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streamVolunteer moderator
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I've just created a new project, "PRST testing" to test new prime searching program - PRST.
PRST is a new prime testing program, written from scratch by Pavel Atnashev, author of LLR2. This is still a work in progress, but it's quite stable and basic types of tests are already implemented. The thing most important to us is that PRST can test factorial and primorial primes with fast double-check and Gerbicz-Li error detection.
As an essential step to move our factorial and primorial searches to Boinc, we must test new program and all brand new server scripts in real-life conditions. On the first phase, PrimeGrid PrpNet factorial and primorial work will be double-checked.
The testing will be run on my own "Private GFN Server". It's not on PrimeGrid yet. If you're already registered on my server, just go to preferences and select new application.
If you're not registered yet, you must go to the web page of my server http://boincvm.proxyma.ru:30080/test4vm/ and create an account there. The invitation code is PrimeGrid. Automatic registration from Boinc client probably will not work because, as far as I remember, it was not possible to specify invitation code during built-in registration. After registration, you can attach your Boinc client to new project using URL above.
The program is similar to LLR(2) and is CPU-only. Applications are available for Windows64 and Linux64 platforms.
Multithreading is recommended (currently 3 or 4 cores per task for most desktop CPUs, depending on CPU total number of cores) and supported using app_config.xml. See this post for details. |
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Just downloaded a batch of tests single core estimate 23 minutes on a 5900x. Does this need a variety of hardware? Should I switch up computers or is the first batch just DC of PSA projects not matter as much? Also if we do get a mismatched factorial DC will you be the 3rd party or does it create a 3rd wu? |
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Seeing all failed tasks ... across my various Windows hosts
Some with error 255 (0xff) Unknown error number
Others with error -1073741795 (0xffffffffc000001d) Unknown error number
ALL crash/fail within a few seconds of starting up.
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Just downloaded a batch of tests single core estimate 23 minutes on a 5900x. Does this need a variety of hardware? Should I switch up computers or is the first batch just DC of PSA projects not matter as much? Also if we do get a mismatched factorial DC will you be the 3rd party or does it create a 3rd wu?
The program uses the same GWnum library as LLR2, so the performance is similar. But we'd appreciate testing on unreliable/overheating hardware, frequent starts/stops to see how PRST handles situations and faults.
All tasks for the foreseeable future are DCs of the old factorial/primorial work. As with all DCing on Private GFN Server, in case of residue mismatch the fast-DC system is activated and the new residue is proven by the certificate. |
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streamVolunteer moderator
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Just downloaded a batch of tests single core estimate 23 minutes on a 5900x. Does this need a variety of hardware? Should I switch up computers or is the first batch just DC of PSA projects not matter as much?
You can test in any style according to you personal preferences / goals. We need to check how application behaves in real life on a variety of different computers, where users are performing usual daily tasks (pausing / aborting applications, rebooting computer, installing Windows updates and so on), and how server handles data returned by application in these cases. Just run it as long as you want to, and report to forum or Discord if you've noticed something unusual.
Also if we do get a mismatched factorial DC will you be the 3rd party or does it create a 3rd wu?
"fast double check" system will be activated to prove that our task was correct and PrpNet task was wrong. It will create new short "certificate" tasks and send it to somebody. There are some threads/posts on forum which explains how fast DC works in LLR2 (PRST uses same algorithm), so I'll not repeat it here.
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Also, PRST is a native BOINC application, no wrapper is used. It's a new feature, needs to be tested thoroughly. |
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streamVolunteer moderator
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Seeing all failed tasks ... across my various Windows hosts
Some with error 255 (0xff) Unknown error number
Others with error -1073741795 (0xffffffffc000001d) Unknown error number
ALL crash/fail within a few seconds of starting up.
I've installed new Windows build, hopefully it'll fix the program.
Look like previous version was erroneously built with AVX instructions, which are not supported by your CPU.
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Hello!
Thank You Stream and Pavel for making a new project available!
