Model 15 Stepping 13]
Number of CPUs 2
Operating System Microsoft Windows XP
Home Edition, Service Pack 3, (05.01.2600.00)
Memory 2047.11 MB
Cache 488.28 KB
Measured floating point speed 2820.48 million ops/sec
Measured integer speed 149126.92 million ops/sec

Claimed Credit : 1,110.15

regards


Hi John and Rytis,

I will only post one time here...

This is really an unbelievable impertinence!

If there isn't a solution in the near future to stop such braindead dummys with there machines you will lost really many crunchers from our side.

No matter that it doesn't hit the challenge, it is a slap in the face to all boinc oriented crunchers that pay a lot of mony to their electricity supplier to help this project.

Please have a closer look on such results and correct them.

I have heard, that you should have something like a "upper limit" of credits/WU. Is this right? If yes, why isn't it working?

A really disappointed and angry

cruncher
____________

Rytis
Volunteer moderator
Project administrator
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 22 Jun 05
Posts: 2639
ID: 1
Credit: 20,845,900
RAC: 5,668
321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (104,475)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (291,372)ESP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (18,156)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (15,259)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (107,362)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (116,517)SoB LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (151,232)SR5 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (14,071)SGS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (100,082)TPS LLR (retired) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (111,607)TRP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (15,569,095)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (101,463)321 Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (201,501)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (214,653)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (14,200)PPS Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (282,191)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (200,232)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,453,872)AP 26/27 Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (473,058)GFN Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (163,887)PSA Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (97,541)
Message 10307 - Posted: 23 Aug 2008 | 9:44:11 UTC - in response to Message 10304.

I have heard, that you should have something like a "upper limit" of credits/WU. Is this right? If yes, why isn't it working?

It actually is working (see my calculation below), the limit was simply too high as we switched from 32-1 to 32+1. I adjusted it now.

Claimed: 1,211.85+81.09=1292.94
Average claim (which would be granted credit if the limit was not in place): 646.47
Actual grant: 448.65
____________

Profile Cebion
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 2 Apr 07
Posts: 5
ID: 6942
Credit: 381,558
RAC: 0
PSP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (15,058)Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (12,084)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (327,270)AP 26/27 Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (12,263)
Message 10308 - Posted: 23 Aug 2008 | 9:48:26 UTC

I'm right there with you, [SG]marodeur6 and I'm also very disappointed!

Hi Rytis!

____________

Profile KalessinProject donor
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 29 Apr 07
Posts: 15
ID: 7610
Credit: 796,105
RAC: 0
321 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (19,020)PPS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (19,195)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (25,184)Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (35,767)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (110,188)PPS Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (356,347)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (188,540)AP 26/27 Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (37,768)
Message 10309 - Posted: 23 Aug 2008 | 11:46:18 UTC

This is really disgusting, the whole gang of 6.1.0 Cheaters gathered again. I would strongly recommend not only to decrease future misuse by this limit. They have already profited enough by there cheatery.
Please set a sign and block the app. 6.1.0 which most of the cheaters use. The boinc software is able to exclude cheating clients. So show them, that you do not want further cheating. Noone uses 6.1.0 and is unaware that it is cheating!

Throw them out! Now!

For those who don't know what the 6.1.0 does:
It was developed to balance the credit loss for crunchers who used crunch3rs seti application. To do that it overclaims credits. In the case of seti this is on the border of being tolerable (since someone just decides to earn more credits than others, not very fair in itself) but using this overclaiming creditmachine at any other project without using an appropiate application is only one thing: mere naked uncovered cheating)

@blurf, it might be true that noone of your team was cheating here at the challenge, but this is only a question of definition. Obviously this above mentioned client is used by members of your team, probably also by some others. So for me there are a lot of cheaters within your team. But if you deny overclaiming to be cheating, than you might be right. Also as this does not concern the racecredits, you might further your argumentation of noone cheating with the race.

But doesn't this misplaced overcleaiming spoil the whole credit-system, doesn't it spoil your team's number 1?
____________
Dragons can fly, because they don't fit into pirate ships!

Profile Sid
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 15 Mar 08
Posts: 14
ID: 20216
Credit: 12,332,484
RAC: 0
321 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (68,752)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (258,057)PSP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (67,776)SoB LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (32,276)SGS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (25,559)TRP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (23,061)Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (38,694)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (133,049)PPS Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,937,523)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (75,096)TRP Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (188,499)AP 26/27 Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (48,299)GFN Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (426,620)
Message 10314 - Posted: 23 Aug 2008 | 12:57:51 UTC - in response to Message 10309.
Last modified: 23 Aug 2008 | 13:08:43 UTC



But doesn't this misplaced overclaiming spoil the whole credit-system, doesn't it spoil your team's number 1?



Kalessin:


Any parity in cross-project credits is a myth.

All BOINCers who have been around more than a month realize that some of the most worthy projects are not very 'easy' with their credits, while others [we all know which ones] are cobblestone Coke machines.

Maybe an honest discussion of the elephant in the living room is in order, and a flame war is not.
____________

Profile Sid
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 15 Mar 08
Posts: 14
ID: 20216
Credit: 12,332,484
RAC: 0
321 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (68,752)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (258,057)PSP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (67,776)SoB LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (32,276)SGS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (25,559)TRP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (23,061)Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (38,694)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (133,049)PPS Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,937,523)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (75,096)TRP Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (188,499)AP 26/27 Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (48,299)GFN Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (426,620)
Message 10315 - Posted: 23 Aug 2008 | 13:00:08 UTC - in response to Message 10310.

A thread to discuss BOINC crediting and benchmarking.



John:


For the purposes of the PG Challenges, wouldn't just counting cobblestones be more reasonable than the esoteric formula that is currently being used?

____________

Profile pschoeferProject donor
Volunteer developer
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 20 Sep 05
Posts: 652
ID: 845
Credit: 1,761,037,823
RAC: 957,028
Found 2 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 prime in the 2019 Tour de Primes321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,570,600)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,098,443)ESP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,068,633)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (18,213,684)PPS LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,842,162)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,435,120)SoB LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,074,463)SR5 LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,201,780)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,242,555)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (76,372)TRP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,366,704)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (8,281,303)321 Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (210,443)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,000,264)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,111,347)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (342,928,524)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,177,104)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,556,644)AP 26/27 Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (94,986,122)GFN Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (336,500,394)PSA Double Gold: Earned 500,000,000 credits (842,101,910)
Message 10316 - Posted: 23 Aug 2008 | 13:37:11 UTC - in response to Message 10315.

Any parity in cross-project credits is a myth.

This discussion is not about cross-project parity, but about the way credit is granted in LLR subprojects...

For the purposes of the PG Challenges, wouldn't just counting cobblestones be more reasonable than the esoteric formula that is currently being used?