I've been running the test units since they appeared yesterday evening, about 100, mostly version 1.01 without any issues.
They all "survived" latest windows update that was installed during the night.
After restarts this morning, first closing Boinc nicely, still no errors or invalids occurred!
One of my pcs (id 1150) got special "horror" treatment!
First installing windows update and then restarting without closing Boinc and no stopping of running work units before shutting down, Boinc and all running units survived!
And last test was updating Intel Graphics with Boinc running. After install finished the on/off switch was used to restart everything, no errors !
If You ask me this seems rock safe!
Then a few questions:
How many units to Double Check?
You seem to start with factorial primes easier to test, primorial tests to follow?
I guess it is not DC until TdP starts in February?
They are both megaprimes if we start from where PRPNet are today?
Thanks again and regards,
Hans Sveen
Oslo
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 Michael Goetz Volunteer moderator
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Also, PRST is a native BOINC application, no wrapper is used. It's a new feature, needs to be tested thoroughly.
Nice!
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streamVolunteer moderator
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Then a few questions:
How many units to Double Check?
There are 176500 factorial tests from N=50K to N=300K (current PrpNet leading edge). Everything below 50M was tested manually. It's quite significant amount of work because factorials are growing very fast, both FFT size and runtime will be greatly increased soon. We jumped from 50M to 100M in 24 hours or so, but it'll slow down soon.
You seem to start with factorial primes easier to test, primorial tests to follow?
I just didn't preprocessed primorials yet. As soon as data will be ready, I'll load primorials as well. Probably task will be sorted by FFT size, so both types of primes will be tested at same time and tasks will have similar runtime.
I guess it is not DC until TdP starts in February?
I'm sorry but I didn't understood the question fully. Factorials and primorials (if any missing primes will be found) will not acceptable for 2023 TdP because this test project is running on other server. The goal is to run full-scale Boinc search on PrimeGrid, but it definitely will not happen before February.
They are both megaprimes if we start from where PRPNet are today?
Yes, both projects will be mega-primes.
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Great news!
I was trying to break it from command line with leading edge candidate.
Run a candidate for a short while, Ctrl+C.
Restarted: 103145!-1 restarting at 3.1%.
That's before 1/8 proof stage, let's say good checkpointing.
Run up to 22.7% stage, Ctrl+C.
Now it restarted from 12.5%, ie. first proof stage.
It is expected behaviour?
What is the best way to test MT?
I already know it doesn't scale great (-t 4 or -t 16) from command line.
AFAIK, there is no way to set web preferences for that.
app_config.xml?
Plan class?
Any template for that?
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Hi !
Thanks for aswering my questions!
Sorry for not proofreading well, yes you did understand mine qustions right,
I guess it is not DC until TdP starts in February? should have been written:
I guess the DC is not finished until TdP starts in February?
Hans S.
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It is expected behaviour?
No, it's a bug. During the first break a file was written that shouldn't have been written. Happens in specific circumstances.
Thank you for the testing! |
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... I've installed new Windows build, hopefully it'll fix the program.
Look like previous version was erroneously built with AVX instructions, which are not supported by your CPU.
Thank you stream, new Version 1.02 working so far without crashing. |
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It's time to enable multithreading!
It was a surprise even for me, but FFT method used for factorial and primorials is not only slower that standard Proth / Riesel tests, but also consumes two times more cache memory!
The formula for factorials / primorials is:
Cache_usage = FFT_SIZE * 16
It means that standard desktop CPUs with 6MB or 8MB cache should switch to mulithreaded mode. For few days, two threads should be enough, than it'll better to use 4 threads when FFT size exceeds 256KB. I'll keep you informed when it happens.
Multithreading is available using app_config.xml. It's located in project directory - <boinc data directory>/projects/boincvm.proxyma.ru..../app_config.xml. It should be plain text file with following content:
<app_config>
<app_version>
<app_name>prst</app_name>
<cmdline>-t 2</cmdline>
<avg_ncpus>2</avg_ncpus>
</app_version>
</app_config>
If the file is already there with other setting, just add <app_version> block (without <app_config> tags). Change number of threads (2) to other value if necessary. Save the file and reload configuration files in Boinc client or restart the client.