Counting cobblestones for challenge with non-fixed credits would be the worst solution. For one WU you get 80 cobblestones, for the next one (with the same runtime) you get 120, because your wingman has a slow AMD processor, for the third one (again, with the same or even a shorter runtime) you get 400 because your wingman has inflated benchmarks...
____________

Profile Sid
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 15 Mar 08
Posts: 14
ID: 20216
Credit: 12,332,484
RAC: 0
321 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (68,752)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (258,057)PSP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (67,776)SoB LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (32,276)SGS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (25,559)TRP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (23,061)Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (38,694)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (133,049)PPS Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,937,523)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (75,096)TRP Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (188,499)AP 26/27 Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (48,299)GFN Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (426,620)
Message 10317 - Posted: 23 Aug 2008 | 13:50:05 UTC - in response to Message 10316.

Counting cobblestones for challenge with non-fixed credits would be the worst solution. For one WU you get 80 cobblestones, for the next one (with the same runtime) you get 120, because your wingman has a slow AMD processor, for the third one (again, with the same or even a shorter runtime) you get 400 because your wingman has inflated benchmarks...



So let's ignore one problem by substituting another?

____________

Profile Sid
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 15 Mar 08
Posts: 14
ID: 20216
Credit: 12,332,484
RAC: 0
321 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (68,752)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (258,057)PSP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (67,776)SoB LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (32,276)SGS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (25,559)TRP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (23,061)Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (38,694)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (133,049)PPS Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,937,523)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (75,096)TRP Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (188,499)AP 26/27 Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (48,299)GFN Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (426,620)
Message 10319 - Posted: 23 Aug 2008 | 14:04:02 UTC - in response to Message 10316.
Last modified: 23 Aug 2008 | 14:06:24 UTC

Any parity in cross-project credits is a myth.
This discussion is not about cross-project parity, but about the way credit is granted in LLR subprojects...


. . . and what is the title of this thread?
____________

zombie67 [MM]Project donor
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 30 Nov 06
Posts: 155
ID: 4065
Credit: 702,319,485
RAC: 39,933
321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,761,926)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,106,758)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,176,695)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,106,000)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,372,353)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,649,343)SoB LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,415,692)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,026,750)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,005,424)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,129,840)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,473,519)321 Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,691,112)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,297,856)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,711,622)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (360,132,182)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,707,274)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,316,578)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,289,379)GFN Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (199,347,844)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (15,567,600)
Message 10323 - Posted: 23 Aug 2008 | 14:44:58 UTC - in response to Message 10298.

It makes no difference if people over-claim. It has nothing to do with what is awarded by the project. It's not cheating if it isn't changing the awarded amount.

That's not correct. There are no fixed credits for the long LLR subprojects. I don't know the way how credit is calculated exactly, but the two claims definitely play a role and there is a limit. That's the reason why you get more credit if your wingman has an AMD processor (they're much slower on LLR, but the benchmarks are not that much lower).


When I posted this, it was still back in the Dog Day's of Summer Challenge thread (before it got moved to this thread). And that is what I was talking about. I will say again, claiming amounts have NOTHING to do with the challenge scores. Let me quote the project again:

There is no correlation between Challenge Points and BOINC credit (cobblestones)! There is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY to cheat Challenge Points.

____________
Reno, NV

Scott BrownProject donor
Volunteer moderator
Project administrator
Volunteer tester
Project scientist
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 17 Oct 05
Posts: 1913
ID: 1178
Credit: 6,307,780,443
RAC: 1,841,448
Discovered the World's First base 116 Generalized Cullen prime!!!Discovered 13 mega primesEliminated 7 conjecture "k"sDiscovered 1 Sophie Germain pairDiscovered 1 Fermat divisor2012 Tour de Primes highest prime count2012 Tour de Primes most Mountain Stage primes2015 Tour de Primes highest prime count2016 Tour de Primes highest prime countFound 23 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2018 Tour de Primes Mountain Stage2019 Tour de Primes highest prime countFound 22 primes in the 2019 Tour de Primes321 LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (100,829,118)Cullen LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (103,870,990)ESP LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (124,520,838)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (108,461,080)PPS LLR Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (343,575,390)PSP LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (108,003,110)SoB LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (135,747,083)SR5 LLR Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (201,220,450)SGS LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (160,942,951)TPS LLR (retired) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (235,439)TRP LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (121,443,822)Woodall LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (101,447,725)321 Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (203,510,966)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (83,794,448)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (285,139,652)PPS Sieve Double Ruby: Earned 2,000,000,000 credits (2,107,850,099)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (203,523,358)TRP Sieve (suspended) Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (201,489,157)AP 26/27 Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (119,562,131)GFN Double Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000,000 credits (1,233,547,151)PSA Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (259,058,048)
Message 10324 - Posted: 23 Aug 2008 | 14:59:59 UTC - in response to Message 10317.

Counting cobblestones for challenge with non-fixed credits would be the worst solution. For one WU you get 80 cobblestones, for the next one (with the same runtime) you get 120, because your wingman has a slow AMD processor, for the third one (again, with the same or even a shorter runtime) you get 400 because your wingman has inflated benchmarks...



So let's ignore one problem by substituting another?


Cobblestones are used for some challenges (e.g., PSP sieve, TPS) since these are fixed credit projects. On the other LLR projects, these are determined through the benchmarking system with known biases (as noted above) making it a poor choice for scoring. The current challenge scoring is not problematic at all since its (perhaps complicated) formula is essentially a fixed system as well.
____________
141941*2^4299438-1 is prime!


Profile KalessinProject donor
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 29 Apr 07
Posts: 15
ID: 7610
Credit: 796,105
RAC: 0
321 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (19,020)PPS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (19,195)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (25,184)Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (35,767)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (110,188)PPS Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (356,347)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (188,540)AP 26/27 Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (37,768)
Message 10325 - Posted: 23 Aug 2008 | 15:08:38 UTC - in response to Message 10323.

I will say again, claiming amounts have NOTHING to do with the challenge scores. Let me quote the project again:

There is no correlation between Challenge Points and BOINC credit (cobblestones)! There is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY to cheat Challenge Points.


Yes your right with that, and i am very glad about it.

But it is so absolutely enervating to always find the same overclaiming cheaters everywhere again and again. They do it in every project, that has no fixed credits.

So with this frustration the discussion wandered from the "race" to "boinc". And seeing blurf anouncing the complete innocence of your team was quite heavy stuff, since your team surely has the highest ratio of 6.1.0 users of all major teams.

I absolutely well understand that you did only mean the race side of the affair.

But what would interest me very much would be the question, if the absolutely fair and honest majority of your team simply doesn't care, is unaware of it, doesn't like it or just admires the gained credits.
While those cheating folks are really also spoiling the majorities credits and standing.
Does sometimes someone tell them to stop with it?
____________
Dragons can fly, because they don't fit into pirate ships!