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New version of application (1.03) is installed for both Windows and Linux. It should fix an issue with restart from less efficient (older) checkpoint.
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As candidates are growing (now 224K FFT), MT is going well into play and scales better.
Running 2x3 (2 tasks with -t 3) on Intel 9700K gives good performance.
Leading edge on PRPNet has 384K FFT so 6MB CPU cache is the edge.
Does not scale beyound 4 threads and it's not TDP or temp limit.
No overheating test there as I use to see with LLR2.
5950X works better in MT regard.
Largest known has 768K FFT hence CPU with 12MB CPU cache should be good but it's too much for i7 9700K to get is really busy.
Anyway, did a lot of Ctrl+C, changing number of threads and restarts, no complaning there.
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You can also try -spin <num_threads>, which enables spinwaits on all threads. Scales better, but consumes all CPU. Can be used only on dedicated crunchers. |
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Hmm, interesting.
For i7 9700K and 224 FFT, -t 4 - spin 2 looks like optimal combanation.
Gives best performace and not highest power comsunmption.
More threads is slightly slower and more power hungry.
Similar for FFT512K with different -t and -spin values.
Should -spin be smaller than number of threads as general rule?
Or is it architecture specific?
EDIT: AMD 5950X.
It rocks with -t 8 -spin 8
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Yes, spin can be less than <threads>, but I don't know why it can be beneficial. Usual values are either:
0 no spinwaiting;
1 only the main thread is spinwaiting for helper threads. When they're done, the main thread immediately continues with its operations while the helper threads go to sleep using OS calls;
<threads> all threads are spinwaiting. When the helper threads are done, they do not sleep but are waiting for the next job to do.
1 is default. |
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FFT has grown again. Now optimal mulithreading setup is 3 or 4 cores, depending on your CPU.
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This is exciting news, especially that multithreading is now possible. Looking forward to it going live, the last discovery for primorial + 1 has been 21 years ago...
Btw, there was quite some outside-Primegrid work on Factorials in the last year. Will PG doublecheck those ranges?
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1281979 * 2^485014 + 1 is prime ... no further hits up to: n = 5,700,000 |
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This is exciting news, especially that multithreading is now possible. Looking forward to it going live, the last discovery for primorial + 1 has been 21 years ago...
Btw, there was quite some outside-Primegrid work on Factorials in the last year. Will PG doublecheck those ranges?
I believe that that is being done as part of the PRST testing. On http://boincvm.proxyma.ru:30080/test4vm/ , under 'New application: "PRST testing"', it says"As a first step, we'll double-check PrimeGrid factorial and primorial PrpNet work, testing PRST itself and server-side scripts.
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Hi there!
I see a bunch of arithmetic errors almost in each WU. Is this ok or I have to check my hardware?
Arithmetic error, restarting at 2.6%.
Arithmetic error, restarting at 8.2%.
Arithmetic error, restarting at 23.3%.
Arithmetic error, restarting at 27.1%.
Arithmetic error, restarting at 28.1%.
Arithmetic error, restarting at 34.3%.
Arithmetic error, restarting at 45.7%.
Arithmetic error, restarting at 48.8%.
Arithmetic error, restarting at 64.6%.
Arithmetic error, restarting at 69.7%.
Arithmetic error, restarting at 70.2%.
Arithmetic error, restarting at 76.5%.
Arithmetic error, restarting at 81.2%.
Arithmetic error, restarting at 85.3%.
Arithmetic error, restarting at 90.1%.
Arithmetic error, restarting at 92.1%.
Arithmetic error, restarting at 94.2%.
Arithmetic error, restarting at 94.2%. |
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Hi there!
I see a bunch of arithmetic errors almost in each WU. Is this ok or I have to check my hardware?
Arithmetic error, restarting at 2.6%.
Arithmetic error, restarting at 8.2%.