Scott BrownProject donor
Volunteer moderator
Project administrator
Volunteer tester
Project scientist
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 17 Oct 05
Posts: 1913
ID: 1178
Credit: 6,307,780,443
RAC: 1,841,448
Discovered the World's First base 116 Generalized Cullen prime!!!Discovered 13 mega primesEliminated 7 conjecture "k"sDiscovered 1 Sophie Germain pairDiscovered 1 Fermat divisor2012 Tour de Primes highest prime count2012 Tour de Primes most Mountain Stage primes2015 Tour de Primes highest prime count2016 Tour de Primes highest prime countFound 23 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2018 Tour de Primes Mountain Stage2019 Tour de Primes highest prime countFound 22 primes in the 2019 Tour de Primes321 LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (100,829,118)Cullen LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (103,870,990)ESP LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (124,520,838)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (108,461,080)PPS LLR Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (343,575,390)PSP LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (108,003,110)SoB LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (135,747,083)SR5 LLR Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (201,220,450)SGS LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (160,942,951)TPS LLR (retired) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (235,439)TRP LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (121,443,822)Woodall LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (101,447,725)321 Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (203,510,966)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (83,794,448)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (285,139,652)PPS Sieve Double Ruby: Earned 2,000,000,000 credits (2,107,850,099)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (203,523,358)TRP Sieve (suspended) Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (201,489,157)AP 26/27 Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (119,562,131)GFN Double Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000,000 credits (1,233,547,151)PSA Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (259,058,048)
Message 10326 - Posted: 23 Aug 2008 | 15:14:04 UTC

There is a relatively easy fix to inflated benchmarks that could be implemented by any project (though it would require some extra programming). Benchmarks are natually inexact because:

1. There is variability between machines of different speeds.

and (very importantly)

2. There is variability within a machine since benchmarks vary across time due to variability is processor load at the time of benchmarks.

Thus, this is a stochastic process that should be considered using a statistical frame of mind. If we assume that this variability is spread out through a fair (read random, stochastic here) process, then the distribution of the benchamrks scores should be roughly normally distributed. This would ideally be applied at the processor (and perhaps OS) level, but more generally could be applied across all types of machines using a single benchmark distribution (or at least one each for integer and floating point benchmarks).

Thus, any excessive benchmarks (say outside the 99.9% confidence bound--high and low) could be identified. Therefore, the LLR scoring algorithim here could be modified as follows:

1. benchmarks from both machines within 99.9% bound, use current scoring process

2. one machine within 99.9% bound, one machine outside of 99.9% bound--assign scoring claimed by client within the bound

3. both machines outside of 99.9% bound, assign to an additional machine until a result from benchmarks within bounds is returned and assign that score to all machines.

While this does not solve all the issues noted above, it does tend to average over them and does eliminate extreme values.


____________
141941*2^4299438-1 is prime!


Profile KalessinProject donor
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 29 Apr 07
Posts: 15
ID: 7610
Credit: 796,105
RAC: 0
321 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (19,020)PPS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (19,195)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (25,184)Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (35,767)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (110,188)PPS Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (356,347)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (188,540)AP 26/27 Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (37,768)
Message 10328 - Posted: 23 Aug 2008 | 15:22:51 UTC - in response to Message 10326.

There is a relatively easy fix to inflated benchmarks that could be implemented by any project (though it would require some extra programming). Benchmarks are natually inexact because:

1. There is variability between machines of different speeds.

and (very importantly)

2. There is variability within a machine since benchmarks vary across time due to variability is processor load at the time of benchmarks.

Thus, this is a stochastic process that should be considered using a statistical frame of mind. If we assume that this variability is spread out through a fair (read random, stochastic here) process, then the distribution of the benchamrks scores should be roughly normally distributed. This would ideally be applied at the processor (and perhaps OS) level, but more generally could be applied across all types of machines using a single benchmark distribution (or at least one each for integer and floating point benchmarks).

Thus, any excessive benchmarks (say outside the 99.9% confidence bound--high and low) could be identified. Therefore, the LLR scoring algorithim here could be modified as follows:

1. benchmarks from both machines within 99.9% bound, use current scoring process

2. one machine within 99.9% bound, one machine outside of 99.9% bound--assign scoring claimed by client within the bound

3. both machines outside of 99.9% bound, assign to an additional machine until a result from benchmarks within bounds is returned and assign that score to all machines.

While this does not solve all the issues noted above, it does tend to average over them and does eliminate extreme values.



This would work even better than excluding the specific client. Which could than be used to temporarily stop the cheating until someone has programmed your advice.


____________
Dragons can fly, because they don't fit into pirate ships!

FrankHagenProject donor
Send message
Joined: 10 Apr 08
Posts: 344
ID: 21175
Credit: 45,434,479
RAC: 0
321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (349,355)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (107,473)ESP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (174,802)PPS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,165,293)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (219,459)SR5 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (179,417)SGS LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (511,700)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (230,915)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (223,001)321 Sieve Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,111,877)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (438,658)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (23,468)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,002,595)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,670,568)TRP Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,700,165)AP 26/27 Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,297,154)GFN Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,030,996)
Message 10329 - Posted: 23 Aug 2008 | 15:52:29 UTC - in response to Message 10326.


1. benchmarks from both machines within 99.9% bound, use current scoring process

2. one machine within 99.9% bound, one machine outside of 99.9% bound--assign scoring claimed by client within the bound

3. both machines outside of 99.9% bound, assign to an additional machine until a result from benchmarks within bounds is returned and assign that score to all machines.

While this does not solve all the issues noted above, it does tend to average over them and does eliminate extreme values.


99,9%???

you do know what you are talking about?

that bench in boinc-clients is such a lousy thing and you expect 99,9% accuracy?

this would end up in endless resends.

if you came up with 95%, it was worth a thought, but this one earns you the "joke of the thread" award - until now.. :(

frank.

Rytis
Volunteer moderator
Project administrator
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 22 Jun 05
Posts: 2639
ID: 1
Credit: 20,845,900
RAC: 5,668
321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (104,475)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (291,372)ESP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (18,156)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (15,259)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (107,362)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (116,517)SoB LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (151,232)SR5 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (14,071)SGS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (100,082)TPS LLR (retired) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (111,607)TRP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (15,569,095)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (101,463)321 Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (201,501)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (214,653)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (14,200)PPS Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (282,191)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (200,232)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,453,872)AP 26/27 Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (473,058)GFN Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (163,887)PSA Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (97,541)
Message 10330 - Posted: 23 Aug 2008 | 16:23:39 UTC - in response to Message 10329.
Last modified: 23 Aug 2008 | 16:34:37 UTC

if you came up with 95%, it was worth a thought, but this one earns you the "joke of the thread" award - until now.. :(

I'd say 95% is still too much. But yes, it would probably be a pretty good system; I'll gather some statistics to see if it is doable.

[edit] I checked to see how many different CPU types are crunching for PrimeGrid. My idea was that if there is more than a single host of a specific CPU type, I could get a median of the benchmark values and use them for credit. Well, I found out there are 6381 (!) different CPU model strings, over 2500 are listed only once, so there is no way to exclude invalid benchmarks from them... BOINC doesn't really do a good job identifying CPUs :)

[edit2] I think we might team up with BOINCstats to gather the data.
____________

FrankHagenProject donor
Send message
Joined: 10 Apr 08
Posts: 344
ID: 21175
Credit: 45,434,479
RAC: 0
321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (349,355)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (107,473)ESP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (174,802)PPS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,165,293)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (219,459)SR5 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (179,417)SGS LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (511,700)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (230,915)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (223,001)321 Sieve Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,111,877)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (438,658)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (23,468)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,002,595)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,670,568)TRP Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,700,165)AP 26/27 Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,297,154)GFN Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,030,996)
Message 10331 - Posted: 23 Aug 2008 | 16:33:51 UTC - in response to Message 10330.

I'd say 95% is still too much. But yes, it would probably be a pretty good system; I'll gather some statistics to see if it is doable.


so you would be willing to sacrifice that much of performace eaten up by resends to this kindergarten-thing?

got another idea: identify cheating clients, prove them and put a list up on top of project page. everyone will know and project is not loosing precious hours of processing time.

frank.

Rytis
Volunteer moderator
Project administrator
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 22 Jun 05
Posts: 2639
ID: 1
Credit: 20,845,900
RAC: 5,668
321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (104,475)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (291,372)ESP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (18,156)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (15,259)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (107,362)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (116,517)SoB LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (151,232)SR5 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (14,071)SGS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (100,082)TPS LLR (retired) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (111,607)TRP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (15,569,095)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (101,463)321 Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (201,501)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (214,653)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (14,200)PPS Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (282,191)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (200,232)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,453,872)AP 26/27 Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (473,058)GFN Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (163,887)PSA Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (97,541)
Message 10332 - Posted: 23 Aug 2008 | 16:35:27 UTC - in response to Message 10331.

so you would be willing to sacrifice that much of performace eaten up by resends to this kindergarten-thing?

I updated my post, my idea is not to resend anything, but instead use adjusted benchmark values.
____________

thommy3
Send message
Joined: 7 Jan 08
Posts: 42
ID: 17265
Credit: 268,651
RAC: 0
PSP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (11,240)TRP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (10,735)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (88,757)TRP Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (36,174)AP 26/27 Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (16,749)PSA Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (98,594)
Message 10333 - Posted: 23 Aug 2008 | 16:40:46 UTC

just use the challenge formula to grant llr credit. that is multiplying it with a constant factor to match current credits per test.

FrankHagenProject donor
Send message
Joined: 10 Apr 08
Posts: 344
ID: 21175
Credit: 45,434,479
RAC: 0
321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (349,355)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (107,473)ESP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (174,802)PPS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,165,293)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (219,459)SR5 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (179,417)SGS LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (511,700)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (230,915)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (223,001)321 Sieve Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,111,877)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (438,658)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (23,468)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,002,595)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,670,568)TRP Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,700,165)AP 26/27 Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,297,154)GFN Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,030,996)
Message 10334 - Posted: 23 Aug 2008 | 16:52:17 UTC - in response to Message 10332.

I updated my post, my idea is not to resend anything, but instead use adjusted benchmark values.


let's see if i got it: you would wan't to use not a single machines benchmark-values, but the median of it's type. nice conecpt - at least for the majority of hosts.

but then - 2nd thought - if i wanted to cheat, i could simply modify the identifyer and everything fouls up again.

let's get serious - we are talking about 1, 2, 5 or 10% of cheaters?
and about probably less people who can't live with that..

frank.

Rytis
Volunteer moderator
Project administrator
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 22 Jun 05
Posts: 2639
ID: 1
Credit: 20,845,900
RAC: 5,668
321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (104,475)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (291,372)ESP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (18,156)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (15,259)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (107,362)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (116,517)SoB LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (151,232)SR5 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (14,071)SGS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (100,082)TPS LLR (retired) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (111,607)TRP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (15,569,095)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (101,463)321 Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (201,501)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (214,653)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (14,200)PPS Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (282,191)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (200,232)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,453,872)AP 26/27 Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (473,058)GFN Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (163,887)PSA Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (97,541)
Message 10335 - Posted: 23 Aug 2008 | 17:17:31 UTC - in response to Message 10334.

but then - 2nd thought - if i wanted to cheat, i could simply modify the identifyer and everything fouls up again.

let's get serious - we are talking about 1, 2, 5 or 10% of cheaters?
and about probably less people who can't live with that..

Well, no open system is 100% safe from cheating, but this would nullify the currently used methods of cheating. Yes, you could change what your client reports to the server (CPU model), but that would mean compiling a custom BOINC client version, which is one step too much for most of the cheaters. This, combined with credit averaging over two results and having a top limit will probably be enough to silence all complaints about cheating :)
____________

zombie67 [MM]Project donor
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 30 Nov 06
Posts: 155
ID: 4065
Credit: 702,319,485
RAC: 39,933
321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,761,926)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,106,758)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,176,695)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,106,000)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,372,353)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,649,343)SoB LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,415,692)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,026,750)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,005,424)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,129,840)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,473,519)321 Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,691,112)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,297,856)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,711,622)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (360,132,182)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,707,274)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,316,578)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,289,379)GFN Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (199,347,844)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (15,567,600)
Message 10336 - Posted: 23 Aug 2008 | 17:20:04 UTC

You do not need any modified BOINC client to inflate benchmarks. Anyone can do that with any stock client downloaded directly from Berkeley. Trying to ban over-claiming by banning certain versions of clients is a fool's game.
____________
Reno, NV

Rytis
Volunteer moderator
Project administrator
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 22 Jun 05
Posts: 2639
ID: 1
Credit: 20,845,900
RAC: 5,668
321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (104,475)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (291,372)ESP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (18,156)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (15,259)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (107,362)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (116,517)SoB LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (151,232)SR5 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (14,071)SGS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (100,082)TPS LLR (retired) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (111,607)TRP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (15,569,095)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (101,463)321 Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (201,501)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (214,653)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (14,200)PPS Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (282,191)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (200,232)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,453,872)AP 26/27 Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (473,058)GFN Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (163,887)PSA Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (97,541)
Message 10337 - Posted: 23 Aug 2008 | 17:24:56 UTC - in response to Message 10336.

You do not need any modified BOINC client to inflate benchmarks. Anyone can do that with any stock client downloaded directly from Berkeley. Trying to ban over-claiming by banning certain versions of clients is a fool's game.

Did you actually read the proposal? I'm not going to ban anyone; I'm simply not going to look at the benchmark values provided by the client when assigning the credit, I'm going to look at a BOINC-wide median benchmark value for that specific host type.
____________

zombie67 [MM]Project donor
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 30 Nov 06
Posts: 155
ID: 4065
Credit: 702,319,485
RAC: 39,933
321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,761,926)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,106,758)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,176,695)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,106,000)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,372,353)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,649,343)SoB LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,415,692)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,026,750)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,005,424)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,129,840)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,473,519)321 Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,691,112)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,297,856)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,711,622)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (360,132,182)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,707,274)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,316,578)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,289,379)GFN Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (199,347,844)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (15,567,600)
Message 10338 - Posted: 23 Aug 2008 | 17:33:19 UTC - in response to Message 10337.
Last modified: 23 Aug 2008 | 17:35:11 UTC

You do not need any modified BOINC client to inflate benchmarks. Anyone can do that with any stock client downloaded directly from Berkeley. Trying to ban over-claiming by banning certain versions of clients is a fool's game.