Arithmetic error, restarting at 23.3%.
Arithmetic error, restarting at 27.1%.
Arithmetic error, restarting at 28.1%.
Arithmetic error, restarting at 34.3%.
Arithmetic error, restarting at 45.7%.
Arithmetic error, restarting at 48.8%.
Arithmetic error, restarting at 64.6%.
Arithmetic error, restarting at 69.7%.
Arithmetic error, restarting at 70.2%.
Arithmetic error, restarting at 76.5%.
Arithmetic error, restarting at 81.2%.
Arithmetic error, restarting at 85.3%.
Arithmetic error, restarting at 90.1%.
Arithmetic error, restarting at 92.1%.
Arithmetic error, restarting at 94.2%.
Arithmetic error, restarting at 94.2%.
It ain't great but if you get a true result at the end - then it is satisfactory.
Check temperatures.
Don't overclock memory, or CPU, or GPU.
Make sure your PSU is up for it.
Memory is the most frustrating of things to diagnose. |
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We've approached FFT boundary, some roundoff errors are expected. PRST makes in-memory checkpoints every 20k iterations, so very little progress is lost after restart. Once all tasks switch to the next FFT, arithmetic errors will be gone (until next boundary). |
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These things are starting to get big.
I was running 4 core multi-thread per work unit and it was taking them 4 to 4 1/2 hours on a Ryzen 9 5900x and a Ryzen 9 7900x.
I have had to increase to 6 then 8 cores as my computer downloaded 119 of these things and times blew out to 9 hours so upped to 8 cores and times came back down to 4 hours 30 minutes to 4 hours 40 minutes.
I still have 87 to do with a deadline of 5 days from now, will see how I go.
Conan
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The numbers are larger than mega already. And not that many of them left, we're getting close to the leading edge. |
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Can you pin thread with Invitation code at https://www.primegrid.com/forum_forum.php?id=75 so others can find it more easily? |
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Less than 10k factorials of both types left!
https://boincvm.proxyma.ru:30443/test4vm/user_profile/llr2_status.html
The DC is almost over. |
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Less than 10k factorials of both types left!
https://boincvm.proxyma.ru:30443/test4vm/user_profile/llr2_status.html
The DC is almost over.
Aren't we going to double-check primorials?
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My DC mathematical side :)
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Aren't we going to double-check primorials?
Primorials added.
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My DC mathematical side :)
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Are they any faster than the PRSTs that take ages to crunch?
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Put this in app_config.xml
<app_config>
<app_version>
<app_name>prst</app_name>
<cmdline>-t 8</cmdline>
<avg_ncpus>8</avg_ncpus>
</app_version>
<app_version>
<app_name>llr2</app_name>
<cmdline>-t 8</cmdline>
<avg_ncpus>8</avg_ncpus>
</app_version>
</app_config> |
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I tried this on my Intel core i7-9750H 6c/12t notebook:
<app_config>
<app_version>
<app_name>prst</app_name>
<cmdline>-t 4 -spin 2</cmdline>
<avg_ncpus>6</avg_ncpus>
</app_version>
</app_config
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Are they any faster than the PRSTs that take ages to crunch?
They're same. Speed depends on FFT length. Both types of tests starts and ends on same FFT length. We'll start from small primorials, they'll be fast. Next, FFT will grow, and at the end of project they'll be as slow as current factorials are.
For best performance, multithreading must be enabled using app_config.xml - see link in top post.
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BOINC manager has this message:
Your app_config.xml file refers to an unknown application 'prst'. Known applications: None
So what are the known applications on the private server?
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Boinc client will not know what applications server has untill it receives first task for that application. |
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Michael GoetzVolunteer moderator
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BOINC manager has this message:
Your app_config.xml file refers to an unknown application 'prst'. Known applications: None
So what are the known applications on the private server?
A contender for the dumbest error message ever, since the proper action to take when you see this message is to ignore it while simultaneously giving you absolutely no useful information whatsoever.