Did you actually read the proposal? I'm not going to ban anyone; I'm simply not going to look at the benchmark values provided by the client when assigning the credit, I'm going to look at a BOINC-wide median benchmark value for that specific host type.

Sorry Rytis. My post was not in response to your proposal. I was simply responding to several comments by other posters, about banning some versions of BOINC clients. It was a general information post, in case folks were unaware that one can change benchmarks without using a modified BOINC client.
____________
Reno, NV

Profile KalessinProject donor
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 29 Apr 07
Posts: 15
ID: 7610
Credit: 796,105
RAC: 0
321 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (19,020)PPS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (19,195)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (25,184)Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (35,767)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (110,188)PPS Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (356,347)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (188,540)AP 26/27 Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (37,768)
Message 10339 - Posted: 23 Aug 2008 | 18:40:29 UTC - in response to Message 10338.
Last modified: 23 Aug 2008 | 18:41:57 UTC

You do not need any modified BOINC client to inflate benchmarks. Anyone can do that with any stock client downloaded directly from Berkeley. Trying to ban over-claiming by banning certain versions of clients is a fool's game.


But this is quite an absurd kind of logic.
Certainly you can't get rid of every cheater by banning cheater- versions. Many people (including myself) know how to increase the benchmark result. It's just a question of intact morale not to do so.
Perhaps some cheat3r will immediately write or rename a new one, if those version numbers were blocked.
But the message would be clear: you do not tolerate cheating!
And you won't lose any fair cruncher by blocking the two major cheating clients. Only cheaters would be affected.
It is very simple to do so. I really don't find any reason not to block them.
At least until a better credit system is in place.
And I'm astonished that you are against blocking the cheating clients!
____________
Dragons can fly, because they don't fit into pirate ships!

zombie67 [MM]Project donor
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 30 Nov 06
Posts: 155
ID: 4065
Credit: 702,319,485
RAC: 39,933
321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,761,926)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,106,758)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,176,695)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,106,000)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,372,353)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,649,343)SoB LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,415,692)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,026,750)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,005,424)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,129,840)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,473,519)321 Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,691,112)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,297,856)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,711,622)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (360,132,182)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,707,274)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,316,578)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,289,379)GFN Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (199,347,844)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (15,567,600)
Message 10340 - Posted: 23 Aug 2008 | 19:57:39 UTC

I think it's wasted effort banning by version number. It will block some valid clients, and still allow messing with benchmarks. I think effort would be better used coming up with a real solution. Simple as that.
____________
Reno, NV

Profile KalessinProject donor
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 29 Apr 07
Posts: 15
ID: 7610
Credit: 796,105
RAC: 0
321 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (19,020)PPS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (19,195)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (25,184)Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (35,767)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (110,188)PPS Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (356,347)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (188,540)AP 26/27 Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (37,768)
Message 10341 - Posted: 23 Aug 2008 | 20:08:58 UTC - in response to Message 10340.

I think it's wasted effort banning by version number. It will block some valid clients, and still allow messing with benchmarks. I think effort would be better used coming up with a real solution. Simple as that.


Ok that might be a reason, only did I think that wasting 10 Minutes time and probably reducing the cheaters by 50% (assumed) and by the way showing that cheaters were not welcome would be a good time/result ratio.
But I don't really know if ten minutes was an accurate estimate. Just guessed that from how the procedure was described.
____________
Dragons can fly, because they don't fit into pirate ships!

FrankHagenProject donor
Send message
Joined: 10 Apr 08
Posts: 344
ID: 21175
Credit: 45,434,479
RAC: 0
321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (349,355)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (107,473)ESP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (174,802)PPS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,165,293)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (219,459)SR5 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (179,417)SGS LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (511,700)TRP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (230,915)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (223,001)321 Sieve Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,111,877)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (438,658)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (23,468)PPS Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,002,595)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,670,568)TRP Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (12,700,165)AP 26/27 Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,297,154)GFN Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,030,996)
Message 10342 - Posted: 23 Aug 2008 | 20:19:55 UTC - in response to Message 10337.

I'm simply not going to look at the benchmark values provided by the client when assigning the credit, I'm going to look at a BOINC-wide median benchmark value for that specific host type.


you know that this would hit every host which is running overclocked?

and there are lots of hosts out there which are running slightly ;) over stock rate reported by their client.

millions of tropical fish could be in danger..


frank.

Astro
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 11 Feb 06
Posts: 84
ID: 2390
Credit: 17,557,799
RAC: 0
321 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (506,595)Cullen LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (52,363)PPS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,795,295)PSP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (53,084)SoB LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (243,246)SGS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (19,648)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (107,664)321 Sieve Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (945,292)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,545,959)PPS Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,376,355)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,501,080)TRP Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (884,581)AP 26/27 Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,507,223)
Message 10343 - Posted: 23 Aug 2008 | 20:41:48 UTC
Last modified: 23 Aug 2008 | 20:50:38 UTC

Actually, a year or two ago, I received non personal data for all hosts attached to a project of this size to do an analysis to see if an "median benchmark" could be established for all known hosts. Establishing a "median benchmark" and a filter to flag hosts which deviated more than 50% (to allow for serious overclockers) would be effective, as most "cheating" boinc clients increased benchmarks significantly more than that. The trouble come in when you realize just how many variations of hosts and OSes are really out there. Some only had ONE listing, meaning the median would be itself. If that one cheated, then noone would know. Also, there's nothing to stop someone from changing the data that Boinc extracts. Then someone could label his Celeron 500 as a much higher scoring machine. Heck, they could probably get it to report their puter as "the good ship lollypop".

I scrapped the idea when I realized just how much of this would require LOTS of man hours for EACH project. At that point it seemed less likely to be adopted. If Rytis can do it, I say let him.
I could/might reboot my machines to windows after the challenge and look it up.

[edit] thinking back, I did this before Boinc started using MSVC 2005. When Boinc switched from MSVC2003 to 2005, it resulted in markedly higher benchmarks for everyone, so my data would reflect hosts using MSVC2003.

[2nd edit] banning one or two versions of those "cheating" clients would only be effective on those numbered clients. There are now nearly a dozen freely available ones, and nothing to stop anyone with a compiler from coming up with his/her own numbers, or even just naming it the same as an official version and slipping past this kind of snare.

Profile KalessinProject donor
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 29 Apr 07
Posts: 15
ID: 7610
Credit: 796,105
RAC: 0
321 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (19,020)PPS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (19,195)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (25,184)Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (35,767)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (110,188)PPS Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (356,347)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (188,540)AP 26/27 Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (37,768)
Message 10344 - Posted: 23 Aug 2008 | 22:24:12 UTC - in response to Message 10343.

banning one or two versions of those "cheating" clients would only be effective on those numbered clients. There are now nearly a dozen freely available ones, and nothing to stop anyone with a compiler from coming up with his/her own numbers, or even just naming it the same as an official version and slipping past this kind of snare.