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mikey
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BOINC manager has this message:
Your app_config.xml file refers to an unknown application 'prst'. Known applications: None
So what are the known applications on the private server?
The easy answer is to ask for a task and if the stuff you have listed is wrong it will give you the right options to chose from. ie if you ask for a Woo task and it doesn't have Woo tasks, which it doesn't, then it will give you a list of the correct tasks that it does have. |
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I get that message all the time when ever I do an update on my config file. I just ignore it because as it sends one of the files it says does not exist, part of the error message goes away.
It is just that in the project folder there is not an executable file for that app yet, as soon as you get one it fixes the message.
Conan
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Testing prst? Why,,? |
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tngSend message
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Testing prst? Why,,?
It's a new application for primorial and factorial prime testing. Hopefully it will allow those projects to be moved from PRPNet to BOINC.
AFAIK, the actual testing is done and the application is ready to go. We are currently doublechecking the primorial and factorial tests which were done on PRPNet.
No idea when or if primorail and factorial will start on BOINC. Maybe soon, maybe when the doublecheck is done, or maybe quite some time from now.Only the admins know (and they may not know anything definite yet).
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Kinda feeling sorry for "q", probably feeling left out 😁😛
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My lucky number 10590941048576+1 |
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No idea when or if primorail and factorial will start on BOINC. Maybe soon, maybe when the doublecheck is done, or maybe quite some time from now.Only the admins know (and they may not know anything definite yet).
Maybe they want to stop primorial (port 12008) and factorial (port 12002) on our PRPNet first. But of course, this moves the question to when they will do that. By now, the 30-day warning has "expired", so in principle PRPNet could close any day. /JeppeSN |
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still 57 days |
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still 57 days
We cannot know if they will go with the estimated days seen on http://prpnet.primegrid.com:12002/. They could just shut the PRPNet server down, and transfer unprocessed candidates. /JeppeSN |
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still 57 days
It's safe to ignore that number.
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My lucky number is 75898524288+1 |
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For best performance, multithreading must be enabled using app_config.xml - see link in top post.
Is there any chance that multithreading settings could be turned on in the project preferences?
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Reno, NV
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For best performance, multithreading must be enabled using app_config.xml - see link in top post.
Is there any chance that multithreading settings could be turned on in the project preferences?
on "Private GFN Server" this is not possible
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Why? Is something wrong with server configuration? |
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For best performance, multithreading must be enabled using app_config.xml - see link in top post.
Is there any chance that multithreading settings could be turned on in the project preferences?
on "Private GFN Server" this is not possible
Which is a pity as I don't think the users can use an app_config.xml on TSC instances.
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TSC? |
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TSC?
TSC == The Science Cloud
https://thescience.cloud/
TSC lets you run BOINC program/projects on a remote server for a small price per day/hour, etc.
Most popular BOINC projects already supported.
Support science
Scientific research often requires or benefits from computer simulations. Such simulations often require significant investment, such as supercomputer time purchase.
The Science Cloud allows you to pay for computer time that the scientists specifically need.
Buy computer time for scientists
By signing up for The Science Cloud account you will be able to pay as much (or as little!) as you can to support your favorite research.
Top up your account using PayPal or money transfer in Euros or US Dollars, choose the projects to support, and buy computers for the scientists. Minimum topup amount is $10.00. It costs approximately $7.00 to run a single computer for a month, however, we bill by the second, so smaller contributions are welcome.
We will email you when the money on your account is about to run out, and you can choose to continue your support. We will also soon add an ability to automatically donate a chosen amount every month without additional interaction.
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mikey
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One of my Teammates is trying to signup for PRST has new account signups been turned off? |
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Registration link
https://boincvm.proxyma.ru:30443/test4vm/create_account_form.php
Tell teammate to use "PrimeGrid" invitation code |
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mikey
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Registration link
https://boincvm.proxyma.ru:30443/test4vm/create_account_form.php
Tell teammate to use "PrimeGrid" invitation code
It worked great thank you very much!!! |
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