My experience is, that most client-cheaters at the moment do use the 6.1.0 client. (only some still use 5.5.0 or 5.9.0; of about a dozen versions I don't know, but they might certainly float through the boinc world) And yes I do know, that it is easy for those who did before, to compile a new cheater version with a standard version number.
And I know how easy it is to fake the values of the benchmark.

And still:
staying quiet regarding the cheater clients might contribute to make the cheaters think its ok to do so. Quite some of them still try to convince others that they are not cheating, but only raising the credits to their deserved height. Maybe one or two of them would recognize that noone else thinks so!

I think that projects as well as teams should clearly state that they strongly discourage any cheating.

Having the admins ban the most common cheater-clients and having a post that cheating clients are not welcome at a project would perhaps scare of a (small) part of the cheaters. (Wouldn't that be a success?) Or leave one or two cheaters without cheating tools for a while (Wouldn't that also be a success?)

And as far as I understood the disabling of clients; its I think about 20 lines of code, most of which could be copy/pasted.

jordans how to

There are reasons, why this might not be the most effective tool against cheaters. (Yes) but there is no reason not to do it.
It is something which could be done in about ten minutes. The amount of time for the cheaters would be a lot more to counteract. It would imply a statement against cheating and perhaps it will reduce cheating (a little bit for a while)

I really would hope that all projects without fixed credits would use the disabling function- besides all other effective means, we will find.


____________
Dragons can fly, because they don't fit into pirate ships!

Astro
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 11 Feb 06
Posts: 84
ID: 2390
Credit: 17,557,799
RAC: 0
321 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (506,595)Cullen LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (52,363)PPS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,795,295)PSP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (53,084)SoB LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (243,246)SGS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (19,648)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (107,664)321 Sieve Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (945,292)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,545,959)PPS Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,376,355)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,501,080)TRP Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (884,581)AP 26/27 Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,507,223)
Message 10346 - Posted: 23 Aug 2008 | 23:17:17 UTC
Last modified: 23 Aug 2008 | 23:47:06 UTC

I've looked up the old data. It was extracted on Dec 5th 2006. It contains 4955 active(having contacted the server in the last 7 days) hosts from that project(that number started at much higher until I pared out as many duplicates as I could fairly judge to be duplicates). It contains 659 distinctly different "Model" and "OS" (Win or Linux) combinations. 265 of them are "Unique" entries. Meaning they're ONE of a kind and thus a Median, Mean, or Avg is futile. An addition 114 have only ONE like it and I suspect some of these are really unique but are showing up as to due to the detach/reattach process.

THe establishment of a "mean" would be effective at finding the "high claimers" from many models though which are in frequent use. Is that of any use? Wouldn't there still be a few who "modified" something or other to "game" the system. Is it worth the effort of the project admins/scientist/engineers???

here's a Sample from the P4 3.40 Ghz using Windows.
The Average Claimed credit/hour is 7.49, the median 6.83, there were 58 hosts, the High claim/hour was 12.17, and the lowest claim was 2.65

Scott BrownProject donor
Volunteer moderator
Project administrator
Volunteer tester
Project scientist
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 17 Oct 05
Posts: 1913
ID: 1178
Credit: 6,307,780,443
RAC: 1,841,448
Discovered the World's First base 116 Generalized Cullen prime!!!Discovered 13 mega primesEliminated 7 conjecture "k"sDiscovered 1 Sophie Germain pairDiscovered 1 Fermat divisor2012 Tour de Primes highest prime count2012 Tour de Primes most Mountain Stage primes2015 Tour de Primes highest prime count2016 Tour de Primes highest prime countFound 23 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2018 Tour de Primes Mountain Stage2019 Tour de Primes highest prime countFound 22 primes in the 2019 Tour de Primes321 LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (100,829,118)Cullen LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (103,870,990)ESP LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (124,520,838)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (108,461,080)PPS LLR Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (343,575,390)PSP LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (108,003,110)SoB LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (135,747,083)SR5 LLR Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (201,220,450)SGS LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (160,942,951)TPS LLR (retired) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (235,439)TRP LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (121,443,822)Woodall LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (101,447,725)321 Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (203,510,966)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (83,794,448)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (285,139,652)PPS Sieve Double Ruby: Earned 2,000,000,000 credits (2,107,850,099)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (203,523,358)TRP Sieve (suspended) Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (201,489,157)AP 26/27 Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (119,562,131)GFN Double Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000,000 credits (1,233,547,151)PSA Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (259,058,048)
Message 10347 - Posted: 23 Aug 2008 | 23:41:41 UTC - in response to Message 10329.


99,9%???

you do know what you are talking about?


I assume that I do, but I suppose that you could ask the dozen or so PhD students from my statistics class last spring to verify that.



that bench in boinc-clients is such a lousy thing and you expect 99,9% accuracy?

this would end up in endless resends.

if you came up with 95%, it was worth a thought, but this one earns you the "joke of the thread" award - until now.. :(

frank.


99.9% is roughly equal to +/- 4 standard deviations of a normal distribution. 99% about 3 s.d. and 95% about 2 s.d. Since legitimate overclocks might venture into 2 or 3 standard deviations above the mean benchmark, I proposed a more conservative (and actually broader) confidence bound, but either 99% or 95% could be justified. However, the 95% bound would result in far more resends than the 99.9% bound (i.e., only .1% of hosts would be identified that required resends rather than 5%). Your logic here is backwards.

So, before you call someone's idea a "joke" or "kindergarten", perhaps you would do us all a favor and pick up an introductory statistics book first.




____________
141941*2^4299438-1 is prime!


Scott BrownProject donor
Volunteer moderator
Project administrator
Volunteer tester
Project scientist
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 17 Oct 05
Posts: 1913
ID: 1178
Credit: 6,307,780,443
RAC: 1,841,448
Discovered the World's First base 116 Generalized Cullen prime!!!Discovered 13 mega primesEliminated 7 conjecture "k"sDiscovered 1 Sophie Germain pairDiscovered 1 Fermat divisor2012 Tour de Primes highest prime count2012 Tour de Primes most Mountain Stage primes2015 Tour de Primes highest prime count2016 Tour de Primes highest prime countFound 23 primes in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 1 mega prime in the 2018 Tour de PrimesFound 2 primes in the 2018 Tour de Primes Mountain Stage2019 Tour de Primes highest prime countFound 22 primes in the 2019 Tour de Primes321 LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (100,829,118)Cullen LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (103,870,990)ESP LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (124,520,838)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (108,461,080)PPS LLR Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (343,575,390)PSP LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (108,003,110)SoB LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (135,747,083)SR5 LLR Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (201,220,450)SGS LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (160,942,951)TPS LLR (retired) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (235,439)TRP LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (121,443,822)Woodall LLR Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (101,447,725)321 Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (203,510,966)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (83,794,448)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (285,139,652)PPS Sieve Double Ruby: Earned 2,000,000,000 credits (2,107,850,099)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (203,523,358)TRP Sieve (suspended) Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (201,489,157)AP 26/27 Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (119,562,131)GFN Double Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000,000 credits (1,233,547,151)PSA Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (259,058,048)
Message 10348 - Posted: 23 Aug 2008 | 23:47:59 UTC - in response to Message 10330.


I'd say 95% is still too much. But yes, it would probably be a pretty good system; I'll gather some statistics to see if it is doable.

[edit] I checked to see how many different CPU types are crunching for PrimeGrid. My idea was that if there is more than a single host of a specific CPU type, I could get a median of the benchmark values and use them for credit. Well, I found out there are 6381 (!) different CPU model strings, over 2500 are listed only once, so there is no way to exclude invalid benchmarks from them... BOINC doesn't really do a good job identifying CPUs :)

[edit2] I think we might team up with BOINCstats to gather the data.


Pulling from the larger BOINCstats database is defintely a good idea, as is using the more stable median value in response to possible extreme values. However, you might be able to group similar CPU/OS combinations together using the broader 99% or 99.9% intervals effectively (i.e., a 2.4Ghz P4 should have very similar benchmarks to a 2.53Ghz or 2.6Ghz, especially if similar OS, bus speed, etc. are maintained, also).

____________
141941*2^4299438-1 is prime!


Astro
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 11 Feb 06
Posts: 84
ID: 2390
Credit: 17,557,799
RAC: 0
321 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (506,595)Cullen LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (52,363)PPS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,795,295)PSP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (53,084)SoB LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (243,246)SGS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (19,648)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (107,664)321 Sieve Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (945,292)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,545,959)PPS Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,376,355)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,501,080)TRP Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (884,581)AP 26/27 Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,507,223)
Message 10349 - Posted: 23 Aug 2008 | 23:56:19 UTC
Last modified: 23 Aug 2008 | 23:56:36 UTC

Here's the P4 3.0 Ghz, There's 356 samples, The Avg claim/hour is 6.26, the median 6.00, the High claim/hr 10.54 and the lowest 1.58

Astro
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 11 Feb 06
Posts: 84
ID: 2390
Credit: 17,557,799
RAC: 0
321 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (506,595)Cullen LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (52,363)PPS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,795,295)PSP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (53,084)SoB LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (243,246)SGS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (19,648)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (107,664)321 Sieve Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (945,292)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,545,959)PPS Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,376,355)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,501,080)TRP Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (884,581)AP 26/27 Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,507,223)
Message 10350 - Posted: 24 Aug 2008 | 0:00:20 UTC
Last modified: 24 Aug 2008 | 0:25:00 UTC

EEEK, it's been so LONG since I've done this. I forgot, the last two charts have had all 5.5.0 hosts removed for some long forgotten reason. Back to the databases to show them with 5.5.0.

Another eek. For me to show those charts, I'd have to rework from the original data. Meaning many hours that I'm not willing to put in, so I just looked up the high/low claim for those 5.5.0 host and P4 3.0 ghz and windows. The low was 13.42 credit/hour, the high was 17.03. If Plotted, in the chart below, you can see how glaringly high it would be, and that a filter set to 50% higher than median would have filtered them out. Leaving the overclockers to do their best...undetered.

Astro
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 11 Feb 06
Posts: 84
ID: 2390
Credit: 17,557,799
RAC: 0
321 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (506,595)Cullen LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (52,363)PPS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,795,295)PSP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (53,084)SoB LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (243,246)SGS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (19,648)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (107,664)321 Sieve Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (945,292)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,545,959)PPS Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,376,355)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,501,080)TRP Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (884,581)AP 26/27 Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,507,223)
Message 10351 - Posted: 24 Aug 2008 | 1:51:53 UTC
Last modified: 24 Aug 2008 | 1:53:35 UTC

I've just spent all the time from my last post to now getting this chart ready for just the P4 3.0Ghz computers using Windows. The total hosts now is 375.

The X axis shows Boinc Verions, but is sorted by Claimed credit/hour ascending. (like the earlier ones).



As you all can see, there is a distinct difference between claims of normal hosts, a slight jump for what I'm assuming is Overclocking, and then the "third party" boinc clients.

Also, there were only 19 5.5.0 clients out of 375 hosts, so not a high percentage of users were using it.

Similar results to this probably exist with newer data.

Hope this helps Rytis.

Profile KalessinProject donor
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 29 Apr 07
Posts: 15
ID: 7610
Credit: 796,105
RAC: 0
321 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (19,020)PPS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (19,195)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (25,184)Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (35,767)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (110,188)PPS Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (356,347)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (188,540)AP 26/27 Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (37,768)
Message 10358 - Posted: 24 Aug 2008 | 6:59:01 UTC - in response to Message 10351.

I've just spent all the time from my last post to now getting this chart ready for just the P4 3.0Ghz computers using Windows.


Great work Astro.
And another extra shudder, seeing again how unfair these cheaters are.
This is an increase in the claiming of about 100%;
voracious gang of...

____________
Dragons can fly, because they don't fit into pirate ships!

zombie67 [MM]Project donor
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 30 Nov 06
Posts: 155
ID: 4065
Credit: 702,319,485
RAC: 39,933
321 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,761,926)Cullen LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,106,758)ESP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,176,695)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,106,000)PPS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,372,353)PSP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,649,343)SoB LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,415,692)SR5 LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,026,750)SGS LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,005,424)TRP LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,129,840)Woodall LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,473,519)321 Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,691,112)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,297,856)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,711,622)PPS Sieve Double Silver: Earned 200,000,000 credits (360,132,182)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (11,707,274)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,316,578)AP 26/27 Sapphire: Earned 20,000,000 credits (20,289,379)GFN Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (199,347,844)PSA Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (15,567,600)
Message 10359 - Posted: 24 Aug 2008 | 7:05:02 UTC - in response to Message 10351.

I've just spent all the time from my last post to now getting this chart ready for just the P4 3.0Ghz computers using Windows. [...]


Of course, that assumes that all those machines reported truthfully what kind of CPU they had. The CPU type can also be faked.
____________
Reno, NV

Profile [SG]Puzzle-PeterProject donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 14 Jun 08
Posts: 374
ID: 24128
Credit: 92,652,187
RAC: 0
Discovered the World's First base 68 Generalized Cullen prime!!!Eliminated 4 conjecture "k"s321 LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (517,694)Cullen LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (22,649)PPS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,716,757)PSP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,255,162)SoB LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,529,355)SGS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (79,385)TRP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (42,673)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (360,820)321 Sieve Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (21,641)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,449,647)PPS Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,110,585)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (75,714)TRP Sieve (suspended) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (54,880)AP 26/27 Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (42,894)PSA Emerald: Earned 50,000,000 credits (78,365,420)
Message 10361 - Posted: 24 Aug 2008 | 8:37:22 UTC - in response to Message 10333.
Last modified: 24 Aug 2008 | 8:38:36 UTC

just use the challenge formula to grant llr credit. that is multiplying it with a constant factor to match current credits per test.


Sounds sensible and easy. The formula exists already, so by scaling it down appropiately the credits would be independent from benchmarks, running time and whatnot, depending only on the size of the task.

Profile VatoProject donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 2 Feb 08
Posts: 709
ID: 18447
Credit: 79,965,657
RAC: 68,772
321 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,851,976)Cullen LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,049,559)ESP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,562,829)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,001,883)PPS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,721,709)PSP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,535,545)SoB LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,023,559)SR5 LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,298,384)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,153,574)TPS LLR (retired) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (103,523)TRP LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,457,903)Woodall LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,048,906)321 Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,764,261)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,119,699)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (10,278,995)PPS Sieve Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (7,407,705)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (4,080,177)TRP Sieve (suspended) Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,221,054)AP 26/27 Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,025,257)GFN Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,020,967)PSA Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (6,237,059)
Message 10380 - Posted: 24 Aug 2008 | 12:20:17 UTC

Not quite - you need to factor in FFT size, as this has quite an impact when you cross a boundary, and intel/amd cpus don't cross it at the same value of n. If you can include this with the above, I think you'd have a fair system. The current challenge nicely avoided this by completing the range prior to the change in FFT size shortly before the challenge began.

____________

Profile KalessinProject donor
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 29 Apr 07
Posts: 15
ID: 7610
Credit: 796,105
RAC: 0
321 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (19,020)PPS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (19,195)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (25,184)Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (35,767)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (110,188)PPS Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (356,347)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (188,540)AP 26/27 Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (37,768)
Message 10436 - Posted: 27 Aug 2008 | 8:46:28 UTC

And how are things going? Have you found a favorite strategy for the future?

does anyone has by the way a statistics that shows how much % of work is delivered by the clients 6.1.0, 5.5.0, and 5.9.0?

and very off-topic @ rytis: Is chess still alive? Were you not somehow the one who was sometimes kicking the server?
____________
Dragons can fly, because they don't fit into pirate ships!

Rytis
Volunteer moderator
Project administrator
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 22 Jun 05
Posts: 2639
ID: 1
Credit: 20,845,900
RAC: 5,668
321 LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (104,475)Cullen LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (291,372)ESP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (18,156)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (15,259)PPS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (107,362)PSP LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (116,517)SoB LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (151,232)SR5 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (14,071)SGS LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (100,082)TPS LLR (retired) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (111,607)TRP LLR Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (15,569,095)Woodall LLR Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (101,463)321 Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (201,501)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (214,653)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (14,200)PPS Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (282,191)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (200,232)TRP Sieve (suspended) Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,453,872)AP 26/27 Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (473,058)GFN Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (163,887)PSA Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (97,541)
Message 10442 - Posted: 27 Aug 2008 | 14:14:59 UTC - in response to Message 10436.

And how are things going? Have you found a favorite strategy for the future?

We are going to try median BOINC-wide benchmark values for specific kind of CPU type, but it's up to Willy from BOINCstats to make a table (it will probably happen this weekend).

does anyone has by the way a statistics that shows how much % of work is delivered by the clients 6.1.0, 5.5.0, and 5.9.0?

Gathering this kind of statistics is problematic, because the client version isn't stored as a separate entry in the database. So, to answer your question, at least I don't have the data.

and very off-topic @ rytis: Is chess still alive? Were you not somehow the one who was sometimes kicking the server?

I've heard that it's going to be resurrected next month, but don't quote me on this. I was just a technical helper there, it's up to Joerg to push some new games in.
____________

Profile ChertseyAlProject donor
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 7 Apr 07
Posts: 23
ID: 7054
Credit: 2,949,803
RAC: 0
321 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (14,057)Cullen LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (13,374)PPS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (48,998)SR5 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (25,163)SGS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (44,046)TRP LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (47,530)321 Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (112,541)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (425,188)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (14,202)PPS Sieve Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,035,170)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (965,817)TRP Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (160,123)AP 26/27 Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (30,191)GFN Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (12,963)
Message 10449 - Posted: 27 Aug 2008 | 18:31:37 UTC - in response to Message 10442.

We are going to try median BOINC-wide benchmark values for specific kind of CPU type


Ah, another artificial sticking plaster stuck over an artificial wound.

but it's up to Willy from BOINCstats to make a table (it will probably happen this weekend).


Crikey! Putting PG in the firing-line as bad enough, but Willy becoming a Krazy Kredit Kop too? Madness.

Al.

Profile Blurf
Send message
Joined: 11 Mar 07
Posts: 155
ID: 6349
Credit: 180,119,544
RAC: 22
321 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,294,823)Cullen LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,112,563)ESP LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,182,696)Generalized Cullen/Woodall LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (607,415)PPS LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,705,178)SoB LLR Turquoise: Earned 5,000,000 credits (5,000,863)SR5 LLR Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,004,756)SGS LLR Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,027,182)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (91,882)TRP LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (500,474)Woodall LLR Gold: Earned 500,000 credits (604,446)321 Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,525,881)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (131,607)Generalized Cullen/Woodall Sieve Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (3,782,364)PPS Sieve Double Bronze: Earned 100,000,000 credits (139,942,611)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,007,573)TRP Sieve (suspended) Amethyst: Earned 1,000,000 credits (1,480,387)AP 26/27 Ruby: Earned 2,000,000 credits (2,708,810)GFN Jade: Earned 10,000,000 credits (13,402,257)
Message 10451 - Posted: 27 Aug 2008 | 21:58:43 UTC - in response to Message 10436.

and very off-topic @ rytis: Is chess still alive? Were you not somehow the one who was sometimes kicking the server?


Quick off-topic note: I'm working with Joerg on Chess960. Hoping it'll be back up in September.

Profile KalessinProject donor
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 29 Apr 07
Posts: 15
ID: 7610
Credit: 796,105
RAC: 0
321 LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (19,020)PPS LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (19,195)TPS LLR (retired) Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (25,184)Woodall LLR Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (35,767)Cullen/Woodall Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (110,188)PPS Sieve Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (356,347)Sierpinski (ESP/PSP/SoB) Sieve (suspended) Silver: Earned 100,000 credits (188,540)AP 26/27 Bronze: Earned 10,000 credits (37,768)
Message 10453 - Posted: 27 Aug 2008 | 22:15:03 UTC - in response to Message 10451.

and very off-topic @ rytis: Is chess still alive? Were you not somehow the one who was sometimes kicking the server?


Quick off-topic note: I'm working with Joerg on Chess960. Hoping it'll be back up in September.


Thats great news good luck to you and Jörg!
____________
Dragons can fly, because they don't fit into pirate ships!

Message boards : Number crunching : BOINC crediting and benchmarking

[Return to PrimeGrid main page]
DNS Powered by DNSEXIT.COM
Copyright © 2005 - 2019 Rytis Slatkevičius (contact) and PrimeGrid community. Server load 1.00, 1.14, 1.30
Generated 24 Aug 2019 | 22:32:41 UTC